Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: txmx on May 14, 2004, 10:58:01 PM
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Shiite Shrine Damaged in Najaf Fighting
1 hour, 16 minutes ago
By HAMZA HENDAWI, Associated Press Writer
NAJAF, Iraq - American tanks firing shells and heavy machine guns made their deepest incursion yet Friday into this stronghold of a radical cleric. Apparent gunfire slightly damaged one of Shia Islam's holiest shrines, prompting calls for revenge and even suicide attacks.
Latest headlines:
· U.S. Forces Attack Iraqi Holy City
washingtonpost.com - 8 minutes ago
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AP - 17 minutes ago
· Powell: Iraq Pullout Request Not Likely
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Special Coverage
In response, cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's militiamen attacked U.S.-led coalition headquarters in Nasiriyah, trapping international staff and some Italian journalists inside. Explosions and gunfire rocked Karbala, and al-Sadr's top aides threatened to unleash more attacks across the Shiite south and in Baghdad.
"We will fight and defend the holy shrines until our last breath," al-Sadr said in an interview broadcast late Friday by Al-Arabiya television, widely seen throughout the Middle East. "We are not controlling any holy shrine — we are defending these shrines."
Several large explosions and the roar of high-flying aircraft could be heard in Baghdad before dawn Saturday. The U.S. command issued no statement and the cause of the blasts was unknown.
The fighting around Najaf, the most important center of Shiite theology and scholarship, unnerved the country's Shiite majority, including members who have disavowed al-Sadr and worked with U.S. authorities.
Hamid al-Bayati, spokesman for a mainstream Shiite group represented on the U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council, called the fighting a "big mistake" that could inflame sectarian passions. He urged both sides to mediate an end to the standoff.
At least four Iraqis were killed and 26 wounded Friday in Najaf, according to Haidar Raheem Naama, a hospital official. He said most were civilian. One coalition soldier was wounded, U.S. officials said.
At least three militiamen also were killed, and their coffins were brought to the Shrine of Imam Ali for family and friends to pray for their souls.
"America is the enemy of God," fighters shouted.
Explosions and heavy machine-gun fire rocked Najaf for hours, and bands of gunmen carrying assault rifles, rocket-propelled grenades and mortar tubes roamed the city. After a lull, sporadic firing resumed as night fell.
Four holes, each approximately 12 inches long and 8 inches wide, could be seen on the golden dome of the Imam Ali mosque, burial place of Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib, the Prophet Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law and the Shiites' most revered saint.
The mosque, in the middle of Najaf, is about 100 miles south of Baghdad on a high desert plateau overlooking the world's largest cemetery.
Militia members blamed the Americans for the damage to the mosque, but Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the chief U.S. military spokesman in Iraq (news - web sites), said al-Sadr's men were probably responsible: "I can just tell you by the looks of where we were firing and where Muqtada's militia was firing, I would put my money that Muqtada caused it."
During the crackdown on al-Sadr's al-Mahdi Army, U.S. forces have been careful to avoid damaging shrines for fear of enraging Iraq's Shiite majority. They have attacked mosques where insurgents have set up fighting positions.
At a press conference in Baghdad, Kimmitt pointed to a map of Najaf and said a U.S. convoy might have been fired on from the cemetery as it moved near the shrine. If so, those rounds could have hit the shrine, he said.
Kimmitt accused the militia of using religious sites "much like human shields." He said American forces had not initiated the fighting but were responding to attacks by al-Sadr's gunmen.
That did little to assuage the anger of many Shiites in Najaf. By early evening, thousands gathered around the Imam Ali shrine to inspect the damage. Some shook their heads in disbelief. Others mumbled prayers.
"The Americans had better leave Iraq after this," said Jassim Mohammed. Another man, Abu Zahraa al-Daraji, added: "The Americans have crossed a red line."
Al-Sadr's aides called on their followers to rise up against the coalition. His representative in Nasiriyah, Sheik Aws al-Khafaji, threatened attacks on coalition forces there, most of whom are Italians.
After his threat, armed men attacked coalition headquarters in Nasiriyah, about 200 miles southeast of Baghdad. They fired at least five rocket-propelled grenades within a half hour as Italian troops and Filipino security guards fought back.
About 10 coalition staffers, including Italians, Americans and Britons along with 10 drivers and security guards were trapped in the building along with four Italian journalists, coalition officials said.
"It's an inferno," Maria Cuffaro, a journalist for Italy's state-run RAI network, said during a brief live report on Italian television late Friday. "We're all OK, if a bit shaken."
Explosions and gunfire also rocked another Shiite holy city, Karbala, as U.S. soldiers clashed with al-Sadr's militiamen. Shops were closed and residents stayed off the streets.
