Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Joker312 on May 09, 2004, 09:31:29 AM

Title: No swastikas
Post by: Joker312 on May 09, 2004, 09:31:29 AM
Skuzzy,

      I understand your right to refuse skins with swastikas but I dont understand the reason. We play a game that involves aircraft that the LW used during the war. Those A/C were decorated with swastikas. Whats the big deal?

     I am very sympathetic to the attrocities that the third reich committed throughout the conflict. I am equally unsympathetic to the current rash of PC BS that appears almost everywhere and now it seems to have reared its ugly head here.

    If there is some other reason to alter a historically accurate model of a WWII German aircraft. I would love to hear it.

    This question is by no means is confrontational, please dont take it that way. I also do not wish that the decision be changed, My only motivation is to understand why anyone would be offended by just the swastika and not the national markings or the planes and tanks alone.

    Thanks in advance for your explanation.
Title: No swastikas
Post by: straffo on May 09, 2004, 10:29:48 AM
What about doing a search on this forum ?


Search result (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=121531&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending)
Title: No swastikas
Post by: Shane on May 09, 2004, 10:37:46 AM
it's very simple....


in some countries in europe it is illegal to display the swastika. so unless HTC is willing to cut loose a chunk of his customer base, he has to play by their rules.

do a google.
Title: No swastikas
Post by: Joker312 on May 09, 2004, 10:54:36 AM
I have heard that but this is not for display in another country, unless playing an online sim is to be mistaken for publicly displaying a forbidden insignia.

Besides we already have swastikas on the Finnish 109 or is HTC allowed to do that because its not a german plane?
Title: No swastikas
Post by: Joker312 on May 09, 2004, 11:17:49 AM
Straffo,


      Thanks for pushing me in the right direction. I did a search and found out what I was looking for. Consider this matter closed.
Title: No swastikas
Post by: straffo on May 09, 2004, 11:17:50 AM
It's allowed because it's not a swastika : it's a Von Rosen cross.
Title: No swastikas
Post by: straffo on May 09, 2004, 11:19:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Joker312
Straffo,


      Thanks for pushing me in the right direction. I did a search and found out what I was looking for. Consider this matter closed.


I'm sorry to not have pointed your the right thread , I was to lazy to re-dig into the threads :)

btw I hope I didn't sounded harsh on my previous post ,I was  in a hury so my answer was quite short
Title: No swastikas
Post by: BenDover on May 09, 2004, 11:49:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Joker312
Besides we already have swastikas on the Finnish 109 or is HTC allowed to do that because its not a german plane?

Its not THE swastika though.
Title: No swastikas
Post by: Cobra412 on May 09, 2004, 09:33:10 PM
I though it was okay so long as it wasn't for anything but historical representation reasons and not political affiliation?  I'm curious is the History channel programs on WWII banned from those countries because it shows these things?

I too can understand why many would not want this but as far as loosing customers because it's historically accurate I don't know.  I know I had read somewhere that there was a fine line as to how and when the swastika could be shown and I wanna say it was only for historical reasons.
Title: No swastikas
Post by: BenDover on May 10, 2004, 01:58:54 AM
Games don't constitute as historical references though.
Title: No swastikas
Post by: Flyboy on May 10, 2004, 01:32:23 PM
i will not fly in a plane that have a swastika on it.
Title: No swastikas
Post by: 6GunUSMC on May 10, 2004, 08:49:01 PM
Yet we have a Red Star on Russian aircraft representing the Murderous Stalin regime.  Communism today still imprisons over 1/4 of the world population.  Remember Stalins purges, and the murder of German POWs as well as Jews??? - Somehow history no longer gives him the recognition for treachery he so richly deserves.  To those who believe that Communism and Communists have changed need not look back beyond the June 4, 1989 massacre in Tiananmen Square.  The Third Reich lasted 12 horrible years, but summing up all of the atrocities comitted during those 12 years is paled by comparison to those that have been comitted in the 86 years of Communist regimes, and the numbers are still being tallied day after day.  YET people are worried about a display of a swastika - that is completely historically accurate -  of a symbol of a party that as a political influence is DEAD.  Its leaders who ordered the crimes be comitted are DEAD.  I am more offended by the display of the Red Star which was adopted by Communist nations around the world because they are a great evil that continues to thrive to this day.  I am completely sick of Political Correctness in all forms.  It is time for people to start calling things what they are and to stop worrying about who will be offended.  You will NEVER satisfy everyone, thats a given.   Just my $0.02. :cool:
Title: No swastikas
Post by: moot on May 10, 2004, 09:15:23 PM
say that to the next german you meet.
Title: No swastikas
Post by: Rolex on May 10, 2004, 09:40:34 PM
I hear what you're saying, but the nations whose people were subjected to the atrocities of the nazi's chose to ban the symbol long before political correctness became popular. I think we can still enjoy AH without the symbols, don't you?

I'm really not trying to be argumentative because I find communism repulsive also, but I don't think over 1,250,000,000 people are in communist prisons. Using imprisonment as a measure of a society can backfire since, unfortunately, the U.S. has more people in prison and a higher percentage of population in prison than any other nation on earth. :(
Title: No swastikas
Post by: Kweassa on May 11, 2004, 12:03:27 AM
[joke] The US prison system is actually a welfare benefit.

 Find a bum on a street? Send him to prison - shelter, food, warmth, and some manly love. [/joke]


 ..


 The red star of the communist symbol hardly stands for Stalin alone.

 Though it'd be pointless to start a political thread of this explaining why the meaning of Communism to history is sorely different from the meaning of Fascism to history, a much simpler(yet effective) scope of view may be taken - whatever the irreconcileable differences there may be between capitalists and communists, still, they both agreed that fascism was the common enemy of both.

