Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: -lazs- on November 19, 2000, 10:28:00 AM
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I like to get all my boogey men out from under the bed an into the light so..... What exactly is this "furball" thing? It is apparently a great evil... A "dweeby" thing that lacks any semblance of skill. It is also apparent that "furballing" is any time that more than two planes are engaged in combat. Oddly.... it seems that shooting down someone who is getting a beer from the fridge is the hight of skill while keeping track of multiple friends and foes in a (to use a WWII term) "melee" is dweeby?
Obviously, I have missed the subtle evil of.... Dare I even say the word? Furballs!
lazs
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Furball = Hangtime's Cat. BAHAHAHA!
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It is not Dweeby, it just get's old.
Lizking
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Furballing isn't dweeby. It's fun.
Doing it when your target is to capture an enemy field, however, is (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}
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I usually avoid furballs, that's why I prefer the big maps, the beta terrain is too small and invites to them. But take a niki and going furballing is good for blowing off steam, I recognize it.
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Furball = ultimate test of SA. Has been known to cause many a toejam-eatin' grin on my face.
Say YES to the fur!
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A furball is my favorite thing to see when I am high and fast in my Mustang. It makes it easy for me to zoom through, select a target that is unaware of my presence and send him down flaming.
In other words, all you Spitty driving, 109 flying, tight-turning stall fighters, keep up the good work. I love the setups (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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"Wing up, Get kills, Be happy"
Midnight
13th TAS
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I guess some people give furballing a bad name by continually flying and dying...rinse and repeat. They don't care if they live or not, realism is not a factor for them and some people can't understand "playing" like that. Not me, I think to kill and live in a furball sure takes a lot more skill then booming and zooming. Maybe not smarter, but certainly a lot tougher (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
bowser
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Hmmm... still no definitions.. We do know that it is not dweeby it just "get's old". That's fine... everything get's old but all you would have to do is not participate... certainly no reason for vehemence...
Ok, I'll try... A furball is anytime the enemy sees you. A furball is (air) combat between 2 or more planes. Furballs seem to cause dying which is a dweeby thing but, obviously.... K/D is not the measure of dweeby dying... Perhaps it is the time it takes to die? Maybe, sorties per death? Or, fun/hour ... too much fun per hour = dweeby furballing? Perhaps, kills or deaths per hour? A high number of either kills or deaths per hour meaning dweeby furballing?
lazs
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Really big furballs rock. I wish we had more of them. By far the best way to build SA. Go in low and slow and see if you can stay alive. The biggest furballs I see in AH are in scenarios. I've got a film of a merge from the Libya, 1942 scenario where we had 38 planes merging at about 15k. That was a blast!!!
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 11-20-2000).]
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My own definition of furball:
A group of planes, around 5 or more, who are dogfighting just to dogfight, with the only objective being to shoot the other guy down. Furballs usually end up 5k or less.
For me the critical difference to call it a furball is the apparent objective: dogfighting for the sake of dogfighting. Doing it away from any bases (or sometimes, even near a base). A melee of planes flying around without a clear objective. This definition is only slightly different than a furball over a field, where your objective is to cap the field, or on the other hand, remove the cap. To me, classic furballing is fighter vs. fighter, with nobody trying to take a base or defend a base; just a gaggle of planes shooting it out. Little-to-no coordination on either side, every man for himself, with the occasional wingman tactic.
Furballs are fun, if that's what you are looking for in your game. I like them from time to time.
Fury
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Funked said it well.
