Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Thrawn on May 08, 2004, 12:50:22 AM

Title: Bush changes mind on Isreal.
Post by: Thrawn on May 08, 2004, 12:50:22 AM
"Withdraw from held lands, Bush urges Israel
 

WASHINGTON -- U.S. President George W. Bush urged Israel yesterday to withdraw from territory captured in the 1967 Six-Day War and to turn the land over to the Palestinians for a state, responding to Arab and European complaints as Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon pledged to move forward with a virtually unchanged plan to abandon Gaza."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPPrint/LAC/20040507/ISRAEL07/TPInternational/

Cripes he's changing his mind every other day now on policy.



Thanks http://www.osirp.org
Title: Bush changes mind on Isreal.
Post by: GRUNHERZ on May 08, 2004, 12:59:38 AM
IIRC bush has been pretty consistent on the overall goal of creating an independant palestnian state...

So this is a poor kerry comparsion....
Title: Bush changes mind on Isreal.
Post by: Gyro/T69 on May 08, 2004, 12:59:50 AM
Quote
Cripes he's changing his mind every other day now on policy.


Warming us up for Kerry?
Title: Bush changes mind on Isreal.
Post by: strk on May 08, 2004, 01:02:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gyro/T69
Warming us up for Kerry?


flip: I support Sharon
flop: Israel must withdraw from the settlements

seriously though it was a good move imo.  I wont fault him for it - there are plenty of other bush flip flops out there
Title: Bush changes mind on Isreal.
Post by: NUKE on May 08, 2004, 01:02:43 AM
I LOVE the Israeli idea of withdrawing from all occupied land. They want to do this and they should. Then when the "Palestinians" continue to murder Israelis, the will have no excuse other than they want to whipe out Israel. At that point, Israel can officially delcare war on them and whipe them out.
Title: Bush changes mind on Isreal.
Post by: AKIron on May 08, 2004, 01:06:23 AM
No flip flop as I see it. Sharon wants to withdraw from the settlements. Bush supports him. Sharon is getting a lot of flak from Israeli hardliners for his push to withdraw. Sharon can't accomplish anything if he is removed from office.
Title: Bush changes mind on Isreal.
Post by: Gunslinger on May 08, 2004, 01:09:52 AM
FACT:  Sharon himself has supported withrawing from settlements and has been shot down from his own parlement/congress (whatever they have)

Truth:  Bush has allways supported Isreal and Peace in the region

Myth:  Peace will actually be achieved there and that the jews and the arabs will find common ground to acheive it due to cultural differences

Thats about as simplified as I can make it but I think that's pretty close to the mark.
Title: Bush changes mind on Isreal.
Post by: Thrawn on May 08, 2004, 01:13:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
IIRC bush has been pretty consistent on the overall goal of creating an independant palestnian state...


No, he support Sharon's plan of withdrawning from the Gaza Strip but maintaining settlements in the the West Bank.
Title: Bush changes mind on Isreal.
Post by: NUKE on May 08, 2004, 01:17:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
No, he support Sharon's plan of withdrawning from the Gaza Strip but maintaining settlements in the the West Bank.


But... Bush recently said he supported Sharon's plan of "unilateral" withdrawell......which I believe is pure genius.


After Israel pulls out, the "Palestinians" will continue to murder Israeli civilians....yet they will have no "cause" and will be further exposed as the murderous scum they are.
Title: Bush changes mind on Isreal.
Post by: Thrawn on May 08, 2004, 01:22:39 AM
Sharon's plan was never for unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and West bank.  Just the Gaza Strip.
Title: Bush changes mind on Isreal.
Post by: Gyro/T69 on May 08, 2004, 01:23:02 AM
Thanks good Strk, Hope your still around next year. If Kerry wins, I'll be sure to point out every screwed upped thing he does in spades. I'm sure you will enjoy it. Think I'll change my name to MG. And I’ll have fun fun fun Til my daddy takes the T-bird away.

What goes around comes around, I'll tell you why........
Title: Bush changes mind on Isreal.
Post by: Nash on May 08, 2004, 01:29:49 AM
OOh how ominous Gyro!

You obviously weren't here on this BBS during Clinton's reign, but it's just like now -  only in reverse. So if Kerry wins you're gonna say bad things about him? Scary stuff! Like we haven't seen it all before.

I'm kinda with Nuke on this... I too think that giving the Pals everything they want won't be enough.
Title: Bush changes mind on Isreal.
Post by: Gyro/T69 on May 08, 2004, 01:35:10 AM
Quote
You obviously weren't here on this BBS during Clinton's reign, but it's just like now - only in reverse. So if Kerry wins you're gonna say bad things about him? Scary stuff! Like we haven't seen it all before.


