Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Dowding on November 18, 2000, 07:12:00 AM
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First of all, I'm not accusing anyone of open racism and I'm not going to name names, but...
Earlier today I was in the MA, and there were a couple of Japanese lads speaking to each other in Japanese (as you might expect). Then xxxxxx says something like:
"can you speak japanese in private pls"
I'm not trying to take the moral high ground, but several of us thought this was pretty shoddy, and when challenged, said pilot replied that he wanted to keep such chatter off channel 1. He also said he felt the same about Swedish, German and French. I don't doubt he dislikes 'chatter' in English, but I have never seen him complain about it when I've been online.
This was made worse when the japanese guy actually apologised and went to a private channel!!
Another dimension to this is that foreign players are more likely to be intimidated by such a request, and believe that they are actually doing something wrong. Imagine if you spoke English as a second language and were told to only talk in your native tongue in private. You might not know how to argue and be understood.
I personally feel this is out of order, and although most of us don't mind other languages being used within AH, those that have a problem shouldn't be playing a game that has a multi-national player base (even though English is the lingua franca).
PS. I'm not trying to start a flame war, just bringing the issue to the attention of the community (although I don't know if this has been discussed before). (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Yep. I don't see anywhere in the rules where it says we have to speak English. If somebody's language is annoying, that's what the squelch command is for.
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I was there when this occured and feel very much the same way. And what bothered me the most was the gentleman feeling the need to apologize for speaking in his native language. I apologize to you sir for the ignorance of some, channel 1 is NOT the English speaking channel!
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It's jeuvinile and crass. I just tell idiots who talk like that (telling folks to speak in English) to shut the hell up.
-Westy
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Hey guys, I am beginning to think that maybe you are possibly not ugly Americans (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
<S!>
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}
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Well... i'm glad to read this. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Days ago it happens the some with me and other italian guys.
We were speaking italian (only for some minutes) on ch 1 (we are in Rooks and Knights, we couldnt make it in any other way), when s/one told us to stop it cause "ch1 is only English speaking". (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/confused.gif)
Not well knowing the etiquette, and not wanting to polemize we stopped and excused.
Needless to say i remained badly surprisefor the tone used, in which i felt a bit of haughtiness; as you say ,though english is a universal language, this is a game that combine people from all over the world and a little bit of resilience would be appreciate (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Stefano "Nibbio"
4°Stormo CT "F.Baracca"
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Who ever it was who said that Ch 1 was for english only should come to New York and live here for a year. I'm sure by then he would get use to the different races and cultures.People wan't to get a job done when playing this game, I know I do. If it so happens they have to speak there native tongue then so be it.
I was playing in the Med league a couple of weeks ago and was on RW with some guys from Spain. I had to ask what country they were from not because I didn't like it, but because I couldn't make out the accent or the Language because of the Wilco. They told me were they were from and apologized for the chatter. I told them why I was curious and not at all offended.After they were done talking about the plan for the scenario they spoke english to me and typed it in the buffer incase I didn't understand there English. These guys are just trying to get a job done also,and if that means they have to speak there Language doing it, its fine with me.
Remmember they go thru the same thing when listening to us on Wilco or on the boards but that doesn't stop them from playing the game. <S> to all abroad
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NHFoxtro
-XO-NightHawks
(http://heathblair.tripod.com/nhcouger.gif)
NightHawks "WE BAD"
[This message has been edited by NHFoxtro (edited 11-18-2000).]
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Well in my opinnion (and I'm finnish)
the international nature of the game calls for the use of an international language i.e. english. If all players would start chatting on ch1 on their native languages .. well most of the rest wouldnt be able to understand a thing. If some of american players feel guilty about their native language being the most commonly used one in international discussions, its their problem.
So, as far as I care, all Japanese Chinese Portuguese FINNISH and maybe even Swedish players can well keep their discussions on private channels. I wont mind if people use the main channel with the language that the majority of people can actually understand.
Its not about being narrow minded, just keeping it practical for all.
Feel free to flame.. I've been managing international chat channels (100+ users on irc)enough years to say this. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Cheers!
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I kinda have to agree with sid on this, in no way to be racist or anything but seeing as how English (bad english too) is a predominate language it would seem most useful to have seperate channels for seperate languages, like TV i mean you never watch one channel and it has 5 different languages randomly saying things. I know some people will get all pissed that someone DARES to ask anyone to do ANYTHING even though its just for the sake of making things simpler and easyer to understand for everyone, besides with some of the tard typing out here its hard enough to figure out what is being said anyway. but i know this will not happen just bcause all of these folks who have the "i dont care if it makes things easyer i can do whatever i want and you have no right to tell me otherwise" mantality.
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Welp, the fact is, until HTC puts an English requirement for the use of channel 1 in their terms of service, their customers have every right to speak Spanish, German, Itallian, Japanese, Swahili, or whatever language they want on Channel 1. HTC manages AH and how it functions as an international chat server, not any player. I hope someone pointed this out to the complainer and those japanese customers at the time?