For me, furballs are when many people get together, get slap happy and smack each other around till there is one or none left standing. Be it that the "furball" lasts ten minutes or three hours. (Or until Joe-Blow two week trial zips in over head in his Lancaster of Doom and ruins it for both sides). Multi-plane engagements, furballs, are a blast. And I don't care who calls it what. It's my $29.95 per month and if they want to call it baking the noodle then they can call baking the noolde. I have fun, baking the noodle. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
- One Helluva Good Dweeb Westy
[100% natural. No additives or artificial sweeteners added]
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Furball:
Flying a typhoon near A37 just after a jabo run on V41, 8k level flight, outside gun banks empty, heading home. Suddenly, vis an enemy 190 at 10 o'clock, co-alt. He goes for the HO, I roll over, dive slightly after he passes, then zoom and reverse. This happens twice more but on the third pass, I am watching the 190 as he reverses quickly (ya sneaky bastidge (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)) instead of extending so I firewall the typhoon and extend away, diving a little to get him closer to the deck. I figure I have an advantage over the 190 down there. I dip port wings to check below me and I see hazed in his 190 with a 109 on his 6! Well here we go! I have a hot 190 on my arse and I am diving after the 109 to try to clear hazeds' 6. Round and round all 4 of us go, twisting, turning, chandelle's, half cuban eights (those are fun low and slow, hehe),scissors, you name it, we did it, man! I finally find myself close on the 109's 6 and light him up. Didn't kill him right away, but smoked him good and made him leave the fight. Good enough for me. I think he attempted to ditch but the kill was awarded to me. I start looking for that pesky 190 again. Lol, hazed has him zeroed in and caps him. Hazed and I head for home.
That was a furball!
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Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site (http://home.earthlink.net/~bkapache)
[This message has been edited by Apache (edited 11-20-2000).]
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Thought it was one of those ugly hair dwarfs cats tend to hack up occasionally.? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
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hmm funked... have to take a look at them there scenario thingies. In the OTHER sim... scenarios were just a bunch of people waiting around or flying endless formations with maybe one fight in an hour.
as for flying around with no other purpose than to dogfite.... I would claim that dogfiting was the purpose of fighters. Even under the pretense of escorting or attacking bombers the real purpose was.... to kill fighters. Many sorties were designed simply to attack and kill other fighters and the target of choice for fighters was allways..... other fighters. With no particular 'purpose' other than to kill another fighter.
Apache has described a furball perfectly to me. I can see tho where that kind of excitement should be avoided as it could lead to too much fun.
lazs
[This message has been edited by -lazs- (edited 11-20-2000).]
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If I wanted to fly in furballs, I'd go fly Fighter Ace Free-for-all. War is about taking territory, not "how many of their planes can we kill."
Furballs are repetitive and boring, and serve no purpose. Just my $.02
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
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a furball?
Chewie. Well, not exacty a "ball", but "fur", he has loads of it.
And loads of hair too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(I'd better hide my arms next time I meet Chewbacca...I want to keep them linked to my body (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
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Raub then dont get into a furball. For many of us they are quiet fun and entertaining. I like to do both depending on what mood I am in. If I dont feel like takeing bases then you will see me in the middle of the biggest furball I can find. My definition of a furball is a freaking free for all. No wingman just you against the enemy horde. SA is a must and I find most people that dont like furballs dont have very good SA or ACM.
LLB OUT!!!! and looking for fur...............
[This message has been edited by llbm_MOL (edited 11-20-2000).]
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Originally posted by llbm_MOL:
Raub then dont get into a furball.
Don't worry, the only time I waste my time on them is to help out a teammate.
SA is a must and I find most people that dont like furballs dont have very good SA or ACM.
lol nice stereotype, what'd you do some kind of scientific study to corroborate this finding? So, you're telling me ACM is more important in a furball than in a 1 vs 1 fight? There's more to ACM than turning round and round and doing endless loops. Outmanuevering a guy when he knows its just you and him is much more difficult.
I'm assuming you have data to back up this finding?
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
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Originally posted by -lazs-:
hmm funked... have to take a look at them there scenario thingies. In the OTHER sim... scenarios were just a bunch of people waiting around or flying endless formations with maybe one fight in an hour.
as for flying around with no other purpose than to dogfite.... I would claim that dogfiting was the purpose of fighters. Even under the pretense of escorting or attacking bombers the real purpose was.... to kill fighters. Many sorties were designed simply to attack and kill other fighters and the target of choice for fighters was allways..... other fighters. With no particular 'purpose' other than to kill another fighter.
Apache has described a furball perfectly to me. I can see tho where that kind of excitement should be avoided as it could lead to too much fun.
lazs
[This message has been edited by -lazs- (edited 11-20-2000).]
Lazs I've flown in 3 frames of Afrika. I have yet had to fly more than 20 minutes before running into enemy aircraft. errrrmm albeit a numerically superior one each time..
