Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Dowding on May 18, 2004, 05:27:05 AM
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Perhaps your google searches missed this. In fact, I'm not sure it was reported on any major news carriers (not even Fox News).
http://www.mcb.org.uk/presstext.php?ann_id=88
"The Muslim Council of Britain (http://www.mcb.org.uk) is the UK's representative Muslim umbrella body with over 400 affiliated national, regional and local organisations, MOSQUES, charities and schools."
And I would hardly call them sympathetic to the US/UK in Iraq either, given previous press releases. Of course, this will probably not meet your requirements on this issue; Yasser Arafat has yet to criticise the murderers and OBL is disresepectfully silent on the issue.
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I have a feeling the source is going to be contested... let's see ;)
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" Of course, this will probably not meet your requirements on this issue..."
Course not. They are subject to change without notice. ;)
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Please post a link (working) to an Aljazeera article resolutely condemning the brutal murder of Berg.
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Presto chango! Moving target again. First it's "absolute silence, then "deafening silence" and now it's "give me a specific article from a specific source." It's that "8th Immam on the 33rd step of the 2nd minerat of the sunni mosque located on the central plains of Iran" baloney.
Go to Google and do your own search. Select CACHED from the results if the page you try to click on doesn't work. I found the report was on Al Jazeera in less than 10 seconds and it was the sixth link down amongst the results.
Are you helpless?
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Very good. :D
I suspect they are looking for a statement that looks something like this:
"I absolutely and without moderation accept full responsibility for Berg's death, and admit that it happened because of an intrinsic flaw in the theology of Islam."
- Big Chief Mullah of Islam, speaking on behalf of all Muslims everywhere
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Let's see, a week later we have Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the UAE on record as condemning it.
A week later we have the Muslim Council of Britain, the Sacramento Valley Council on American Islamic Relations (not a Muslim religious leader, just a group) and a few other similar "religious leader" comments.
Of course, in the area where the fighting and killing is actually taking place, the place where we need a little leadership and guidance for the masses, there's been what from the leading Ayatollahs and Mullah? Can anyone give me links to condemnations of this act by the religious leaders in Iraq, Iran, Syria or Saudia Arabia?
Governmentally, does anyone have links to condemnations of this act by Syria or Iran? You know, the two countries implicated as routes for arms and infiltrating fighters into Iraq?
No, I didn't think you could.
I have yet to see a condemnation of this murder by Kuwait. Did I miss that one?
Now you can say that those standards are just too high. Fine; you and I both know you're BS'ing yourself. The condemnation of this act has come from either "friendly" Islamic governments or from religious leaders that tend flocks far away and highly unlikely to be involved in the fighting.
Pretty significant to me.
And then of course, there is a lot of this sentiment floating around. Probably FAR more of this attitude than condemnation.
But a columnist for the Cairo newspaper Al-Arabi, Mr Nour Al-Huda Zaki, summed up the 'eye for an eye' sentiment among some in the Arab world.
'What happened to Berg, I believe, will make the American people wake up and realise that it is an end result of the raping of the Iraqis in the prison.
'In normal circumstances, I could condemn the slaughtering of the American, but we are living in abnormal circumstances.
'I cannot condemn it now,' he wrote.
And, obviously, this attitude pervades the religious and governmental leadership near the actual fighting.
But go ahead and ignore that.
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Originally posted by Westy
Go to Google and do your own search. Select CACHE from the results if the page you try to clikc on doesn't work. I found the report was on Al Jazeera in less than 10 seconds and it was the sixth link down amongst the results.
Are you helpless?
I asked for a link. The one(s) posted previously were dead and Al Jazeera was down for several days. Maybe to avoid reporting on the animalistic killing by members of Islam? If you can't post one then how about keeping it to yourself?
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"If you can't post one then how about keeping it to yourself?"
I can. but I won't And you can remain "inorgrant" to the truth because you're too ensconced with the narrow, party line or just too lazy to find out what it is on your own.
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Originally posted by Westy
"If you can't post one then how about keeping it to yourself?"
I can. And you can remain "inorgrant" to the truth.
Waiting patiently. The silence is still deafening.
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"the silence is still deafening"
heh! With your "condition" I can see why.
(http://www.blitzhumor.com/head-up-ass.jpg)
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Is it really that hard for you Islam apologists to find one article from an Al Jazeera contributor absolutely condemning the brutal murder of American civilian? The only argument I will accept is a link.
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Toad, you shifted the goal posts before and you do so again. Like I said before, you'll be wanting Sadr (local Iraqi religious type), OBL (fanatical US-hater) and Arafat (US-hater and leader of Israel's untermenschen) apologising before you are happy... i.e. never.
You act all indignant and surprised when faced with that fact. Let me quote you:
"However, I don't see ANY of the "Islam is a religion of peace" Mullahs or Clerics speaking out against this. I see no Fatwah condemning these killers. In fact, there is only silence from the peaceful religion of Islam and all its followers. Well, except for the followers of Islam that are openly rejoicing in this murder of a civilian, of course.
