Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: muckmaw on May 17, 2004, 10:11:36 AM
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New blurb that just came across on our AP system here at the exchange.
More info to follow but the blurb read:
Stockpile of Iraqi Artillery Shells found containing Sarin>More to Follow
If I see more news, will post with link.
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The news I've heard is that a single 155mm shell used as a roadside bomb contained some Sarin which did not completely set off, just enough to detect the chemical.
FYI: Sarin has a shelf life of 5 years.
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You're a broker Muck ?
eeeekkk I've perhaps worked for you :D
What market place ?
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Sarin Nerve Agent Bomb Explodes in Iraq
52 minutes ago
By CHRIS TORCHIA, Associated Press Writer
BAGHDAD, Iraq - A roadside bomb containing sarin nerve agent exploded near a U.S. military convoy, the U.S. military said Monday. Two people were treated for "minor exposure," but no serious injuries were reported.
"The Iraqi Survey Group confirmed today that a 155-millimeter artillery round containing sarin nerve agent had been found," said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the chief military spokesman in Iraq (news - web sites). "The round had been rigged as an IED (improvised explosive device) which was discovered by a U.S. force convoy.
"A detonation occurred before the IED could be rendered inoperable. This produced a very small dispersal of agent," he said.
The incident occurred "a couple of days ago," he said.
The Iraqi Survey Group is a U.S. organization whose task was to search for weapons of mass destruction after the ouster of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) in last year's invasion.
The round was an old `binary-type' shell in which two chemicals held in separate sections are mixed after firing to produce sarin, Kimmitt said.
He said he believed that insurgents who rigged the artillery shell as a bomb didn't know it contained the nerve agent, and that the dispersal of the nerve agent from such a rigged device was very limited.
"The former regime had declared all such rounds destroyed before the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites)," Kimmitt said. "Two explosive ordinance team members were treated for minor exposure to nerve agent as a result of the partial detonation of the round."
In 1995, Japan's Aum Shinrikyo cult unleashed sarin gas in Tokyo's subways, killing 12 people and sickening thousands. In February of this year, Japanese courts convicted the cult's former leader, Shoko Asahara, and sentence him to be executed.
Developed in the mid-1930s by Nazi scientists, a single drop of sarin can cause quick, agonizing choking death. There are no known instances of the Nazis actually using the gas.
Nerve gases work by inhibiting key enzymes in the nervous system, blocking their transmission. Small exposures can be treated with antidotes, if administered quickly.
Antidotes to nerve gases similar to sarin are so effective that top poison gas researchers predict they eventually will cease to be a war .
Straffo: I'm with a member firm of the New York Stock Exchange.
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http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4997808/
Bomb containing deadly sarin explodes in Iraq
Blast releases ‘small quantity’ of gas, but no injuries reported
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Wonder where the insurgents got that single 155mm Sarin laced Shell.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Wonder where the insurgents got that single 155mm Sarin laced Shell.
I'm not sure, but just to give a clue of what we've been looking for, all the FX-type nerve agents (non-Sarin I believe?) that Saddam reportedly had could fit into a double wide garage in a country the size of California. Shouldn't be hard to hide.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Wonder where the insurgents got that single 155mm Sarin laced Shell.
They didn't even know it contained Sarin. For it's bombing they set it up like it was a conventional shell. It is also being reported that it is pre 1991 era , and was unmarked. So either it was just a random shell that got mixed in with conventional warheads so the inspectors never found it or the insurgents stumbled on a stockpile. We will know soon, because if they have more, they will be using them correctly next time.
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Aw come on you guys all the experts on this board have said NO WMD'S are in Iraq!!
Clearly this must be a plant by the Americans :(
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Another "WMD Found thread"..Le Yawn..:o
Keep on diggin.
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Originally posted by SirLoin
Yet another "WMD Found thread"..Le Yawn:o
Keepon diggin'..
Thats an "embarassment" smilie, and thats okay, we won't rub it in your face too badly.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Thats an "embarassment" smilie, and thats okay, we won't rub it in your face too badly.
Please...Rub it in my face..:lol
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We will know soon, because if they have more, they will be using them correctly next time.
That's good....I hate to think of them not killing US troops with something they didn't have in the first place.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Thats an "embarassment" smilie, and thats okay, we won't rub it in your face too badly.
I would not declare victory or failure this early. I really hope the insurgence are not sitting on a stockpile of warheads, and that it is just an isolated warhead. Or our troops will be paying the price soon.
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Well, this should finally put the "did Iraq have WMDs"-question to rest. Suck it up pacifist tards.
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
We will know soon, because if they have more, they will be using them correctly next time.
On CNN it's stated that the projectile can only be used effectively when it is indeed fired from artillery, as designed. So maybe we're lucky and the insurgents will not be able to use it effectively.
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Impossible, there are no WMD or terrorists in Iraq.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Well, this should finally put the "did Iraq have WMDs"-question to rest. Suck it up pacifist tards.
really? they have traced the source of this weapon already?
last I heard they had no idea where it came from. until they prove where it came from it means nothing.
do you really think that all of those fighting now, and the weapons they are using where in Iraq at the time we invaded?
