Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Otto on May 21, 2004, 03:14:07 PM
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A fellow 'Temple' grad make a lot of sense...
The Washington Post
May 21, 2004
Bill Cosby was anything but politically correct in his remarks at a Constitution Hall bash in Washington commemorating the 50th anniversary of the Brown vs. Board of Education decision. To everyone's astonishment, laughter and applause, Cosby mocked everything from urban fashion to black spending and speaking habits.
"Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal," he said Monday night. "These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids - $500 sneakers for what?
"And they won't spend $200 for 'Hooked on Phonics.' ...
"They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English," he said. "I can't even talk the way these people talk: 'Why you ain't.' 'Where you is.' ... And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk. ... Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. ... You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!"
When Cosby finally concluded, Howard University President H. Patrick Swygert, NAACP President Kweisi Mfume and NAACP legal defense fund head Theodore Shaw came to the podium looking stone-faced. Shaw told the crowd that most people on welfare are not African-American, and many of the problems his organization has addressed in the black community were not self-inflicted.
Copyright © 2004, Newsday, Inc.
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Its more of a Rich vs Poor situation than racial anymore. Cosby is just tired of people being so ignorant of basic education.
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Whoa. That's pretty intense. Strong words from a man who has come a long, long way since his childhood.
Interesting reaction from the other leaders as well.
This one is sure to have some consequences, but what exactly I have no idea.
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"These people marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an education and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around," he said Monday evening at an NAACP gala commemorating the anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education decision 50 years earlier.
"Take the neighborhood back," Cosby said, chiding parents who do not take an active role in caring for their children.
Please note that the Washington Post left out the above quote.
Smart man. I would love to see a transcript of the whole speech.
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I allways liked cosby...."dad is great...gave us a chocolate cake"
I remember watching him as a kid and he had the coolest marker or pen and he'd draw on a paper backround with it. Anyone remember the name of the show or the marker.
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Cant remember the name of that show for the life of me... gonna be bugging me all day now... thanks *******. :D
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Picture Pages! I don't remember the name of the marker, though.
Theme song! (http://www.mystiesplace.com/picturepages/PicturePages.mp3)
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"PICTURE PAGES ITS PICTURE PAGES ITS LOTS FUN W/ CRAYONS AND A PENCILE"
WOW.....that And nickoldean's "pinwheel", and Fragile rock were my favorite shows growing up.
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Frankly, the argument that being poor prevents getting an education or speaking gramatically is false.
I also don't buy into the argument that it's a cultural thing either. Those are just excuses to justify laziness and unwillingness to work for what you want out of life.
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Cosby is right.
Imagine teaching these kids how to use a period at the end of a sentence when their parents don’t speak in sentences. They have no natural instincts as to how proper English should sound. While their middle class peers are learning to write, they are just beginning the basics of speech.
eskimo
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Originally posted by Maverick
Frankly, the argument that being poor prevents getting an education or speaking gramatically is false.
I also don't buy into the argument that it's a cultural thing either. Those are just excuses to justify laziness and unwillingness to work for what you want out of life.
Yes this has nothing to do w/ being poor this has to do w/ a man speaking out at the way his culture is progressing in society.
I would never hire a kid who sat befor me and said "Yo man I really want dis job YO! I needs me a paycheck!"
I'd be like next. I know that's probably an extreme example......slang is fine if you know the regular language.
My wife speaks fluent German but she speaks lower German. For the longest time I had a hard time understanding that she had a really hard time understanding somone speaking Higher German.
This is kind of an example though I guess its just the slang/dialect is different unless somone from Germany has anything different to enlighten me with.
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Cosby is right. Ghetto phabulous is just that....ghetto and there's nothing phabulous about that. To say he forgot where he came from is dead wrong. I'm quite sure he remembers every single day he spent doing his homework, busting his prettythang to get good grades or his parents would have whipped him like there was no tommorrow.
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Originally posted by rpm371
Cosby is right. Ghetto phabulous is just that....ghetto and there's nothing phabulous about that. To say he forgot where he came from is dead wrong. I'm quite sure he remembers every single day he spent doing his homework, busting his prettythang to get good grades or his parents would have whipped him like there was no tommorrow.
DING DING DING DING
May the heavens open up and rain apon me his word. Somthing that RPM says that I agree with. :D
Sorry for being dramatic.
To be specific.....I think too many blacks in the US today are confused. They have this hip hop culture telling them one thing and another culture telling them another. I not at all saying that all black people are this nore am I being racist. I just see, since the 80s their culture just not heading for the better.
There was a guy on O'reily tonite who endorsed a boycott of rebock for sponsering .50 cent. A rapper who is a convicted drug dealer that raps about disrespect towards woman and hate.
This guys said this is not the role models we want for young black kids....he just gives them a bad idea about life. My thaughts exactly.
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You start by saying "too many black kids in the US today are confused".
You end by saying "[rappers like 50 cent] just gives them a bad idea about life."
So then.... The confused kids grow up to be the confusing rappers spawning a whole new generation of confused kids that grow up to be confusing rappers.
But if only it were that simple...
Yeah... it's all rap's fault.
"DING DING DING" my arse.
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You guys are talking about many generations that were completely disenfranchised. Sure, some guys are strong enough to fight their way through it and then miracle of miracles, stay in the neighborhood to raise their families.
But, if you can't see a way out and you have no peers or parents to point you in the right direction, the majority will get sucked right back in.
Tough problem and one entirely of our own (white society) creation.
curly
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All things being "equal" nowadays... not one of us would trade our upbringing for a black kid's in a million years... despite alla so-called equalness and the american dream and alla that.
That in itself, at least to me, shatters a delusion or two.
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Originally posted by Nash
You start by saying "too many black kids in the US today are confused".
You end by saying "[rappers like 50 cent] just gives them a bad idea about life."
So then.... The confused kids grow up to be the confusing rappers spawning a whole new generation of confused kids that grow up to be confusing rappers.
But if only it were that simple...
Yeah... it's all rap's fault.
"DING DING DING" my arse.
Nash you are right its not that simple....I oversteped here. Really what I am saying is that I agree with cosby. Kids today...white or black sit there an idolize with a drugdealer that has made a couple of million. what kind of message does that send to our KIDS?
I'm not saying its easy but I think....I THINK...this generation..white or black needs to take a look at themselves.
I saw a guy walkin down the street holding his pants......this guy was walking in his boxers carying his jeans wearing a white tank top (commonly referred to as a wife beater). Now did this guy look like somone I'd offer a ride to if neaded...NO! It doesnt matter if he was white black brown or purple he was a disgrace and I KNOW people have seen his type!
I'm not being racist here but the cultualist needs to prevail.....do they really want a rapper like .50 cent representing them?
On the flipside....I like Eminem but I dont want him representing me as a white man
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Well if ya wanna describe a black stereotype, you can do way worse than that.
Gimme a solution to Iraq and I'll give you a solution to US black culture.