In Baghdad, aides to al-Sadr urged followers in Sadr City to travel to Najaf to reinforce the militia. Al-Sadr's representative in the southern city of Basra, Sheik Abdul-Sattar al-Bahadli, said he would form suicide squads to carry out attacks on coalition forces and urged residents to register for the squads starting Saturday.
And in the southern city of Amarah, al-Sadr aide Farqad al-Mousawi warned Iraqi police and civil defense corps members that they risked assassination if they helped U.S. soldiers fight al-Sadr's militia.
Japan's Kyodo News service reported shooting and an explosion late Friday in Samawah, a southern city where Japanese and Dutch troops are based. The shooting started after armed, masked al-Sadr supporters began sealing off downtown streets. One Iraqi security officer was killed, Kyodo said.
Al-Sadr launched an uprising against the coalition last month after U.S. officials announced he was wanted for the April 2003 murder of a cleric in Najaf. He lacks the spiritual stature of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Husseini al-Sistani, and his confrontational tactics have exasperated moderate Shiites.
However, al-Sadr commands the support of thousands of mainly poor, urban Shiites who admire his father, a grand ayatollah who was killed by Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s agents. Al-Sadr has also capitalized on hostility toward the coalition following revelations of abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. soldiers.
Despite the fighting, al-Sadr delivered a sermon at Friday prayers in Kufa, another holy city that lies six miles to the northeast of Najaf, as he has for the past four Fridays.
Al-Sadr described President Bush (news - web sites) and British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites) as "the heads of tyranny" and accused them of ignoring the suffering of Iraqis in coalition prisons while drawing attention to what he described as the "fabricated" case of Nicholas Berg, an American civilian who was beheaded by militants.
In other developments:
_ The U.S. Army announced criminal charges, including adultery, maltreatment of detainees and committing indecent acts, against Military Police Cpl. Charles A. Graner in the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal. He will be arraigned May 20. Three other military police face charges in the scandal.
_ The United States freed 293 Iraqi detainees from Abu Ghraib. The coalition periodically releases detainees from the prison, which now holds more than 3,000 prisoners.
_ A U.S. military supply convoy was attacked 25 miles north of Baghdad and one fuel tanker was destroyed. Iraqi youths danced and cheered around the burning vehicle as they displayed family photos, presumably the driver's.
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Oops.
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"America is the enemy of God," fighters shouted.
This kind of statement always gets a good laugh out of me. Seems like god blessed his enemy pretty generously.
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The mosque, in the middle of Najaf, is about 100 miles south of Baghdad on a high desert plateau overlooking the world's largest cemetery.
LOL how Ironic.
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You would think that maybe they would get the idea that lopping off the head of an innocent American was maybe not a good idea.
But then again they aint that smart.
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Well maybe you'll get idea that attacking/occupying an arab country was not a good idea after all.
or maybe not :)
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Sure they want us to attack the holy sites, thats why they are fighting from them. Destroy the holy sites, what the hell.
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How come we don't say "the holy city of New York"?
After all, St. Patrick's Cathedral is there and all.
"On Sept. 11, Islamic nutbags attacked the holy city of New York......."
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Is this an actual sincere display of indignation?
Or are ya just letting some steam off?
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Originally posted by Nash
Is this an actual sincere display of indignation?
Or are ya just letting some steam off?
I take it you are opposed to blowing up the mosques?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I take it you are opposed to blowing up the mosques?
Not really.
How do you feel about it, pal?
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Iraq needs killshooter.
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Originally posted by Nash
Not really.
How do you feel about it, pal?
I'd prefer if they were just used for prayer, it would make everything much much simpler in a very big way...
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Are you talking to me? Are you talking to ME?
I'm just wondering.
What makes a city a "holy city"?
I mean, to hear the US media, about half the cities in Iraq are "holy cities".
Do you just need a big famous church, or what?
I'm actually a devout twine-ist and I have to admit I do refer to "the holy town of Cawker City" when I explain my religion to seekers after truth.
Cawker being the home of the world's largest ball of twine and all.
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And when you do have a "holy city"...... is all of it "holy"? Even the sewers? Or just parts of it like the churches?
Do people get to walk on "holy streets" or do the faithful levitate so as not to soil the holy paths?
Just curious.
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Maybe the media calls a city "holy" if the residents deem it such.
Whether it actually is or not, is up for debate.
But it hardly matters, does it?
If the folks in these holy cities get their panties in a bunch, then that's pretty much the entire issue. Or or we trying to win the hearts and minds of our OWN people now?
