Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Mister Fork on May 08, 2004, 02:33:19 AM
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Starting the next setup (or perhpas later), to bring better historical realism to the Combat Theatre, the CT staff have agreed upon as a default setting, bomber 'external' views will be disabled.
It's not to take a shot at the lazer turrets on buffs, it's about bringing a more realistic flight model and design into the fold.
I thought I'd post it here first before we implement it for the next setup and to share with you some of our changes.
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I'm not a frequent visitor to the CT by any means, but I think that the outside view allowed bombers in the game is a good feature, representing the ability of a fully manned bomber to have visibility of the airspace around them.
That being said, I just wandered into the CT to take a look around as I do from time to time, and the planeset looked to be one of the most evenly matched that I have ever seen. I came here to applaud whoever is responsible for the current setup, and to say that I will be back, hopefully with squadies, to fly with all the guys (and gals) that make this arena what it is.
Looks good:aok
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Rgr. that Laz. I'm a buff fan myself. When I first came to AH, it's what I flew. Heck, I started one of the first buff squads here in AH back in 99.
We'd like to think that this isn't about limiting the buffs to defend themselves, it's to immerse them in realism of a combat theatre based on historical setups including establishing an arena that simulates the historical challenges pilots and people had for the time. We would also like to immerse the players in realism here as much as possible without drastically effecting how fair the arena is for all. External views is a 'nice to have' feature but not essential and is more geared towards the main arena.
Everyone, please feel free to comment.
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The only problem is following:
real bombers has air crew of 3-10 persons. When each gunner could continually watch over the air space.Once you fly alone or with gunner you can see only in 1(2) directions. You gunner should change its position all the time to see all the areas of the plane.
In WB there was a feacher of automatic gunners that also gave you information about cons (2 cons 5 o'clock d 1.5).
You have no such option in AH however you can go to the external mode and see much more then you see in internal.
So I think it is good reason to remain with external view untill we get option of otto gunners or/and more then 1 gunner that can join your plane.
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bad idea.
as artik mentioned, real bombers had crews...
wb had otto...
aw had ability to stuff multiple gunners on.
as much as i'm not a buff-type, i don't see how this would make it any more immersive.
you want immersive? limit buffs to up from the far rear bases, not front lines.
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I don't like the idea of dropping external veiws.
Personally, I only fly 1 or 2 Stuka runs per tour, just enough to make rank. I've been mostly bored by bombers in the past several of years. It's not going to effect me as a buff driver.
But, I hate to see them put at an even greater disadvantage, which would result in them being used less (and less big fat targets for me). I don't think that it is possible to make bombers very realistic simply because they were always flown by a team and we fly them with one person. Heck, we fly three of them by one person in AH just t make their use more attractive.
Bombers are, and will always be the gamyest part of AH. Leave realism up to the player, he can always decide.
Pro Choice!
eskimo
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I am glad to see no external view for buffs!
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What are external views?!? :D
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i say j enable external views for all planes :)
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I have to agree with Shane and Artik on this issue. Two people can not watch every angle and that is if there are two in the plane. This will not make it more realistic, instead there will be no one using bombers for anyone to shoot down.
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Originally posted by memnon
I have to agree with Shane and Artik on this issue. Two people can not watch every angle and that is if there are two in the plane. This will not make it more realistic, instead there will be no one using bombers for anyone to shoot down.
Good, no more ubber Ki-67s and Ju-88s...lol
I am sure some of you axis guys will feel the same about some allied bombers.
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im an axis flyer and i dont think they should turn external views off bombers unless ur ganna make i so more then 1 person can join ur plane "1 per gun" cuz if not ur ganna be in ur guns the whole time and u wont have time to bomb ur target, and if u do turn them off most ppl will stop flyin bombers i know i will cuz whats the use of flyin a bomber when u cant see any fighters coming, and how the guns r modeled in here ull be dead b4 u can get in the right gun.
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real bombers has air crew of 3-10 persons. When each gunner could continually watch over the air space.Once you fly alone or with gunner you can see only in 1(2) directions. You gunner should change its position all the time to see all the areas of the plane.
Leave the views please.