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Yeah raping is bad but, rapping isnt the only music. The only influence rock is not that holly either. I say dont pinpoint it on rap or color i see white guys doing the same things that black guys do. At the end its what kids think is cool they think that is a style but,insted of critasizing them we should go out there show them that education is cool. we look up to the adults how we supposed to do that when yo uguys talking about us. How bout a little less talk and more action :aok thats whats going to change something.
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Originally posted by jetb123
Yeah raping is bad but, rapping isnt the only music.
Raping is even against the law, and rapping isn't even music.
Now Hank's stuff was music.(http://www.nashvillesongwritersfoundation.com/photos/hank_sr.gif)
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Let's not forget Waylon J. either :)
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Originally posted by Nash
Gimme a solution to Iraq and I'll give you a solution to US black culture.
I can solve both with one device but I ain't gonna go there. :D
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I can solve both with one device but I ain't gonna go there.
Ooh! Ooh! I know! Some of those Chinese finger puzzles, right?
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don't be silly.. it is not economic it is cultural/ethnic. I can understand poor white kids about 90% of the time.. If I can't then the hell with em. I can't understand any ghetto black lingo so the hell with em. It is up to them to make me understand when they are sitting across from me on a hiring bord not the other way around.
Cosby is right. I can understand Cosby when he talks.
lazs
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he's dead on in that speech and it's not just black kids. I hear my kids white, asian & Mexican friends speaking the same way. a lot to do with the music they listen too, and just what they think 'sounds cool'.
as a parent you just have to do your job and get a handle on it from the beginning. my kids are grounded if I hear the ghetto talk spewing from their mouths. Friends who come over will be sent home for it.
you speak English in my house. over the years I've even been OK with Russian, German, Chinese, Laotian, and Vietnamese. most any other languages are OK too, just don't come over speaking 'fluent ignorant'.
getting a good job and earning a decent living are hard enough without crippling yourself from the start.
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and that is the point... if you cripple yourself by your own hand then don't go on about injustice...
lazs
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Hey whatever Nash If you dont think kids need to learn proper english from thier parents thats your dumb opinion I guess.
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another thing I forgot to add.
often when discussions like this come up there is immediately a fall back to the argument that it is racial because the parents don't have the skills, so they are unable to make sure the kids have the skills.
BS, there are plenty of parents in my area from just about any nationality you would care to name. many of these parents speak little or no English themselves. these families have been in this country a very short time(with even the children born over-seas), and while a lot of the adults speak little English, the children speak it clearly, and without the ghetto trash lingo.
so while there is no doubt that it helps, it is not absolutely necessary for a parent to posses a skill in order to instill in their children the value of the skill.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
"PICTURE PAGES ITS PICTURE PAGES ITS LOTS FUN W/ CRAYONS AND A PENCILE"
WOW.....that And nickoldean's "pinwheel", and Fragile rock were my favorite shows growing up.
young pups! when I was growing up we hd 4 channels, and there was romper room then sesame street and that was about it except for bozo or captain kangaroo.
Then along came Fat Albert!! Yeah-buh! I-buh Loved-buh Fat-buh Alberts-buh.
After creating mushmouth, why is Bill busting on the dialects today? That guy was hardly understandable either.
"Tell Bill to have a coke and a smile and shut the **** up" - Richard Pryor hehe
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Hey whatever Nash If you dont think kids need to learn proper english from thier parents thats your dumb opinion I guess.
What if the parents don't speak english? Does his opinion get any smarter then?
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Raping is even against the law, and rapping isn't even music.
Now Hank's stuff was music.(http://www.nashvillesongwritersfoundation.com/photos/hank_sr.gif)
Hank - the original
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NO, read my last post above this for further explaination. ^^^
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
I can solve both with one device but I ain't gonna go there. :D
jeez dude - what are you saying?
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When my kids get all ebonic I get up in their grill and ask 'em what's shakin dawg? That busts a move on 'em.
But seriously folks....
If we hear 'axe' instead of 'ask' we correct it. Our kids know that proper English is very important to success. They also have no problem sounding like boyz from the hood when they hangin with the homies.
I think the real problem is parenting, or lack thereof. All generations have had slang. Where we are slipping today is that slang is taking an all encompassing role in the lives of too many kids. They learn nothing else and are exposed to nothing else. The richest people they ever meet or hear about are rappers or drug dealers.
Parents need to teach kids that bling ain't the thing.
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The inner city problems will only be solved at the lowest level, by parents. No amount of money, cultural acceptance, etc... ad nauseum will make the least bit of difference if parents don't take an active role in raising kids and instilling values to make them productive members of society. This idea that it takes a village to raise a child is wrong and dangerous.
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This great country was in large part built with immigrants. Often they didn't speak the language, or spoke it poorly after years. But they made DANG SURE the kids spoke it and spoke it RIGHT!
They made sure those kids WORKED to get ahead.
There was discrimination against them as well, in some cases worse than against the black community.
The difference is attitude. They were and still are determined to rise above.
There are those in the black community who have done likewise. Like cosby for example. He's showing them the way, they should listen.
The way is not to lay around dressing sloppy speaking slang listening to music that extols violence.
The way is to work work work,study & work some more. To aim higher than your parents while respecting what they did to get where they are.
Its not about skin color at all, its about attitude & ethics.
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Originally posted by AKIron
This idea that it takes a village to raise a child is wrong and dangerous.
only if you take it to the point of expecting the village to do the job for you and slack off on your end.
help from the people around me (my village, I guess) made my job as a parent much easier and more effective.
lots of little stuff that gave me an edge. things like knowing the garbage man who's route was on the way my kids took to school. (the look on an older sons face is priceless, when you describe exactly how he was bullying his sisters. when he knows both the wife and I where at work at the time)
the idea my kids where raised with- the idea that the wife and I had a network of spies in the world and that we would hear of anything they did, made our jobs much easier.
we (and many of the parents we knew) made it very clear that we had an eye on every kid in the area and wouldn't hesitate to let their parents know what they where up to.
as a parent you need all the help you can get (which is the point of the whole 'village' thing). it's just the village in addition to the parent, not instead of.
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Every time I hear that phrase I get the impression that the speaker is trying to assign responsibilty or blame. Certainly a community will enrich anyone's life, however, no one is likely to be valued by their community if their parents fail in their responsibility.
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In Hawaii a major portion of locals speak Pidgin. It’s every bit as bad as Ebonics and as hard to understand. Complete sentences to local Hawaiians are: “Go beach?” “Can!” and “Got da kine?” (kine being short for kind, meaning “thing” or any noun). Folks there have trouble communicating among themselves and don’t even realize that their form of language is vague and often misconstrued because it’s all they know. The worst part is that it is so commonplace that government workers and newscasters “talk local”. Even newspaper articles contain an abundance of errors.
