Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Minotaur on October 06, 2000, 10:05:00 PM
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I have rated figheter planes for Tour 8 using my "Composite Success Number" (CSN).
CSN = (K+D)*(K/D)/100
This number has no real value only a relative one, which I believe is indicative of:
- How much the plane gets used
- How successful the plane is when it is used
The ranking list is from best to worst Tour 8 stats. The first number is Tour 8 CSN and for comparison the second number is average CSN for Tours 4-8.
Rank Tour8 Average
F4U-1C 343 302
Spit IX 170 230
N1K2 162 152
P-51D 128 146
109G-10 92 118
190A-5 76 186
Yak-9U 54 30
P-47D30 53 132
Typh 1B 52 28
190A-8 46 74
P-38L 40 78
A6M5b 25 31
F4U-1D 25 15
Spit V 23 32
C.205 23 56
La5-FN 22 28
109G-6 13 13
P-47D25 11 28
109F-4 10 8
109G-2 9 10
C.202 1 2
Most noted change down
190A-5 76 186
P-47D30 53 132
P-38L 40 78
190A-8 46 74
C.205 23 56
P-47D25 11 28
Most noted change up
Yak-9U 54 30
Typh 1B 52 28
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble
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Mino,
Pull the ground vehicles and C-47's out of the K/D and see what you get.
Please
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Comparing the change in percent from Tour8 to the Tour4-8 average.
Change = (CSN_Tour8/CSN_Tour4-8_Ave)/100
This relative number is expressed in a percentage of change. Those planes with numbers greater than 100 show an improved CSN, while those with numbers less than 100 show a declining CSN. A number of 100 would indicate no change in CSN.
Specifically the changes were as follows:
Plane Change
F4U-1C 114
F4U-1D 172
P-38L 52
P-47D25 39
P-47D30 40
P-51D 88
Spit V 73
Spit IX 74
Typh 1B 185
C.202 67
C.205 40
A6M5b 79
N1K2 107
Yak-9U 147
La5-FN 80
109G-10 78
109G-6 98
109G-2 92
109F-4 128
190A-5 41
190A-8 63
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble
[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 10-06-2000).]
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The important question to ask is of all of the planes, were any of the differences statistically significant? If not, these pretty numbers are just that... pretty numbers and nothing more. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BTW nice work, Minotaur!
-- Todd/DMF
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Originally posted by Toad:
Mino,
Pull the ground vehicles and C-47's out of the K/D and see what you get.
Please
LOL (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
That would be just to much effort, however I do wish that HTC had a more multi-dimensionally query system for its stat data base. The data base display is pretty clumsy and clunky for what you get out of it.
Personal, if I could eliminate or add many factors I certainly would. One that comes to mind are K/D vs Ground vehicles. Also K/D vs assnine crashes that lead to death (like I do all the time) for no reason other than you get to re-spawn in 5 seconds.
Thanks for the feedback! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble
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Originally posted by Minotaur:
<snip>
This number has no real value only a relative one, which I believe is indicative of:
- How much the plane gets used
- How successful the plane is when it is used
<snip>[/b]
DMF;
I did spell out a nice disclaimer. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble
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Don't ask me why I did this. Curiousity I guess.
Below is the K/D and the CSN for all fighters considering Tour 8 only.
K/D with columns representing:
- Plane type
- Gross K/D score
- K/D for bombers and ground vehicles
- Corrected K/D for fighter vs fighter only
F4U-1C 1.68 1.42 1.80
F4U-1D 0.63 0.51 0.67
P-38L 0.62 0.57 0.64
P-47D25 0.87 0.61 0.98
P-47D30 0.84 0.62 0.93
P-51D 1.01 0.87 1.05
Spit V 0.66 0.56 0.67
Spit IX 0.98 0.77 1.03
Typh 1B 1.07 0.83 1.24
C.202 0.42 0.22 0.46
C.205 0.82 0.70 0.85
A6M5b 0.63 0.56 0.65
N1K2 1.19 1.16 1.20
Yak-9U 1.04 0.88 1.07
La5-FN 0.98 0.82 1.01
109G-10 1.07 1.01 1.09
109G-6 0.75 0.75 0.75
109G-2 1.02 0.95 1.03
109F-4 0.82 0.71 0.84
190A-5 1.21 1.10 1.24
190A-8 1.04 0.90 1.10
CSN with columns representing:
- Plane type
- Gross CSN score
- CSN for bombers and ground vehicles
- Corrected CSN for fighter vs fighter only
F4U-1C 343 35 262
F4U-1D 25 3 21
P-38L 40 6 31
P-47D25 11 1 9
P-47D30 53 6 44
P-51D 128 11 108
Spit V 23 2 20
Spit IX 170 12 149
Typh 1B 52 8 38
C.202 1 0 1
C.205 23 2 19
A6M5b 25 2 21
N1K2 162 11 138
Yak-9U 54 3 48
La5-FN 22 2 19
109G-10 92 10 73
109G-6 13 1 10
109G-2 9 1 8
109F-4 10 1 9
190A-5 76 6 63
190A-8 46 6 36
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble
[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 10-07-2000).]
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During my analysis I noticed that the Ostwind is absolutely kicking ass. N O N E of the fighters perform at a postive K/D compared to the Ostwind. In some case the K/D for the Ostwind exceeds 10 to 1.