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Originally posted by TrueKillJG54
im an axis flyer and i dont think they should turn external views off bombers unless ur ganna make i so more then 1 person can join ur plane "1 per gun" cuz if not ur ganna be in ur guns the whole time and u wont have time to bomb ur target, and if u do turn them off most ppl will stop flyin bombers i know i will cuz whats the use of flyin a bomber when u cant see any fighters coming, and how the guns r modeled in here ull be dead b4 u can get in the right gun.
Here is the way I see it;
1.When you are shooting at a con (no gunner) all guns available from three ships (if you have formations or any left) are shooting, thus all "gunners" see enemy aircraft. Outside view is of no use while you are shooting!
2. When you are "bombing" you cannot shoot and bomb at the same time. External view is of no use during this time. If you have a gunner refer to item #1.
3. External view is for going to and returning from the target but have no absticles when viewing external. It doesnt take long to check for cons from each station. Most of the time radar already gives away cons position in relation to yours.
4. I never use external view anyway!
I can see why you want to keep it but I still vote to remove it.
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Well if ya gonna disable external views for a more realistic flight then you should disable the formations also.That way you'll need 3 pilotsand a full crew of gunners(HUMMM that makes what about 27 players for a 3 ship formation of B17's):confused:
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CurtissP-6EHawk.
When you are "bombing" you cannot shoot and bomb at the same time. External view is of no use during this time. If you have a gunner refer to item #1.
Well I like low level bombing where you cannot use the bomb site so I use the external view for this.:D
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If u want the CT more realistic then u should start with the ack mainly the fleet ack it is almost impassable to fly a plane though fllet ack and live iv seen many clips of planes fly though fleet ack and got hit with many ack and fly away with no real dammage. and i think they should put more dammage meter like part of ur rudder can be shot off not the hole thing. like parts of parts can come off. thats what they should do b4 u mess with exturnal views.
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If u want the CT more realistic then u should start with the ack mainly the fleet ack it is almost impassable to fly a plane though fllet ack and live iv seen many clips of planes fly though fleet ack and got hit with many ack and fly away with no real dammage. and i think they should put more dammage meter like part of ur rudder can be shot off not the hole thing. like parts of parts can come off. thats what they should do b4 u mess with exturnal views.
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Shows how ignorant I am. I didn't even know you could do this with fluffers.
Shame on you bomber people.
FWIW...who cares? If the groundpounders want to have some sort of advantage, let them have it.
- oldman
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Bad Idea in my opinion..... It will be suicide to try to calibrate and set-up a bomb run without someone watching for you (as it was in real life) I can just imagine the bombardier trying to set-up (and being the only guy in the plane) having to run all over the aircraft hoping to see something. Its also going to be very hard to turn any formations without losing your drones. I think alot of people want the buffs out of the CT.....so why not just leave em out of the list? I think if everyone wants a furball arena then no buffs would be perfect, and thats what will basically happen. now that would be realistic
PropNut
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Originally posted by PropNut
Bad Idea in my opinion..... It will be suicide to try to calibrate and set-up a bomb run without someone watching for you (as it was in real life) I can just imagine the bombardier trying to set-up (and being the only guy in the plane) having to run all over the aircraft hoping to see something. Its also going to be very hard to turn any formations without losing your drones. I think alot of people want the buffs out of the CT.....so why not just leave em out of the list? I think if everyone wants a furball arena then no buffs would be perfect, and thats what will basically happen. now that would be realistic
PropNut
Don't see how you can say that Prop.
I flew a B-26 with the 322nd BG (M) and the only time I ever used external views was to line up on the target. Could do the same thing from the nose but got a little better view with the outside view. Never lost any drones manuvering and that was with leading 6 other pilot's and their formations. I had no problem cycleing through the gun positions to watch for cons.
It's a crutch and very "arcadeish" IMHO no matter what excuse you make for it. Still it is up to the players to decide this.
Bombers should be in EVERY set up for those that want them and a natural part of operations. They were there in almost every theater. We have kind got into a rut of not putting out the "Heavies" (B-17, Lanc & even B-26) very often.
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Bombers arent under "constant attack". Usually its 1 fighter vrs 1 group of Bombers.