When local kids move to the mainland to go to school they are often laughed at because they sound so stupid. I heard many accounts of kids moving back to Hawaii after one semester of college in the mainland US. They simply did not have the English skills to write a paper or ask a question in class.
eskimo
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I like Cosby alot. He is one of the few that manages to be very funny without all the bad words (not that i mind them). He can make you laugh without even opening his mouth or overdo everything. :)
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I ended up majoring in Spanish in college. Started out as a Psych major, but changed when the going got tough. Had to take 6 quarters of foreign lang. anyway in Arts and Sciences, as well as 6 quarters of English.
For me, Spanish was the easiest subject, and it was fun. I pretty much majored in that just so I could graduate. Everything else was hard, though I did enjoy some of the math classes, I was not all that good at it. Ideal thing for me would have been to study architecture, but college physics wasn't my cup of tea.
Anyway, I discovered a couple things about language. I learned more about English in two years of foreign lang. than I had learned in all the english classes before college.
Another thing is, language is very closely associated with culture of the native speakers. Many of our preliminary Spanish courses emphasized history and culture as an integral part of understanding the language. In other words, you have to think in Spanish. You can't think in English.
This is why there is so much difficulty learning English, unless you've lived here all your life. Immigrants and exchange students are exposed to a divirsity of cultures here in the US. The primary two are Spanish and English here.
All peoples are proud of their language and culture that goes with it. The two are not seperable.
Bottom line is, to learn English you have to accept and learn about English culture. And, to an extent, you have to be "user friendly", meaning you have respect for it.
Les
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English is an easy to learn language. It needs only about 600 words for a propper conversation. But it seems that lots of the 'new generation' (lol...scary) wants to come along with only 300 words?
I wonder how much they can reduce it to the max.
I remember a scientific report on tv where a monkey was able to comunicate in signs with about 300 words.
Hell...where are we going to?
I notice this trend here in germany too.
Ecke
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Originally posted by Ecke-109-
English is an easy to learn language. It needs only about 600 words for a propper conversation. But it seems that lots of the 'new generation' (lol...scary) wants to come along with only 300 words?
I wonder how much they can reduce it to the max.
I remember a scientific report on tv where a monkey was able to comunicate in signs with about 300 words.
Hell...where are we going to?
I notice this trend here in germany too.
Ecke
same here..they call it the sms language.
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Originally posted by strk
What if the parents don't speak english? Does his opinion get any smarter then?
What if nash puts on lipstick and runs through the town singing "I feel pretty"
We are talking about english speaking people that are not properly teaching their kids to communicate. We are not talking about people who speak spanish and making them conform that is an entirely different subject.
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If Nash did that in New York City, I doubt anyone would notice.:D
Les
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Seriously, people stereotype you by your language. Stereotyping is a natural phenomenon concocted by the human brain, and is part of our survival mechanisms. As I pointed out before, language and culture are peas in a pod. Violent, loud and purposeful misuse of language (foul language) is a fairly accurate reflection of the culture it belongs to. This is science and cold hard facts far as stereotyping goes. There's nothing right or wrong about it, that's just the way it is if you have a human brain. That's how the brain works. If you want to get along well with people, you got to be cool. All the time. And smart people know this.
Les
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strk... where do you live? behind some gated community? Here is California we have mexicans to go along with our blacks. Now, some of these mexicans are first generation U.S. and they speak both languages perfectly... we also have wanna beees who are 4 genmeration U.S. (longer than me) who have cultivated a spanish/mexican accent to assure their falure in life.
Some blacks here speak zombie and some speak proper english...
MT is correct and it is a prenting thing.. but we have welfared the parents out of the equation. even if they manage to have a two parent household they will be surrounded by welfare zombies.
I am surprised that no one has told Cosby that he isn't black enough anymore.
lazs
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“Go beach?” “Can!” and “Got da kine?” (kine being short for kind, meaning “thing” or any noun). [/B]
Uh dood - you might want to check your definition of "Kine" because a phrase like "got da kine?" is much more likely to mean "can you get me a bag of some really stanky sticky kind buds?"
Hawaii's pidgin may be rampant and hard to understand but I seriously doubt the word "kind" has that different a meaning in Hawaii compared to the rest of the country.
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Originally posted by lazs2
strk... where do you live? behind some gated community? Here is California we have mexicans to go along with our blacks. Now, some of these mexicans are first generation U.S. and they speak both languages perfectly... we also have wanna beees who are 4 genmeration U.S. (longer than me) who have cultivated a spanish/mexican accent to assure their falure in life.
Some blacks here speak zombie and some speak proper english...
MT is correct and it is a prenting thing.. but we have welfared the parents out of the equation. even if they manage to have a two parent household they will be surrounded by welfare zombies.
I am surprised that no one has told Cosby that he isn't black enough anymore.
lazs
I live just south of the reaches of the yankee suburbs of northern virginia. We have lots of hispanics, and asians moving into the area. I find the first generation pretty hard to understand because they either dont know very much english and/or it is very heavily accented complicated by the fact that I dont know any asian languages and very little espanol.
I know what you mean about the second generation and I have known a few, including a close friend, who speak english and their home language perfectly.
But in the hispanic areeas which usually consist of really poor migrant and agricultural factory workers (canning and such) their language problems permeate the second and third generations. THe problems are 1) they are concerned with survival 2)alot of times the kids dont go to school or immigrated themselves and 3)there is such a large population that they can live their lives without speaking english.
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Originally posted by Leslie
If Nash did that in New York City, I doubt anyone would notice.:D
Les
Probably get propositioned for a "date".
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I think we may have had a little more experiance with mexicans here in California. Where is Hispain by the way?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
Where is Hispain by the way?
lazs
Here(Queens) that would be everything from Woodside to Corona. Great food though:aok
And of course...the chicas:D
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so hispanics are from new york city? that would explain a lot.
lazs
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Originally posted by strk
Uh dood - you might want to check your definition of "Kine" because a phrase like "got da kine?" is much more likely to mean "can you get me a bag of some really stanky sticky kind buds?"
Hawaii's pidgin may be rampant and hard to understand but I seriously doubt the word "kind" has that different a meaning in Hawaii compared to the rest of the country.
Like I said, the locals that I ran into used the word "kine" as a generic substitute for any noun. Often for dope, but more often for anything imaginable: a surfboard, car, fish, sand, rice, or anything. Kind of how teenage girls use the word "thingy".
eskimo
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:rolleyes: @ this entire thread. As a young black male, I find this thread ridiculous. I respect Bill Cosby for what he has accomplished, but as far as I'm concerned he could have saved those comments that he made about the need to speak English. Believe it or not, most blacks don't speak Ebonics. I'll just give you guys a run down on how most black people feel about topics like things like this.
1. We absolutely hate it when an African American celebrity gets on television to give these "Let's uplift our people" speeches about how blacks need to stop speaking in Ebonics and get off welfare, etc. Truth be told, most of us are already doing that. They just get in the national spotlight and make it seem as if we're all in the ghetto, which leads to topics and discussions like this among Caucasians.