Crap, I missed out on all that fun :( Damn.....I've got a lot to get caught up on then. Bet it will be a breeze.
Title: Bush changes mind on Isreal.
Post by: Nash on May 08, 2004, 01:38:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gyro/T69
Bet it will be a breeze.


Absolutely! The best offence is a good defence... and visa versa. Second nature stuff. You'll be amazed at how naturally the transformation takes place.
Title: Bush changes mind on Isreal.
Post by: lada on May 08, 2004, 04:07:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
I LOVE the Israeli idea of withdrawing from all occupied land.  


problm with sutch israeli ideas is that they did never ever turn into reality

and now after they agree to do it, 2 days later they fight on Lybian boarder

ideas are polotics, facts are true
Title: Bush changes mind on Isreal.
Post by: Nilsen on May 08, 2004, 05:01:02 AM
I dont get it.... it seems its wrong when Kerry changes his mind, and its wrong when Bsuh does it.

I think changing your mind is a smart thing to do if you think you are wrong or situations change. Most people change their minds alot during a lifetime. Its those people that stick with one thing without reflecting on their opinoins and reacting to changes that are the truly dumb and dangerous once.
Title: Bush changes mind on Isreal.
Post by: Lazerus on May 08, 2004, 05:32:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
Its those people that stick with one thing without reflecting on their opinoins and reacting to changes that are the truly dumb and dangerous once.


We call them professional politicians over here. I personaly am tired of the same lip service offered every election cycle, by the same (philisophically, if not physically) candidate.

A surge of non-politically motivated candidates is what the general populace needs to become interested in the election process. As the temperature in hell has reached nowhere near freezing, we are stuck with the same old pandering fools that see every few years.

I assume it is the same 'across the pond', as our brothers say.
Title: Bush changes mind on Isreal.
Post by: strk on May 08, 2004, 07:56:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
FACT:  Sharon himself has supported withrawing from settlements and has been shot down from his own parlement/congress (whatever they have)

Truth:  Bush has allways supported Isreal and Peace in the region

Myth:  Peace will actually be achieved there and that the jews and the arabs will find common ground to acheive it due to cultural differences

Thats about as simplified as I can make it but I think that's pretty close to the mark.


fact - Sharon only recently relented on the settlement issue - just this week iirc.  His conservative hard line approach was to increase the settlements

fact - Bush made a diplomatic mistake by siding with Sharon.  The US needs to broker a peace, and not take sides - especially since we finance Israel.  Actually I guess it was more of an opinion.

The ME mess is basicaly at its heart a class and racial/cultural struggle.
Title: Bush changes mind on Isreal.
Post by: storch on May 08, 2004, 07:58:55 AM
What Nuke said. That would be the smart thing for the israelis to do. give the palestinians all that they ask for on the land issue.  As soon as they restart their homicide bombings. wipe them out. the mongrel world opinion be damned at that point.
Title: Bush changes mind on Isreal.
Post by: _Schadenfreude_ on May 08, 2004, 08:27:02 AM
Storch would have made an excellent little goose stepping Nazi....
Title: Bush changes mind on Isreal.
Post by: Holden McGroin on May 08, 2004, 09:11:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by strk
fact - Sharon only recently relented on the settlement issue - just this week iirc.  His conservative hard line approach was to increase the settlements.


Actual fact: his policy was to pull out of Gaza and dig in in the west bank, until he lost a Likud party policy vote.  When he lost the support of Likud, he modified the policy.

Quote

fact - Bush made a diplomatic mistake by siding with Sharon.  The US needs to broker a peace, and not take sides - especially since we finance Israel.  Actually I guess it was more of an opinion.[/B]


I think Bush was trying to support a compromise, getting Isreal out of Gaza would at least get a piece of the future Palestinian state in Palestinian hands.  The other side of the coin, the west bank, was too much to pay for it, and made the compromise a bad idea.

The US policy should be for total Israeli withdrawl from the West Bank and Gaza as soon as the Palestinians denounce terror, disband hamas, hezbolla et al, arrest the leaders, get rid of Arafat, and hold elections for new leadership. Start acting like a country instead of a mob of thugs.

Quote
The ME mess is basicaly at its heart a class and racial/cultural struggle. [/B]


I think the Arabs really wouldn't care much about Palestine if it weren't for the state controlled press of the region flaming it up all the time. They flame it to keep their population from being angry about their plight in their own countries.  It's a misdirection ploy by the various governments of the region to stay in power and keep raking in the benifits of power.