With no ext view you can still line up on target from the nose gun pos. Just page up, move forward and zoom... You can see for miles.
Bomber guys can just go to the gun positions to check for bad guys. 1 2 3 4 ... I mean how hard is that? You are in the gun position any way to return fire.
External view gives far better vision then from any gun positon and far better then even a 10 manned crewed bomber.
Folks made the same dire predictions when HT got rid of external views for gvs in the main. The reality is it wont make a bit of difference.
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The external view is a phenomenal advantage. the three ship's defensive armament coupled to one gunner gives the buff an extremely unbalancing advantage over fighters.
If you want to fly buffs you should need an additional crew member minimum and you should need fighter escort.
the losses experienced by buff crews in WWII were horrendous when the buffs were unescorted. this will cause the 490th type guys to rely on the 312th and plan missions. as opposed to *yawn* I'm bored says Lokee, grab three B26's pork a base where people are taking off to furball from, score 6 kills and land.
As it is now 1 man in a formation can take off and singlehandedly pork a field, fend off all comers and gleefully rtb. this should not be.
Disabling the external view will go a long way to providing a much more immersive experience for the rest of us.
All that plus I hate the %^$@!#* buffs. so take it with a grain of salt.
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Batz how ur talkin i dont think u fly bombers and its really hard to try to line ur plane up on the target, shoot cons (or even locate the con and not to mention if theres more then 1 con attacking u its hard to keep up with them), or bomb with no exturnal views. i can see what ur talkin bout if u turn them off if lets say an A-20, JU-88, or Lancaster,cuz they have 1 and 3 guns, but the KI-67, B17, B26s, and this is a must needed extural view bomber the AR234 cuz ur ganna be gunnin blind so if u can turn some off and some on (witch u cant unless u change the flight programs) that whould even things out. but if u turn them off u might as well take out the AR234 cuz whats the use of a bomber with a gun that u cant see to shoot with.
It doesnt take long to check for cons from each station. Most of the time radar already gives away cons position in relation to yours.
yea it does take long cuz u have to go to each gun and look in every direction that, that 1 gun can view and that will take a while in the B17 B26 and KI67."MOST OF THE TIME" dar gives cons loc. away but half the time ppl kill the dar at a base and u cant see any cons by u. and if a con attacks u, u have to go though each gun to see where he went and thats far from realistic cuz gunners in bombers informed other gunners where a enemy plane was. and like i said earlyer its ganna be diffacult tracking 1 con but most the time he brings his buddys and dealing with 3 or more cons at once with no exturnal views WILL be impossable i know from playing in the H2H arena in a B17 tryin to fight off 3 109s with exturnal views off yea i killed 1 but by the time i found the second one my wing was off and i was fallin out of the sky.
So with that said Please dont turn exturnal views off theres not that many buff squads out there but i bet there will be less if u turn them off and the number r finally going up in the CT if u do this its more then likely they will go down cuz there will be nothing but endless furballs and yeah it'll be fun in the first 2 or 3 days but what happeneds when ppl get tyred of furballin "they leave" and i know i'll be 1 of them that goes back to the MA cuz furballs is fun but its not an everyday thing and i love bombing but in my opnion its a load of watermelon if u turn them off. and most the ppl that say it would be better to turn them off dont fly buff and sience they dont have the advatage they whine and 1 thing i learned about playin this game is that yall aways give the whiners their way. but what do i know iv just played this game for 2 and 1/2 years and i like it how it is "why fix the dam thing if its not broken" and i know some1s ganna have some smartarse thing to say about what i just wrote well all i have to say to u is if u dont have nothin nice to say dont say anthing at all :p
and thats all i got to say about that :) sry this post so long i got carryed away
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Originally posted by storch
The external view is a phenomenal advantage. the three ship's defensive armament coupled to one gunner gives the buff an extremely unbalancing advantage over fighters.
If you want to fly buffs you should need an additional crew member minimum and you should need fighter escort.
the losses experienced by buff crews in WWII were horrendous when the buffs were unescorted. this will cause the 490th type guys to rely on the 312th and plan missions. as opposed to *yawn* I'm bored says Lokee, grab three B26's pork a base where people are taking off to furball from, score 6 kills and land.