Gordo
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Maybe we could ask them to move to the back of the bus so we can get on and off easier?
What utter rubbish that English be the master language and anyone else can make things easier for us by taking thier language to another channel.
That attitude is disgustful and is absolutely assinine.
I (and I don't think I'm in the minority here either) LIKE sharing my online experience with the rather large international community in Aces High and I enjoy participating with others from all over the world, be it on channel one, two or a private channel.
If someone does not like another language in thier radio buffer then log off, do us all a favour by performing a C: format and join up with the local chapter of whatever biggot organisation there is in your neighborhood. Just spare the rest of us from your problem.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 11-18-2000).]
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If I'm speaking spanish in channel 1 and some idjit tells me to type in english I'll just say 'vete al carajo maricon' and procceed with my chatter.
If he dont like it he can complain to HT. HT then can either put him straight, or tell me to please speak english only; wich my reply will be to press the QUIT button on my account managment.
I want to see this person going to New York City and listening to all the different languages; and then going to the local embassy to complain about it so they can fine those involved.
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As long as we have the option to squelch ch 1 or any indiviual player then I simply can't agree with your view Sid. As adults I hope that we can agree to disagree...no personal flame intended sir (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Channel one is the global channel.
Do not make the mistake of thinking any one person or language owns channel one.
Speak freely, listen freely and if you dont like it either live with it or squelch channel one.
Yeager
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Apparently, we have people who have mastered 2 languages. And one dumb ass, who is jealous
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Animal, your response looks the most civilized one and the least "animal" of this thread.
Let the other animals bark in english, as they can't do in another language, the more of them.
They (only those who want own ch.1 for english only), may have the dollars but not the culture.
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I like the other languages on Channel 1, It gives another depth of realism to this Sim.
My hairs Stand up when we "intercept" the Italian transmissions, My eyes scan the skies for them damn Macci's.
This Was a "World" War! The German and japanese transmissions we intercept are immediately turned over to INTEL. Most times INTEL cracks the code fast enought for our team to scrammble and intercept. Finding myself deep into German territory alone, constantly scanning the skies for enemy, the silence is interupted with Russian transmissions. Althou i don't understand the language , it's alittle comforting that they are on the same team. I have to give a <S> to our boys down at INTEL for cracking the codes and shifting the War in our favor. Althou INTEL still hasn't cracked Vulcanism,Bashism,NathBDPese,and the Sheepherders language Westyese, they promise to work around the clock until these hardest of languages can be understood.
NUTTZ
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being able to learn English, German, Japanese, Italian & Spanish is ONE of the reasons I play this game...
Ah Godferdekke ! da kan toch nie hoor ! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Saw
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 11-18-2000).]
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I don't really care what language it is, but sooner or later if players start "chatting" on CH 1 I often get irritated by it.
Chatting IMO it is a very crucial function of AH, but during combat all it does is choke up the text buffer.
I simply squelch those players and continue on my own happy way wondering why they don't go to a private channel.
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"Best is the trash talk. Severly and viciously going after your enemies, their mothers, and their shabby sheep."
StSanta
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The way I see it, this is what channel 1 is _for_, and if you don't like it, squelch. I do get annoyed if people shut everyone else out on the country channel by speaking some other language, as this is usually information I'd find useful, like 6 calls, where we're attacking, field status etc.
But like several people stated, there's no policy here, and I don't think there will be, so it's up to each and every one of us what language we want to speak. I don't whine about HO's in the game (I don't take em) and I don't whine about language when flying either.
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Rickenbacker (Ricken)
-ISAF-
the Independent Swedish Air Force
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Aces High is not an American game. Aces High is an international game and anyone dumb enough to think that English (only) should be spoken should be squelched by the entire community. He can go talk to his dog. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
AKcurly
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You mean I can't say "Muerre Perro !" on channel 1 anymore ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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no st.santa creamo is definately ugly.
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If you don't like what someone is saying.. squelch them.
Works for the bellybutton who thought that only English should be spoken on Ch 1 and for the originator of this thread who didn't like what that person was saying.
AKDejaVu
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"people are afraid of things they cannot understand"
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Originally posted by Dowding:
"can you speak japanese in private pls"
Yup. Ignore it. I enjoy watching foreign languages scroll across the screen and admire the way they have been able to master two languages. These individuals add a great dimension to the arena. I wish there were more Germans online so I could join a German only speaking channel just to practice "meine deutsche Sprache".
My ability with German pales in comparison to some of those who are fluent in both English and their native language.
<S> to all of those who speak English second while on ch. 1. Dont stop.
And if some of you know of a German channel, let me know. I would love to sit in sometime and see how much I can understand.
Aces High ist eine MischenSchussel der Kulture. Ich würde lieben, Deutsch zu sprechen und Flugzeuge Luftwaffe gleichzeitig zu fliegen.
