Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Maniac on May 23, 2004, 12:11:19 PM
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Way to go!
Problem Solved!
:rolleyes:
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It's about time. You'd think that rule would be a no brainer anyway.
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Why ban cameras? After all they got nothing to hide in those prisoners?
:aok
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this whole prison abuse thing is a complete bunch of rediculousness. Cripes, a couple of bad apples act like the savages they are guarding, and the whole US Army is suddenly bad? I think not... seems to me, CNN must really want the demos in next election, because this seems to be the ace in the whole....
Wonder how many more US troops will be killed because the whole of the Arab world thinks all US troops are bad because of the actions of a few savages....
Thankfully, there will be a judgement day for all... they can explain their actions then. :eek:
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Originally posted by Staga
Why ban cameras? After all they got nothing to hide in those prisoners?
:aok
Why? Because all of the sissy punk reporters along with the public wont sit down and stfu and let our troops do their jobs. These aren't school teachers in those prisons. They are rapists, looters, theives, scum of the earth. My composure would last a total of 5 seconds if in the same room with this trash.
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These aren't school teachers in those prisons. They are rapists, looters, theives, scum of the earth.
You are talking about the prison guards now i guess?
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
Why? Because all of the sissy punk reporters along with the public wont sit down and stfu and let our troops do their jobs. These aren't school teachers in those prisons. They are rapists, looters, theives, scum of the earth. My composure would last a total of 5 seconds if in the same room with this trash.
If so, why were most of them eventually set free? Were any of them given a trial? But to some people, none of that matters because they're just sand******s, right?
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My 6 year-old nephew said that 2 days after the original prison pictures came out.
:aok
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This should have been SOP from the begining. I dont think regular prisons allow the guards to bring in cameras. I know I cant walk out onto the flight line that I work at and start snapping pics of airplanes.
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Suprised Rumsfield still has a job.
...-Gixer
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they're just sand******s, right?
You said that not me.
There is no need to bring race issues into the argument. Not with me.
Scum is scum.
People need to grow a pair or look the other way and let the troops do their jobs.
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
Why? Because all of the sissy punk reporters along with the public wont sit down and stfu and let our troops do their jobs. These aren't school teachers in those prisons. They are rapists, looters, theives, scum of the earth. My composure would last a total of 5 seconds if in the same room with this trash.
first "their jobs" do not entail abusing prisoners
second, some may in fact be school teachers, last figure I heard 90% ended up being released, there have been virtually no trials for these inmates. by our standards (and thats what I'd expect our men to conform too) all of these untried inmates are to be considered Innocent.
and lastly, banning cameras to solve this problem makes as much sense as getting bigger speakers and a new amp for your car, to fix that knocking noise coming from your engine.
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It was more then a couple bad apples, and it was not abuse but torture. No one said it was the entire US army, but we question why it was allowed to go on for so long.
Banning cameras means you have something to hide. I love how Rumsfeld stated he takes full responsibility, but when it comes to the negitive concequences he *****s out. And only after the media makes it a big deal out of it.
Way to bring back accountability to the White House.
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
It was more then a couple bad apples, and it was not abuse but torture. No one said it was the entire US army, but we question why it was allowed to go on for so long.
Banning cameras means you have something to hide. I love how Rumsfeld stated he takes full responsibility, but when it comes to the negitive concequences he *****s out. And only after the media makes it a big deal out of it.
Way to bring back accountability to the White House.
Stabby the military does not allow cameras in most sensative areas. This should have been SOP from the begining. Is anyone here a prison guard? I'm willing to bet that most prisons have a ban on cameras in the blocks themselves.
Just cause they are not allowing cameras in the prisons does not automatically mean they are trying to hide somthing.
I love how Rumsfeld stated he takes full responsibility, but when it comes to the negitive concequences he *****s out
yea kinda like janet reno of the last administration.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Stabby the military does not allow cameras in most sensative areas. This should have been SOP from the begining. Is anyone here a prison guard? I'm willing to bet that most prisons have a ban on cameras in the blocks themselves.
Just cause they are not allowing cameras in the prisons does not automatically mean they are trying to hide somthing.
Yea, just a reactionary statement on my part. People will still smuggle them in anyways. When you can fit them on your keychain what are you going to do?
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I bet nazies didn't like those pictures which were taken from their camps :)
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
Yea, just a reactionary statement on my part. People will still smuggle them in anyways. When you can fit them on your keychain what are you going to do?
True but this isnt the boyscouts its the military. They take pictures were they are unauthorized and it is a felony.
I cant crawl into the cockpit of an F/A-22 and snap away photos. just by taking photos of these prisoners they were breaking the law abuse or not.
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Originally posted by Staga
I bet nazies didn't like those pictures which were taken from their camps :)
wow that didnt take long....comparing our soldiers to Nazis.
Bet the Nazis did alot worse things than tie somone to a bed and put woman's underwear on their head.
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Bet the Nazis did alot worse things than tie somone to a bed and put woman's underwear on their head.
For some thats concidered a very sexually pleasing and arousing action.
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Dont know bout you guys but I have awoken with womens underwear on my head.
:D
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Just cause they are not allowing cameras in the prisons does not automatically mean they are trying to hide something.
no but having a big scandal about illegal and immoral treatment of prisoners come out.
then implementing a rule that does more to stop the exposure of this type of behavior than it does to actually stop the behavior itself, should raise a few red flags in the mind of anyone who isn't burying his head in the sand.
I think a more appropriate response would be to do what you can to stop the abuses, then welcome any type of system that makes the recording of treatment and report abuses, so transparent that there could be no doubt to anyone that things have changed. this would insure that there is no way anyone could get away with these abuses.
to say that you have solved the problem, and then block the area from view doesn't seem right.