As it is now 1 man in a formation can take off and singlehandedly pork a field, fend off all comers and gleefully rtb. this should not be.
Disabling the external view will go a long way to providing a much more immersive experience for the rest of us.
All that plus I hate the %^$@!#* buffs. so take it with a grain of salt.
What Storch said.
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Originally posted by Jester
They were there in almost every theater. We have kind got into a rut of not putting out the "Heavies" (B-17, Lanc & even B-26) very often.
their impact for the #'s of players in CT is excessive. disable formations *and* toughen up targets greatly, like 10x, fine, but then jabos are out of luck.
the heavies were used for strategic targets, not tactical bombing.
and the avg CT weenie already "abuses" bombers.
enable them at only the furthermost rear bases, w/o formations, then it might just work out.
but this has nothing to do with external views.
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there we go shane that will work:D
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Whats this Batz? "Usually its 1 fighter vrs 1 group of Bombers" I see you dont fly buffs much....its not unsual for 3 or 4 fighters to be on you at one time. Hitech put external viewa on the buffs for one reason "visability" because you cant have a crew of 10 watching like AW had and because he chose not to enable "Otto" gunning (thank God) . Its a very good balance .. Im sure the lines will be drawn between the Buff pilots and the fighter pilots that would like some easy kills or are tired of getting killed chasing a buff. (thats the only reason for the change) Maybe we should just change the name to FBT "Furrball Theater"
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screw furball... call it shane theatre!!
:D
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Originally posted by TrueKillJG54
Batz how ur talkin i dont think u fly bombers and its really hard to try to line ur plane up on the target, shoot cons (or even locate the con and not to mention if theres more then 1 con attacking u its hard to keep up with them), or bomb with no exturnal views. i can see what ur talkin bout if u turn them off if lets say an A-20, JU-88, or Lancaster,cuz they have 1 and 3 guns, but the KI-67, B17, B26s, and this is a must needed extural view bomber the AR234 cuz ur ganna be gunnin blind so if u can turn some off and some on (witch u cant unless u change the flight programs) that whould even things out. but if u turn them off u might as well take out the AR234 cuz whats the use of a bomber with a gun that u cant see to shoot with.
yea it does take long cuz u have to go to each gun and look in every direction that, that 1 gun can view and that will take a while in the B17 B26 and KI67."MOST OF THE TIME" dar gives cons loc. away but half the time ppl kill the dar at a base and u cant see any cons by u. and if a con attacks u, u have to go though each gun to see where he went and thats far from realistic cuz gunners in bombers informed other gunners where a enemy plane was. and like i said earlyer its ganna be diffacult tracking 1 con but most the time he brings his buddys and dealing with 3 or more cons at once with no exturnal views WILL be impossable i know from playing in the H2H arena in a B17 tryin to fight off 3 109s with exturnal views off yea i killed 1 but by the time i found the second one my wing was off and i was fallin out of the sky.
So with that said Please dont turn exturnal views off theres not that many buff squads out there but i bet there will be less if u turn them off and the number r finally going up in the CT if u do this its more then likely they will go down cuz there will be nothing but endless furballs and yeah it'll be fun in the first 2 or 3 days but what happeneds when ppl get tyred of furballin "they leave" and i know i'll be 1 of them that goes back to the MA cuz furballs is fun but its not an everyday thing and i love bombing but in my opnion its a load of watermelon if u turn them off. and most the ppl that say it would be better to turn them off dont fly buff and sience they dont have the advatage they whine and 1 thing i learned about playin this game is that yall aways give the whiners their way. but what do i know iv just played this game for 2 and 1/2 years and i like it how it is "why fix the dam thing if its not broken" and i know some1s ganna have some smartarse thing to say about what i just wrote well all i have to say to u is if u dont have nothin nice to say dont say anthing at all :p
and thats all i got to say about that :) sry this post so long i got carryed away
Try typing it over in English.
I know exactly what I am talking about. From the nose gun position on most bombers simply page up and move forward. In fact set keypad 8 to the desired preset view and you can see for miles. You may need to add some forward down angle.