AKSKurj
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"Outmanuevering a guy when he knows its just you and him is much more difficult."
Raub,
In a furball, you're fighting someone 1 vs 1 WHILE at the same time trying to keep track of the other 4-8 cons. You can outfly the con you're tangled up with 1 vs 1, then get blasted by another con who has caught you unaware. Much harder then 1 vs 1 where SA is not an immediate concern.
After getting killed 4-5 times straight in a big furball, I'll take a break and look for a 1 vs 1..much more relaxing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
bowser
[This message has been edited by bowser (edited 11-20-2000).]
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Been flying sims for a long time, in my opinion furballs take less skill than 1 vs 1. It is far easier to rack up kills in a furball than in a 1 vs 1. You can always catch someone unaware and tear em apart with a quick burst. Doing that to a guy who knows you're there is tougher. In a furball, any newbie in a Chog with a trigger finger can get kills just by pointing in a general direction and spraying away. Does that take skill? Different strokes for different folks....I'm just sayin if I wanted non-stop frag fest flying, I wouldn't have left FA.
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
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raub.. I never see 1 vs 1 in AH and it would be pretty unrealistic in any case... It just never happened. Most fights were at least 4-8 planes with 30-100 very common. Our melee's (furballs) are much too small to be historical. Seems that in AH we either have a good mixed furball or a vultch or some chance 1 vs 1 high alt or out of the way fight.... Of all those options it would seem that furballs offer the most fun and realism.
If you want 1 vs 1 then you don't really need to play in any arena do you? head to head would be the ultimate.
As for it being about taking territory... You're kidding right? So few real fighter sorties had anything to do with taking and holding territory that it wasn't even a factor. Air superiority was the poing and that meant killintg the other guys fighters.
But.... I am willing to listen... What do you think is a fun way for people to play the game?
lazs
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A 1 vs 1 can be tough. But keeping your situational awareness in a multi-plane engagment ("furball") is much, MUCH harder.
ACM without SA is simply tossing yourself silly about the sky. ACM with SA is outdancing your opponant(s).
-Westy
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Lazs, I agree with you. Furballs are the best, next to actually accomplishing somthing. Many times I'm in one of those "raids" in which we *ATTEMPT* to take an enemy base, however poor planning or lack of a goon driver usually destroys the planned attack. I "grew up" in CK/WB, and furballs were abundant. Nothing like taking off, flying to get a little alt and in the distance you see 10 or so dots fighting along the ground. You grab your nutz and sling 'em over your shoulder diving into the mess chanting to yourself "Another one bites the dust" as you rack up amazing kills and get into a few good scraps with some of the best. Adrenaline pumping, fast paced music in the background, sounds juiced up enough to give an earthquake in San Diego, and so much of your favorite drug in you that as planes blow apart around you leaving clouds of debri and guts you get a big toejam eating grin across your face wide enough to cross the atlantic on, yes furballs are f'in fun man.
-SW
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Originally posted by -lazs-:
raub.. I never see 1 vs 1 in AH
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You must be one of those weird mainland people (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Only about 10 people in the arena when i fly.
Air superiority was the poing and that meant killintg the other guys fighters.
And what do you think the point of air superiority is? It's to allow your ground forces to be successful. It's not just killing fighters for the hell of it.
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
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raub... yes i am on when there are over 100 people up. I believe that every pilot that flew in WWII wanted to achieve the ultimate.... shoot down another plane preferably, another fighter. Groups of 8-150 planes met and did combat. We are only capable of the lower number limit of those melees or "furballs" a pale imatation but fun if enough planes participate. 1 vs 1 is unrealistic in the extreme. 1 vs 1 may have occured in WWII when planes got seperated from the "furball". That is also possible in AH. Taking territorry in _AH is the unrealistic part not the melees.
aksea... yep... if i don't go through a quart of water per hour to cure my adreniline dry mouth then i get bored and leave.
lazs
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Hm, well, my take on what the fighters job is: to gain air superiority so that ground strikes can be executed with impunity.
I.e they're not there to furball with enemy fighters. They're there to make sure the mud movng can be done in an orderly fashion.
Of course, this involves furballs. That excuse is good enough for me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}