 Not to mention the fact that the spread and variety of communism and socialism as a social experiment, has taken various different steps in various different countries.

 Italy was a fascist country during the years of WWII, but portraying the Italian fasces on a plane would not be disallowed, unlike the German Swastika. In that sense, the German Swastika, and/or any variant of it symbolizing the German brand of political fascism, holds a unique place in human history. The indecency and horror of what the symbol holds, is absolutely unmatched by any other. While the color red, and the symbol star, would be something that may still be held in a proud heritage to many communists who were never/and currently in no way, affiliated to the Soviet interpretation of "real socialism", the same does not hold for the German Swastika.

 Coming from a country that was under Japanese imperial rule, I don't find the portrayal of the Hinomaru in these such games offensive - but if the legal limits of other countries shall prevent the use of the German swastika(which I also do not find any meaning to it when its used in a game), while I do not understand it, will have but no choice to abide by what is set.

 *Shrug* Thus, no swastika for the German planes I skin. Looks a bit empty/missing but oh well...... !!
Title: No swastikas
Post by: straffo on May 11, 2004, 01:38:16 AM
Not only Kweassa, Red cross or Hinomaru are national symbol,Swastika is not the correct national symbol is the hackencreuz.

That's why the display of the Swastika is prohibited when some symbol as weird are autorized (I'm speaking of the law of in my country)
Title: No swastikas
Post by: Stratocaster on May 11, 2004, 06:28:19 AM
you who want the swastika are freaks.......... Screw you you friggen Nazi lovers
Title: No swastikas
Post by: GScholz on May 11, 2004, 07:46:25 AM
Okaaaay ... time to take it a little easy there 68strat.


Quote
Originally posted by straffo
Swastika is not the correct national symbol is the hackencreuz.


The Hakenkreuz is the Swastika. I'm not sure if that's what you meant.
Title: No swastikas
Post by: straffo on May 11, 2004, 07:50:56 AM
Its a wonderfull typo :D

I though BalkenKreuz  

(http://www.panzertole.de/bilder/balkenkreuz.gif)

but wrote hackencreuz



you know the othercreuz ;)
Title: No swastikas
Post by: GScholz on May 11, 2004, 07:57:02 AM
"Otherkreuz" *lol* :D
Title: No swastikas
Post by: 2stony on May 11, 2004, 03:02:43 PM
Well, the "meatball" on the Japanese planes should be banned too. The attrition rate in their POW camps was 40% compared to the German POW camps which was around 3%. What does that tell you?

:rolleyes:
Title: No swastikas
Post by: BenDover on May 11, 2004, 03:26:32 PM
Germs and bacteria like tropical climits more than the colder European one?
Title: No swastikas
Post by: SlapShot on May 11, 2004, 03:53:30 PM
The Swastika is legally outlawed in some countries for whatever reason they deemed appropriate. It's not debateable.

If you don't like the "Red" Star, then go rally in Russia to have it leagally banned. If you don't like the Japanese "meatball", then go to Japan and have it legally banned.

Don't start applying your own moral standards or some stupid-prettythanged child logic to try and ban them from Aces High, or justify why the Swastika should be displayed.

If a symbol is legally banned within a country or countries, I am sure the HTC would oblige and not use them.
Title: No swastikas
Post by: vorticon on May 11, 2004, 04:04:11 PM
Quote
Well, the "meatball" on the Japanese planes should be banned too. The attrition rate in their POW camps was 40% compared to the German POW camps which was around 3%. What does that tell you?


we shouldn't use the maple leaf on the mosquito because canada also rounded up innocent civilians and sent them to POW camps...BANNN EEL POOSABLE SEEMBOOLS DAT REFER TO A PARTICOOOLOR COONTRAAYYYY!!!!! ;)
Title: No swastikas
Post by: frank3 on May 12, 2004, 03:47:15 PM
The swastika is actually a pretty good looking sign, very symmetric and all :)

Also it's a very old sign, used 3000 years ago, I've known what it meant but forgot and too lazy too google...
but here's a pic which proves it's been used otherwise:
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/68_1084394723_eingangsbild[1].jpg)

I really don't care if I'd fly a plane with or without a swastika on it, I mean...that's realism isn't it? If we'd take it that serious we might as well bann the german planes :rolleyes:
Title: No swastikas
Post by: Furball on May 12, 2004, 03:59:20 PM
we should ban german too while we are at it.
Title: No swastikas
Post by: vorticon on May 12, 2004, 04:02:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
we should ban german too while we are at it.


as long as we can ban swaziland to ;)
Title: No swastikas
Post by: BenDover on May 12, 2004, 04:14:44 PM
I think its a hindu symbol for welcome or something...
Title: No swastikas
Post by: Mister Fork on May 12, 2004, 09:12:36 PM
Ya know, I used to think that it would be real nice to have the swazzie on my favorite rides too until I thought about it...

It's alright to ask why, but my reasoning has to do about Hitler and what it represents.  Those of the jewish faith might consider it EXTREMELY rude to have the symbol that hid the murder of millions during WWII on LW aircraft, as a proud symbol of their alliance.

The Swastika today is still a symbol of hatred toward Jews.  Besides, I don't want to dirty up the tails of my favorite Luftwaffe rides.
Title: No swastikas
Post by: txmx on May 13, 2004, 12:11:30 AM
Need a reason?
How bout 6 million dead Jews For a start.
Title: No swastikas
Post by: Pyro on May 13, 2004, 12:57:14 AM
This has ceased to have anything to do with AH2.