You simply don’t know what you are talking about, and from the style of your last post neither did I. At least 90% of it any how.
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Originally posted by PropNut
Whats this Batz? "Usually its 1 fighter vrs 1 group of Bombers" I see you dont fly buffs much....its not unsual for 3 or 4 fighters to be on you at one time. Hitech put external viewa on the buffs for one reason "visability" because you cant have a crew of 10 watching like AW had and because he chose not to enable "Otto" gunning (thank God) . Its a very good balance .. Im sure the lines will be drawn between the Buff pilots and the fighter pilots that would like some easy kills or are tired of getting killed chasing a buff. (thats the only reason for the change) Maybe we should just change the name to FBT "Furrball Theater"
Maybe we should just change the name to FBT "Furrball Theater
About damnn time it should be!
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Count me solidly in the "I hate buffs because they shoot me down too often" camp, but I could not care less one way or the other if they have external views. I dont have any problem lining up with targets and I never use the external views, and I dont even fly buffs but rarely.
If the buff guys say they want them then leave them in, not a big deal to me, I mostly ignore buffs anyway now because of the lazer gunnners.
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Originally posted by Grits
Count me solidly in the "I hate buffs because they shoot me down too often" camp, but I could not care less one way or the other if they have external views. I dont have any problem lining up with targets and I never use the external views, and I dont even fly buffs but rarely.
If the buff guys say they want them then leave them in, not a big deal to me, I mostly ignore buffs anyway now because of the lazer gunnners.
I mostly ignore buffs anyway now because of the lazer gunnners
...and is why they dont need external view. Once they do see you, ur dead!
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learn to attack them properly.
that hawk, always looking for a way to expose himself to the least risk.
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Admittedly, most of my deaths to buffs are my fault for attacking from the wrong area. If they happen to be in the right position when I see them I make a pass or two, if they are not I move on to the next dot on the horizon.
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Id rather have them but try it for a week, seems the fair thing to do.
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Like many here I would rather you keep the "exernal view" for buffs allowed. Tough as it is to find players who will fly buffs, now I think we might see even less. It is a help to the buff pilots to be sure.
Odd though, I never use external view to line up on a target. I just use the clipboard zoomed in and then in the bomb sites I look for the target.
My two cents.
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Just use them as really BIG dive bombers.:aok
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Originally posted by Shane
learn to attack them properly.
that hawk, always looking for a way to expose himself to the least risk.
I dont attack bombers very often but when I do........
Well shane go look up my stats before you post.
Stats earlier than February are for LtMagee.
August 03 - May 2004
1. Ki-67 (36 Kills 1 Loss)
2. Ju-88 (131 Kills 8 Losses)
3. B-17 (48 Kills 12 Losses)
4. A-20 (16 Kills 3 Losses)
5. Lancaster (7 Kills 1 Loss)
6. B-26 (8 Kills 2 Losses)
Total: 246 Kills 27 Losses
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so why are you whining about buff's external views?
lets find out. unless you just screened for the ftr kills.... but read on anyway.
aug
23 kills of boston, 14 in gun, 6 in osti
3 ju87's 2 in la7 1 in m16
24 ju88's 4 in gv's rest in hvy cannon planes, 1 in a spit1
18 ki67's 15 in ship/gv
10 tbm's all in planes
sep
41 ju88's 19 in gun/gv rest in fighters (most in p38 - 15)
53 ki67's 46 in ship gun, 7 in f4u(1d)'s
oct
8 b26's - all in f4u1-d's
10 ju88's 5 in gv's 5 in ftrs (38/la5)
5 ki67's 3 in gv, 2 in 38/f6
nov
10 ju88's 2 in m16, rest in 40b/e and 38
1 ki67 1 in gv
lets skip to past 2 months
mar
33 ju88's 10 in gv/gun rest in spit5/9 jug25 and 38
40 ki67's 37 in ship gun 3 in f4u/38
apr
13 a20's (first time u've gotten any) 6 in gun/gv rest in spit9/niki/51
0 b26 died once to one.
