Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Udie on May 11, 2004, 12:22:40 PM
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No how no way! (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_american_beheaded&cid=540&ncid=1480)
it's just plain rediculus
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Originally posted by Udie
No how no way! (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_american_beheaded&cid=540&ncid=1480)
it's just plain rediculus
Al queda is there now, because we are. Easy targets for them. Saddam had no wmds or ties to terrorists before that. That is why it had nothing to do with the war on terror.
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when was "war on terror" given as an excuse for iraq?
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
Saddam had no wmds or ties to terrorists before that.
Dude did you not watch the news before a year ago? I'm still waiting to see what happened to the wmd we cataloged years ago. Also he sure as hell did have ties to terrorists. How many Isreali's were killed by terrorist paid by SH? He had plane fuselages that terrorist used to train in. THere was an Al Queda group in north western Iraq, known about well before the war. Get your head out of the dirt man.
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Originally posted by Udie
Dude did you not watch the news before a year ago? I'm still waiting to see what happened to the wmd we cataloged years ago. Also he sure as hell did have ties to terrorists. How many Isreali's were killed by terrorist paid by SH? He had plane fuselages that terrorist used to train in. THere was an Al Queda group in north western Iraq, known about well before the war. Get your head out of the dirt man.
oh, you still think there are wmd's huh? And what about the pentagon declaring that there was no proof of ties to al queda and saddam.
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=11&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/egypt_iraq_american_beheaded
And so the mass exodus of private contractors begins.
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Personally, I'm starting to think we should just leave and let these people just live in 12th century chaos as they seem so fond of.
It's days like this that make me want to be an isolationist.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Personally, I'm starting to think we should just leave and let these people just live in 12th century chaos as they seem so fond of.
It's days like this that make me want to be an isolationist.
Do you really think we have a real exit strategy for iraq? Hell the military is argueing within itself because rumsfeld thought we didnt need anymore then 150k troops on the ground while generals that were forced to resign said we needed 300k+.
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reguardless of past ties it is closley related to the war on terror now.
Terrorists who commit acts of "ATROCITY at whim "EXECUTE" an American "HOSTAGE" for "Abuse" of detainees while in US custody.
Kidnapping.....hostages....te rrorism....execution
Compared to:
Prisoner abuse
Hmmmmm both being bad things to do....but who's side should I take on this issue.....hmmmm.....these decisions are tough
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while generals that were forced to resign said we needed 300k+.
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where did you get this from?
Are you saying hussein has never had or ever wielded a weapon of mass destruction? Are you saying he had them once upon a time but got rid of them? If so where did they (WMDs) go?
wtf are you saying?
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
reguardless of past ties it is closley related to the war on terror now.
Terrorists who commit acts of "ATROCITY at whim "EXECUTE" an American "HOSTAGE" for "Abuse" of detainees while in US custody.
Kidnapping.....hostages....te rrorism....execution
Compared to:
Prisoner abuse
Hmmmmm both being bad things to do....but who's side should I take on this issue.....hmmmm.....these decisions are tough
Quagmire all the way. Way to get us into another vietnam bush.
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Originally posted by Yeager
while generals that were forced to resign said we needed 300k+.
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where did you get this from?
Are you saying hussein has never had or ever wielded a weapon of mass destruction? Are you saying he had them once upon a time but got rid of them? If so where did they (WMDs) go?
wtf are you saying?
He had them back in the 80's, and they were destoryed by us in the gulf war. I am saying that he didnt have them at the time of our invasion last year.
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
Al queda is there now, because we are. Easy targets for them. Saddam had no wmds or ties to terrorists before that. That is why it had nothing to do with the war on terror.