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-Ding
33rd Strike Group www.33rd.org (http://www.33rd.org)
(http://home.cox.rr.com/mfritzlen/images/33rd2.gif)
[This message has been edited by Dingy (edited 11-18-2000).]
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Read my erlier post and you will see that I am EXACTLY right, I said that having seperate channels for different languages would make it more efficent and easy for EVERYONE but nobody would ever do it cause they will have the following mantality.
" i dont care if it makes things easy or not, you have no right to tell me what language to speak!, ill say whatever I want, in whatever language I want!"
this is why things will never progress very far in this area of things, because people would rather abuse thair rights than to conform to something that benifits all.
I think is very childish to do something just because you can, not doing something because you should.
And that is why things will never be perfect, because some people would rather abuse their rights than to be considerate to all and lend a hand.... rather sad I think.
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On a further note..
I think that having seperate channnels for differnet languages i a VERY valid IDEA and that it makes PERFECT sense to have everyone who speaks english to be on one chaneel french on another and so on.. it IS NOT racist it is not RUDE it is practical and it makes it easyer to communicate between EVERYONE, with all the abbreviations and jargon associated with this game having to weed through all the posts to find what ever language(s) you speak will just make things more uncomfortible and teidous. Of course there is no law saying that channel 1 is reseved for English only so by all means speak any language you want so what if it make thing more difficult so what its your right and thats what matters......isnt it?
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"We are americans! Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated!"
Get real. If you can't stand to not understand what they're saying, then learn the language.
-SW
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Originally posted by TheWobble:
On a further note..
I think that having seperate channnels for differnet languages i a VERY valid IDEA and that it makes PERFECT sense to have everyone who speaks english to be on one chaneel french on another and so on.. it IS NOT racist it is not RUDE it is practical and it makes it easyer to communicate between EVERYONE, with all the abbreviations and jargon associated with this game having to weed through all the posts to find what ever language(s) you speak will just make things more uncomfortible and teidous. Of course there is no law saying that channel 1 is reseved for English only so by all means speak any language you want so what if it make thing more difficult so what its your right and thats what matters......isnt it?
Demanding that everyone speak English in the common channels not racist but it is prejudiced. Your argument that it just confuses things doesnt make any sense since if you dont understand them on whatever channel they are speaking on, you arent going to even hear them if they are on another channel. And if your argument is that seeing their text confuses you, then squelch them. No more confusion.
Rediculous.
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-Ding
33rd Strike Group www.33rd.org (http://www.33rd.org)
(http://home.cox.rr.com/mfritzlen/images/33rd2.gif)
[This message has been edited by Dingy (edited 11-19-2000).]
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Originally posted by TheWobble:
And that is why things will never be perfect, because some people would rather abuse their rights than to be considerate to all and lend a hand.... rather sad I think.
Perfect???
If everyone were to conform to some way of action, there would never be any innovation. We've seen how far conformity got communism.
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-Ding
33rd Strike Group www.33rd.org (http://www.33rd.org)
(http://home.cox.rr.com/mfritzlen/images/33rd2.gif)
[This message has been edited by Dingy (edited 11-19-2000).]
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Seems to me that one general principle being overlooked is that, as a basic matter of courtesy, private conversations should be conducted on private channels. This is regardless of what language the conversation is in. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Of course the use of the term "courtesy" with respect to Channel 1 is laughable. There are too many jabbering idiots on channel 1 calling each other "dweebs" for various reasons, so I squelch it. That's a shame, as the channel would be useful for game-related discussions such as "good fight" and "good kill". But I notice such sportsmanship is not the norm in AH anyways. Too bad.
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No but you can say "Muere perro de mierda hijo de la gran puta!" which is Peruvian Spanish or you can give it a distinct Caribbean flavor by utilizing Animal's Puerto Rican "Vete al carajo, Maricon" For me being fortunate enough to be completely bi-lingual (not bi just lingual, LOL), I enjoy seeing other languages in the buffer and trying to figure out what they're saying. Keep it up, it adds to the game in my book. For those that may be looking for a variation to WTF? as your stock expression when being killed try my Puerto Rican grandfather's favorite CARAJO!
Beeg
Originally posted by Snoopi:
You mean I can't say "Muerre Perro !" on channel 1 anymore ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Duz this here meen I kan speek muh native alerbammer tung? woooo doogy granny! fry up them gizzurds, we got sum selebratin 2 doo!
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Hb don't forget our goose step lesson @ 10:00 am. We don't want to be late!!!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Dingy,
I am not against derision in the sake of progress, however I think it would be best to take the cue from the entertainment industry. they put different languages on different channels NOT because they are predjuced, NOT because they want everyone to speak one language, NOT because they think any 1 language is superior to all, they do it for the sole purpose of simplicity and practicality, people keep tying to make this into a issue of race/language/nationality. it is anything but. it is simply an issue of efficency, and dont ever accuse Americans of being language/nationality/race.
FACT: there are more different cultures and different languages spoken in the USA than any other country in the world.
FACT: The United states has NO offical language (look it up no lie).
FACT: America was created by all differnet cultures, to deny our diversity is to deny what makes this country so wonderful.
FACT: the very fabric of this country is woven of hundreds of different cultures and that is the thing to be most proud of.
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The reason for multiple channels with different languages is simple: There are more americans that speak and understand english.
The internet knows no language, it is owned by no country. Aces High is owned by HTC, American based but has no regulations on use of foreign(to america) languages.
At 5AM Easten Time, you will find the majority speaks another language other than english. Who are we to tell them "Use a different channel for your language"? You won't reach a majority rules on forcing a group of 3-8 people conversing in their native tongue to move their conversation to another channel. Do they ask you to stop using english on channel 1?
If you want to move languages onto different channels, then lets go ahead and create a "whine&smack talk" channel... maybe that's what channel 1 should be called from now on. the "english whine & smack" language, afterall the majority of whining and starting sh*t comes from native english speakers..........
-SW
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Alright, I give up. I guess I was mistaken to think that people would actually work together to sort out the language issue but i can tell that what is most important to you all is the fact you can speak whatever you want however you want and to you that is what is important to you, You would rather abuse a freedom for the sake of it, regardless of weather it is for good or not. Guess the whole idea of doing what makes things better is far less important that doing things because you can. This is my final post on this thread, i will never get through to you folks and after reading alot of these post i dont really care to anyway.
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"Work togther"? Or were you trying herd the "non conformists" into thier own camps against thier will.
Wobble, after reading beocming involved in this topic and seeing your biggoted point of view I'm not sure we (you and I) have any need to communicate any further here in AH in the future.
-Westy
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"I squelch it" right on ED , have been doing that for about a two weeks now and don't miss it one damn bit . I fact I have my Game Commander set to .squelch 1 when I tell it "shut up" hehe (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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air_rules = Play fair ....Don't worry about points......Keep a sense of humor......Drink Jim Beam......and don't let the fediddlein cat walk on the keyboard.......!!!
(http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/1589/temp/airsprogif.gif)
[This message has been edited by airspro (edited 11-19-2000).]
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Originally posted by TheWobble:
Alright, I give up.
Fantastic!
I guess I was mistaken to think that people would actually work together to sort out the language issue but i can tell that what is most important to you all is the fact you can speak whatever you want however you want and to you that is what is important to you, You would rather abuse a freedom for the sake of it, regardless of weather it is for good or not.
Are you really ths ignorant?? You claim that speaking in your native tongue is an abuse of a freedom, yet you are dictating that they separate themselves from the rest of the community and cloister themselves in a private channel because it "confuses" the majority (FACT: The majority of the community have said this doesnt bother them in the least).
While you are quoting facts Wobble, lemme add one more thing. Are you using some other language other than English in these posts? You used the word "weather" in the context of deciding between one choice or other. "Weather" is what goes on outside...raining, snowing, hot or cold. I think you wanted the word "whether". I wonder how many of our European friends would have gotten that right. Prolly alot.
If this is your new and improved English, however, take it to another channel (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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-Ding
33rd Strike Group www.33rd.org (http://www.33rd.org)
(http://home.cox.rr.com/mfritzlen/images/33rd2.gif)
[This message has been edited by Dingy (edited 11-19-2000).]
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Well... I got no problem with any language being spoken on one but... If they are talking to me in anything other than english they are wasting their breath. In real life I have thrown crews off of jobs because no one could speak english and they could not understand my orders or explain themselves. How they speak amongst themselves is not my concern.
If AH goes to another language predominantly or if I join a foriegn sim that is mostly another language then I will either learn that language or I will live with the fact that I can't communicate. I would probly use private for speaking to another english speaker but tough toejam if I don't.
lazs
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I deliver my point of view addressing that we could all get along with different languages, and simply suggest a few ways I would go about it. Yea sure you can go and speak whatever the hell language you want! go ahead its your right, thats all that matters you have the right to do whatever you want here, if someone thinks hey maby if we did this like this, things would be easyer and flow better, BUT WAIT!! you cant tell me what to do! So what if it has good intentions I dont care! like it or not ill do whatever i want for the sole purpose that I can.
I make suggestions on what I would do i share my opinon with you and you dont like it so You call me an ignorant bigott? well i guess bashing someone just because they dont share your opinion is your way. and that make YOU the bigots you ignorant amazinhunks. this thread has gone to hell and i hope it takes you with it.
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TheWobble - I've read your posts and you seem to be making the following points:
1) Foreign language appearing on channel 1 is confusing.
2) We should have separate channels for different languages, following the example of TV.