2. Even the blacks that do speak slang or Ebonics are not all ignorant. Slang is just a way for people to communicate with each other in a way that's comfortable to us. Just because I speak slang dosen't mean that I have a gun in my jacket and I'm ready to rob someone. Think about it, most of you guys speak slang also. Ex, "I just HO'd a noob over HQ". That's slang also. Does that mean you're a street person or ignorant? Not at all. It's just our way of communicating with each other when flying. Think about that the next time you're ready to label someone because of the way that they speak.
3. The most important thing! Stop watching so much television and thinking that all blacks behave a certain way. These rappers rap about females and drugs because that's how they make their money. I don't condone it at all, but that's why they're called ENTERTAINERS. Just because someone raps about selling drugs dosen't mean that they're going to the corner to sell drugs right after they leave the recording studio.
Carry on..........
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Wait, are you saying that not all of them negroes are the same???
That those scary rap guys don't represent the majority of black people?? But stereotyping is so much easier.
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Originally posted by stiehl
Wait, are you saying that not all of them negroes are the same???
That those scary rap guys don't represent the majority of black people?? But stereotyping is so much easier.
That's the type of isht that we find offensive. Thanks for proving my point.
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But what about THAT stereotype? That's where my almost half black genes are bound up:D
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Originally posted by stiehl
But what about THAT stereotype? That's where my almost half black genes are bound up:D
:rolleyes: School's out and summer is in full swing
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Originally posted by SoulzofAW3
:rolleyes: School's out and summer is in full swing
BAH!! you're no fun
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I'm a lot of fun....I'm just not amused by silly sh_t
Carry on..........
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High and mighty from someone that claims to know "how most black people feel". Didn't know that you were correspondence with "most black people" in America, or is that worldwide? Rap guys don't represent the majority of black people but you do??
Carry on..........
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Originally posted by stiehl
High and mighty from someone that claims to know "how most black people feel". Didn't know that you were correspondence with "most black people" in America, or is that worldwide? Rap guys don't represent the majority of black people but you do??
Carry on..........
LOL @ this guy trying to prove me wrong. I could sit here and explain in detail to you what I meant, but I won't. You wouldn't understand. It seems that you don't want to understand either. You just want to prove me wrong and contend that all blacks are in fact slang talking, corner hanging, lowlifes. It's amazing how many middle aged Caucasians are in tune with black culture.
Carry on........
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Originally posted by SoulzofAW3
2. Even the blacks that do speak slang or Ebonics are not all ignorant. Slang is just a way for people to communicate with each other in a way that's comfortable to us. Just because I speak slang dosen't mean that I have a gun in my jacket and I'm ready to rob someone. Think about it, most of you guys speak slang also. Ex, "I just HO'd a noob over HQ". That's slang also. Does that mean you're a street person or ignorant? Not at all. It's just our way of communicating with each other when flying. Think about that the next time you're ready to label someone because of the way that they speak.
I agree with most of your post, but would like to point out a few things about the part I'm quoting here.
while not all who speak that way are ignorant, they sound that way, communicate that way and might as well be ignorant. if you can't share your ideas with the world in an intelligent fashion they do you no good. you could be Albert Einstein on the inside, but if you can't get your ideas out, then for all practical purposes you are a dumb-ass.
as far as the rest of it. sure there is nothing wrong with slang in a certain context. I use slang in flight-sim, where everyone knows what I'm talking about, I use another 'slang' at work, we have terms for tools and procedures that would get a blank look from anyone not in the industry.
here's the big difference- I don't use my work 'slang' when off work or away from my co-workers, I don't use flight-sim slang when away from my PC or other flight simmers. and above all I can speak English clearly when I'm in a setting where it is appropriate.
I have no problem with kids speaking slang when hanging out with their friends, or even in music (fact is if it where limited to that I'd have never heard it anyway). but it's all over the schools and many young kids come to work speaking like that. it gets them labeled as a dumb-ass right away and it effects the opportunities they are given.
IMO the inability (or unwillingness) to speak clearly holds young black kids back much more than the color of their skin. it holds some white kids back too but they don't have the luxury of blaming it on skin color.
we get new apprentices fairly regularly and I generally get to pick which ones I want to work with. since I often do more detailed work with a much higher opportunity for an apprentice to learn. many who don't get picked by me (or others who do similar work) end up spending the majority of their day doing manual labor, with very little to learn or advance themselves.
I don't let the color of a mans skin effect who I choose, but I will not pick someone who gives the appearance of stupidity, or chooses to be difficult to communicate with. I say chooses, because I will and have taken apprentices who are deaf, or new to the country and still working on their English, but by the time a man reaches 20yrs old in this country, and gone through a school system that I've paid for, if he still can't speak this language clearly then I'll take the easy route, slap a dumb-ass label on him and forget about him. maybe you're right, maybe down deep he's a genius, you dig for it, I don't have the time.
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HHHmmm... and where did I contend that all blacks are in fact slang talking, corner hanging, lowlifes??
As for "Wait, are you saying that not all of them negroes are the same???
That those scary rap guys don't represent the majority of black people?? But stereotyping is so much easier."
That's a little thing called sarcasm, here (http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entries/84/s0088400.html) , you can look it up.
middle aged Caucasians.... good thing that I'm neither. But then again, I guess I'll never understand since I'm not the representative of black America.
Carry on........
EDIT: Funny thing, I was agreeing with you, but you decided to hop around acting indignant.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
I agree with most of your post, but would like to point out a few things about the part I'm quoting here.
while not all who speak that way are ignorant, they sound that way, communicate that way and might as well be ignorant. if you can't share your ideas with the world in an intelligent fashion they do you no good. you could be Albert Einstein on the inside, but if you can't get your ideas out, then for all practical purposes you are a dumb-ass.
as far as the rest of it. sure there is nothing wrong with slang in a certain context. I use slang in flight-sim, where everyone knows what I'm talking about, I use another 'slang' at work, we have terms for tools and procedures that would get a blank look from anyone not in the industry.
here's the big difference- I don't use my work 'slang' when off work or away from my co-workers, I don't use flight-sim slang when away from my PC or other flight simmers. and above all I can speak English clearly when I'm in a setting where it is appropriate.
I have no problem with kids speaking slang when hanging out with their friends, or even in music (fact is if it where limited to that I'd have never heard it anyway). but it's all over the schools and many young kids come to work speaking like that. it gets them labeled as a dumb-ass right away and it effects the opportunities they are given.
IMO the inability (or unwillingness) to speak clearly holds young black kids back much more than the color of their skin. it holds some white kids back too but they don't have the luxury of blaming it on skin color.
we get new apprentices fairly regularly and I generally get to pick which ones I want to work with. since I often do more detailed work with a much higher opportunity for an apprentice to learn. many who don't get picked by me (or others who do similar work) end up spending the majority of their day doing manual labor, with very little to learn or advance themselves.