Have you had your head stuck in the sand for the last 10 years?
quote:
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Our war on terror begins with al Qaida, but it does not end there. . . . we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime. . . President George W. Bush, Joint Session of Congress, September 20, 2001
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Saddam Hussein is paying $25,000 to the relatives of Palestinian suicide bombers -- a $15,000 raise much welcomed by the bombers' families. In Tulkarm, one of the poorest towns on the West Bank, a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council handed out the checks from Saddam. The payments have been made for at least two years, but the amount has suddenly jumped up by $15,000 -- a bonus for the families of 'martyrs', to reward those taking part in the escalating war against Israel. . . . Fox News, March 26, 2002
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This general served Saddam Hussein for decades. Along with another Iraqi defector, Sabah Khodada (see below), the general tells of terrorists training in a Boeing 707 resting next to railroad tracks on the edge of Salman Pak, an area south of Baghdad. The existence of the plane has been confirmed by U.N. inspectors. The general describes the men who trained there, the camp's security, and his "gut feeling" that the camp was in some way tied to the Sept. 11 attacks. Iraqi Lt. General, PBS and New York Times Interview, November 6, 2001
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A captain in the Iraqi army from 1982 to 1992, he worked at what he describes as a highly secret terrorist training camp at Salman Pak, an area south of Baghdad. In this translated interview Khodada describes what went on at Salman Pak, including details on training hijackers. He emigrated to the U.S. in May 2001. Sabah Kodada, Iraqi Army Captain, PBS and New York Times Interview, October 14, 2001
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An investigation by Frontline confirmed that Iraqi intelligence had trained at least forty Islamic terrorists between 1995 and 2000 in how to hijacking airliners using a Boeing-747 that was originally Kuwaiti property. Frontline, PBS, November 14, 2001
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Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of American citizens. . . . Congressional Resolution Authorizing Force Against Iraq, October 15, 2002
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Shortly before the Sept. 11 attacks, a group of al-Qaida fighters left Afghanistan and set up shop in Iraq as a backup base, according to a report in today‘s Los Angeles Times. Osama bin Laden‘s jihadists established such a base in town of Al Biyara and nearby mountain villages where Kurdish militants had begun imposing the strict Islamic rule much like Afghanistan‘s ousted Taliban regime, according to the Times report. While this base is further evidence of Saddam Hussein‘s recent support of al-Qaida, documented by many intelligence sources over the last 10 years, Iraq is attempting to maintain plausible deniability with regard to the bases – suggesting they are outside the control of the government in Baghdad. Intelmessages.com and Los Angeles Times, December 9, 2002
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The British also released a dossier on Iraq which claimed that at least two key Al-Qaeda lieutenants underwent training inIraq. The dossier also confirmed that Iraq was paying Al-Qaeda to use its Ansar forces based in northern Iraq to attack the Kurdish forces. Reuters, September 14, 2002
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Simply no basis for action
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Complain complain complain. That's all I've heard out of stabby. Lets bash the administration and offer no solution. Typical libral tactic.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Simply no basis for action
Nope none.....i saw it on TV so it must be true.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Complain complain complain. That's all I've heard out of stabby. Lets bash the administration and offer no solution. Typical libral tactic.
I was against the war from the begining, that was my solution. It is to late to just pull out now. Is there a simple solution for the quagmire bush got us into. No. We will be losing men and women in iraq for the next 20 years or so. What i do know is that there is a serious lack of ground troops in that country. We forsaked our allies in nato thinking we could go in alone and take care of buisness. Well that was poor planning. How long before blair is out and those few british troops that are there pull out?
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
I was against the war from the begining, that was my solution. It is to late to just pull out now. Is there a simple solution for the quagmire bush got us into. No. We will be losing men and women in iraq for the next 20 years or so. What i do know is that there is a serious lack of ground troops in that country. We forsaked our allies in nato thinking we could go in alone and take care of buisness. Well that was poor planning. How long before blair is out and those few british troops that are there pull out?
AGAIN Blaim BUSH but offer no solution???????
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
AGAIN Blaim BUSH but offer no solution???????
Do you offer a solution other then killemall? My solution, appologize to our allies for being dicks then bring in 200k more troops.