Alright,
How can you possibly find foreign language confusing? I myself speak no Japanese and when I see it I ignore it. You seem to imply that the standard of English is so bad on channel 1 that people will spend time trying to decypher Japanese, mistaking it for badly written English. Yeah right.
Also, the colours of the various channels are not selected by accident. The eye is most responsive to the colour green (550 nm). To me I have to make an effort to read the grey of channel 1, where as channel 2 stands out a mile. The squadron channel (red) also is far more obvious to the eye than grey.
I personally don't buy the argument that foreign language detracts from the gameplay or 'clutters' up channel 1.
TheWobble, as far as I know you're new to Aces High and I welcome you to this great sim (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). But I've never seen you or anyone else complain about normal, inoffensive chatter in English on channel 1. Yet the player that started all this was prepared to go out of his way (by actually asking) to remove Japanese from the channel. Maybe he was playing on the fact that a Japanese guy (who spoke only a little English) would not refuse and start an argument. It is prejudicial treatment, plain and simple.
To everyone who replied - it's good to see that most of us are appreciative of the non-English speakers and their right to use channel 1 as they wish. <S> to you all. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 11-19-2000).]
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Wobble, I disagree with your ideas, but I haven't seen anything in your posts that would lead me to call you a bigot or prejudiced. Presumptuous in thinking players have a right to control the in-game communications of other players? Probably. But prejudiced? Nah.
The best advice I can give is to ignore people who would rather speculate about your character than address your ideas on their merits (or lack thereof).
Gordo
[This message has been edited by Lance (edited 11-19-2000).]
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I'm with gordo.
I'll add that I don't agree with seperate channels, but I don't think wobble is as far off in right field as some elude too. At least the guy has balls enough to say what he thinks, not feel out the crowd, and then give an opinion based on that as some seem to have done here.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I don't think anyone was flaming him, just adding a little heat. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
No hard feelings here.
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That's B.S. No rules show that English is the mandantory language!
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ever read those conversations closely? they're actually kinda funny if you don't understand the language, it looks like this:
yada yada yada el n1k. yada yada yada el goon. yada yada yada el parachuto. yada yada yada le creamo! aye yi yi (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by mrfish:
ever read those conversations closely? they're actually kinda funny if you don't understand the language, it looks like this:
yada yada yada el n1k. yada yada yada el goon. yada yada yada el parachuto. yada yada yada le creamo! aye yi yi (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
ROFLOL !
Thank you for making me spit coke on the screen, needed it today (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Originally posted by mrfish:
ever read those conversations closely? they're actually kinda funny if you don't understand the language, it looks like this:
yada yada yada el n1k. yada yada yada el goon. yada yada yada el parachuto. yada yada yada le creamo! aye yi yi (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Going to have to change my christmas list. Need new monitor now. These things don't cotton to fluids very well.
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Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site (http://home.earthlink.net/~bkapache)
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Jesus people - what the hell are you saying? That being polite is a non-PC, racist, bigoted etc? What kind of c**p is that?
It is simply impolite to speak in a group of people using a language no-one else understands. There's absolutely nothing "American" in it, nothing racist or any other stuff mentioned by some in this thread.
Channel 1 is not an English speaking channel - why should it be? It's a common channel, for everyone to use.
It's just so happens that the majority of people on the net have common language - English. You want yourself understood - speak English (spot the difference btw - it's English, not American. As spoken in lots of countries around the world by millions of people.
"Intolerance"? No pal, the topic should be "ignorance", "lack of decent help file that explains the basic rules", "let's blaim Americans for everything - everyone else seems to be doing it, why not add some more?"
Those Japaneese guys may have been new to AH and <S> to them for understanding the situation and moving their conversation to a private channel. The guy who asked them could probably have asked in a nicer manner and in private. Many don't realise who reads what they type anyway...
Spanish and other oscenities "bravely" typed behind the safety of one's screen, obviously add so much to "cultural" and "multinational" aspects of AH... Sad. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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lynx
13 Sqn RAF
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Very funny stuff Mr. fish! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Calm down lynx. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Who said anything about 'blaming Americans'? Most of the people who have posted here are American, for crissakes.
The point of my original post was that the guy in question complained about 'chatter' in Japanese, but I've never heard him complain about chatter in English. I personally couldn't see why it is a problem if other languages are written in AH.
It is simply impolite to speak in a group of people using a language no-one else understands.
Oh sure, if we are all sat in a circle taking afternoon tea. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) But we're not, we're all engaged in doing something else, i.e. playing the game. I don't consider it impolite in the slightest.
Spanish and other oscenities "bravely" typed behind the safety of one's screen, obviously add so much to "cultural" and "multinational" aspects of AH... Sad.
Eh? What are you talking about, pal?
"lack of decent help file that explains the basic rules"
I'm sorry, have I missed something? I know there are conventions for playing the game, but I didn't think one of them was that 'English must be written at all times'. Who would want such a stupid rule like that anyway?
BTW, the Japanese blokes weren't newbies either.