14 ju88's 5 in ship gun, 5 in spit9 2in la5
14 ki67's 8 in ship gun/gv, 3 in tiff, 2 in mossie, 1 in 51b
as you can see most of your buff kills come from guns/gv or heavily armed planes, usually with cannon . i didn't bother checking the deaths.
now i can understand your whining better in the proper context.
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Shane you are a freaking idiot. Your statement wasnt for total all kills of buffs. We were refering to fighter kills and External views.
Here wait, words right from your own mouth...
"learn to attack them properly".
I do attack them properly. My fighter vs bomber stats prove it.
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so then why are you whining about their external views?
why not fly offline and kill the ai drones with impunity - is this the kind of "action" you're looking for? zero risk?
if you bothered to read, you 'd see i said you might have screened only ftrs and i went on to point out that you usually only go for them with heavily armed cannon planes.
and probably wait til the buff is focused on a squaddie and you swoop down for the kill as they fall flaming to earth alongside of the buffs you picked off.
but let's pick apart the ki67's since you're so impressive with your k/d on them.
aug 3 kills 2 deaths (f4u1 an dp40b)
sep 7 kills 0 deaths (f4u1- and 1d)
oct 2 kills 0 deaths (f6 and p38)
nov 0 kills 0 deaths
dec 8 kills 1 death (p47d30 and f4u1 and -1d)
jan 0 kills 0 deaths
feb 5 kills 0 deaths (p38)
mar 3 kills 0 deaths (p38, f4u-1)
apr 6 kills 3 deaths (mossie, tiff, 51b)
may 0 kills 0 deaths to date.
let's see...
34 kills 6 deaths seems your math is a little off. , from a 35:0 to a 5.75:1 ratio. still not bad at all.
lets take a look at the more interesting b17 stats..
jan 25 kills 4 deaths all kills in me262/163 and 2 deaths 0 kills in spit9/ki-61 and 2 deaths. where'd the other 23 b17 kills 8 deaths come from? MA? ahh yes you're 16:7 vs them in MA going back to tour 24 (earliest tour on innomin8's stats page.) in any case, 41-11 - from a 4:1 k/d down to 3.72:1!! close enough for gubmint work.
the point remains, you attacked them with either cannon or 6+ .50's, most likely coming in fast from on high - which is the proper tactic. (but again how many squaddies died to distract those "all seeing death ray buffs?")
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Hey..... while were at it can we do something about those damn manned field acks???:rofl I kinda hate being killed by those.. and with tracers off its almost a cheat!!!! Can we disable tracers "off"? And those Tigers...I always hate to see one of those roll in to town. maybe we can get rid of them too? And P-6E why would you want buffs to be an easier kill if you already know how to attack one? wouldnt that be unfulfilling? Maybe we all just need a big keg of beer and we can all sit around and hug on each other and figure out we dont need to be killing each other anyway .....after all theres always online Bingo, its not nearly as violent and doesnt have half the whining. I say leave it as Hitech designed it and the day he changes it we can all learn to live with it then.
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(...Grits sees PropNut coming around the corner heading to the front door of the Pilots Lounge. There are two identical PropNuts walking with him, one on each side and a bit behind, and all three look like the are heading for trouble. Grits decides he is going to need some backup, turns around and the only other ones there are Shane and Hawk slugging it out in the corner near the bathrooms.)
Grits: "Damnit you too, Prop is IB, he's gonna be here in no time and we need a plan! OK, this is what we'll do, as he gets inside, you guys distract him from the sides and I'll jump on him when he's not looking."
Shane: "Grits, you moron, thats not how you attack PropNut! Ever heard of the TA? Go make use of it."
Hawk: "Yeah Grits, thats way too risky."
(So, in lieu of help, Grits does the last thing that PropNut will expect, and thats to attack from behind him where surely he cant see anyone coming. Grits circles around behind and is just about to....BAM!)
Grits: "Hey, how did I get to the tower?"
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Can we disable tracers "off"?
Im pretty sure the manned ack tracers are always off.