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=11&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/egypt_iraq_american_beheaded
And so the mass exodus of private contractors begins.
I was actually thinking strongly about taking a job in Bagdad for Haliburton. They're hiring Autocad techs. I had my family behind me and everything. Not now! :eek:
And stabby, just when did you get the idea that the war on terror was only a war on al queda?
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Updates with more information (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=1&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/egypt_iraq_american_beheaded)
Gruesome story. What I can't figure out is why he would go to Iraq without a contract in place beforehand. Maybe he underestimated the level of violence in that place. 26 years old - young enough to feel invincible, old enough to start planning for the future.
The video showed five men wearing headscarves and black ski masks, standing over a bound man in an orange jumpsuit — similar to a prisoner's uniform — who identified himself as Nick Berg, a U.S. contractor whose body was found on a highway overpass in Baghdad on Saturday.
"My name is Nick Berg, my father's name is Michael, my mother's name is Susan," the man said on the video. "I have a brother and sister, David and Sarah. I live in ... Philadelphia."
After reading a statement, the men were seen pulling the man to his side and putting a large knife to his neck. A scream sounded as the men cut his head off, shouting "Allahu Akbar!" — "God is great." They then held the head out before the camera.
Berg's mother, Suzanne Berg, said her son was in Iraq as an independent businessman to help rebuild communication antennas. He had been missing since April 9, she said.
"He had this idea that he could help rebuild the infrastructure," she said.
Berg, who was in Baghdad from late December to Feb. 1, returned to Iraq in March. He didn't find any work and planned again to return home on March 30, but his daily communications home stopped on March 24. He later told his parents he was jailed by Iraqi officials at a checkpoint in Mosul.
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On April 5, the Bergs filed suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military. The next day Berg was released. He told his parents he hadn't been mistreated.
The Bergs last heard from their son April 9, when he said he would come home by way of Jordan, Turkey or Kuwait. But by then, hostilities in Iraq had escalated.
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
Do you offer a solution other then killemall? My solution, appologize to our allies for being dicks then bring in 200k more troops.
WOW an actual solution.....libral as it may be.....but an actual attempt at productivity. Congrats you have leaped out of your libral shell just long enough for you to go back to saying America needs to appologize.
Well its a start but I seriously doubt US allies or the UN for that matter would do that much better of a job. I think we should wait till the change over in june and elections after that. It has still been a relativly short time since the invasion that I think its too soon to tell.
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Originally posted by Udie
I was actually thinking strongly about taking a job in Bagdad for Haliburton. They're hiring Autocad techs. I had my family behind me and everything. Not now! :eek:
And stabby, just when did you get the idea that the war on terror was only a war on al queda?
Because terrorism is such a vauge word. It is easy to label a group. Now would you call the insurgants in iraq terrorists or partisans. I would say partisans.
If you have a family do not go to iraq.
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
Because terrorism is such a vauge word. It is easy to label a group. Now would you call the insurgants in iraq terrorists or partisans. I would say partisans.
If you have a family do not go to iraq.
If they are forigners that specifically entered Iraq for the chance to kill US troops are they still partisins or are they terrorits
Since when do partisins kill their own w/mass bombs during religious pilgramiges?
Sounds like terrorism to me
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US media hasnt reported it yet - this is from the BBC.
They then pulled the man to the side and put a knife to his neck. The man screamed as he was executed. His killers shouted "Allah is great" before holding what appeared to be a head up to the camera.
US Contract Worker Executed (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3705409.stm)
The parents of this kid have been on the local stations for a week - their son had been 'missing' for a month.
Perhaps the media would be quicker to report this 'abuse' if they had stripped him and took a picture instead.
Praise Allah. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
If they are forigners that specifically entered Iraq for the chance to kill US troops are they still partisins or are they terrorits
Since when do partisins kill their own w/mass bombs during religious pilgramiges?