You want yourself understood - speak English...
I'm sure they knew that, as do the other non-English speaking pilots. But maybe, just maybe, they were just chatting, and such, their comments would have been largely irrelevant to the rest of us on. Why should two guys speak in broken English to each other, when they have a common language through which they could communicate in a fraction of the time?
[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 11-20-2000).]
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"yada yada yada el n1k. yada yada yada el goon. yada yada yada el parachuto. yada yada yada le creamo! aye yi yi "
Lol MrFish (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
but would you be so kind and take that post and put it up on a different part f the UBB board. this is the *English Only* Aces High General Discussion" forumn and it is most innappropriate for it to be here.
-Westy
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Se pueden ir todos a cagarse en su madre y yo hablo el maldito idioma que me salga de la jodona gana ! That's it
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Glasses---I may have 4 eyes ,but you only have one wing.
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Begeerite: (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Lynx:
I never type obcenities at any time.
Except maybe "Die you opportunist <blank>"
or "Die, you Dog !"
That is only when I am joking with someone I have "flown" with.
In the majority of cases, I think that is what happens. Jokes not serious insults.
Besides..If someone wanted to insult someone else, would it not "help" if they understood ?
In regards to the topic:
If I have to talk to a friend, who has difficulty translating, while flying for different "countries", why should I not be polite and talk to him in his native tongue ?
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Originally posted by mrfish:
ever read those conversations closely? they're actually kinda funny if you don't understand the language, it looks like this:
yada yada yada el n1k. yada yada yada el goon. yada yada yada el parachuto. yada yada yada le creamo! aye yi yi (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
LOL! I think these kind of posts are enough to support different languages on ch 1. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I am spanish, and quite fluent in English. I try to speak English on ch 1 as much as I can. Sometimes It is just impossible. You have a new guy who can not speak english asking in ch 1 how does he take off. How do you explain him anything, but in his own language?.
I think is a matter of tolerance. Being that on the side of both, on the only English talking people, I can't see much of a problem seeing some text not in English, and on the other language talking people, moving to another channel if chatting takes too long/deep. Banning? Splitting channels? no, thanks.
Cheers,
Pepe
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Frankly, I don't care of the non-english cha1 users it add to the exotism of the comunauty and it help me to admit that we don't all speak french on earth (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BTW writing Japanese in the ch1 is not the strangest experience I've got ...
Last sunday I've tunned RW to my standard squad channel ... as usual ...but not at an usual time ... and if reading Japanese is strange HEARING Japanese it's quite disturbing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) Muhahah (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Well well well.. quite an interesting thread this has become.. And I'm happy to see I'm not alone with my opinnion here.
Its just that I've spent endless hours in different multi-national enviroments and for me its absolutely clear that people should TRY to keep the talk in public channels understandable. I'm not saying it should be the law of AH (although it WAS the law on my channels back then, and the policy was accepted by everyone joining the channel - however thats different since irc is free for everyone.)
In Aces High the situation is very different due to the fact that we all are paying customers and no-one of us has the right to say what the other one should do. I just have to thank players like Wobble for their perspective on this matter, stressing the practical. It is obvious anyhow that most of the people chatting with strange languages on the main channel are doing it simply because theyre ignorant of the fact that the majority of the other players would prefer to understand what theyre saying on their screens. For me the attitude of many posters here seems to be the one of a 'collective congience' with a little halo above their heads.. The attitude is to damn all actions against minorities even when its for the benefit of the whole community.
To make the long whine short, everyone's free to talk any language on ch1 as far as I care.. Just use YOUR REASON and try to use a language which most others can understand as often as possible - it keeps the game more fun for everyone. And I apologize if I hurt anyones feelings saying so, feel free to insult me in any language that I don't understand. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Btw: I think Japanese language is cool.. I'm a great fan of Japanese movies.. I reckommend everyone to check out the makings of 'Beat' Takeshi Kitano for example.. Now thats attitude for ya (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
MrSiD - out
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I'm not on any bandwagon, I not pandering to any crowd and I certainly have no halo surrounding my head but for me the fact is the message conveyed in your posts, as well as those by Wobble, is disgusting and I call it as I see it and that's biggoted. No spin here. I can't say any simpler than that. I'm glad I don't have to have a RL association with either of you. I wouldn't want one by choice that's for sure.
Archy Bunker was funny, once upon a time, some tweny to thirty years ago on TV. But I pity the fool who lives and thinks like that for real. You two remind me of him.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 11-22-2000).]
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Mmm.. I asked to be insulted in some language I dont understand.. now I did understand that.
Anyway.. Westy, youre entitled to your opinnion entirely as I'm to mine. What comes to the part of never meeting eachothers in person - I probably agree with you! =) I never liked tight-ass kind of persons anyway.
So, I hope Westy will have his wish and the ch1 will be populated with a chatter worse than Babel. In fact, I think I'll go scream there right now in all the 4 languages I can!