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Originally posted by Shane
so then why are you whining about their external views?
why not fly offline and kill the ai drones with impunity - is this the kind of "action" you're looking for? zero risk?
if you bothered to read, you 'd see i said you might have screened only ftrs and i went on to point out that you usually only go for them with heavily armed cannon planes.
and probably wait til the buff is focused on a squaddie and you swoop down for the kill as they fall flaming to earth alongside of the buffs you picked off.
but let's pick apart the ki67's since you're so impressive with your k/d on them.
aug 3 kills 2 deaths (f4u1 an dp40b)
sep 7 kills 0 deaths (f4u1- and 1d)
oct 2 kills 0 deaths (f6 and p38)
nov 0 kills 0 deaths
dec 8 kills 1 death (p47d30 and f4u1 and -1d)
jan 0 kills 0 deaths
feb 5 kills 0 deaths (p38)
mar 3 kills 0 deaths (p38, f4u-1)
apr 6 kills 3 deaths (mossie, tiff, 51b)
may 0 kills 0 deaths to date.
let's see...
34 kills 6 deaths seems your math is a little off. , from a 35:0 to a 5.75:1 ratio. still not bad at all.
lets take a look at the more interesting b17 stats..
jan 25 kills 4 deaths all kills in me262/163 and 2 deaths 0 kills in spit9/ki-61 and 2 deaths. where'd the other 23 b17 kills 8 deaths come from? MA? ahh yes you're 16:7 vs them in MA going back to tour 24 (earliest tour on innomin8's stats page.) in any case, 41-11 - from a 4:1 k/d down to 3.72:1!! close enough for gubmint work.
the point remains, you attacked them with either cannon or 6+ .50's, most likely coming in fast from on high - which is the proper tactic. (but again how many squaddies died to distract those "all seeing death ray buffs?")
I dont use (or didnt mean to use) MA stats and I stand corrected on the 6 deaths not just 1. I am glad you took this time out of your not so bzy life to figure it out for me :rofl :rofl :rofl
Wanna do the Ju-88s for me? We seem to see this bird more than any other bomber in the CT.
153 kills 15 losses 10.2:1.
Now, its kinda hard to kill the Ki-67 in anything without cannons because the other planes without cannons are also much slower than the Ki-67. Also, the 20mm guns in the Ki-67 make one mean con with the slower less powerfull fighters.
Rank the
Spit V vs the Ju88: 23 kills and 2 losses: 11.5:1
Hurri IIC: 12 kills 0 losses: 12.0:0
P-40B: 3 kills 1 loss: 3.0:1
P-40E: 15 kills 0 losses: 15.0:0
Spit MKI: 1 kills 1 loss: ouch!
total: 54 kills 4 losses: 13.5:1
Its not really about "risk" its about "fun" and getting clobbered by a bomber from a straight 6 shot or from 20mm BBs (Ki-67) is not fun and is also rather stupid especialy the Ki-67.
Remove external views and yes, you will see me attck more bombers.
We all have our fun in our own ways. We also pick on each other about them. :aok
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[ironic]
How about disabling fire from all guns at once too? Sure it pretty unrealistic - one man cannt to fire from 12 turets in 3 different bombers. Some ppl will be very happy from it :rolleyes:
[/ironic]
Leave alone external view for bombers, please.
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So are there too many bombers and is their impact too big at CT???
I really love to kill the bombers and it is a pity if there will be less of them around as a result of making them harder to fly.
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Being mainly a buff driver I’m greatly opposed to the disabling of external views. The biggest advantage (for me ) of having the external views is the ability to check general “SA” at the most critical times of a bombing sortie, calibration and release of bombs (not gunning). Without external views, I would have to conduct more “NOE” missions in heavies like B-26, B-17 and KI-67’s, this would not be historically correct. Another issue with the disabling of external views is C-47 sorties, I would find it tough to drop supplies or troops on target without the views. I hope the CT staff would reconsider the disabling of external views.
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Originally posted by wombat
Another issue with the disabling of external views is C-47 sorties, I would find it tough to drop supplies or troops on target without the views.
C-47s can do it, too?
How do you do this thing?
- oldman
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How about the inability to see where a gun isn't?
I.E. A Lancaster can't look straight down in external view.
An A20 or Boston can't look any direction downwards.