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So if I could get a vocal bunch of KC residents to start beeching to the networks that KC was the "Holy City of BBQ" then they would start referring to us a such?
Man, that'd be GREAT! What a boost for the economy to be known as the "Mecca of BBQ!" (I've been thinking of switching churches from twine-ism to worshiping the BBQ Baby Back Rib Diety. Twine-ism seems to be stringing me along.)
Anway, that's a fabulous idea. Be known across the entire world as the "Holy City of BBQ" and hold be BBQ religious festivals that will get 15 seconds of fame on news around the world. Think of it: KC BBQ on BBC!
What a way to influence public opinion and all for no cost at all. I mean it really doesn't mean anything at all, right? But it would be a great boon for us and make people think the whole city, even the red light district or the downtown areas where people get murdered in drug deals is somehow beyond reproach by mere mortals.
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Originally posted by Toad
And when you do have a "holy city"...... is all of it "holy"? Even the sewers? Or just parts of it like the churches?
Do people get to walk on "holy streets" or do the faithful levitate so as not to soil the holy paths?
Just curious.
I hope that your question is rhetorical. The only thing that makes a city a holey city is when we shoot it. Seriously Islam is full of holy crap. It's ok for them to shoot each other all to pieces. it's ok for them to explode all those buddhist holy places in afganistan. but wachoooooooow if you touch this week's latest holy place. Carpet bombing seems very reasonable at this juncture.
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What's your point Toad?
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Why, exactly the same as yours Nash!
What a coincidence!
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I'd prefer if they were just used for prayer, it would make everything much much simpler in a very big way...
you're really gonna have to stop this Grun. I can't have you sharing the same view on things as me, it's really starting to effect my image. :p
seriously though I gotta agree. if these places are holy to them, maybe they shouldn't draw fire to them.
my wife & kids are sacred to me, you won't find me ducking behind them if the shooting starts over here.
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This holy city thing is why this Iraq sitation is taking on a Vietnam-like flavour IMHO. Back then it was a big no-no to hit certain targets because of possible civilian casualties etc. So...first thing Old Uncle Ho did was move all of his imporatnt munitions etc into those exact areas. Same in this situation, except the no-go areas are Mosques. Fisrt thing the militias do is move in there and set-up shop. Then, when the US troops march in they scream that they have been "violated".
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Originally posted by Toad
"On Sept. 11, Islamic nutbags attacked the holy city of New York......."
LOL im glad you realize to live in theocratic country :D
I would never imagine to see you degrade so low
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
my wife & kids are sacred to me, you won't find me ducking behind them if the shooting starts over here.
Wow im impressed by your racionality.
big , you just said, how could average Iraqi(every normal person) think in sutch situation.
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Destroy the holy sites if they are being used for military purposes.
Whether its right or wrong...who cares.
You know, we wont be over there nearly as long as most people think. We should take advantage of being there now and do as much damage "to appropriate military-insurgent personel and facilities" as is humanly possible.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Destroy the holy sites if they are being used for military purposes.
Whether its right or wrong...who cares.
Since CIA had some offices in WTC, you must be glad about their destruction
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Vote Bush/Chenny '04 because... Whether its right or wrong...who cares.
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Haven't heard anyone call them the "holy WTC towers" yet Orel.
It's St. Patrick's Cathedral that makes NYC holy. Sacred, especially to the Irish.....
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Originally posted by Toad
"On Sept. 11, Islamic nutbags attacked the holy city of New York......."
ummm ?
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Originally posted by Toad
And when you do have a "holy city"...... is all of it "holy"? Even the sewers? Or just parts of it like the churches?
Do people get to walk on "holy streets" or do the faithful levitate so as not to soil the holy paths?
Just curious.
Lots of sewers and tunnels would make a city very holy...or is that holey?
Ravs.
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They are just being they cowardly terds they are!
Its like the little guy that picks a fight with ya then goes and hides behind his big friends LOL.
If they are and they are by the way using there "holy sites" to sore weapons and fight from then too freekin bad it just became another building and it must go BOOM!
Sorry Omar no where else to hide now maybe you will have to fight like a man If that Is possible for you :rofl
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I found a St Patricks medal on my lawn. Is my yard a holy site?
Is this a sign?
As for the topic.
Bah. Fear not. It's just one or two "outsiders" being naughty and disruptive.
Everyone knows all of the Iraqi people are overjoyed with thier new found liberation and freedoms. The whole of thier society has been working hard and harmoniously in preparation for the June transition to democracy! What a glorious time there will be in old Baghdadtown come two or three weeks!
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Lol! Westy!
There will be dancing in the streets.
Ravs
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im not sure about dancing but it will be interesting how much of them will brink tjeir family's Ak :D