Just kidding..
I guess the best I can do is to follow my principles on ch1 myself like I've done so far.. and let the others play the game just as they wish.. I wouldn't want to upset another Westy this week again.. nope.
Westy youre right and I'm wrong..
My ideas are roadkill, you have the wisdom =)
<-- exits this discussion, being obviously overrun by people who know better.
Don't worry, be happy Westy.
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Weird that this has never come up before, cause in WB it has been the same thing for years. Heck, from time to time even German players tell me to speak english on open/country channel when I start chatting in German.
Sascha
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Jagdgeschwader 77 "Herz As!"
[This message has been edited by Sascha JG 77 (edited 11-22-2000).]
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Originally posted by StSanta:
Hey guys, I am beginning to think that maybe you are possibly not ugly Americans (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
<S!>
Hmmm, you think they are spies from Japan who work in US? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Quote: It's jeuvinile and crass. I just tell idiots who talk like that (telling folks to speak in English) to shut the hell up.
-Westy :Unquote
Someone needs to take a look in the mirror.. lol. I rest my case.
PS: AH must be a great game to develop this much of strong emotions and fighting (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
It seems a lot of people care and want to fight for it to prosper.
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It has nothing to do with "AH" MrSid. It is all about intolerance, biggotry and racism.
Spin it any way you want but you can't hide the core of the matter.
-Westy
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Well Westy, spin it any way you want but it definately seems youre the one who is creating the problem here..
Blaming people for biggotry or racism for no reasonable reason is not very smart or nice.
If you knew me better you would know that I have friends from countries like USA, England, France, Germany, Norway, Sweden, South Africa, Japan, Greece, Italy and China..
Heck, I even married a greek woman.. So who are you to tell me that I'm a biggot or a racist? Get a life Westy. You are pushing personal accusations and attacks on my person.. And I dont (or have to) like it.
My statements about language on the game were (and are) merely based on the practical side of things.. and its only my opinnion of how things should go in a perfect gaming enviroment.
My _opinnion_.
I wasnt the one shouting for those people to shut up, I'm not that kind of person.. But I agree with the shouter in his point, not necessarily the way he put it. I hate to be rude to people, or boss them around..
Westy, youre reaching the point where I might become rude on you.. But youre simply not worth my irritation (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I hold no grudge and hope to meet you in the air, friends or enemies..
I'm sorry we had to cross our words this way, but hey - its life.
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Hmmm, you think they are spies from Japan who work in US?
LOL! They sent spies over, but they weren't getting any real information or espianage because the spies spent all of their time in the nudie bars. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
AKDejaVu
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"Blaming people for biggotry or racism for no reasonable reason is not very smart or nice."
Go back and start reading this topic from the top MrSid.
-Westy
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Westy:
I read this topic from the start. Nothing in Wobble's posts suggested he was a bigot or racist. Yet you called him such. Likewise for Sid.
Bigotry and racism are terrible things. However, you are wrong to attach those labels to everyone who doesn't agree with your point of view. You do your cause far more harm than good when you attack people without justification. You should remember the childhood story, "the boy who cried wolf."
I suppose now you will be calling me a bigot and a racist for disagreeing with you.
Ed
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"I wont mind if people use the main channel with the language that the majority of people can actually understand. Its not about being narrow minded, just keeping it practical for all. (MrSid)"
"seeing as how English (bad english too) is a predominate language it would seem most useful to have seperate channels for seperate languages (Wobble)"
"Practical for all"...."Seperate channels for seperate languages" Based on the replies in this thread. Folks who want seperation are definately in the minority.
"I think that having seperate channnels for differnet languages is a VERY valid IDEA and that it makes PERFECT sense to have everyone who speaks english to be on one channel French on another and so on. (Wobble)"
that's plain old segregation.
"It is obvious anyhow that most of the people chatting with strange languages on the main
channel are doing it simply because theyre ignorant of the fact that the majority of the other players would prefer to understand what they're saying on their screens. For me the attitude of many posters here seems to be the one of a 'collective congience' with a little halo above their heads.. The attitude is to damn all actions against minorities even when its for the benefit of the whole community. (MrSid)"
All of which in MY OPINION is biggoted and racist talk on thier part.
As for you Ed, and your remark "I suppose now you will be calling me a bigot and a racist for disagreeing with you.?", all I can say is grow up.
-Westy
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Bah ! where's Tinky-Winky when you need a hug ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Santa, I think all these "yankees" need a little more Beer
<tic>
Saw
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As for me, 99% of everyone chattin on channel 1 might as well be speaking chinese....to begin with, I don't pay any attention to them anyway and when I do, I'm usually sorry I paid any attention at all (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I say, just let em yap in whatever language makes them happy...If they are of the same country, we already have private channels they can use to speak their favorite speak.
Jeepers guys!!! Why are we discussing this in the first place???