Sounds like terrorism to me
British and US citizens helped the french during WW2. Their methods were far more civilized, but the end goal is and was the same, the defeat of the enemy. I am not makeing excuses for them, but i would not label them terrorists.
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Already posted.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=116339
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(http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/images/smilies/yawn.gif)
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My bad.
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nice bate tho saur.... just make sure you are first next time :D
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
Now would you call the insurgants in iraq terrorists or partisans. I would say partisans.
Why would you say that?
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Personally, I'm starting to think we should just leave and let these people just live in 12th century chaos as they seem so fond of.
It's days like this that make me want to be an isolationist.
Welcome Brotha, have a seat over here! Turning Iraq over to UN control does'nt sound bad to me. Let them see that it's not just Americans that want them to live free and maybe (yeah, it's a longshot), just maybe they will get their country under control.
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Originally posted by rpm371
Welcome Brotha, have a seat over here! Turning Iraq over to UN control does'nt sound bad to me. Let them see that it's not just Americans that want them to live free and maybe (yeah, it's a longshot), just maybe they will get their country under control.
I don't think the UN wants any part of this mess, do they?
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Originally posted by gofaster
Already posted.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=116339
You realize that you posted a link to the current thread, right?
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Whoa - two threads combined into one - didnt know you could do that. Super-Skuzzy is on the loose. ;)
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Personally, I'm starting to think we should just leave and let these people just live in 12th century chaos as they seem so fond of.
It's days like this that make me want to be an isolationist.
Originally posted by rpm371
Welcome Brotha, have a seat over here! Turning Iraq over to UN control does'nt sound bad to me. Let them see that it's not just Americans that want them to live free and maybe (yeah, it's a longshot), just maybe they will get their country under control.
We tried this, and we got 9/11. Next time it'll be a nuke. No, we NEED to be in their backyard.
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
British and US citizens helped the french during WW2. Their methods were far more civilized, but the end goal is and was the same, the defeat of the enemy. I am not makeing excuses for them, but i would not label them terrorists.
So you are comparing the french resistance during WWII to terrorists that blew up a car bomb at a religious pilgramage killing THERE OWN FELLOW civilians for no other reason than to provide terror?
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The UN did wonders in somalia. Isnt Bosnia area thriving now without further violence? Isnt Korea still considered a war zone? OH YEA the UN has a great track record.
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This is an article, not a video...still very disturbing...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=11&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/egypt_iraq_american_beheaded
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Already reposted by me once.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=116339
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
The UN did wonders in somalia. Isnt Bosnia area thriving now without further violence? Isnt Korea still considered a war zone? OH YEA the UN has a great track record.
Did i say UN?
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and they think this will IMPROVE the way a one of their prisoners is treated or thought of by joe six pack?
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Originally posted by Udie
THere was an Al Queda group in north western Iraq, known about well before the war. Get your head out of the dirt man.
Ahem... I don't believe that Hussein had control of the north at that time. That's Kurd territory, IIRC.
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Pull out the troops and drop some NUKES Im sick of this chit.
****ing savages need to pay a HUGE price for this beheading thing.
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Originally posted by Eagler
and they think this will IMPROVE the way a one of their prisoners is treated or thought of by joe six pack?
They do not care about how the prisoners are treated. They are just trying to point out our hypocracy. My guess is that they are trying to flame more prison abuse. They are the benefactors from those actions. It just spawns more recruits for the insurgents. We need 200k more troops on the ground there asap.
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I'm having doubts if even a face saving pull-out is even possible at this point. Some ugly ****.
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Originally posted by Nash
I'm having doubts if even a face saving pull-out is even possible at this point. Some ugly ****.
What i think is hilarious that people think all the sudden iraq will be an ally of iseral when it(if ever) becomes a democracy. The majority of iraqis still hate jews, and i bet the first guy they vote in will have a hard stance on iseral and the west in general.
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Pull out the troops and drop some NUKES Im sick of this chit.
and
Jesus saves
a little bit controversial , don't you think??