I don't let the color of a mans skin effect who I choose, but I will not pick someone who gives the appearance of stupidity, or chooses to be difficult to communicate with. I say chooses, because I will and have taken apprentices who are deaf, or new to the country and still working on their English, but by the time a man reaches 20yrs old in this country, and gone through a school system that I've paid for, if he still can't speak this language clearly then I'll take the easy route, slap a dumb-ass label on him and forget about him. maybe you're right, maybe down deep he's a genius, you dig for it, I don't have the time.
I agree with most of what you said. If anyone comes into a job interview or the workplace speaking slang or Ebonics, then that's ignorant as you stated. I was just making the point that it's not fair to label everyone who speaks slang as being ingnorant. Also, I never stated that everyone who speaks slang is a genius. I just made the point that everyone who speaks slang isn't a lowlife either. If that's the case, we're all bums for saying things like "vulching" and "fying NOE".:aok
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Originally posted by stiehl
HHHmmm... and where did I contend that all blacks are in fact slang talking, corner hanging, lowlifes??
As for "Wait, are you saying that not all of them negroes are the same???
That those scary rap guys don't represent the majority of black people?? But stereotyping is so much easier."
That's a little thing called sarcasm, here (http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entries/84/s0088400.html) , you can look it up.
middle aged Caucasians.... good thing that I'm neither. But then again, I guess I'll never understand since I'm not the representative of black America.
Carry on........
It really dosen't matter if it was meant as sarcasm or not. I don't know the type of people that you normally communicate with, but you shouldn't just go around and say offensive things, throw a "sarcasm" on it and think that everything is fine. You have things totally screwed up. Also, I never stated that I was the representative of African Americans. You just exaggerated that. Oh, maybe it was just "sarcasm" again. I'm speaking on behalf of the people that I know and what we talk about. Step outside of your box and visit African American themed websites and see some of the opinions on there. You'll see what I mean when I say a lot of blacks feel a certain way.
Carry on........
EDIT: Funny thing, I was agreeing with you, but you decided to hop around acting indignant.
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You were talking about people not representing the whole of a kind of people while giving us a run down on how most of those people really feel. I just found that ironic.
I guess that you're sensitive on this type of issue so if I truely offended, I apologize.
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no one has said that "all blacks" do anything. The fact of the matter is that many blacks don't speak english that is recognizble or that sounds halfway bright.
You don't like whites discussing it? too frioggin bad. We will talk about whatever we want. We can still do that, sort of, in this country. Your whining about it puts me off... and a lot of white folks if you want to know but....
even tho I am 100 % white (so far as I know) I don't pretend to know what all white rfolks think.
Thing is... most of us agree but some of us let our sensitivity get in the way.
lazs
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Originally posted by SoulzofAW3
:rolleyes: @ this entire thread. As a young black male, I find this thread ridiculous. I respect Bill Cosby for what he has accomplished, but as far as I'm concerned he could have saved those comments that he made about the need to speak English. Believe it or not, most blacks don't speak Ebonics. I'll just give you guys a run down on how most black people feel about topics like things like this.
1. We absolutely hate it when an African American celebrity gets on television to give these "Let's uplift our people" speeches about how blacks need to stop speaking in Ebonics and get off welfare, etc. Truth be told, most of us are already doing that. They just get in the national spotlight and make it seem as if we're all in the ghetto, which leads to topics and discussions like this among Caucasians.
2. Even the blacks that do speak slang or Ebonics are not all ignorant. Slang is just a way for people to communicate with each other in a way that's comfortable to us. Just because I speak slang dosen't mean that I have a gun in my jacket and I'm ready to rob someone. Think about it, most of you guys speak slang also. Ex, "I just HO'd a noob over HQ". That's slang also. Does that mean you're a street person or ignorant? Not at all. It's just our way of communicating with each other when flying. Think about that the next time you're ready to label someone because of the way that they speak.
3. The most important thing! Stop watching so much television and thinking that all blacks behave a certain way. These rappers rap about females and drugs because that's how they make their money. I don't condone it at all, but that's why they're called ENTERTAINERS. Just because someone raps about selling drugs dosen't mean that they're going to the corner to sell drugs right after they leave the recording studio.
Carry on..........
Well said but don't put too much energy into this Bbs, it's not a forum for learning, just a platform for some to spew their moral feces for worldwide consumption...
No thank you, I just ate...
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<--- middle aged white guy
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Originally posted by midnight Target
<--- middle aged white guy
hey is Ed561 still in your squad?
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This does not fit the Eddie Murphy image I had of Bill Cosby.
IIIIIIIIiiii do not like the filth fly filth fly filth that you said to my son.... Iiiiiiii...
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
hey is Ed561 still in your squad?
Don't know that name.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Don't know that name.
He was in the Nightmares, back in 2002 I think....you a rook squad?
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Yep Rook.
looked at the active and inactive roster (goes way back to AWFW days) and no Ed561.
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Originally posted by lazs2
no one has said that "all blacks" do anything. The fact of the matter is that many blacks don't speak english that is recognizble or that sounds halfway bright.
You don't like whites discussing it? too frioggin bad. We will talk about whatever we want. We can still do that, sort of, in this country. Your whining about it puts me off... and a lot of white folks if you want to know but....
even tho I am 100 % white (so far as I know) I don't pretend to know what all white rfolks think.
Thing is... most of us agree but some of us let our sensitivity get in the way.
lazs
:rolleyes: Some people.............
Carry on............
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SoulzofAW3 is right just cause we African Americans talk slang doesnt mean we are ignorant. Do you guys know that dude,ratical,rad,cool, etc. All those words are slang mostly used by Causians,but we dont say you they are ignorant cause off that it's just a better way to talk we are not the only race that talks slang. Also instead off just talking about us wont you guys get up and do somthing about it. Not like Bill Cosby trying to do nothing he probally said that for publictity:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by jetb123
it's just a better way to talk
I guess. if you consider perpetuating stereotypes about intellect, and interfering with your ability to get employment on par with your abilities "better".
I could be out of line. does "better" now have a different meaning than the one I grew up with?
Bill Cosby had some excellent advice to any who would care to listen.
you look at all of your successful American Blacks (with the exception of some performers who don't really have to deal with people in the business world). the one thing that they all have in common in that they all can speak English clearly.
there's nothing wrong with knowing how to speak slang. but if you don't know when or how to turn it off, you are crippling yourself, Cosby was just trying to point it out to you.
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Originally posted by jetb123
Not like Bill Cosby trying to do nothing
Bill has given like a bajillion educational charities and universites. Including founding the Ennis William Cosby Foundation with his wife.
I think slang is fine, as long as it's used in a appropriate setting. AH jargon, for when you are playing or discussing AH with people that are playing and discussing AH. Ebonics for when you are socialising with friends, family or what have you.
But if you only know how to speak AH jargon or Ebonics, then you are going to get ****ed when you use in an inappropriate setting, such as a professional one.