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Impossible, there are no WMD or terrorists in Iraq.
Exactly ;)
A prison laboratory complex that may have been used for human testing of BW agents and "that Iraqi officials working to prepare the U.N. inspections were explicitly ordered not to declare to the U.N." Why was Saddam interested in testing biological-warfare agents on humans if he didn't have a biological-weapons program?
"Reference strains" of a wide variety of biological-weapons agents were found beneath the sink in the home of a prominent Iraqi BW scientist. "We thought it was a big deal," a senior administration official said. "But it has been written off [by the press] as a sort of 'starter set.'"
New research on BW-applicable agents, brucella and Congo-Crimean hemorrhagic fever, and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin that were not declared to the United Nations.
A line of unmanned aerial vehicles, UAVs, or drones, "not fully declared at an undeclared production facility and an admission that they had tested one of their declared UAVs out to a range of 500 kilometers [311 miles], 350 kilometers [217 miles] beyond the permissible limit."
"Continuing covert capability to manufacture fuel propellant useful only for prohibited Scud-variant missiles, a capability that was maintained at least until the end of 2001 and that cooperating Iraqi scientists have said they were told to conceal from the U.N."
"Plans and advanced design work for new long-range missiles with ranges up to at least 1,000 kilometers [621 miles] -- well beyond the 150-kilometer-range limit [93 miles] imposed by the U.N. Missiles of a 1,000-kilometer range would have allowed Iraq to threaten targets throughout the Middle East, including Ankara [Turkey], Cairo [Egypt] and Abu Dhabi [United Arab Emirates]."
In addition, through interviews with Iraqi scientists, seized documents and other evidence, the ISG learned the Iraqi government had made "clandestine attempts between late 1999 and 2002 to obtain from North Korea technology related to 1,300-kilometer-range [807 miles] ballistic missiles -- probably the No Dong -- 300-kilometer-range [186 miles] antiship cruise missiles and other prohibited military equipment," Kay reported.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
The news I've heard is that a single 155mm shell used as a roadside bomb contained some Sarin which did not completely set off, just enough to detect the chemical.
FYI: Sarin has a shelf life of 5 years.
your information were almost correct
im glad you showed calm head and you didnt made sutch silly post like all those other sheep
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3722255.stm
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
really? they have traced the source of this weapon already?
last I heard they had no idea where it came from. until they prove where it came from it means nothing.
do you really think that all of those fighting now, and the weapons they are using where in Iraq at the time we invaded?
They knew that had they used it *during* invasion, that there wouldn't be that much of Iraq left to do subsequent insurgents fighting, but lots of glass!
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
They knew that had they used it *during* invasion, that there wouldn't be that much of Iraq left to do subsequent insurgents fighting, but lots of glass!
I really hope that you do not actually believe that we would use our nuclear stock pile for anything other a retaliation for an nuclear attack on us.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Well, this should finally put the "did Iraq have WMDs"-question to rest. Suck it up pacifist tards.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3722255.stm
so whos tard now ?
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Why was Saddam interested in testing biological-warfare agents on humans if he didn't have a biological-weapons program?
defense?
if you knew your enemy possessed such weapons (and he knew that we do), wouldn't you want to know as much about them as possible so you could defend against them?
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
I really hope that you do not actually believe that we would use our nuclear stock pile for anything other a retaliation for an nuclear attack on us.
You must have missed the ;) smilie.
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Wow I thought there were no WMDs in Iraq???????
GEESH next thing you know we'll find out that John Kerry was a war hero in vietnam.
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I think the problem here is the left expects to find a huge cache of WMD. That won't happen. Alittle here, alittle there, no sensationlized reporting (as I pointed out in the copy/pasted article above) and what you have is a country that did possess them, but they were not found in single spot, or a majority of them have yet to be discovered. After all, how hard is it to hide these weapons in a country the side of California?
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Sti, our stated policy has been for a long time that we would use Nukes in retaliation for any WMD, including chem or bio war.
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
I really hope that you do not actually believe that we would use our nuclear stock pile for anything other a retaliation for an nuclear attack on us.
you mean... that we wouldn't use them AGAIN for anything other than a retaliation for a nuclear attack on us .... right? :p
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I think the problem here is the left expects to find a huge cache of WMD. That won't happen. Alittle here, alittle there, no sensationlized reporting (as I pointed out in the copy/pasted article above) and what you have is a country that did possess them, but they were not found in single spot, or a majority of them have yet to be discovered. After all, how hard is it to hide these weapons in a country the side of California?
but we interrogated so well :(
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Originally posted by Lizking
Sti, our stated policy has been for a long time that we would use Nukes in retaliation for any WMD, including chem or bio war.
I really don't believe the US would have though, in GW2. It would have worked against us.
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Gee. I honestly can't count all the times the "WMD FOUND!" banner was hoisted up so quickly by the same old few on this vbb over the last year.
If they can trace this one shell back to a significant hidden storage cahce then I'll be the first to say I was wrong.
And if not. How many billions of $$ spent and lives wasted for one 155 shell which is suspected of having sarin gas and obtained from who knows where?
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but we where told they were an imminent threat. it just doesn't add up. Hussein knew he couldn't beat us in a war. if he had the weapons he'd have used them to try to hold us off.