Can you help me with a link to the negative commentary about these rag-tag bunch of outlaws, extremists and terrorists from the fine, upstanding, peaceful representatives of Islam?"
We've done that in spades. You're starting to appear desperate to back up your own prejudice.
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"Islamist apologist. "
Sorry AKIron. All this time I thought you were posting to me when it's plain that you meant someone else.
" The only argument I will accept is a link."
Not to speak for these "Islamist apologists" you say you're talking to but I'd be willing to be they wouldn't care what you will or will not accept at this point.
But good luck against that windmill anyway!
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Originally posted by Westy
"Islamist apologist. "
Sorry AKIron. All this time I thought you were posting to me when it's plain that you meant someone else.
" The only argument I will accept is a link."
Not to speak for these "Islamist apologists" you say you're talking to but I'd be willing to be they wouldn't care what you will or will not accept at this point.
But good luck against that windmill anyway!
Westy, let me be plain. I think you are lying about finding an Al Jazeera article in which the editors or regular contributors condemn without qualification the brutal murder of Berg. A simple link will prove me wrong.
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Let me be plain in return. I think you're obnoxious arse and are being lazy and just plain difficult. It's your "game" on the board.
I already told you how to find it. Even a one handed chimp could do it. Be your own "step and fetch it!"
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Toad, I'd check the date of that Muslim Council press release if I were you. Seems it was issued the day the story of the killing broke. It says as much in the very first paragraph.
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Oh yeah? Yeah!? ! But is it on Al Jazeera? (melodramatic eye roll ala AKIron)
;)
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Originally posted by Westy
Let me be plain in return. I think you're obnoxous arse and are being lazy and paricularly difficult. It's your "game".
I already told you how to find it. Even a one handed chimp could do it. Be your own "step and fetch it!"
I didn't start this thread and I couldn't care less what you think about me. Your inability to back up your claim will forever render your opinion without merit in my opinion.
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Westy, whereabouts from Mass. are you?
Toads right, muslims groups in Europe or the US ain't going to cut it.
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I certainly backed it up. Gave you the toools and enabled you. But you in the end cop out of the argument with the penultimate jeuvinile retort, "I can't hear you anymore, neener."
That's as low and lame as someone who starts an argument and then backs out with "nana_ nah... i was just trolling."
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Originally posted by Dowding
Toad, you shifted the goal posts before and you do so again.
Nah, you just define the question to suit your answer.
Tell me, are you going to pretend the Muslim Council of Britain is as influential with Islam as Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani in Iraq or Ayatollah Ali Khamenei in Iraq? As the Ayatollah's presiding over Islam's holiest shrines/mosques?
Go ahead. Those are what I call the leading clerics of Islam. What you guys give out as proof are the relatively few comments from the 8th Immam on the 33rd step of the 2nd minerat of the sunni mosque located on the central plains of Iran.
The real leaders of Islam have remained silent. Sorry, that's just how it is.
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Originally posted by Westy
I certainly backed it up. Gave you the toools and enabled you. But you in the end cop out of the argument with the penultimate jeuvinile retort, "I can't hear you anymore, neener."
That's as low and lame as someone who starts an argument and then backs out with "nana_ nah... i was just trolling."
I usually refrain from calling someone an idiot, in your case I'll make an exception.
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Out by Worcester. why?
And no you're wrong. they count too. There is no central religious figure or head of Islam. There is no Pope or central figure. It's all splitner groups with people follolwijg their favorites. Literally hundreds if not thousand of seperate groups. Regardless of that when I was "discussing" this with Toad over the last few days ALL my links were reports for Middle Eastern condemnation. Just each time the report isn't from the ones he specifically wants to hear it from or they'res not "loud" enough. However IMO only the deaf, Rush Limbaugh, or a neo-con could maintain there was "deafening silence."
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I'm originally from Springfield. Nope sorry, it needs to be a top Mulla from a " In the area" group.
No different from the Mayor of Tupelo saying sorry for the prisoner
treatment in Iraq, and the President saying nothing.
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"it needs to be a top Mulla from a " In the area" group."
Which was already done and links posted in this topic last week
http://216.91.192.19/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=116519
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Originally posted by Monk
I'm originally from Springfield. Nope sorry, it needs to be a top Mulla from a " In the area" group.
No different from the Mayor of Tupelo saying sorry for the prisoner
treatment in Iraq, and the President saying nothing.
And Al Jazeera silent in it's condemnation is like Fox News, CNN, MSNBC and all the other US news organizations not expressing an opinion if the roles were reversed.
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Originally posted by Westy
Which was already done and links posted in this topic last week
http://216.91.192.19/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=116519
Yep. Erlkonig was able to find one such statement from a significant Islamic religious source, from Al-Azhar mosque in Egypt.
Nothing as yet from Ka'ba at Mecca (al-Haram al-Makki al-Sharif), the Mosque of the Prophet Muhammad in Ma dina, Saudi Arabia or the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, the Aqsa Mosque (the Haram al-Sharif). These, of course, are the three "holiest" sites in Islam.