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if you are speaking like a moron and then can't figure out why people shun and dislike you... then you are indeed ignorant.
pooor widddle black boys... nobody understands you.
I find your black culture phony and silly. I can't help it... that is what it appears to be. Not only that but I liken it to shooting yourself in the foot.
Now, you may not like my opinion but a lot of people hold it. even the pandering liberals think you are silly once they get away from you. They are just as phony as you are.
I may be wrong for feeling the way I do but there really is no right and wrong in this case only what is. I feel a lot more inclined to likeing a black person who acts more like everyone else than one who has 10- generations of American citizenship and pretends to be apart.
lazs
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"your Black culture"
Do you mean celebrating African roots? Do you mean enjoying different music? What the heck are you talking about here lazs?
My grandparents were Italian. Their house looked like an Italian house. They enjoyed Italian music and hobbies. They spoke better Italian than English. They ate Italian, excuse me, great Italian food. No one gave them grief for acting this way.
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None of these people we are talking about speak african. The "culture" has nothing to do with their roots and most have no idea what africa is about... if they did they would be ashamed to be part of it with it's history of slavery and genocide.
We aren't talking about african music and we aren't talking about 1st or second generation Americans here.
My grandfather was from Scotland... he knew that to do well he had to fit in.. His dad would beat his butt if he spoke with and accent... and accent that in those days was a good way to speak if you liked to fail.
I think you know the difference. The current "black culture" is a culture based on Americans seperating themselves from the mainstream... it has nothing to do with africa.
lazs
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Is it Americans seperating themselves from the mainstream or the result of Americans not being allowed to be a part of mainstream until recently?
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makes no difference really...
well... that's not entirely true.. If you are seperated out of society it is even more important to tryu to fit in.
making an effort to seperate yourself when you have no real power or numbers is for fools.
lazs
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Trying to fit in got people beaten and lynched for being a uppity n*****or ch*** or k*** or whatever. Banding together was the only way to survive. So now we have a bunch of cultures within the American Culture.
What is "mainstream" society anyway? What does a person have to do to fit in??
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Originally posted by stiehl
Trying to fit in got people beaten and lynched for being a uppity n*****or ch*** or k*** or whatever. Banding together was the only way to survive. So now we have a bunch of cultures within the American Culture.
What is "mainstream" society anyway? What does a person have to do to fit in??
Now we're back to Bill Cosby's point. He said that a lot of people endured rock throwing so that they could fit in and get an education to better themselves. His anger is directed at those pissing it away.
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very emotional but lousy arguement...
martin luther king spoke perfect english and wore suits and talked about fitting in. He did more to sway whites than a thousand malcom x's.
how has rap and ebonics furthered race relations? As a white man I find both alternately silly and disgusting. I am not alone... sorry... that's just the way it is. I feel the same way about purple and green spikey hair and nose rings and multiple peircings...
I spent my youth on a Harley.. back when we weren't 'quite" as accepted... I understood the animosity toward me... When I wanted out of that dead end I changed. Admitedly, I didn't have to change my skin color but some of my nazi tattoos are/were pretty offputting to some but... if I spoke clearly and wasn't sullen and dressed non threateningly... people responded. In fact they were relieved it seems... I think the same thing applies to anyone.
lazs
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It pisses me off when white people think all blacks talk "slang". I'm Black and I talk without using "Slang".
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OTOH...
I was listening to some talk radio the other day and the guy was asking Black folks to call in and give their feelings on the Cosby quote.
I realize they screen calls, but almost to a person this was the sentiment: "Cosby is right of course, but he shouldn't have said it in public", or "I agree with him, but he should have kept it in the family".
Family? Public? Daayyaam! If he's right it shoud be shouted from the freakin rooftops and broadcast repeatedly until people listen!
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Originally posted by midnight Target
OTOH...
"I agree with him, but he should have kept it in the family".
Sounds like sepretist talk to me.
Keep it in the family.
What family the "Black" family?
I aint pointing fingers MT Just bringing up a point that biggotry can often go both ways.
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Originally posted by txmx
Sounds like sepretist talk to me.
Keep it in the family.
What family the "Black" family?
I aint pointing fingers MT Just bringing up a point that biggotry can often go both ways.
You're right. The only pointing you're doing is at your inability to comprehend written English.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
You're right. The only pointing you're doing is at your inability to comprehend written English.
Really I was just asking a question?
And the best you can do is be a smartarse.
Well you are missing one half of that pie there ARSE.
We have now traded insults across the internet is our manhood any bigger now?
My question was and Is by that quote it almost sounded as If the person speaking it was indeed seperating them selves from
who ever was not in there "family" now my question is the "family" in question Blacks in general? or that persons mother , father ect:
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Originally posted by midnight Target
You're right. The only pointing you're doing is at your inability to comprehend written English.
he doesn't get it !!!!!
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by jay1988
It pisses me off when white people think all blacks talk "slang". I'm Black and I talk without using "Slang".
Statements like this can be part of the problem.
You statement could be interpreted:
“It pisses me off when ALL white people think all blacks talk "slang".”
Or:
“It pisses me off when SOME white people think all blacks talk "slang".”
The exact same problem exists when white people make statements about black people.
Which statement did you mean?
eskimo
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Originally posted by storch
he doesn't get it !!!!!
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Some people never grow out of the BRAT stage.
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Originally posted by txmx
Really I was just asking a question?
And the best you can do is be a smartarse.
Well you are missing one half of that pie there ARSE.
We have now traded insults across the internet is our manhood any bigger now?
My question was and Is by that quote it almost sounded as If the person speaking it was indeed seperating them selves from
who ever was not in there "family" now my question is the "family" in question Blacks in general? or that persons mother , father ect:
You ever heard somebody tell a really funny joke, then have to explain it to someone line by line because they didn't get it? It sucks the funny right out of the joke. Explaining my post would also suck in many ways.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
You ever heard somebody tell a really funny joke, then have to explain it to someone line by line because they didn't get it? It sucks the funny right out of the joke. Explaining my post would also suck in many ways.
SO in other words you cant answer my question?
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Won't
that would be different than can't.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
OTOH...
I was listening to some talk radio the other day and the guy was asking Black folks to call in and give their feelings on the Cosby quote.
I realize they screen calls, but almost to a person this was the sentiment: "Cosby is right of course, but he shouldn't have said it in public", or "I agree with him, but he should have kept it in the family".
Family? Public? Daayyaam! If he's right it shoud be shouted from the freakin rooftops and broadcast repeatedly until people listen!
:aok
absolutely.
one sure way to know if you have an unreasonable view or expectations out of the world. one sure way to know if you're trying to improve things or just find someone else to blame your failures on.
if you feel the truth is threatening to your position or your goals, you are either a con-artist or delusional.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Won't
that would be different than can't.
No that would be silly and stubborn
But thats your right.
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jay... I do not believe that all blacks speak ebonics or slang. I have dealt with many who do not. All I am saying is that if you are black you should not make your life more difficult by not speaking proper or, American english.