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It wasn't a camera that turned those people in,it was an individual.
Making sure there are no cameras would eliminate pictures for souvenirs,which is the reason for the new rule,not to "hide" anything.
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Originally posted by Sox62
It wasn't a camera that turned those people in,it was an individual.
Making sure there are no cameras would eliminate pictures for souvenirs,which is the reason for the new rule,not to "hide" anything.
Yea we wouldn't want anymore torture pics getting out to the public.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
wow that didnt take long....comparing our soldiers to Nazis.
Bet the Nazis did alot worse things than tie somone to a bed and put woman's underwear on their head.
I wasn't comparing US soldiers to nazies; I'm just saying that I do understand the reason why are you banning cameras in those camps of yours.
Those pics can be so... er... unpleasant to see in news (or in courts) :)
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Originally posted by Staga
I wasn't comparing US soldiers to nazies; I'm just saying that I do understand the reason why are you banning cameras in those camps of yours.
Those pics can be so... er... unpleasant to see in news (or in courts) :)
It does not matter. America is above the law. Our troops will never be tried for crimes in any international courts, and we are above the Geneva convention.
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And which might give us a clue on why you guys get attacked so much and often. When justice isn't served through judicial means, people tend to take on their own.
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From the looks of it before too long we will be banning Iraqi's from Iraqi prisons LOL.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Bet the Nazis did alot worse things than tie somone to a bed and put woman's underwear on their head.
So did the US soldiers.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
So did the US soldiers.
Oh BOO freekin HOO!
I am getting soo freekin tired of hearing had badly these murdering scumbags were treated in PRISON.
Was there treatment wrong ? Hell yes it was very stupid and unprofessional and the guilty are being punished .
But to keep going on and on because they were forced to play neeked twister for crying out loud.
Atleast they where not having electrodes hooked up to there nutt sacs !
People we aint talking about poor old victims of war here .
We are talking about the murdering stunninghunks who if given half a chance would shoot our guys in the back!
So if they were embarASSed alittle get freekin over it .
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"We don't think they're protected by the geneva convention, but we can tell others they're breaking the geneva convention rules."
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Originally posted by Fishu
"We don't think they're protected by the geneva convention, but we can tell others they're breaking the geneva convention rules."
Tell ya what when they fly a couple of jumbo jets into downtown Helsinki then your opnion might mean something .
Otherwise It's just more Gas escaping from europe.
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If I were he, I'd clean up that mess and then make it manditory that all guards posess cameras.
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Originally posted by Nash
If I were he, I'd clean up that mess and then make it manditory that all guards posess cameras.
Better yet install cams in the prison .
And any soldier found acting like a fool will be sent to Levenworth for min 5 years.
That might get the message though.
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Originally posted by txmx
Oh BOO freekin HOO!
I am getting soo freekin tired of hearing had badly these murdering scumbags were treated in PRISON.
Was there treatment wrong ? Hell yes it was very stupid and unprofessional and the guilty are being punished .
But to keep going on and on because they were forced to play neeked twister for crying out loud.
Atleast they where not having electrodes hooked up to there nutt sacs !
People we aint talking about poor old victims of war here .
We are talking about the murdering stunninghunks who if given half a chance would shoot our guys in the back!
So if they were embarASSed alittle get freekin over it .
you think the pics you saw on the evening new was the worst of it?
in the pic of the hooded guy on the crate, he did have electrodes hooked to him.
some of these prisoners were beaten to death.
and again- none of them had been convicted of anything, and the last I heard about 90% were released after the most basic of investigations of their charges.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
and the last I heard about 90% were released after the most basic of investigations of their charges.
Yeah they let em go to shut everyone up and hope the whole dern thing just goes away.
And the electrodes were not hooked up to anything.
And From what IO read most if not all of the deaths werfe because of riots and the guards had to use deadly force.
Again we are not dealing with the nicest of people here folks.
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Originally posted by txmx
Yeah they let em go to shut everyone up and hope the whole dern thing just goes away.
And the electrodes were not hooked up to anything.
And From what IO read most if not all of the deaths werfe because of riots and the guards had to use deadly force.
Again we are not dealing with the nicest of people here folks.
Do you not read the reports of what goes on there? Multiple homocide investigations, tapes of troops beating naked POWs, and lets not for get the sodomy.. lots of sodomy.
The best part is 90 percent of the iraqis in that prision were arrested for just being a male iraqi. You make Jesus cry when you appologize for torture.
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
Do you not read the reports of what goes on there? Multiple homocide investigations, tapes of troops beating naked POWs, and lets not for get the sodomy.. lots of sodomy.
The best part is 90 percent of the iraqis in that prision were arrested for just being a male iraqi. You make Jesus cry when you appologize for torture.
And you believe everything you read do you?
Said it before : believe nothing you read and only half of what you see.
The only people that really kknow what happend there was the people there .
And it wernt you or me or CNN.
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Originally posted by txmx
And you believe everything you read do you?
Said it before : believe nothing you read and only half of what you see.
The only people that really kknow what happend there was the people there .
And it wernt you or me or CNN.
Yes, and do you want to know why? THEY HAVE PICTURES AND VIDEO TAPE. SENATORS HAVE MADE STATEMENTS VARIFYING THESE THINGS ARE GOING ON. Read a newspaper.
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
Yes, and do you want to know why? THEY HAVE PICTURES AND VIDEO TAPE. SENATORS HAVE MADE STATEMENTS VARIFYING THESE THINGS ARE GOING ON. Read a newspaper.
LOL and senators never lie!
Well theres Teddy Kennedy now theres a tower of the truth for ya :rofl
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
and lets not for get the sodomy.. lots of sodomy.
I bet most of it was them doing it to each other too .