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
What i think is hilarious that people think all the sudden iraq will be an ally of iseral when it(if ever) becomes a democracy. The majority of iraqis still hate jews, and i bet the first guy they vote in will have a hard stance on iseral and the west in general.
It's Israel. LOL.
And yes I bet your right.
We do need 200K more troops and we need to go thrue them like watermelon thrue a goose. leave nothing standing NOTHING.
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Originally posted by stegor
and
a little bit controversial , don't you think??
Even Jesus had his limits.
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Here is the link...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20040511/ts_nm/iraq_usa_beheading_dc
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Thanks...
I posted the same thing, but it got removed...I guess someone up there doesnt like me...:(
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Originally posted by vorticon
when was "war on terror" given as an excuse for iraq?
When it were clear that WMD are so very well hidden all around world
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=11&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/egypt_iraq_american_beheaded
And so the mass exodus of private contractors begins.
Let me be a bit historical now....
WOW people in occupied country kill army man and other people whitch cooperate with occupants..... What a surprise.
Its clear for long time, that US Army have no clue, how to secure Iraq, since their presence only rise sutch incidents.
Its more that clear that US army have no credit over there, nor US goverment.
Im only wondering that civilist are still messing around.
Look, last week were most famous Polish reporter killed on the street and nobody gave a raw over here. Why should this incident get bigger attention?
Post sutch links is not nesessery untill its part of some interesting speach.
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Yahoo has part of the video up on their news section. They "fade to black" as the terrorist pulls out the knife and steps towards Berg.
Two strikes against him - he was an American and he was Jewish.
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I have no need to see that, nor do I have any intention of viewing it.
Would you describe posting the video as sensationalism, or do you think it is germaine to the story?
"The Cod-Damn Germans got nothing to do with it!!"
Seriously, all this video (and I've not seen it but read the description) is going to do is incite more hate an anger on both sides. Kinda like what some other photos are doing right now.
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Originally posted by Eagler
and they think this will IMPROVE the way a one of their prisoners is treated or thought of by joe six pack?
Well, it's not exactly like our treatment of their EPoWs can get any worse, these are desperate men who are going to try anything to break our will. Add to that the thought of these Muslims being forced to pose in homosexual positions, they'd rather die than be taken prisoner. Who wouldn't?
But even worse, what will happen to our soldiers now, if any get captured? Sad to think this but maybe beheading will be the least of all transgressions.
Shock and awe...hearts and minds....whatever...
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Originally posted by gofaster
Two strikes against him - he was an American and he was Jewish.
Took a job in Iraq...Strike three...
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The prisoner abuse by a few US soldiers of Iraqi military prisoners was a sorrority prank compared with this.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119615,00.html
Where was the cries for justice when those four contractors where tortured, killed, burned, then hung up on display? Where was the outrage over the abuses of Iraqi's by Saddam's regime, for that matter? Of course, there are those who will say this is perfectly understandable, as we've offended Arabs/Muslims. Make no mistake...that's pure BS. The abuse of those prisoners in Abu Ghraib was criminal (and those responsible will be brought to justice). However, this type of behavior (beheading a person who's only crime was being an American trying to help Iraqis rebuild their country) is plain evil. By no strech of the imagination is the prisoner abuse on the same moral plain as this these animals that beheaded this man?
Another couple of questions: Do you think the major media will show this video over and over (or even once) like the pictures of Abu Ghraib? Will certain US lawmakers who have been using the prisoner abuse scandal as a political club against the Adminstration demand this video be shown on TV, or even watch it themselves? Where is their outrage? Hiding behind their hipocracy, I suppose.
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sabre
no Arab outcry as it was against US - you know, the most evil empire in the word
just like they will not condem the latest beheading, nor the previous one but do you think they would when they didnt even speak out against 9/11?
and yes, the iraqi prisoners are j the latest dummycrat political football they are tryin to throw for a td to skerry kerry .. you think they really give a rats arse?