I wonder if it ever occurred to you guys that maybe the reason he wasn't 100% cooperative is that with the volatile nature of that region and within his own country he was trying to walk a tightrope- cooperate just enough with us and at the same time produce enough doubt that his local enemies have to wonder if he still has the stuff.
did we really invade Iraq, lose as many men and women as we have and spent all this money to track down one 155mm round that may or may not have been there at the time we invaded.
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Originally posted by Westy
Gee. I honestly can't count all the times the "WMD FOUND!" banner was hoisted up so quickly by the same old few on this vbb over the last year.
If they can trace this one shell back to a significant hidden storage cahce then I'll be the first to say I was wrong.
And if not. How many billions of $$ spent and lives wasted for one 155 shell which is suspected of having sarin gas and obtained from who knows where?
Mission accomplished dude, mission accomplished.
on a side note the president of the Iraqi ruleing council(the guy that would have been in charge after june 30th) was killed today. That was the 2nd one killed.
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If the warhead was indeed pre-1991 era ammo, it's nothing remarkable. It's a known fact Iraq produced WMD before the gulf1 but destroyed them afterwards. The unmarked round was probably one in a million case, hardly something to invade a country for. ;)
That put aside, I saw what the prettythangholes did to Nick Berg.. I say kill em all and let allah sort them out.
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Wow, so many people on this board...and the usual suspect I might add discounting this find before the story even got cold!
And you have to discount it because that's your rally cry, isn't it?
It's the sole argument you have left.
We can't take that away, lest the left be without reason to exist!
Where did the shell come from?
Some nomad dig it up and sell it on the black market ala "Sum of all Fears"?
Are there more where he found it?
Could a bedouin have found the smoking gun that the most powerful nation on earth could not?
Or did the shell originate in Syria, Iran or some other country?
Is it better to wait and keep an open mind than to close your eyes, cover years ears and scream "LALALALA...I'm not listening"?
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Wow, so many people on this board...and the usual suspect I might add discounting this find before the story even got cold!
And you have to discount it because that's your rally cry, isn't it?
It's the sole argument you have left.
We can't take that away, lest the left be without reason to exist!
Where did the shell come from?
Some nomad dig it up and sell it on the black market ala "Sum of all Fears"?
Are there more where he found it?
Could a bedouin have found the smoking gun that the most powerful nation on earth could not?
Or did the shell originate in Syria, Iran or some other country?
Is it better to wait and keep an open mind than to close your eyes, cover years ears and scream "LALALALA...I'm not listening"?
I really hope there is not more where that came from, but i think noone has a clue about it at this point. It is kind of pointless for us to argue over this untill it develops.
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Good thing that Iraq was invaded.... we would not want that old pre 91 shell getting into the wrong hands. :rofl
better luck next time. :)
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I feel safer now. :rolleyes:
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And you have to discount it because that's your rally cry, isn't it? It's the sole argument you have left..."
That's a reach! "Cry wolf" several many times over and what do you deserve? Here's several topics created by the same old party puppets over the past year when "WMD FOUND!"
Saddam sends ships of death out to sea with chem/bios weapons to attack!!
Saddam tried to buy uranium in Liberia!!
saddam has drones of death with poison gas ready to attack east coast!!
chem/bio wapeosn deployed for use as soon as Iraq is invaded!
chem/bio weapons ready for use when line of death crossed!
101st finds missiles with sarin gas!!
mobile chem labs burried under the desert!!
nuke lab found buried under sand!!
prison lab complex used in human testing of BW agents!!
a rolling Bio-lab truck with supposedly had false panels!!
100 barrels of radioactive material found at Iraqi nuclear site!!
mobile germ warfare tractor trailers found by British!!
massive bunker complex loaded with artillery rounds packed with mustard gas!
Nuklear program unearthed in Baghdad back yard!!
Danish troops find shells filled with mustard gas!!!!
Saddams can't be found because the WMD were moved to Syria before war!!!
Iraq ex-Minister Says Saddam's WMD Carefully Hidden! but no idea where.....
But Clinton said Saddam had all those WMD. Not Bush!
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Nielsen please answer this one question.
Were there WMDs in Iraq?
I ask you this question in light of the fact that a WMD was recently detonated in Iraq.
Were there WMDs in Iraq?
Some general facts to aid you in your reply.
1) Sarin is a WMD
2) An artillery shell containing Sarin is a WMD
3) An artillery shell containing Sarin was recently detonated in Iraq.
I would very much like to hear your answer.
Thanks.
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Well obviously Boosh had Halliburton plant it there.
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Originally posted by Westy
And you have to discount it because that's your rally cry, isn't it? It's the sole argument you have left..."
That's a reach! "Cry wolf" several many times over and what do you deserve? Here's several topics created by the same old party puppets over the past year when "WMD FOUND!"
Saddam sends ships of death out to sea with chem/bios weapons to attack!!
Saddam tried to buy uranium in Liberia!!
saddam has drones of death with poison gas ready to attack east coast!!
chem/bio wapeosn deployed for use as soon as Iraq is invaded!
chem/bio weapons ready for use when line of death crossed!