I have a hard time believeing that any American would even want to get that close to them.
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Originally posted by txmx
LOL and senators never lie!
Well theres Teddy Kennedy now theres a tower of the truth for ya :rofl
Yes all 50 of them are lieing. It is one big conspirasy to discredit the military. The pentagon also is lieing, their statements cannot be trusted. That video of the trooper beating the **** out of a naked iraqi that is going around is just really good CGI. This is just one big conspirasy set up by the powers at be, and only the mp that said he was under orders to sodomize the prisoners knows what is really going down.
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Originally posted by txmx
Yeah they let em go to shut everyone up and hope the whole dern thing just goes away.
And the electrodes were not hooked up to anything.
And From what IO read most if not all of the deaths werfe because of riots and the guards had to use deadly force.
Again we are not dealing with the nicest of people here folks.
the 90% release was before this story broke. these people were mostly rounded up for being male of fighting age and in an area where trouble had broken out (kinda like your neighbor resists arrest and they decide to take you along too, since you are of an age that you could have been involved if you'd have wanted to)
and the last I hear of the deaths (this is from memory of the hearings on c-span, I may get some numbers wrong) they were investigating about a dozen, one or two were from escape attempts and the like, 2 or 3 where found to be suicide and the rest were listed as homicides. again I don't remember the exact numbers in each category but I do recall being shocked that more than 50% where homicides. for most the cause of death was being beaten to death.
don't suppose you have a quote (from any of the investigators) that says most of the deaths were from riots. cause that's sure not what witnesses were telling congress in the last few weeks (Taguba IIRC). if you could share that source with Rumsfeld it might really help him out right about now.
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This article is just full of lies, no matter what information from the government it was based on.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/24/politics/24ABUS.html?ex=1085976000&en=7291def92f884351&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE
A military intelligence unit that oversaw interrogations at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq was also in charge of questioning at a detention center in Afghanistan where two prisoners died in December 2002 in incidents that are being investigated as homicides.
For both of the Afghan prisoners, who died in a center known as the Bagram Collection Point, the cause of death listed on certificates signed by American pathologists included blunt force injuries to their legs. Interrogations at the center were supervised by Company A, 519th Military Intelligence Battalion, which moved on early in 2003 to Iraq, where some of its members were assigned to the Joint Interrogation and Debriefing Center at Abu Ghraib. Its service in Afghanistan was known, but its work at Bagram at the time of the deaths has now emerged in interviews with former prisoners, military officials and from documents.
Two men arrested with one of the prisoners who died in the Bagram Detention Center that month said in southeastern Afghanistan on Sunday that they were tortured and sexually humiliated by their American jailers; they said they were held in isolation cells, black hoods were placed over their heads, and their hands at times were chained to the ceiling. "The 10 days that we had was a very bad time," said Zakim Shah, a 20-year-old farmer and a father of two who said he felt he would not survive at times. "We are very lucky." The account provided by the two men was consistent with those of other former Afghan prisoners, including those interviewed by The New York Times and cited in reports by human rights officials.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
the 90% release was before this story broke. these people were mostly rounded up for being male of fighting age and in an area where trouble had broken out (kinda like your neighbor resists arrest and they decide to take you along too, since you are of an age that you could have been involved if you'd have wanted to)
and the last I hear of the deaths (this is from memory of the hearings on c-span, I may get some numbers wrong) they were investigating about a dozen, one or two were from escape attempts and the like, 2 or 3 where found to be suicide and the rest were listed as homicides. again I don't remember the exact numbers in each category but I do recall being shocked that more than 50% where homicides. for most the cause of death was being beaten to death.
don't suppose you have a quote (from any of the investigators) that says most of the deaths were from riots. cause that's sure not what witnesses were telling congress in the last few weeks (Taguba IIRC). if you could share that source with Rumsfeld it might really help him out right about now.
For whatever reason txmx loves to justify the torture that went on. Just another example of his high christian morles, and the fact he does not see the iraqis as humans.
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it stuns me as a Christian, to see others who profess to be Christians, but are OK with things like torture, murder, killing in the name of revenge, cutting social programs for the unfortunate, and the like.
how a man can be Christian and justify the support of such things with their beliefs leaves me at a loss. I see a lot who seem to pull it off, but I just can't do it myself, nor understand how they manage it.
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
For whatever reason txmx loves to justify the torture that went on. Just another example of his high christian morles, and the fact he does not see the iraqis as humans.
Nope I just see it as more election year BS from the Dems to discredite the republicans.
Not to say ugly things did not happen there Im sure they did.
But on a much smaller scale that what we are being lead to believe.
Again this IS in a war zone and i would imagine it was there job to weed out who the bad guys were form all of the people they rounded up.
I find it hard to believe having served that our troops would just kill prisoners for the pure hell of it.
There must be a reason behind it.
After all what does any of them gain by killing these prisoners ?
I mean besides getting caught and probably being hung over it?
Yes martha the army can Hang you for certain crimes so why would these soldiers just for the sake of doing it kill these dudes?
I think there is more to this than any of us know.
And the fact that I am willing to give the benifite of the doubt to the AMERICAN soldier over some Iraqi should not come as any big new flash.
After all I am an American.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
it stuns me as a Christian, to see others who profess to be Christians, but are OK with things like torture, murder,
LOL tell it to the catholic church and the spaniards duirg the inquisitions.
Or for more resent history tell it to the Muslims who just lopped off the head of a civilian.
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
For whatever reason txmx loves to justify the torture that went on. Just another example of his high christian morles, and the fact he does not see the iraqis as humans.
for whatever reason stabby loves putting words into peoples mouth's and then bashes their faith.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
for whatever reason stabby loves putting words into peoples mouth's and then bashes their faith.
Thats ok Gunslinger he just needs a little more treadwear under his tires and he will see things in a different light LOL.
Hey I knew everything when I was young too.
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Originally posted by txmx
Hey I knew everything when I was young too.
Dont forget bullet proof too. I remember the day I realized my own mortality very specifically.....yes youth is waisted on the young.
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so you're OK with it because others have done it and used their faith to try and justify? kinda lame and not very original.
think for yourself some time, it's very liberating.
you claim to be a Christian (even put a baptist website in your sig), have you read the gospel? ever find anything in there that is anywhere close to a parallel to the statements you make here?
so, maybe I missed something, I have a fairly high reading comprehension but occasionally I do miss a thing or 2.
so educate me- where in the Gospel (thats the Christian part of the Bible for those who don't know) does it say it's OK to treat your fellow man this way?
if you can't find it (and I really think you won't), which is the real you? are you claiming to be a Christian, but not really believing? or are you just saying the crap you say because it makes you feel more patriotic to just agree with whatever the republicans tell you to believe?
or do you not really know who you are or what you believe, and just say whatever you think will make you sound important and informed at the time.
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The Bible Is full of killing and adultry and sodomy you name it and It was in the Bible first.
God told Abraham to kill His own Son remeber that part.
Kinda sick but it's in there.
But to get to the point I am trying to make Is I dont think we are being told the whole story folks.
Can you tell me why any of these soldiers would just for kicks kill any of these prisoners?
It just dont make any sense does it?
I dont have much faith that we the American public will ever know the full truth in this matter.
Now If you feel ok with everything you hear from the press and polititions
Then thats ok and your right.
But I am one of those types that will question everything LOL drove my parents nuts when I was a kid always asking WHY !
And Again I am saying I have more faith in our troops to beilieve that they would beat to death for no reason unarmed prisoners.
If that Is the case then we need to have a good hard look at our youth dont we!
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first off the Abraham story, and the violent parts of the Bible are all in the old testament (pre-Jesus. again for those who don't know this stuff). the new testament, or Gospel relates to Christianity, the old testament is there to let us know where we came form, mostly a history lesson. with Jesus and the new testament, came a new law. the religion formed from this new law is Christianity and it doesn't fit well with the kind of behavior many of it's aledged supporters are advocating.
as far as this-Can you tell me why any of these soldiers would just for kicks kill any of these prisoners?
maybe it wasn't for kicks. maybe they where beating them because they where ordered to. maybe they were following orders and those orders evolved into dehumanizing the captives, and this led to punishments and abuses that went to far.
who knows at this point. and thats why we need this investigation, not for "election year politics" but because if you don't find out why it happened you can't stop it from happening again.
dropping the whole thing and wishing it would go away won't solve anything. banning cameras and stemming the flow of info from these prisons, just makes it that much harder to detect next time.
I thank God for the courage of the soldier who exposed the story, and the fact that he was able to have photos to back him up.
he's a hero and should be decorated for his courage.
ya, too bad we didn't ban cameras from the start. that way the guy could have been discredited, called a liar, and the abuse and murder could have gone on uninterrupted. :rolleyes:
this process of investigation and exposure is distasteful to say the least, and very embarrassing for some, and it should be. but it's also absolutely necessary, that it be done, and be done as openly and publicly as possible.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
first off the Abraham story, and the violent parts of the Bible are all in the old testament (pre-Jesus. again for those who don't know this stuff). the new testament, or Gospel relates to Christianity, the old testament is there to let us know where we came form, mostly a history lesson. with Jesus and the new testament, came a new law. the religion formed from this new law is Christianity and it doesn't fit well with the kind of behavior many of it's aledged supporters are advocating.
So If it's from the old testament It dont count?
And If It happend before Jesus came along It aint that big of a deal?
And the new testament Is to superced the old one?
Well I tend to struggle with it all anyway but I still put a lot of weight in the old testament as with the ten commandments and all.
And I forgot what It Is called But in the Military If you are given an unl;awfull order you do not have to follow it.
In fact you are duty bound to report said order.
So I can only see people following these orders that wanted to.
Wich if the case Is in it self SICK.
The Real hero would have been the soldier who would have refused the order and reported the officer giving it.
Now that would have taken some king sizied eggs.
Someone look up that part of the UCMJ I remeber bits and pieces of it but not with enogh clarity to quote it here.
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The dems are just poloticking? Man, you buy into the right wing BS very easy. People kill and beat people every day for very little to no reason. The fact that it went on for so long in the pow prisons is why this is a scandle. If you cannot face facts thats cool, i guess. I doubt the MPs even saw the pows as even human. It is pretty standard military doctrine to dehumanize the enemy.
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Can you tell me why any of these soldiers would just for kicks kill any of these prisoners?
The world are getting more and more perverted. Im not suprised if they did it "djust for kicks"....
Why do YOU think they did it then?
Regards.
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Originally posted by txmx
Tell ya what when they fly a couple of jumbo jets into downtown Helsinki then your opnion might mean something .
Otherwise It's just more Gas escaping from europe.
You just forget it needs a motive to do something like that.
Terrorists didn't ram into WTC just because they hate freedom loving god fearing people, they had some other motives.
Must have sumthin ta do with Israel 'n troops in middle east.
I'm shuuure those n^10 US vetos in UN for Israelis benefit in everything mustn't look good in middle east..
Amazingly the latest UN resolution or something was NOT vetoed by US goverment, unique thing to happen. :eek:
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Originally posted by txmx
So If it's from the old testament It dont count?
And If It happend before Jesus came along It aint that big of a deal?
And the new testament Is to superced the old one?
Well I tend to struggle with it all anyway but I still put a lot of weight in the old testament as with the ten commandments and all.
the old testament is mostly there for history.
it's not that it's not a big deal but it's history, there is a lot of wisdom there, but when you find conflicts between old and new testament go with what it says in the new (unless you're a Jew)
yes the new testament is to supersede the old one. we no longer make blood sacrifices, or follow most of the Jewish law.
the old testament is the Jewish bible. the new testament is the part pertaining to Christianity.
if you want a quick summation of the new testament, I think one of my favorite song writers (John Prine) summed it up pretty well in a line from an old song of his (it's an oldy from about 35 yrs ago, seems it's become relevant again. it's called "you're flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore") it goes like this -
Now Jesus don't like killin'
No matter what the reason's for,
if you get some time you should try reading some of that Bible. start with Mathew and work your way forward from there.
a guy who puts a link to a Christian organization, ought to know what he's promoting. especially since many of the opinions you express here don't seem to fit.
not that you're alone in that, our president claims to be a Christian too and it seems to me that he's more than willing to have people kill and die for profit.
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
It is pretty standard military doctrine to dehumanize the enemy.
WOW you know alot about the Military for one who has never served.
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Originally posted by txmx
WOW you know alot about the Military for one who has never served.
It is fairly easy to pick up a book and read.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
the old testament is mostly there for history.
it's not that it's not a big deal but it's history, there is a lot of wisdom there, but when you find conflicts between old and new testament go with what it says in the new (unless you're a Jew)
yes the new testament is to supersede the old one. we no longer make blood sacrifices, or follow most of the Jewish law.
the old testament is the Jewish bible. the new testament is the part pertaining to Christianity.
if you want a quick summation of the new testament, I think one of my favorite song writers (John Prine) summed it up pretty well in a line from an old song of his (it's an oldy from about 35 yrs ago, seems it's become relevant again. it's called "you're flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore") it goes like this -
Now Jesus don't like killin'
No matter what the reason's for,
if you get some time you should try reading some of that Bible. start with Mathew and work your way forward from there.
a guy who puts a link to a Christian organization, ought to know what he's promoting. especially since many of the opinions you express here don't seem to fit.
not that you're alone in that, our president claims to be a Christian too and it seems to me that he's more than willing to have people kill and die for profit.
Well you seem to have hit the nail on the head.
My birth parent where jews.
I was adopted and raised babtist.
But my I tend to believe more along the lines of the Jew.
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
It is fairly easy to pick up a book and read.
haahahaahhaahahahahhaah CAUGH CAUGH
ha ha HA HA HA H ha ha ha (CLEANS OFF MONITOR)
HA HA HA HA HA HA
:rofl
that's the funniest thing I've heard all day....seriously LMAO....
"all you ever wanted to know about the military by reading a book" -by stabby
Oh You kill me :rofl
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Originally posted by txmx
Atleast they where not having electrodes hooked up to there nutt sacs !
you must read more before making such statements txmx!
On page 3 from Washington Post is just one article where this is statements that there was electrodes attached to genitals in the prison by US personel.
Washington Post (go to page 3) (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43783-2004May20.html)
There are 33 (last time i looked) individual investigations of beating to death inmates at the prison by US troops.
Washington Post also has pictures of ppl being sodomized by US troops with night-stick and even a flourescent tube...one picture they show is some prisoner covered in feces and being made to do stuff...and tons of pics and videos of prisoners being made to masturbate in front of each other and US troops while being filmed.
I think you may agree this is a bit more serious than having someone put panites on your head?
IT is SO sick, it's hard to comprehend!
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you have to register to that RAG wich i wont do .
So would you just post the article?
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just checked..it works for me txmx
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Originally posted by txmx
you have to register to that RAG wich i wont do .
So would you just post the article?
doesn't require registration....NYTimes does..but not the Post
If you still have problems...i will C&P the article for you!
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I tried your link too, it asks for registration.
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Yeah when I click on the link I get a registration form
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C&P PAGE 1 OF 2
New Details of Prison Abuse Emerge
Abu Ghraib Detainees' Statements Describe Sexual Humiliation And Savage Beatings
By Scott Higham and Joe Stephens
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, May 21, 2004; Page A01
Previously secret sworn statements by detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq describe in raw detail abuse that goes well beyond what has been made public, adding allegations of prisoners being ridden like animals, sexually fondled by female soldiers and forced to retrieve their food from toilets.
The fresh allegations of prison abuse are contained in statements taken from 13 detainees shortly after a soldier reported the incidents to military investigators in mid-January. The detainees said they were savagely beaten and repeatedly humiliated sexually by American soldiers working on the night shift at Tier 1A in Abu Ghraib during the holy month of Ramadan, according to copies of the statements obtained by The Washington Post.
The statements provide the most detailed picture yet of what took place on the cellblock. Some of the detainees described being abused as punishment or discipline after they were caught fighting or with a prohibited item. Some said they were pressed to denounce Islam or were force-fed pork and liquor. Many provided graphic details of how they were sexually humiliated and assaulted, threatened with rape, and forced to masturbate in front of female soldiers.
"They forced us to walk like dogs on our hands and knees," said Hiadar Sabar Abed Miktub al-Aboodi, detainee No. 13077. "And we had to bark like a dog, and if we didn't do that they started hitting us hard on our face and chest with no mercy. After that, they took us to our cells, took the mattresses out and dropped water on the floor and they made us sleep on our stomachs on the floor with the bags on our head and they took pictures of everything."
The prisoners also provided accounts of how some of the now-famous photographs were staged, including the pyramid of hooded, naked prisoners. Eight of the detainees identified by name one particular soldier at the center of the abuse investigation, Spec. Charles A. Graner Jr., a member of the 372nd Military Police Company from Cresaptown, Md. Five others described abuse at the hands of a solider who matches Graner's description.
"They said we will make you wish to die and it will not happen," said Ameen Saeed Al-Sheik, detainee No. 151362. "They stripped me naked. One of them told me he would rape me. He drew a picture of a woman to my back and makes me stand in shameful position holding my buttocks."
The Pentagon is investigating the allegations, a spokesman said last night.
"There are a number of lines of inquiry that are being taken with respect to allegations of abuse of detainees in U.S. custody," Bryan Whitman said. "There is still more to know and to be learned and new things to be discovered."
Threats of Death and Assault
The disclosures come from a new cache of documents, photographs and videos obtained by The Post that are part of evidence assembled by Army investigators putting together criminal cases against soldiers at Abu Ghraib. So far, seven MPs have been charged with brutalizing detainees at the prison, and one pleaded guilty Wednesday.
The sworn statements, taken in Baghdad between Jan. 16 and Jan. 21, span 65 pages. Each statement begins with a handwritten account in Arabic that is signed by the detainee, followed by a typewritten translation by U.S. military contractors. The shortest statement is a single paragraph; the longest exceeds two single-spaced typewritten pages.
While military investigators interviewed the detainees separately, many of them recalled the same event or pattern of events and procedures in Tier 1A -- a block reserved for prisoners who were thought to possess intelligence that could help thwart the insurgency in Iraq, find Saddam Hussein or locate weapons of mass destruction. Military intelligence officers took over the cellblock last October and were using MPs to help "set the conditions" for interrogations, according to an investigative report complied by Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba. Several MPs have since said in statements and through their attorneys that they were roughing up detainees at the direction of U.S. military intelligence officers.
Most of the detainees said in the statements that they were stripped upon their arrival to Tier 1A, forced to wear women's underwear, and repeatedly humiliated in front of one another and American soldiers. They also described beatings and threats of death and sexual assault if they did not cooperate with U.S. interrogators.
Kasim Mehaddi Hilas, detainee No. 151108, told investigators that when he first arrived at Abu Ghraib last year, he was forced to strip, put on a hood and wear rose-colored panties with flowers on them. "Most of the days I was wearing nothing else," he said in his statement.
Hilas also said he witnessed an Army translator having sex with a boy at the prison. He said the boy was between 15 and 18 years old. Someone hung sheets to block the view, but Hilas said he heard the boy's screams and climbed a door to get a better look. Hilas said he watched the assault and told investigators that it was documented by a female soldier taking pictures.
The fresh allegations of prison abuse are contained in statements taken from 13 detainees shortly after a soldier reported the incidents to military investigators in mid-January. The detainees said they were savagely beaten and repeatedly humiliated sexually by American soldiers working on the night shift at Tier 1A in Abu Ghraib during the holy month of Ramadan, according to copies of the statements obtained by The Washington Post.
The statements provide the most detailed picture yet of what took place on the cellblock. Some of the detainees described being abused as punishment or discipline after they were caught fighting or with a prohibited item. Some said they were pressed to denounce Islam or were force-fed pork and liquor. Many provided graphic details of how they were sexually humiliated and assaulted, threatened with rape, and forced to masturbate in front of female soldiers.
"They forced us to walk like dogs on our hands and knees," said Hiadar Sabar Abed Miktub al-Aboodi, detainee No. 13077. "And we had to bark like a dog, and if we didn't do that they started hitting us hard on our face and chest with no mercy. After that, they took us to our cells, took the mattresses out and dropped water on the floor and they made us sleep on our stomachs on the floor with the bags on our head and they took pictures of everything."
The prisoners also provided accounts of how some of the now-famous photographs were staged, including the pyramid of hooded, naked prisoners. Eight of the detainees identified by name one particular soldier at the center of the abuse investigation, Spec. Charles A. Graner Jr., a member of the 372nd Military Police Company from Cresaptown, Md. Five others described abuse at the hands of a solider who matches Graner's description.
"They said we will make you wish to die and it will not happen," said Ameen Saeed Al-Sheik, detainee No. 151362. "They stripped me naked. One of them told me he would rape me. He drew a picture of a woman to my back and makes me stand in shameful position holding my buttocks."
The Pentagon is investigating the allegations, a spokesman said last night.
"There are a number of lines of inquiry that are being taken with respect to allegations of abuse of detainees in U.S. custody," Bryan Whitman said. "There is still more to know and to be learned and new things to be discovered."
Threats of Death and Assault
The disclosures come from a new cache of documents, photographs and videos obtained by The Post that are part of evidence assembled by Army investigators putting together criminal cases against soldiers at Abu Ghraib. So far, seven MPs have been charged with brutalizing detainees at the prison, and one pleaded guilty Wednesday.
The sworn statements, taken in Baghdad between Jan. 16 and Jan. 21, span 65 pages. Each statement begins with a handwritten account in Arabic that is signed by the detainee, followed by a typewritten translation by U.S. military contractors. The shortest statement is a single paragraph; the longest exceeds two single-spaced typewritten pages.
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C&P PAGE 2 OF 2
While military investigators interviewed the detainees separately, many of them recalled the same event or pattern of events and procedures in Tier 1A -- a block reserved for prisoners who were thought to possess intelligence that could help thwart the insurgency in Iraq, find Saddam Hussein or locate weapons of mass destruction. Military intelligence officers took over the cellblock last October and were using MPs to help "set the conditions" for interrogations, according to an investigative report complied by Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba. Several MPs have since said in statements and through their attorneys that they were roughing up detainees at the direction of U.S. military intelligence officers.
Most of the detainees said in the statements that they were stripped upon their arrival to Tier 1A, forced to wear women's underwear, and repeatedly humiliated in front of one another and American soldiers. They also described beatings and threats of death and sexual assault if they did not cooperate with U.S. interrogators.
Kasim Mehaddi Hilas, detainee No. 151108, told investigators that when he first arrived at Abu Ghraib last year, he was forced to strip, put on a hood and wear rose-colored panties with flowers on them. "Most of the days I was wearing nothing else," he said in his statement.
Hilas also said he witnessed an Army translator having sex with a boy at the prison. He said the boy was between 15 and 18 years old. Someone hung sheets to block the view, but Hilas said he heard the boy's screams and climbed a door to get a better look. Hilas said he watched the assault and told investigators that it was documented by a female soldier taking pictures.
Hilas told investigators that he asked Graner for the time one day because he wanted to pray. He said Graner cuffed him to the bars of a cell window and left him there for close to five hours, his feet dangling off the floor. Hilas also said he watched as Graner and others sodomized a detainee with a phosphoric light. "They tied him to the bed," Hilas said.
Graner's attorney, Guy L. Womack, did not return phone messages yesterday. In previous interviews, he has said that his client was following the lead of military intelligence officers.
Mustafa Jassim Mustafa, detainee No. 150542, told military investigators he also witnessed the phosphoric-light assault. He said it was around the time of Ramadan, the holiest period of the Muslim year, when he heard screams coming from a cell below. Mustafa said he looked down to see a group of soldiers holding the detainee down and sodomizing him with the light.
Graner was sodomizing him with the phosphoric light, Mustafa said. The detainee "was screaming for help. There was another tall white man who was with Graner -- he was helping him. There was also a white female soldier, short, she was taking pictures."
Another detainee told military investigators that American soldiers sodomized and beat him. The detainee, whose name is being withheld by The Post because he is an alleged victim of a sexual assault, said he was kept naked for five days when he first arrived at Abu Ghraib and was forced to kneel for four hours with a hood over his head. He said he was beaten so badly one day that the hood flew off his head. "The police was telling me to crawl in Arabic, so I crawled on my stomach and the police were spitting on me when I was crawling, and hitting me on my back, my head and my feet," he said in his sworn statement.
One day, the detainee said, American soldiers held him down and spread his legs as another soldier prepared to open his pants. "I started screaming," he said. A soldier stepped on his head, he said, and someone broke a phosphoric light and spilled the chemicals on him.
"I was glowing and they were laughing," he said.
The detainee said the soldiers eventually brought him to a room and sodomized him with a nightstick. "They were taking pictures of me during all these instances," he told the investigators.
Mohanded Juma Juma, detainee No. 152307, said he was stripped and kept naked for six days when he arrived at Abu Ghraib. One day, he said, American soldiers brought a father and his son into the cellblock. He said the soldiers put hoods over their heads and removed their clothes.
Then, they removed the hoods.
"When the son saw his father naked he was crying," Juma told the investigators. "He was crying because of seeing his father."
He also said Graner repeatedly threw the detainees' meals into the toilets and said, "Eat it."
Hussein Mohssein Mata Al-Zayiadi, detainee No. 19446, told investigators that he was one of the hooded prisoners shown in photographs masturbating before American soldiers. "They told my friend to masturbate and told me to masturbate also, while they were taking pictures," he said.
Al-Zayiadi also said he and other detainees were beaten and tossed into separate cells.
"They opened the water in the cell and told us to lay face down in the water and we stayed like that until the morning, in the water, naked, without clothes," he said in his statement.
He also said soldiers forced him and others to perform like animals.
"Did the guards force you to crawl on your hands and knees on the ground?" a military investigator asked.
"Yes, they forced us to do this thing," Al-Zayiadi said.
"What were the guards doing while you were crawling on your hands and knees?"
"They were sitting on our backs like riding animals," Al-Zayiadi said.
He said the guards took pictures of the incident.
Photographs Described
Al-Zayiadi also described what has become one of the iconic photographs in the prison abuse scandal.
"They brought my friends, Haidar, Ahmed, Nouri, Ahzem, Hashiem, Mustafa, and I, and they put us two on the bottom, two on top of them, and two on top of those and one on top," he said. "They took pictures of us and we were naked."
Another publicized photograph -- that of a hooded detainee hooked up to wires and standing on a box -- is also described in the statements.
"On the third day, after five o'clock, Mr. Graner came and took me to room Number 37, which is the shower room, and he started punishing me," said Abdou Hussain Saad Faleh, detainee No. 18170. "Then he brought a box of food and he made me stand on it with no clothing, except a blanket. Then a tall black soldier came and put electrical wires on my fingers and toes and on my noodle, and I had a bag over my head."
Al-Sheik said he was arrested on Oct. 7, and brought to Abu Ghraib, where he was put in a tent for one night. The next day, he was transferred to the "hard site," the two-story building that held about 200 prisoners and contained Tiers 1A and 1B.
He said a bag was put over his head and he was made to strip. He said American soldiers started to taunt him.
"Do you pray to Allah?" one asked. "I said yes. They said, '[Expletive] you. And [expletive] him.' One of them said, 'You are not getting out of here health[y], you are getting out of here handicapped. And he said to me, 'Are you married?' I said, 'Yes.' They said, 'If your wife saw you like this, she will be disappointed.' One of them said, 'But if I saw her now she would not be disappointed now because I would rape her.' "
He said the soldiers told him that if he cooperated with interrogators they would release him in time for Ramadan. He said he did, but still was not released. He said one soldier continued to abuse him by striking his broken leg and ordered him to curse Islam. "Because they started to hit my broken leg, I cursed my religion," he said. "They ordered me to thank Jesus that I'm alive."
The detainee said the soldiers handcuffed him to a bed.
"Do you believe in anything?" he said the soldier asked. "I said to him, 'I believe in Allah.' So he said, "But I believe in torture and I will torture you.' "
© 2004 The Washington Post Company
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
C&P PAGE 1 OF 2
New Details of Prison Abuse Emerge
Abu Ghraib Detainees' Statements Describe Sexual Humiliation And Savage Beatings
By Scott Higham and Joe Stephens
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, May 21, 2004; Page A01
Previously secret sworn statements by detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison
Well Yeah theres some credible witnesses LOL NOT!!:rofl
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Originally posted by txmx
Oh BOO freekin HOO!
I am getting soo freekin tired of hearing had badly these murdering scumbags were treated in PRISON.
Was there treatment wrong ? Hell yes it was very stupid and unprofessional and the guilty are being punished .
But to keep going on and on because they were forced to play neeked twister for crying out loud.
Atleast they where not having electrodes hooked up to there nutt sacs !
People we aint talking about poor old victims of war here .
We are talking about the murdering stunninghunks who if given half a chance would shoot our guys in the back!
So if they were embarASSed alittle get freekin over it .
so after reading more detailed accounts, do you still stand by this post?
n/m, after reading your last post I have my answer
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Originally posted by txmx
Well Yeah theres some credible witnesses LOL NOT!!:rofl
txmx...if you re-read the article...there are pictures and written signed confessions by US troops!
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The only thing missing is the alien autopsy photos LOL.
For crying out loud people key word here is that PRISONERS are making these claims.
They are smart they know that the press and all the blleeding hearts will run with this (kind like whats happend).
They also know that this would really mess up any plans Bush had further in Iraq.
Think about it in An American Prison ask any prisoner and he will tell ya Im INNOCENT I was framed The guards are mean to me and the toilet paper is too harsh on my bottom.
When we have some sworn proof from more than just a few of any body but the accused LOL I might lend an ear to this nonesense.
Till then It in my mind will remain hear say and rumor NOT FACT.
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Originally posted by xrtoronto
txmx...if you re-read the article...there are pictures and written signed confessions by US troops!
Picture this.
PVT jones I can make life very easy If you just tell us what we want to hear.
Otherwise your butt is going away for a long time.
You think about that son.
Now If your 19--or 20 years old what would you do?
LOL I could dream up what ever I think they would want to hear hell I could write a paper that would get a pulitzer.
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imagine you or your kid(if you have one) gets picked up and thrown in jail. while in there the guards rape you, beat you, humiliate you, and leave you living in constant fear of your life.
who would believe you, nobody saw it but fellow inmates and gaurds who are the attackers. who exactly do you want to hear from?
inmates are reliable wittnesses if several stories match when interviewed seperately. it's not as if they where given time to socialise and compair notes. the interviews where carried out by a well respected US Army Maj. General, many of these conclusions where his, bassed on evidence and testimony
several people interviewed seperately give the same description of abuse. when accused the guards admit abuse but say they where ordered to do it by inteligence officers, inteligence officers say they didn't know the gaurds where doing it.
nobody but you doesn't believe it happened?
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Yeah but did we get any good intell out of them?
I leave this discussion to you libs and bleeding hearts.
Because your whines are falling on deft ears here im afraid.
Because in my dark cold heart I could really give a rats Arse about Iraq and it's people.
All I care about is America and It's people .
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Originally posted by txmx
Picture this.
PVT jones I can make life very easy If you just tell us what we want to hear.
Otherwise your butt is going away for a long time.
You think about that son.
Now If your 19--or 20 years old what would you do?
LOL I could dream up what ever I think they would want to hear hell I could write a paper that would get a pulitzer.
picture this, a US Army officer threatening an enlisted man for the purpose of discrediting the Army. :rolleyes:
this is a plausable scenario to you? you are either trolling or out of your fluff'n mind.
either way I'm done with this one. see ya.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
imagine you or your kid(if you have one) gets picked up and thrown in jail. while in there the guards rape you, beat you, humiliate you, and leave you living in constant fear of your life.
who would believe you, nobody saw it but fellow inmates and gaurds who are the attackers. who exactly do you want to hear from?
inmates are reliable wittnesses if several stories match when interviewed seperately. it's not as if they where given time to socialise and compair notes. the interviews where carried out by a well respected US Army Maj. General, many of these conclusions where his, bassed on evidence and testimony
several people interviewed seperately give the same description of abuse. when accused the guards admit abuse but say they where ordered to do it by inteligence officers, inteligence officers say they didn't know the gaurds where doing it.
nobody but you doesn't believe it happened?
Mt if I showed you a picture of a prisoner getting the crap beat out of him covered in blood and that's it you'd think OH HOW AWFUL. What I didnt show you was the officer he stabbed and the fellow inmate he caught on fire or the riot he was about to incite or how much he was resisting.
Camera photography is censored on military installations PERIOD. There are allways numerous organizations inplace to investigate wrong doings LIKE WHAT HAPPEND HERE!
Yes I beleive accountability is important BUT a picture taken out of context could infact cause Americans over there to be killed. There's a very good reason and I agree with it.
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Picture this an US Army officer ordering soldiers to do these things in the first place.
Wow do you really believe this or are you out of your ****ing mind!
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I agree. Cameras have no business whatsoever in military prisons.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
I agree. Cameras have no business whatsoever in military prisons.
even though they've allready been violated....isnt photography of prisoners against the geneva conventions?
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
even though they've allready been violated....isnt photography of prisoners against the geneva conventions?
Yes. You cannot show their faces.
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Originally posted by Maniac
Way to go!
Problem Solved!
:rolleyes:
wellllllll it turns out this quote was made up on a satire web site and then picked up by a french paper and spread around the world.
but you can believe it if suits you.