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Spin it all you want, this is a serious blunder that isn't going away quickly.
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It's difficult for me to decide whether I'm more disgusted by the act itself or the fact that people on this BBS and elsewhere appear to be attempting to justifying it.
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Originally posted by VOR
It's difficult for me to decide whether I'm more disgusted by the act itself or the fact that people on this BBS and elsewhere appear to be attempting to justifying it.
agreed:(
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Originally posted by Sabre
The prisoner abuse by a few US soldiers of Iraqi military prisoners was a sorrority prank compared with this.
im sorry about it but i have to stop on this one.
We already know that British soldiers did some of those things as well. ONLY few of them.... not many... realy minority....
So today it went official that untill now it is about 100 British soldiers.
Im wondering what will be that lill number in US army
.... may be few .... hundreds
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Lada, why don't you say what you're really thinking?
Are American soldiers (in your opinion) more predisposed to abusive behavior, or am I misunderstanding?
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Originally posted by VOR
Lada, why don't you say what you're really thinking?
Are American soldiers (in your opinion) more predisposed to abusive behavior, or am I misunderstanding?
you really hope that it is a huge number so it will make it easier to justify your dislike of Amercans or America in general. I mean if you don't like this country..just say so.
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Well they brutally beheaded an innocent civilian today (among other shootings of civilian contractors)...
At first I was dismayed with the US military, but now the Iraqi's get no sympathy from me and I've come to the conclusion that your guys over there are probably reacting to a situation we don't comprehend from this distance.
So you can wrap em in bacon and push them out the side of Blackhawks as far as I'm concerned.
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Originally posted by VOR
Lada, why don't you say what you're really thinking?
Are American soldiers (in your opinion) more predisposed to abusive behavior, or am I misunderstanding?
My point was.
We are hearing statement that only few of US soldiers have something to do with this probem. And we also hear that *some* of British soldiers too.
So by today we already know that *British some* is number around 100. Since it is supposed to be only smaller part of problem, im wnodering how many of US soldiers were/are in this thing.
I expect few hundreds of them, whitch is not failure of one man.
Its failure of system in my opinion.
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No! Westy!
This excuse that 'they are more primitive than us, so it's acceptable to behead a prisoner' just does not wash with me. It was cruel and brutal. Believe you me, there are many Arabs who are very sophisticated, where are their voices apart from occasional blogs?
The Arabs are intelligent enough to see that this is a cycle of violence which is just errupting (us losing the propoganda war again).
Now...here's what I think. It's a bit extreme but in the long run it may save many lives. People who commit crimes in other countries ought to subject to the punishment of those countries. So, as an exception (and yes a publicity stunt) try the prison guards under Shariah law and punish them under Shariah law. As for the people who beheaded that poor bloke, try them under Shariah law too - once they are captured. As I understand it, the families of the victim will have a choice of having the perpetrators beheaded or accepting 'blood money'. Whatever the choice, it will show the Arabs that we can abide by their rules.
....or are we too civilised for that?
[edit] guess Westy deleted that post [edit]
Ravs
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Lada, ok guess I *did* misunderstand your meaning. Thanks for setting me straight.
I think you have a legitimate concern, but I also think the answer to your question is no: the system is not broken down or failing.
IMO, of course.
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What is your solution, lada?
Ravs
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Ravells. I agree.
My original post which I edited to make smaller before posting also mentioned many of your points. About how the much of the ME is amazingly civilized and many there were shocked and dismayed at the execution of the reporter in Pakistan as well as the 4 civilians who were killed and burned by a mob in Iraq last month. But I ended up deleting my post because like Udie I'm tired of arguing on these boards. I just didn't delete it fast enough ;)
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Ravells, interesting idea. I know of many instances were American "offenders" were turned over to local authorities in Germany and Korea over the past few years for trial under local law.
The message to the locals is quite clear and obvious.