101st finds missiles with sarin gas!!
mobile chem labs burried under the desert!!
nuke lab found buried under sand!!
prison lab complex used in human testing of BW agents!!
a rolling Bio-lab truck with supposedly had false panels!!
100 barrels of radioactive material found at Iraqi nuclear site!!
mobile germ warfare tractor trailers found by British!!
massive bunker complex loaded with artillery rounds packed with mustard gas!
Nuklear program unearthed in Baghdad back yard!!
Danish troops find shells filled with mustard gas!!!!
Saddams can't be found because the WMD were moved to Syria before war!!!
Iraq ex-Minister Says Saddam's WMD Carefully Hidden! but no idea where.....
But Clinton said Saddam had all those WMD. Not Bush!
Can't really see how this is crying wolf, Westy.
It's an undisputed fact that a single 155MM shell containing Sarin gas was found and detonated in Iraq.
Now we must ask ourselves where it came from. When we have this answer, we can make an informed decision as to whether or not it was wise to invade Iraq in the WMD Premise.
To walk around screaming "We found 'em" and "No You did'nt Bush Lied...Save the whales" is simply wasted breath, isn;t it?
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If this leads to a stockpile of thousands then the war is justified.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Nielsen please answer this one question.
Were there WMDs in Iraq?
I ask you this question in light of the fact that a WMD was recently detonated in Iraq.
Were there WMDs in Iraq?
Some general facts to aid you in your reply.
1) Sarin is a WMD
2) An artillery shell containing Sarin is a WMD
3) An artillery shell containing Sarin was recently detonated in Iraq.
I would very much like to hear your answer.
Thanks.
Yes Hortlund. nobody has EVER denied that Iraq had WMD's at one point in time...whats your point?
point me to one person on this bb that has denied that Iraq has had wmd's..thx
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Nielsen please answer this one question.
Were there WMDs in Iraq?
I ask you this question in light of the fact that a WMD was recently detonated in Iraq.
Were there WMDs in Iraq?
Some general facts to aid you in your reply.
1) Sarin is a WMD
2) An artillery shell containing Sarin is a WMD
3) An artillery shell containing Sarin was recently detonated in Iraq.
I would very much like to hear your answer.
Thanks.
my dear you didnt get one point.
This one old 155mm shell were converted to trap bomb for Coalition soldiers.
No second shell were found.
And one more detail. It seems that they didnt know about Sarin inside untill it blow up
Reports say that bonb contained smaller that less amouth of it.
They would probably never find it if it were not blow up
Shell is dated to be from Iran-Iraq war btw.
Im still waiting on those "ready in 45 mins. WMD"
:aok
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
If this leads to a stockpile of thousands then the war is justified.
I don't know about thousand of shells, but a significant stockpile of at least several hundred would be enough to convince me that the war was worth fighting on the WMD premise.
As an unforseen bonus, we get to fight the Jihad All Star team on their home field, and not ours.
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They don't make just one. If they made one, they made a lot. The question is how many are LEFT, and where are they.
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"Can't really see how this is crying wolf, Westy."
Ok. I'll budge. Your post did not sounded like that. It was the follow up replies that did to me. This forum has been down this road so many times in the past that both sides of the issue have knee jerk reactions and it doesn't take much to set them off
"we must ask ourselves where it came from. When we have this answer, we can make an informed decision as to whether or not it was wise to invade Iraq in the WMD Premise."
I agree 100%. To ensure that the source is found and removed from circulation. Or else could be another Tokyo subway slaughter soon - if there are indeed shells with sarin in them.
Doesn't it make one wonder why they would pass on to the press that sarin gas was detected in the bombing? If it was. They must know that the AQ forces now in-country there will leave no stone unturned to find out where that shell came from and they will look to obtain them for thier use. Or could it be a red herring to help flush out AQ and the guerrillas? To assist the enemy into exposing thier hidden cache's of regular munitions as they rummage though them looking for more of what they think are sarin shells?
Course it also could be that sarin was used in that area as a pesticide and is now showing up as the bombing is being investigated.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Impossible, there are no WMD or terrorists in Iraq.
Well from some who said "but really..shouldn't have invaded without a UN resolution"
I totally agree.
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Originally posted by lada
This one old 155mm shell were converted to trap bomb for Coalition soldiers.
No second shell were found.
And one more detail. It seems that they didnt know about Sarin inside untill it blow up
Reports say that bonb contained smaller that less amouth of it.
[/b]
All this points in the same direction. The terrorists thought they had a normal arty shell and rigged it as an IED. Suddenly everyone goes "oops was that a gas shell"? Do you think the terrorists might be looking a bit closer at the remaining shells in whatever ammo dump they got the first one from?
All this = very bad news.
Shell is dated to be from Iran-Iraq war btw.
Here you lie.
Im still waiting on those "ready in 45 mins. WMD"
That artillery shell was ready to be used in 1 minute, Sarin is by definition a WMD, so you have now found them.
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"Sarin is by definition a WMD"
It's also a pesticide.
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Originally posted by Westy
"Or could it be a red herring to help flush out AQ and the guerrillas? To assist the enemy into exposing thier hidden cache's of regular munitions as they rummage though them looking for more of what they think are sarin shells?
Good point!
Pesticide??? What crops are protecting?
KNow what this is....sand...yeah...sand..
Know what grows in sand, huh, do ya?
NOTHING!!!!!
hehe..the great Sam Kinnison.
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Originally posted by Westy
"Sarin is by definition a WMD"
It's also a pesticide.
I'd hate to see the bug that would require a 155mm shell full of sarin. Maybe Saddam was expecting an attack from Mothra.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Yes Hortlund. nobody has EVER denied that Iraq had WMD's at one point in time...whats your point?
point me to one person on this bb that has denied that Iraq has had wmd's..thx
Ok, so we finally agree. Iraq had WMDs.
You have denied it, GS has denied it, Duedel has denied it, Blitz denied it, in fact most of the anti-war crowd has denied that Iraq had WMDs.
Now that they are found, the message has been transformed to "ok, so they had SOME, but that STILL doesnt count".
If the US forces found an Iraqi B-29 on a runway, fueled and ready with engines warming up and a nuclear bomb named "FAT MAN" in the bomb bay, AND a flight plan to New York, you guys would still say But you said weapons of mass destruction, what you have found is one weapon.
Frankly I think you anti war types are idiots.
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"I'd hate to see the bug that would require a 155mm shell full of sarin."
Not much of a bug for all the damage this "155 shell filled with sarin" did.
Judging from the reaction of a few half of Baghdad should be bloating corpses in the sun by now.
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OMG! MOTHRA!!!!!!!
I think it's a bit early to fix one's mind in cement on either side of this issue.
But go right ahead. Some of this is good...... the MOTHRA one was GREAT!
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Westy, it's a BINARY shell. It has to be fired to mix properly.
In the case of CW a special alternative exists to this in the form of Binary Weapons. Instead of storing a CW two reactants are stored seperately and mixed en route to the target by the rotating artillery shell after just being dispatched by the cannon.
It's sorta "good" that it was used as an IED. The real danger is if it is fired normally and properly mixes.
FYI.
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ok hort, im glad you liked that whole Theatre for 1 155mm Shell, whitch is probably more that 20 years old
:aok
"It's also a pesticide."
LOL Westy it seems that sadam got us all :D
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MSNBC: U.S.: Roadside bomb contained sarin gas
CNN: Artillery round in Iraq emits sarin gas, U.S. military says
FOX News: Chemical Weapons Found in Iraq
BBC News: 'Nerve gas bomb' explodes in Iraq
ABC News: Bomb Containing Nerve Agent Sarin Explodes in Iraq
In my opinion, one of the above headlines is more misleading than the others.
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Originally posted by ra
I'd hate to see the bug that would require a 155mm shell full of sarin. Maybe Saddam was expecting an attack from Mothra.
:rofl :lol good one! Wish I thought of it
well, we lost nearly 800 soldiers, who knows how many mercs, and we found one 155M shell.
Mission Accomplished (again) :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Ok, so we finally agree. Iraq had WMDs.
You have denied it, GS has denied it, Duedel has denied it, Blitz denied it, in fact most of the anti-war crowd has denied that Iraq had WMDs.
Now that they are found, the message has been transformed to "ok, so they had SOME, but that STILL doesnt count".
If the US forces found an Iraqi B-29 on a runway, fueled and ready with engines warming up and a nuclear bomb named "FAT MAN" in the bomb bay, AND a flight plan to New York, you guys would still say But you said weapons of mass destruction, what you have found is one weapon.
Frankly I think you anti war types are idiots.
You are mistaken....i have never said that iraq hasnt had WMD's......if you can track down even a single post to that effect i will salute you and forever shut up!
Your constant ranting and namecalling says it all...
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Just read about that Toad. Which apparantly would also make that an old, pre-GW1 shell - a leftover from the Iraq-Iran war.
As to why it was still around we'll all have to wait to see if they find more. If there are more then perhaps a hidden or abandoned cache will have been finally discovered. If not then perhaps it was an unlabelled shell found amongst others and those who set off the IED had no idea what it was they were using.
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
MSNBC: U.S.: Roadside bomb contained sarin gas
CNN: Artillery round in Iraq emits sarin gas, U.S. military says
FOX News: Chemical Weapons Found in Iraq
BBC News: 'Nerve gas bomb' explodes in Iraq
ABC News: Bomb Containing Nerve Agent Sarin Explodes in Iraq
In my opinion, one of the above headlines is more misleading than the others.
Yea it would be misleading to call the CNN quote a headline considering it isnt even on their front page.
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Which are good reasons to treat CNN and Foxnews as "The National Enquirer" and "The Globe." Both are garbage.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I think the problem here is the left expects to find a huge cache of WMD. That won't happen. Alittle here, alittle there, no sensationlized reporting (as I pointed out in the copy/pasted article above) and what you have is a country that did possess them, but they were not found in single spot, or a majority of them have yet to be discovered. After all, how hard is it to hide these weapons in a country the side of California?
Then the Iraqis have to be careful:
"Do not fart, Mohammed! Ripsnort is looking at us."
:rofl
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iHow many WMD are required to fulfil the requirments?
If a nuke is found does it have a minimum size requirement?
biologic have a certain minimum death caused by requirement?
I mean come on everytime the case is proved it's another excuse or "well thats NOT the massive horde we was promised"
or it not enough to kill but half a city.
Im just looking for the figures of how many we gotta find to please the anti-war establishment.
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It may or may not be a pre-GW1 shell. Don't know, haven't bothered to read much at this early stage of reporting.
However, binaries are not necessarily "old technology" if that's what you're getting at. The binary method works and is still in use.
Yeah, either the users had no clue it was Sarin, or they did know but didn't know how a binary works or they knew it was Sarin and how it works but chose this way for some other reason, or........
It could have been a single round that rolled off a truck in the desert in '90 or it could have been part of a cleverly hidden stockpile or it might have been mixed in with others or it might have been............
Lot's of "what ifs" not much real info as yet. In a week or two there might be some real data. Or not.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Frankly I think you anti war types are idiots.
Maybe so, but our country's history in actually going to war has paid our admission fee....:D What doe you know about war-anti-war? The view must be really good from the cheap seats.
http://www.learnaboutmovieposters.com/WW2/articles/AlliesandAxis.asp
Next time you want to criticize, pay the friggin cover charge:D
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I find pretty ironic to see some pretend it's a the proof of the presence of WMD in Iraq when :
U.S. officials believe, based on evidence, that the shell was an experimental munition produced before the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites), called a "binary type," the official said.
as seen here : http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=6&u=/ap/20040517/ap_on_re_mi_ea/us_iraq_sarin_3
and so far I agree with this :
At the State Department, deputy spokesman Adam Ereli said "the jury is still out" on whether chemical or other weapons of mass destruction remained in Iraq.
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
:rofl :lol good one! Wish I thought of it
well, we lost nearly 800 soldiers, who knows how many mercs, and we found one 155M shell.
Mission Accomplished (again) :rolleyes:
Lets see, how should I start?
1. Iraqi stated they had no WMD. none nada, zip... remember?
2. The UN looked and looked and looked some more.. and found none.
3. We have been looking for over a year and have found NONE, yet, as we found out today the discovery of two differant types of warheads.
4. I guess that all they have right, there could be no others hidden right?
So in review, the Iraqi milatary only had two old shells laying around and now there is no others, right?
I said it before "they had no reason to get rid of them before and they did'nt" It seems they were rather well hidden, but you can bet your A22 there are plenty more.
Only a twit would think other wise:D
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Uh, Westy, Sarin was discovered and developed as a pesticide, but it is not, and has never been used for that purpose.
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Around february 2003 Blix concluded that Iraq could not explain where some very small portions of sarin and VX are. They said that they are lost... and now they are propably been found somewhere from burried stockpiles...
But are few, even few hundred, old artillery shells really threat to world peace??? You really can't get 155mm shell any further than just over the border. Imminent threat... gimme a break.
Btw does anyone have idea how fast sarin comes harmless? VX at least will be totally harmless after around 6 or so years. If these findings were from iraq-iran war, they are propably pretty much useless anyway. And in small quantities it is totally harmless don't you agree? otherwise pentagon would not use it against it own troops ... http://www.rense.com/general31/prenta.htm :confused:
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"Sarin is also a pesticide. "
Yes it is and pesticides are chemicals used to create chemical weapons.
Why dont you just spin it this way....."it does say in the bible that babylon will be attacked by a plauge of locusts"
I'm hearing alot of CRAP in this thread. IT IS A PROVEN FACT that Iraq had a very active WMD program.....THAT HAS BEEN CONFIRMED. I look at it this way.....if they had a program they were making the weapons.
"this is a pre 91 shell"
that is no defense cause acording to alot of you Iraq got rid of ALL its chemical weapons.
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Originally posted by Westy
If they can trace this one shell back to a significant hidden storage cahce then I'll be the first to say I was wrong.
Well I guess they might have made just this one LOL:rolleyes:
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1st off I agree with this war and the reason it was undertaken...
I think most would agree that Saddam had WMD's. I think most would agree he was making WMD's. So...think of the following...
Is it so hard to think that maybe some of the hardcore Iraqi soldiers that just dissappeared may be fighting with the insurgents?
Is it not possible that maybe 3 or 4 of them knew where some old chem shells might be?
Is it to much to grasp that maybe by luck they fell on some stash they didn't know was there and now that this may have been Sarin they are hoopin and hollerin and trying to figure out how to do it right the next time?
Is it possible that the Other Shell that could have been Mustard Gas is in another pile that was told by sommeone it was hidden someplace.
There are a ton of scenarios here...
Saddam had WMD's IMO and had AMPLE time to hide em. 500 shells isnt nothing to move. All the time he had before he was invaded,,,All the time he bought over YEARS of playing russian roulette with war with the US and violating sanctions. He could have buried em ANYwhere in Iraq. So many here though say thats not possible.
He IMO was playing both sides..If he makes everyone think he has them they have to be cautious. IF he says he doesnt even though everyone knows he did at one time , they have to be cautious. Either way he buys time to move em. He wasn't supposed to have them. PERIOD!!!!!