But to expect them to speak out would be like asking the fifth mullah on the third step somewhere or some such thing.
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Well I'm expecting to hear pope asking muslims to forgive christians because of those tortured and dead prisoners.
Well some bishop or even cantor will do. Maybe AKIron or Toad could post a link ?
:aok
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Originally posted by Westy
Presto chango! Moving target again. First it's "absolute silence, then "deafening silence" and now it's "give me a specific article from a specific source." It's that "8th Immam on the 33rd step of the 2nd minerat of the sunni mosque located on the central plains of Iran" baloney.
he could always throw in a rolling scissors or immelman or some such just to keep you on your toes
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Originally posted by Staga
Well I'm expecting to hear pope asking muslims to forgive christians because of those tortured and dead prisoners.
Well some bishop or even cantor will do. Maybe AKIron or Toad could post a link ?
:aok
Tortured and dead prisoners? You have a link?
BTW, like Islam, Christianity has no singular earthly leader, contrary to Westy's ignorant statement.
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The links above works fine, here is what it says:
12 May 2004
Muslims condemn reprehensible Nick Berg killing
The Muslim Council of Britain expresses its disgust and condemnation of the indefensible murder in Iraq of the US civilian Nick Berg who was shown being beheaded on yet another allegedly 'Islamic' website video released yesterday.
"This is not just a heinous act, it is also utterly repugnant to the Islamic rules of war. The appalling abuses that are known to have occurred at the Abu Ghurayb prison in Baghdad cannot be used as a justification for this killing," said Iqbal Sacranie, Secretary-General of the Muslim Council of Britain.
The US-led 'coalition' is facing mounting condemnation from all across the world for the disastrous and increasingly chaotic aftermath of launching its ill-conceived war against Iraq. The killing of hostages like Mr Berg can only aid those warmongers who believe that the Iraqis need 'civilising'.
[Ends]
Note for Editors:
The Muslim Council of Britain (http://www.mcb.org.uk) is the UK's representative Muslim umbrella body with over 400 affiliated national, regional and local organisations, mosques, charities and schools.
For further information please contact Tel: 07956 353 738
For further information please contact the MCB:
The Muslim Council of Britain
Boardman House
64 Broadway
Stratford
London
E15 1NT
Tel: 020 8432 0585/6
Fax: 020 8432 0587
admin@mcb.org.uk
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Well, Straffo, how long do you think it would take the Pope to condemn US soldiers beheading an Iraqi civilian with a long knife while shouting "In Jesus' Name!" if such a video were released?
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Originally posted by Toad
Of course, in the area where the fighting and killing is actually taking place, the place where we need a little leadership and guidance for the masses, there's been what from the leading Ayatollahs and Mullah?
You mean like the ones on the Iraqi Governing Council?
GC condemns Berg murder
(Al-Mashriq) - The Governing Council yesterday condemned the killing of the American hostage Nicolas Berg by unknown people. GC Rotating Chairman Ezzul Deen Saleem said, "the Council severely condemns killing the American hostage". He said mutilation is forbidden by Islam and by all heavenly religions.
(Al-Mashriq is published daily by Al-Mashriq Institution for Media and Cultural Investments.)
http://www.iwpr.net/archive/ipm/ipm_076.html
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Originally posted by Dowding
Perhaps your google searches missed this. In fact, I'm not sure it was reported on any major news carriers (not even Fox News).
http://www.mcb.org.uk/presstext.php?ann_id=88
"The Muslim Council of Britain (http://www.mcb.org.uk) is the UK's representative Muslim umbrella body with over 400 affiliated national, regional and local organisations, MOSQUES, charities and schools."
And I would hardly call them sympathetic to the US/UK in Iraq either, given previous press releases. Of course, this will probably not meet your requirements on this issue; Yasser Arafat has yet to criticise the murderers and OBL is disresepectfully silent on the issue.
Thank you for posting that, I will re-examine my values on this issue. Please don't hesitate to post further releases of that nature.
I would argue that Muslim groups from the UK and US are of paramount importance. They will have influence with their fellow Muslims that you or I will never have.
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Originally posted by Toad
Well, Straffo, how long do you think it would take the Pope to condemn US soldiers beheading an Iraqi civilian with a long knife while shouting "In Jesus' Name!" if such a video were released?
Now it's about how long it took? :rolleyes:
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Let's see, are you putting the Iraqi Governing Council forward as a the government widely recognized in Iraq? Are you saying the "muslim in the street" would view the IGC as a non-biased source?
Or would the "muslim in the street" consider the IGC as merely one facet of the American occupation forces?
What do you think there? Think the IGC fits as an "Islamic government"?
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Not at all. That's a reply to Straffo about the Pope speaking out against this sort of thing. Would anyone expect to hear from the Pope in that instance? I certainly would.
What have you seen from the major Islamic religious leaders again? The ones that can have a direct effect on the killings that are going on there? Say al-Sistani, whose "flock" are dying daily in the crossfire between these murderers and the US troops?