If you speak ebonics or slang the best you can hope for is that whites think you are a criminal or an idiot ... many will be threatened by it. These are not things that help your cause unless your cause is masochistic.
I am not saying that any of this is right or wrong or moral... only that it is the way it is. Cosby understands that.
lazs
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"surfer talk"="metalhead talk"="valley girl talk"="rapper talk"
All sound stupid and limit your opportunities if thats the only way you speak.
Only one way gets "defended"
Wonder why?
BB
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Originally posted by BB Gun
"surfer talk"="metalhead talk"="valley girl talk"="rapper talk"
All are stupid and limit your opportunities if thats the only way you speak.
Only one way gets "defended"
Wonder why?
BB
Good question and a very good point!
which brings me to my favorite word WHY!
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Gotta agree with Lazs and others. It's not about banishing slang, but knowing when to employ it and when to use proper language.
I'll say "dude" a lot, do the secret handshake/handsignal thing and use what's equivalent to "rad", "fat" and "cool" and acronyms like DGIT (Dead Guy In Training) and generally sound like a retard when I'm hanging out drinking with other skydivers.
At work, I'll use work language and the particular vocabulary associated with it.
Other than that, when I talk, I do so to communicate a message to a listener. I'd be a fool if I did not do my best in delivering the message in a way that a) is easily understood by the listener and b) leaves the listener with the appropriate impression of me, my intentions and of what has been said.
Gotta know when to do and when to not do.
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Originally posted by StSanta
Gotta know when to do and when to not do.
Thats easy to say but when you are sometimes talking about 15 year old young men LOL .... well you get the idea maturity and restraint is the last thing on there minds.
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Originally posted by txmx
SO in other words you cant answer my question?
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl he doesn't get it
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Originally posted by storch
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl he doesn't get it
It is said to be a sin to call some one a fool.
But what the heck FOOL.
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Originally posted by SoulzofAW3
:rolleyes: @ this entire thread. As a young black male, I find this thread ridiculous. I respect Bill Cosby for what he has accomplished, but as far as I'm concerned he could have saved those comments that he made about the need to speak English. Believe it or not, most blacks don't speak Ebonics. I'll just give you guys a run down on how most black people feel about topics like things like this.
1. We absolutely hate it when an African American celebrity gets on television to give these "Let's uplift our people" speeches about how blacks need to stop speaking in Ebonics and get off welfare, etc. Truth be told, most of us are already doing that. They just get in the national spotlight and make it seem as if we're all in the ghetto, which leads to topics and discussions like this among Caucasians.
2. Even the blacks that do speak slang or Ebonics are not all ignorant. Slang is just a way for people to communicate with each other in a way that's comfortable to us. Just because I speak slang dosen't mean that I have a gun in my jacket and I'm ready to rob someone. Think about it, most of you guys speak slang also. Ex, "I just HO'd a noob over HQ". That's slang also. Does that mean you're a street person or ignorant? Not at all. It's just our way of communicating with each other when flying. Think about that the next time you're ready to label someone because of the way that they speak.
3. The most important thing! Stop watching so much television and thinking that all blacks behave a certain way. These rappers rap about females and drugs because that's how they make their money. I don't condone it at all, but that's why they're called ENTERTAINERS. Just because someone raps about selling drugs dosen't mean that they're going to the corner to sell drugs right after they leave the recording studio.
Carry on..........
Bingo. very well thought out.
This may also be applied to "Hispanics" (a term that annoys me very much) Hispanics come from many different cultures. Though some are similar most are vastly different.
If you hear me on vox you would not know that I am a naturalized American Citizen and that I was born in Cuba. If you came and hung out with us when we switched to speaking spanish as we often do it would blow your mind. None of the people I associate with have an accent. Our parents do though.
Come to Miami and see what the "Hispanics" have done with a town that rolled up the sidewalks at 2200 on the weekends in 1960.
None of my Black friends sound as you guys seem to think either. Did you know that 25% of the Black population now live in the suburbs, are very concerned with properly educating their children and earn in excess of $75,000.00 annually?
Black and "Hispanic" families don't all live in the hood or barrio, never have and never will.
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This may also be applied to "Hispanics" (a term that annoys me very much)
caught a great sound-bite the other morning. this reporter was doing some feel-good piece about different cultures getting along together and was interviewing some kids(5-6 yr old) @ school.
so she asks this one little boy "are you Hispanic"
"no, I'm a Mexican"
outta the mouths of babes and all that.
here she was doing the PC thing of trying to over complicate the issue and it just took the honesty of a little kid to cut through the crap.
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I work with a guy from peurto rico and he's allways corrected me that Mexicans and Central americans ARE NOT HISPANICS.....Hispanics stem from the island of Hispaniola.....wich if you check your map consists fo haiti and dominican republic.
I'm not sure if that's true or were Latino comes from cause I associate that with the term latin....wich now that I think about it I'm not sure were that comes from
Just a little FYI not sure if its true or not.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I work with a guy from peurto rico and he's allways corrected me that Mexicans and Central americans ARE NOT HISPANICS.....Hispanics stem from the island of Hispaniola.....wich if you check your map consists fo haiti and dominican republic.
I'm not sure if that's true or were Latino comes from cause I associate that with the term latin....wich now that I think about it I'm not sure were that comes from
Just a little FYI not sure if its true or not.
OH OH if that's true than I am at least part Hispanic. My grandmother was Haitian. Live and learn.
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I'm not sure if it's true or not either, but what is true is this is all way more complicated than it needs to be.
what is so offensive about calling Mexicans, Mexicans? or Nicaraguans, Nicaraguans? or whatever, whatever?
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Nothing at all, that's what we do.
De que pueblo eres? (where are you from) Yo soy Cubano. (I'm Cuban.) Then from that point out they may refer to me as "el Cubanito" and so on. If they forget my name a simple Oye Cuba. (hey Cuba) will get my attention, as well as the attention of 1500 other guys in earshot on some construction sites.
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guys... if you heard me talking to another gearhead or gun aficianado... you might not understand half of what I say.. I doubt you would feel threatened tho.
When I was a biker you wouldn't understand half of what we said but you would have felt threatened.
To pretend that there is no difference is naive.
like I said... I make no right or wrong on the deal but simply point out that it is the way it is.
lazs
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Just so you know, we chased the tough bikers out. now they hang out two counties to the North of us. Not really too intimidated by anyone. And I'm not trying to start any Internet toughyness either, just pointing something out. They felt uncomfortable and left.
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Trying to explain things about race to people on this BBS can be very frustrating. When you try to tell the truth it gets labeled as an excuse. Still I will try....
I grew up in South Central LA. Gang affliated. Gang file about 4 pages long. Been arrested for almost everything under the sun. From inciting a riot to counterfeit. I am the product of being brought up by a single mom who couldnt be there at all times. In most cases I was raised by the streets. Fortunately she was very strict when it came to my education. Although I was getting into alot of trouble I mantained a 3.4 gpa in high school. I believe the education I received was below standard but I made the best of it. Point is.....Parenting is the biggest factor. You cannot rely on the inner city educational system.