Syria is a know haven for terrorists. Why not hide them there. Why not let certain people know they are there. Why not while on the run being chased by the US after the invasion let the ones closest to you know hey...There are Sarin shells here..VX there..Mustard there...yadda yadda yadda.
Alot of people here choose to think that he was totally cooperative in all this. He was anything but. Years he blocked inspectors. WHY? I think it was because he was moving things around..Getting ready to hide em. Years he played against the US and UN. HE did everything he could to make inspectors life miserable. And at one time it was what , 3 years there were NO INSPECTORS at all? Could be wrong about that time span but I do remember it was a WHILE that no inspectors were there. AMPLE time to hide stuff.
Then when pushed totally in a corner and having things moved and hidden he allows inspectors back. HE produces a copy of all the stuff he didnt have and yet can't say where 800 tons of Chem agents are. Can't account for 500+ artillary shells that had Chems. in them.
This isn't some conspierocy theroy , this is all known. I just fail to see why so many of the Anti-War folks here don't think about this. It seems plain to me. ARe the WMD's still in Iraq? probably not to the extent they were , but obviously there is something there.
Shelf life means nothing either. They may not be new but , does anyone know that until it's blown up to see? Are we willing to sit by and wait and say , they are to old so they are no threat? I don't think so. That is playing with Millions of lives possibly. I don't see anyway of knowing how old they are until they are either captured or blown up and the pieces analyzed.
It may be a bit early to be hollering about WMD's found...But it's OBVIOUS that some exsist. TONS maybe not...But some for sure. Accidental..Highly possible...But if that was from some stash..bet they are trying to figure out how to NOT screw up next time.
Just my 2 cents
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I'm convinced. Even if they found stockpiles of the crap you haters on this board would still say:
Bush is Hitler.
the weapons werent all that deadly
He had every right to keep them
we still should have waited for yet another usless UN resolution
BLA BLA BLAH
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I'm convinced that ten years from now, they'll still be looking for proof.
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You may be right Sandman.......But I highly doubt it.;)
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Hell... I'd bet that in 50 years we'll still be in Iraq trying to clean up this mess, but no one will be around here to collect. ;)
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YOU ALL ARE WRONG
I peronsally know it came from allah. I mean who else would it come from? Allah must be helping them in the *holy* war;)
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mmmmmmmmm ... yes skull.
Ravs
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Originally posted by Sandman
Hell... I'd bet that in 50 years we'll still be in Iraq trying to clean up this mess, but no one will be around here to collect. ;)
Well we are still in Korea after 50 years and that was a UN police action.
I think the secularists would love to change "jesus saves" to "the UN saves"
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FYI do you know we still find shells full of hyperite and other gaz in france almost 1 century after WWI ?
In the light of that do you still find strange there is some shell full of combat gaz some 20 year after the Iraq/iran war ?
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Originally posted by straffo
FYI do you know we still find shells full of hyperite and other gaz in france almost 1 century after WWI ?
In the light of that do you still find strange there is some shell full of combat gaz some 20 year after the Iraq/iran war ?
Silence!!! How dare you inject a dose of perspective into the debate!!
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oooops may bad :D
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Why everyone is astonished that there was found a gas-artillery-grenade ?
During Iran-Iraq-War Saddam got from many countries - inlcuding Germany, USSR, France and the USA the equipment to build gas-weapons.
He used them for years during the war - not only against the kurdish city of Halabya but especially against the iranian troops and also iranian cities.
130 THOUSAND iranian soldiers died because of these gas weapons. And no one cared - because in these times Saddam was defined as a nice guy. OK - he used gas weapons - but why blaming him ?
This changed later... for the 130000 soldiers who died because of the gas attacks a little bit too late.
But why anyone wonders that there are still old grenades left in Iraq? Sure - they cant be used as artillery-weapons any longer but they could be used in the actual guerilla warfare for terrorist attacks.
Iraq is full of weapons - it got them for decades and especially weapons for guerilla warfare can be fund everywhere in this country. The same with Afghanistan.
But the far more disturbing news yesterday in arab and iranian media were not this gas grenade but the assassination of the iraqi president of the interim government and his XO.
Also there were reports in arab and iranian media about the USA - allowing homosexuals to marry - which is used for anti-american propaganda mixed with the torture pictures of iraqi prisoners who were forced to homosexual poses.
These news are far more disturbing than old gas grenades of Iran-Iraq War, because they are succesful in showing the whole west - not only the USA - as a pervert and decadent culture. The effects of these propaganda are a greater danger than old gas grenades could be.
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Great now they hate us because we allow gays to live free in there own country!
Dang aint we some evil bastardos.
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Why everyone is astonished that there was found a gas-artillery-grenade ?
i would hardly call a 155mm artillery round a "grenade"
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Originally posted by muckmaw
New blurb that just came across on our AP system here at the exchange.
More info to follow but the blurb read:
Stockpile of Iraqi Artillery Shells found containing Sarin>More to Follow
If I see more news, will post with link.
Wow that's a relief, imagine if it had all been for nothing!!
Course at $50 billion per shell found it's not the most cost effective way of finding WMD's but what the hey...