The message to our boys is equally clear: behave yourself.
The circumstances are drastically different than in Iraq, of course, so I'm not sure if an idea like this would fly...but it's still good food for thought.
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Thank you, both :)
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MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM BACON!
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first.
the prisoners are not at fault for what the others in their country have done.
just as many americans are not at fault for what the sum of a few have done..
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??? my posts are getting moved to other threads?
Ravs
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Originally posted by ravells
What is your solution, lada?
Ravs
Strictly public enquiry, and not things like " What you have seen untill today is nothing compare to stuff on my table" .. something like this said Minister of Defense if im not wrong.
Courts should be public and shoud be hold in Iraq, only to show people, what doest justice mean, instead of promising blah blah blah on TV.
Thats all from my trough on your question Ravs.
We are public, politics are here for us, they are here to server us. They are not our smarter parents whitch will chose what we should and what we shouldnt know. Sutch ways has been used by communist, nazi`s and many other authoritative regimes.
Politics, whitch wants to appear as smart parents are nothing more that useless POS.
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You must forgive some of our American cousins...who are naturally a bit defensive about this. Nevertheless (and I find this a comforting thought) all of the Americans on this BBS are repelled by the prisoner abuses.
The Americans have already said that the first trial will be public. (not a show trial, ho! ho! ho!) but of course it has to be a show trial. My guess is that the guy will plead guilty and there'll be lots of mumbo jumbo procedure and he'll be chucked into prison for awhile. Anyone who believes that 'due procedure' is being followed in this after those pictures broke is being naive.
Nobody is saying that the Americans are our 'smarter parents' although I agree, from time to time there are some arrogant Americans on this BBS. But they are not representative of most of the Americans who I have met who are really decent people.
Every country has its fair share of problems (I believe in yours it's corruption on vast scale) but we have to deal with them.
But let me ask you this. If America was not the military superpower in the world.....who would you choose as the alternative?
Ravs
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There was this guy on CNN last night. Psych Professor at Stanford. Wish I could remember his name.
Amazing story...
In '73 he set up a test of what happens to people in prison. He had a mock one built, and got a bunch of test subjects signed up. He says he did extensive background checks and personality tests on all of them to make sure they were all pretty much decent people.
He divided half into prisoners, the other half into guards. The test was to last 14 days.
He had to pull the plug after 6. "It just got out of hand."
Then he goes on to talk about the deterioration, and it's mindblowing how much it mirrors the acts that took place in Iraq. I mean, amazing simularities. Bags on heads, making the prisoners simulate ghey sex, and on.... the parallels were remarkable. Act for act.
In the post-study debrief, he found that the guards quickly began to see the prisoners as no better than animals. Something you hear from the guards in Iraq.
If I remembered the guy's name I could maybe find the 'zact study on the net. It could shine some light on the episode in Iraq.
I was never of the opinion that this was a "US is evil" situation. More like "the few bad apples"". Now I'm thinking even good apples, given the proper circumstance.
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here you go Nash...
http://www.prisonexp.org/
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I think that's pretty accurate Nash. We are all really adaptable and peer group pressure is a strong thing (q.v. Men in Groups by Lionel Tiger) But people are not going to remember his study. They are going to remember the pictures.
Ravs
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You rule Westy thanks! :aok
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Just watched it...you do rule, Westy :)
Ravs
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Originally posted by ravells
Nobody is saying that the Americans are our 'smarter parents' although I agree, from time to time there are some arrogant Americans on this BBS. But they are not representative of most of the Americans who I have met who are really decent people.
But let me ask you this. If America was not the military superpower in the world.....who would you choose as the alternative?
Ravs
smart parents were related to Politics, not to people on BBS
And to your send question.
I would pick someone who can be neutral.
So we have few hardcore army here.
US, China, Russian ... all crappy options, all are somehow rivals
so i would vote for aliance from their raws and other can join.
It will give Force more credibility and chance that it will not be turned into private diseaster of 1 corrupted subject. They will watch each other and they will find way how to stay in balance.
I guess we have sutch organization
There were some corruption as well few weeks ago. But as we could see, there were no problem with fixing things, coz rivals pushed on fixing in raws of the others..
got my point ?
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sorry, I don't understand 'raws' ... mistranslation?
Ravs
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Originally posted by Nash
.
I was never of the opinion that this was a "US is evil" situation. More like "the few bad apples"". Now I'm thinking even good apples, given the proper circumstance.
Apple is history, PC@x86 rule the world.... just accept it :D
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Originally posted by ravells
sorry, I don't understand 'raws' ... mistranslation?
Ravs
its more likely brain malfunction on my side..... man 2:50 A.M here... im pretty porked, i dont control fingers that well anymore.....
will try to fix it.. probably tomorow
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best to bed then!
take care, lada.
Ravs
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That's what I was thinking, ravells.
Dunno what it is but it sounds cool, especially his earlier use of it: "and nobody gave a raw over here."
Gonna try and incorporate it into my vocab... just to keep people on their toes.
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Guys you are doomed you have no phantasy :D
raw were supposed to be row :D
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You just raw me Nash....no...that sounds kinky....
edit...I've heard of japlish but czechlish? ...edit
Ravs :)
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yeah yeah yeah ... mails are passed to antivirus system in Raw format, hell yeah ... so here we write in rows and not raws :D
... already naked ..
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The polls are open!
Aerosmith: Raw or Rawk?
Janes Addiction: Raw or Rawk?
Vote now and we'll air the video!
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Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!
so you think that lots of bickering people would give a better solution?
Ummmmmmmm I don't think so.
Ravs
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Nash....I'm old. the last Aerosmith song I know the words to is 'love in an elevator'
Your metaphors on me are lost , Luke.
Ravs
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Originally posted by lada
... already naked ..
Definitely raw.
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eek!
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Originally posted by ravells
The last Aerosmith song I know the words to is 'love in an elevator'
Hmm.... yeah me too. I remember the vids with those two chicks though.
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how could we evah forget!!!!
Going.......................d own?????
tee hee
Ravs
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Originally posted by Nash
Gonna try and incorporate it into my vocab... just to keep people on their toes.
"Your metaphors on me are lost , Luke."
"eek!"
Success! Er, succexy! Turns out it works. Thanks Lada! :aok
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enjoy it for the next raw 10 minutes, Nash! ;)
Then this new lovely wordplay will die and our vocab will be the worse off without it :)
Ravs
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I already think the readers of this BBS are the worse of because of it.
My apologies.
Rawk on.
:)
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Goofballs :D
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i think we just broke this thread. :D
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You just RAW man...........you just really RAW!
Raws
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:cool:
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:aok
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lemme see if I can fix it...
THE HORROR!!!
carry on....
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ummm...no..can't think of anything.
Ravs
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sorry Udie.
:confused:
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(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/258_1084325313_kangaroo.jpg)
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This is sillly. I'm going to bed.
Night Nash.
RAW!
Ravs
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(http://www.joelcooner.com/Asian/japanese/open-lion-3469.JPE)
'night!
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Gentlemen, Start your noodleIS!!!
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
Al queda is there now, because we are. Easy targets for them. Saddam had no wmds or ties to terrorists before that. That is why it had nothing to do with the war on terror.
Originally posted by Yeager
Gentlemen, Start your noodleIS!!!
Yup... it's pretty much done for. :D
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WOW talk about a Hijack
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peeps talk about and adore the art of talk smacking. I say smack talking is not an art, its a reflex of the socially impaired and sexually deprived/humiliated.
Thread HiJacking is a true art form if ever there was one!
Yeh jack teh trehd!
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Originally posted by VOR
It's difficult for me to decide whether I'm more disgusted by the act itself or the fact that people on this BBS and elsewhere appear to be attempting to justifying it.
Very well put.