I went to join the Marines at the age of 17. It was time to get my life together but being poor and my lack of discipline ruled out college. My recruiters didnt give me a chance because of my appearance. Pants sagging earrings the whole works. They told me they were floored when I scored an 86 on the ASVAB. Point is...Dont judge a book by its cover.
For alot of the inner city kids there arent very many choices. Lack of parenting. The substandard education. The lack of discipline and the feeling of hopelessness turn these kids towards the direction of false idols such as rappers. The kids today cant differentiate between reality and what they see on TV or hear on the radio.... I hate to say it but alot of my fellow black americans still have the slave mentality.
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everywhere I travel, it's the same, I see people that've never known anything else than the place they grew up in, the TV they watched and radio they heard etc.
Unless you follow the right education, you're going to limit your perception down to nearly nothing, big handicap when necessary to deal with foreign thoughts.
I go to France, they mock americans for this. To the USA, they mock France for that. Go to an Arabic hangout, they mock yet another country. Or form, or language, or culture, whatever. Every country I've stayed in has their ways and in the end they're all just upright animals wearing clothes on this big ball of dirt.
Things'd be better if people had more exposition to the rest of the world, or the basics at least, sufficient logic and knowledge to dissociate irrational from rational thought, all the time, correctly.
You don't have to give up culture and tradition etc, but at least recognize art(in any form) for what it is: beautiful and futile.
If you see a bunch of people speaking dutch and ask a question in japanese, do you need to be einstein to recognize your message is not getting across???
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storch... not trying to argue but... 70"s bikers were a tiny bit different in the bay area of California than they are today about anywhere.
jamusta.. In order to maintain your average you had to work at it. I imagine that you don't speak ebonics or slang much when you are trying to get ahead. Cosby was right. I believe that I am right and that if you are not one of the sheep and you work hard you will get ahead. I know how hard it is to get your life in order after making a shambles out of it but you prove that it can be done. I had a similar experiance.
lazs
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Originally posted by jamusta
Trying to explain things about race to people on this BBS can be very frustrating. When you try to tell the truth it gets labeled as an excuse. Still I will try....
I grew up in South Central LA. Gang affliated. Gang file about 4 pages long. Been arrested for almost everything under the sun. From inciting a riot to counterfeit. I am the product of being brought up by a single mom who couldnt be there at all times. In most cases I was raised by the streets. Fortunately she was very strict when it came to my education. Although I was getting into alot of trouble I mantained a 3.4 gpa in high school. I believe the education I received was below standard but I made the best of it. Point is.....Parenting is the biggest factor. You cannot rely on the inner city educational system.
I went to join the Marines at the age of 17. It was time to get my life together but being poor and my lack of discipline ruled out college. My recruiters didnt give me a chance because of my appearance. Pants sagging earrings the whole works. They told me they were floored when I scored an 86 on the ASVAB. Point is...Dont judge a book by its cover.
For alot of the inner city kids there arent very many choices. Lack of parenting. The substandard education. The lack of discipline and the feeling of hopelessness turn these kids towards the direction of false idols such as rappers. The kids today cant differentiate between reality and what they see on TV or hear on the radio.... I hate to say it but alot of my fellow black americans still have the slave mentality.
And that seems exactly what Cosby said. Your mother did her best and foacuded on at least sometrhing she could influence in you.
How do you interpret "slave mentality?"
The way I interpret "slave mentality" is as an attitude lacking in personal responsibility. Because thats excatly what slavery is, the complete removal of your own right to be responsible for your mind and body.
The extension of that today is what I perceve to be a very strong desire among mainstream black "leaders" to minimize the impact internal factors of black communities have on the problems and solutions to those problems facing black communties as opposed to the impact of external factors. The problems of poeverty and crime and poor educational performance of many black communities are caused by both internal and external factors. I dont think its productive to deny the imact of either.
The response to cosby's call fpr personal action, responsibility and accountabiliaty struck me as typical of that mentality.
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Originally posted by lazs2
storch... not trying to argue but... 70"s bikers were a tiny bit different in the bay area of California than they are today about anywhere.
lazs
No doubt, all we had around here were the outlaws and they were pretty notorius maybe even infamous. And I guess they were pretty bad, in numbers. Anyways the cocaine cowboys came in capped one or three of them, took their market share and sent them packing. The only bikers left here now are partners in law firms during the week.
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I will admit that slang is like a first language to me. It is easier to speak slang than to speak correct english. The problem begins when an individual cannot determine when to speak correct english and when to speak slang. To me its quite simple. Job interview one must speak using proper English. On the other end, if I'm chilling at the club wit my dawgs soakin up the scene tryin to holla at some applebottom honies slang. When approaching the young lady in question one must speak using proper english again. See easy.
Unfortuantely Grun my interpretation of the slave mentality is the same as yours. Alot of black americans are still waiting for their 40 acres and a mule. Although I believe that equality is not where it should be we as a people live to much in the past. America will never be totally equal until minorities take control of there own lives and aggressively pursue equallity. My so called modern day black leaders do nothing but biatch and complain. Cosby is telling the truth. He is a pioneer to the entertainment industry. He has tried to change americas image of the average black american. People fought hard for us not to be forced to the back of the bus, but when we get on these days, where do we prefer to sit? IN THE BACK OF THE DAMN BUS!!!!
Everything is about image. Sure I like nice things. I drive the big truck with 22" rims. Same things I see on TV I also want. I dont see anything wrong with that if you work hard for it. When all the "bling bling becomes a problem is when you are still living with your mother or pulling up to your apt with a $50k+ truck wearing your $400 shoes. So when image takes over your priorities something is wrong with that. We need to invest more. Instead of the $70k H2 do like me buy a used Tahoe for $21k get your credit straight and save for a house or condo.
Ok im getting too into this. As some know I get frustrated when subjects of race come in. I will marinate in my own thoughts.
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Nicely put Jamusta, thats how i see it if you speak slang you got to know when and when not to use it thats all about it no race comes into.Cause to tell the truth we all speak slang.;)
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jamusta.. I hve no problem with anything you said in the last post. I find it easier to speak gearhead of firearms but know when to do it. I see no reason to speak slang tho... I would say that when you speak ebonics to fellow blacks you are in effect being part of the problem in order to fit in.
Case in point... on occassion people from my past will show up (those still living) and they speak a biker lingo that I used to speak... I don't play along. If you do then you are opening the door for more "cultural" crap. It does not make me hip or cool it makes me stupid.
Now... I like to see blacks buy a used car and save for a home. I believe that is the way to better relations. the $400 shoes and escalade with 20" wheels while living in an aparment in a ghetto zone is a loser path. Just as a swastica tats and dirty levis and rat Harleys are/were.
lazs