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Originally posted by WilldCrd
i would hardly call a 155mm artillery round a "grenade"
a lot of guys here are translating from other languages. I could be wrong (I only speak English and limited southerner), but isn't grenade French for bomb?
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Originally posted by straffo
FYI do you know we still find shells full of hyperite and other gaz in france almost 1 century after WWI ?
In the light of that do you still find strange there is some shell full of combat gaz some 20 year after the Iraq/iran war ?
Well, since the Iraqis did not have binary arty shells during the Iran/Iraq war...yes, kinda.
The situation is kinda similar to that if a French peasant would find a cruise missile "from ww1" in his fields.
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English was the 4th language I learned and I am sure that there are many funny mistakes in my text :)
With "artillery grenade" I meant the thing they put in the artillery guns. Not a hand-grenade.
Sorry for any misunderstandings.
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NP i was prolly being to literal meself
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Well, since the Iraqis did not have binary arty shells during the Iran/Iraq war...yes, kinda.
The situation is kinda similar to that if a French peasant would find a cruise missile "from ww1" in his fields.
Didn't know that , I tought it was a technologie already availlable during Iraq/Iran war.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
a lot of guys here are translating from other languages. I could be wrong (I only speak English and limited southerner), but isn't grenade French for bomb?
Right, a Grenade can be a 40 mm shell or a hand-grenade
it can be this :
(http://www.nomanslandmilitaria.com/grenade%20kugel_small.jpg)
or this :(http://lesarbres.free.fr/280/grenade2.JPG)
it can be also the town of Granada in Andalousia
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the shell/bomb was a CIA plant.. now back to the butt bandits in MA & how this makes the US a more "modern" country thread :)
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Hortlund: From 1991
http://www.fas.org/irp/gulf/cia/970825/970613_dim37_91d_txt_0001.html
2. IRAQ IS LIKELY TO RETAIN A SIGNIFICANT CHEMICAL WEAPON
STOCKPILE FOR SOME TIME, ALTHOUGH 1TS NERVE AGENT STOCKS ARE BEING
REDUCED BY SPOILAGE AND PROBABLY WILL BE MILITARILY INEFFECTIVE
AFTER 31 MARCH. IRAQ'S BINARY STOCKS AND BLISTER AGENTS WILL REMAIN
TOXIC FOR A LONGER TIME.
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Lizking I do not know where or if sarin has ever been used as a pesticide. I should have been clearer. What I failed to relay was my recollection to one of the many other times the "WMD FOUND!" sarin alarms went off...
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0407-09.htm
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Terence Taylor, another former UN inspector, said the shell's separate chambers were unusual, since it was not known Iraq had such advanced technology.
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Hortlund is a living example of why the Swedish judicial system is laughed upon all over this planet.
If he indeed works in a court as anything more than a janitor with a web access. :rolleyes:
"You have denied it, GS has denied it, Duedel has denied it, Blitz denied it, in fact most of the anti-war crowd has denied that Iraq had WMDs."
The fact remains that a college boy could produce more Sarin in 10 days of research than what's found in the whole Iraq so far. The religious attacks in Japanese subways contained a thousand-fold amount of Sarin.
With Hortlunds logic, Japan should be immediately annihilated for harbouring WMD as the cult members were (and possibly are) in possession of it. :lol
How can a person be so dumb.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Hortlund is a living example of why the Swedish judicial system is laughed upon all over this planet.
If he indeed works in a court as anything more than a janitor with a web access. :rolleyes:
"You have denied it, GS has denied it, Duedel has denied it, Blitz denied it, in fact most of the anti-war crowd has denied that Iraq had WMDs."
The fact remains that a college boy could produce more Sarin in 10 days of research than what's found in the whole Iraq so far. The religious attacks in Japanese subways contained a thousand-fold amount of Sarin.
With Hortlunds logic, Japan should be immediately annihilated for harbouring WMD as the cult members were (and possibly are) in possession of it. :lol
How can a person be so dumb.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Hortlund is a living example of why the Swedish judicial system is laughed upon all over this planet.
If he indeed works in a court as anything more than a janitor with a web access. :rolleyes:
"You have denied it, GS has denied it, Duedel has denied it, Blitz denied it, in fact most of the anti-war crowd has denied that Iraq had WMDs."
The fact remains that a college boy could produce more Sarin in 10 days of research than what's found in the whole Iraq so far. The religious attacks in Japanese subways contained a thousand-fold amount of Sarin.
With Hortlunds logic, Japan should be immediately annihilated for harbouring WMD as the cult members were (and possibly are) in possession of it. :lol
How can a person be so dumb.
ahhh ....
lighten up Frances:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Here you lie.
[/B]
anylink ?
I will give one link and cut/paste to prove you speak BS dear
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/06/25/iraq/main560449.shtml
"The former top U.S. weapons inspector in Iraq, David Kay, said it was possible the shell was an old relic overlooked when Saddam said he had destroyed such weapons in the mid-1990s. "
"U.S. officials believe, based on evidence, that the shell was an experimental munition produced before the 1991 Gulf War, called a binary type — a bomb carrying two separate chemicals that when combined in an explosion, produce sarin. "
SO hell yeah ... what an advanced technology
Come on and tell me, where did i lie ?