Haven't ya heard, Clinton is still running the country!!!! First things first, please (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Ice
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LOL,ice heheeeeeeeeeeeeeee (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Well at least now I know what it is to be under the audition of the Spanish Inquisition.. Are you sure youre on the correct century Westy? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
All this aggravation on Westy's part leaves me worried about his mental health.. Is everything ok with you? If you feel constant pressure around the temples of your head or if you feel detached from reality, I suggest you seek counceling. They're pretty good these days you know (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Westy, if you look closer, you will notice that you are a bigger biggot than any of us. You're trying to suppress the opinnion of anyone who disagrees with your views by huge verbal attacks.. And your observations about racist remarks etc. are reaching classical symptoms of paranoia. Nobody here said that all the language or skin color minoritites shuld be banned from the game.. Nobody! What happened here was simply a discussion about how people think public communication should be handled.
We are still entitled to an opinnion aren't we? Or am I maybe wrong? Does sticking to my civil rights make me a biggot and a racist? I don't think so. This (at least on my part) was meant to be an open discussion about this subject, and I wanted to stir the soup intentionally by giving an opposing opinnion against the usual 'yes yes' style of thread this was becoming.
So, in effect, youre trying to suppress my freedom of speech Westy! If I was you, I'd be ashamed to show my face on this bb again.
And this is definately the last message from me on this subject. (possibly even in general.)
MrSiD - A newly formed Biggot and a Racist
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"If I was you, I'd be ashamed to show my face on this bb again."
Bah.
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MrSid you're a loon too, for sure.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 11-24-2000).]
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Why thank you Westy, maybe we have something in common afterall =))
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Even though I disagree with MrSiD's opinion on this matter, I must say that I read over the entire string and did not get the impression that he said anything wrong. In fact, he went out his way to be polite. It is a reasonable and logical opinion he holds. Race has nothing to do with it.
Some people need to get a life.
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Squadron Leader, Igloo.
C/O RCAF 411 Squadron - County of York (http://www.trueorigins.net/411rcaf)
"Problems cannot be solved with the same awareness that created them" - Albert Einstein[/i]
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"its real nice when an american gets kicked out of an american made game on an american service by squeaky gooks."
(from http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum40/HTML/000083.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum40/HTML/000083.html) )
I rest my case. He's gone and good riddance.
Let's have a tally of hands for those who felt the same as Wobble did? I'ld like to see em up high so they're clear and plain as day to see.
-Westy
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Argh! Now we in H2H have to put up with him fulltime!
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Originally posted by Westy:
"its real nice when an american gets kicked out of an american made game on an american service by squeaky gooks."
I rest my case. He's gone and good riddance.
Westy, Look again at Wobble's post. He isn't the only guy around making racist remarks. This is not a defence of Wobble as I think he definitely deserves a big ole' redneck award for this one but look at what was said to him to provoke it. Works both ways (applies to all of this thread)...
BTW I don't care what language you speak, as long as I'm on your 6 everything's fine. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Okay, so we went from wanting segregation of channels to accusations of bigotry and racism.
Holy toejam, how things degenerate quickly without a leader.. where's Al Gore when you need him?
LMFAO!!
MrFish, that was a real good funny you had, thanks man.
-SW
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hmm, I'm only Japanese in this thread.
I agree with Pepino. ch1 is global and common channel. We feel free to speak any language on ch1, but we NEED to think of people who speak other language. For non-english speakers, trying to speak English is quite difficult. But it is possible usually unless too complex.
If you see strange english text on ch1(and this post, of course (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif), please try to understand it. And if you see different language especially Japanese, try to feel oriental atmosphere (^^)
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Oh dear.
I thought this TheWobble guy was a two- weeker - he seemed to only began posting a couple of weeks ago.
BTW, for your information, the guy who was the original subject of my post was at it again last night (I wish I'd taken a screen-shot). Very sad.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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"... but look at what was said to him to provoke it. Works both ways (applies to all of this thread)..."
Sorry Washedup. It might be a cultural difference thingy but his true character was as apparant to me when he posted first, way up above, as it was yesterday with the outright blatant racist remarks. I'm not saying I can smell a racist or bigot miles away but he didn't hide it very well. And he tried to with his "werds." Just not very well. Same with a few others. I'm not a racist-phobe but some folks try to act like they're not when it's obvious (to me anyway) that they are.
This is a hobby to me, not a life. But I don't like sitting next to a racist in the movie theatre, ballpark or at work. I don't like em where I "play" either. To be quiet and refrain from speaking out is the worse thing one can do in my, not so humble, opinion.
-Westy
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I hate racists and biggots too..
Might be the reason why I took offence in your accusations Westy? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Anyway, IMHO we -the players, should agree together about common rules of behaviour in the game. Compromise is the word I like to use in this kind of situations..
Lets try to keep the game enjoyable for all.
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"Lets try to keep the game enjoyable for all."
Sounds good to me. <S>
-Westy