Columns represent:
- Plane type vs Ostwind
- Plane Kill
- Plane Die
- Plane CSN vs Ostwind
F4U-1C 865 1746 18
F4U-1D 43 447 10
P-38L 107 613 13
P-47D25 24 140 3
P-47D30 141 691 13
P-51D 102 637 8
Spit V 13 157 3
Spit IX 107 737 11
Typh 1B 216 688 11
C.202 1 11 1
C.205 6 115 2
A6M5b 28 220 4
N1K2 61 459 4
Yak-9U 10 169 2
La5-FN 7 67 1
109G-10 30 377 4
109G-6 2 89 1
109G-2 1 33 0
109F-4 6 66 1
190A-5 59 291 3
190A-8 89 384 5
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble
[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 10-07-2000).]
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More analysis suggests that of all the planes that fly around the MA only one enjoys varying degrees of success.
Some times this plane has limited success when no other plane has any.
Some times this plane just blows away all the competion.
F4U-1C
Has to be the guns, big surprize? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble
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Tour 8:
The Ostwind has 11584 kills and has been killed 5122 times
The Panzer IV H has 4457 kills and has been killed 2860 times
Tour 9:
The Ostwind has 2799 kills and has been killed 2290 times
The Panzer IV H has 3249 kills and has been killed 2488 times
One week into the new tour and the panzer has already been killed nearly as much as it was in all of tour 8. The Osty should take a mere two weeks to match tour 8.
If it weren't for the Typhoon and the F4u-1C.. these numbers would simply be rediculous.
Play your stats game all you want. The truth is the F4u-1C is doing worse against fighters than it did in tour 8 by about 14%. Many other fighter stats are going up.... but I'll have more data on that tomorrow.
Let's see what the stats show me.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
<snip>
Play your stats game all you want. The truth is the F4u-1C is doing worse against fighters than it did in tour 8 by about 14%. Many other fighter stats are going up.... but I'll have more data on that tomorrow.
Let's see what the stats show me.
AKDejaVu
<snip>
AKDejaVu;
Seems that I hit a nerve, this was not my intent. Your post makes it sound like you are at odds with me. Why so sensitve? Did I state something untrue?
At any rate I'm looking forward to your analysis of the stats. It is my "This weeks hobby!".
Thanks! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble
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I think he's just as tired as me of the unending Hispano complaints that seemingly turn up in every thread.
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tour9:
AKDejaVu has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1C.
Seems that I hit a nerve, this was not my intent. Your post makes it sound like you are at odds with me. Why so sensitve? Did I state something untrue?
You didn't state anything mino. You still aren't. You introduce some new "factor" that is absolutely worthless and then refuse to take the time to factor out ground vehicles?... just noticed you did this later... though you still seem to include F4u-1CvsF4u-1C stats when comparing the aircraft.. a no-no.
Just what is your intent with these stats? You are introducing a set of numbers without actually considering what they mean. You only look at one particular set, then come off like everything else is irrelivant.
Are hispanos good? Yep.. best damn cannon in the game. Find anyone to argue that. Eliminate the hispano.. and you'll have to start finding the next gun in the game that has now become uber... so that can be eliminated too.
The truth is, the new strategy has forced an air-to-ground role. More F4u-1C and Typhoon missions are a result. Due to more exposure, people are learning to defend against ground forces and attack them. Osty's are not enjoying anything near the same K/D they did in tour 8 as a result.
So.. mino.. if I hit a nerve.. I'm sorry. But don't expect to throw out any set of numbers without having someone throw them back in your face.
AKDejaVu
[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 10-07-2000).]
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By the way Mino.. using your own formula, with bombers and ground vehicles removed, the F4u-1C's "CSN" is 136 (projected) for tour9. It was at 238 in tour 8 vs fighters.
AKDejaVu
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Oh.. by the way Mino.. you are factoring out the kills the F4u-1C has against itself too right? I mean you can't compare it to other aircraft if you are using its statistics against itself too.
AKDejaVu
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Ahh.. again these statistic blahblahs..
These statistics dont tell the truth (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Fishu:
Ahh.. again these statistic blahblahs..
These statistics dont tell the truth (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
AkDejaVu;
Relax Bud! Follow Fishu's advice. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I have been looking alot at the stats and comparing them. I sometimes post my results. I have been doing this since beta.
Did you actually take a close look at the stats I posted or just read F4U-1C and then decide to flame me?
The only reason I commented on the F4U-1C, because it has always came out on top. Why don't you get off your infantile spasodic knee jerk tantrum reaction and check the stats intellegently. I posted stats on every single fighter A/C. I did not single any out.
I pretty much clarified my postion saying that these stats are only reflective and relative. I left it open for the reader to make their own conclusion.
My fantasy number (CSN) is my approach at simplying this process for the reader.
I have several tours in my data base. How would you like it to be examined? My comment about the F4U-1C is honest. It rocks. It does well often when other A/C are dismal. My comment about the Ostwind was equally honest. It is doing really well also.
Everytime time I post up some stats, someone always tells me "Stats are worthless". This is wrong and and it is also right. Let me give you an example of wrong:
- First I give you $1,000
- I give 1 of 2 choices for gambling methods
1 - The P-38L method
2 - The P-51D method
Say you choose the P-38L method "because you like it" I choose the P-51D method "because I analysed the stats". After 40,000 or so rounds of gambling I have $1,200 you have $700.
Duh! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble