Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on May 24, 2004, 07:56:41 PM
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Does anyone think the might get one of these soon? Up to now they have mostly only offered this technology on little librarian's cars but now there are plans to put them on normal cars, trucks and SUVs.
Anybody driven one? What you think about it?
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I've never driven one but I've looked into it and I don't think it's the best solution. I'd been thinking of buying the Escape hybrid when it becomes available, but after learning more about hybrids I am no longer very impressed. I would prefer turbo-deisel as a fuel efficient power source. The Germans make great turbo-deisels that give good performance and good fuel economy. The electric hybrid only provides marginally better all-around fuel economy (better in the city, about the same on the highway) but you have the complexity of the hybrid. Also, there's about a $6500 repair bill waiting when the time comes to replace the NiMH battery pack. That means greatly reduced resale value as the car gets older. IMHO hybrid development is primarily motivated by the auto manufacturers' political concerns, not by the consumers' needs. The auto companies know that one day the greens may put deeper restrictions on fossil fuels, and these hybrids bring them one step closer to the all-electric car. In other words, the cars are developed to make government bureaucrats happy, not to give you the best possible car.
If all the money spent to develop hybrids had been put into turbo-deisel we'd all have better options available now.
ra
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Eurpeon car makers are going to be releaseing a wide selection of turbo diesels in america once again. Might want to check those out. Also, Honda will have a hybrid accord and with toyotas help ford will have a SUV that is a hybrid for those that need good gas milage and a big car to make up for a small noodle.
The cars are being developed because we will be running low on dino juice in a couple of decades.
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I saw a electric s-10 or some such in the late 90s which I drove a few miles and I gotta say the hybrids today are far better than that thing was. I'd get one if I was buyin a car but I will wait until they are few years old before I do
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They probably could get better fuel economy gains from reducing weight and drag, and you could still have a normal reliable engine.
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
with toyotas help ford will have a SUV that is a hybrid for those that need good gas milage and a big car to make up for a small noodle.
Since the SUV in question is a Ford Escape, there's no real danger of it making up for any size noodle.
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So which company makes the best hybrid car today?
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Honda Insight
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what's the deal with veggie oil diesels. Suposedly you can get a converter for $800 and run diesel on veggie oil?
Is viable?
Is is cheaper than gas?
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I drive a Mitsubishi 1.9L common rail injection turbo diesel.
115 HP, higher torque at lower rpms than a modern 2.0L gas car. It's a delight to drive, much better than my previous Nissan 2.0L 90HP turbo-diesel.
(Acceleration and speed figures are better than a Golf III 2.0L GTI 115HP.)
And the best is....39 mpg with automatic air conditioning permanently on.
The problem with diesel are the fine particles released in the atmosphere, but the new catalytic mufflers make the exhaust gases much cleaner.
Mercedes and BMW make great turbo-diesel engines. The common-rail injection has a better reliability IMO than the direct injection developed by VW and Audi.
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Originally posted by ra
The Germans make great turbo-deisels that give good performance and good fuel economy.
They certainly do, and I'm delighted with mine - Golf GTi with a 1.9TDi engine. Turbo+Diesel was a marriage made in heaven. On many journeys, mine returns 50mpg or more (Imperial gallon = 4.546 litres). Manual gearbox, with automatic climatisation always on.
Highest gearing of any car I've ever had - 70mph = 2000rpm in 6th gear.
But whatever the fuel source, be it diesel fuel, batteries or rain water - the government will always see to it that we pay as much tax per mile as they believe we should.
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When gas is $5 a gallon everyone will be looking at Hybrid Cars, oil won't last at current stocks forever people will have to move over to some other alternative eventually.
Probably they'll gradually force hybrid cars onto people my making exhaust emmisions tougher.
...-Gixer
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History channel's "tatical to practical" did a bit on hybrid vehicles.
Start with subs in WWI, desel engines running generators. Took a good look at the Prius.
Showed a prototype of a miltary scout vehicle that was desel/elec hybrid.
impressive performance & a 20 mile "Stealth" range with the desel off.
He also talked about a prototype of a pure elec vehicle that would do 200 miles on a 1 hour charge at freeway speeds.
Had a drag race between an all elec car useing laptop batterys that simply SMOKED a 500 hp Dodge viper in the quarter.
Yes they are coming, question of when & how.
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Diesel/turbodiesels in stationvagons are the most popular cars here. They give great mileage and are very strong and reliable (many need their stationwagons to to take them to their cottages in the mountains in our cold winters and need the power that diesels give.)
Organic diesels are great, but they have one major drawback....they take up valuable farmland even if they can make bio-diesel from plants that will grow where crops will not. If eveyone used this fuel then we would be even more hunger in the world and higer food prices.
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slow and complicated. only balding guys with pony tails, librarians and little rich kids with lefty parents should have em...
they may or may not get better but let the above group work out the bugs and get the price down first... shy be a sucker?
if you absolutely must have the milage.. get the turbodiesel and get out of my way.
lazs
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Anybody driven one? What you think about it?
My Mom has a Toyota Hybrid car and loves it. It's pin drop quiet, and very smooth. They opt. to use the Toyota over their Lexus for med. length road trips most the time. I was very, very suprised when I drove it the first time. It's similar to a Toyota Tercel in performance, but doesn't FEEL as under powered.
Slick little car.
-Lute III/JG26 9th ST WidowMakers
p.s. don't know when she turned into such a tree hugger.
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Well,as oil will get more expensive, and eventually run out, we will slowly start to feel that.
There is a new super carburettor around the corner that might ease the pain a bit, fuel economy is a lot better, so is pollution.
It's entering the small engine market now, but I belive it will enter the big engine market soon as well.
http://www.fjolblendir.is
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anyone that was around in the seventies is probly feeling the effects of dejavu about now.
Please save all the gas you can folks.. more for me and the glut of fuel will force the oilcompanies to lower the pump price.
lazs
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Does anyone think the might get one of these soon?
If they pass a law allowing them in the carpool lanes with one person I would consider it.
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Originally posted by lazs2
anyone that was around in the seventies is probly feeling the effects of dejavu about now.
Please save all the gas you can folks.. more for me and the glut of fuel will force the oilcompanies to lower the pump price.
lazs
:aok
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This is why hybrids will never replace our Global Warming F250 gas guzzlers.
http://home.comcast.net/~ripsnort60/Marcha-atras.wmv
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Funny clip, but that ain't no hybrid. A hybrid with the same motor would have a better chance getting up the hill because of the electric assist.
....and if it stalled, at least he could charge the batteries while rolling backwards. :D
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Originally posted by Montezuma
If they pass a law allowing them in the carpool lanes with one person I would consider it.
Actually, that's a good idea. Maybe that is the way to defeat those idiotit counter-productive and polution producing carpool lanes.
Right now they are empty. On 5-7 % of the traffic uses 33% of highway capacity. A total waste. As they exempt more and more car type into using them, it'll off load the rest of the lanes. Hopefully to the point that the load on carpool and non-carpool lanes is the same, at which point we can scrap them.
Wouldn't count on that though. To many f* unelected pencil pusher exercising their power and spending other's people money.
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Mietla, are you seriously that out of touch with reality? The entire idea behind carpool lanes is that they carry less people so that other will be encouraged to carpool.
If they carried the same traffic as the other lanes, then there would be no incentive to carpool. If mass transit or carpooling is faster then lonewolfing it, the theory goes, then it's worth doing.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Funny clip, but that ain't no hybrid. A hybrid with the same motor would have a better chance getting up the hill because of the electric assist.
....and if it stalled, at least he could charge the batteries while rolling backwards. :D
Moral of the story: Hybrids are good for one thing, and one thing only. ;)
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Originally posted by lazs2
anyone that was around in the seventies is probly feeling the effects of dejavu about now.
Yeah? Does that mean America is about to launch a new generation of crappy plastic cars, and little sawn off Cadillacs? Hilarious in pink... :lol
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Mietla, are you seriously that out of touch with reality? The entire idea behind carpool lanes is that they carry less people so that other will be encouraged to carpool.
If they carried the same traffic as the other lanes, then there would be no incentive to carpool. If mass transit or carpooling is faster then lonewolfing it, the theory goes, then it's worth doing.
Exactly, the whole idea is absurd (government at work), as you just illustrated.
Look at it as the alien would. Those earthlings are really weird. When the tarffic is light, they open full capacity of the highway, but as soon as the rush hour approaches, they restrict the overall throughput by 25%. One 33% lane conducts 5% of the load.
And what do all those cars in non-carpool lanes do? Yes, they do produce pollution. Instead of spending 30 minutes driving home, they spend an hour. Not quite a double pollution, but obviously more than if there could use full highway capacity.
I'm not even talking about all the accidend cause by the 40-50 mph speed differencial between carpool and non-carpool lanes and the cross-lane trafiic they produce when carpoolers are trying to get into the carpool lane or leave it.
And don;t even try to convince me that people are actually carpoolong with strangers just to take advantage of the carpool lane. I bet that 90 % or carpoolers just happen to have more than one person, carpool lanes or not.
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This reminds me of that statement reagan made "trees create more pollution then anything else"
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Originally posted by Chairboy
The entire idea behind carpool lanes is that they carry less people so that other will be encouraged to carpool.
That's the idea, unfortunately the mechanism does not work. People generally have damn good reasons for not carpooling. The incentive of a free lane is not enough to overcome these reasons.
Maybe it's different where you live, but up here, the added congestion (and resultant pollution, loss of productivity, and accidents) caused by the carpool lanes is much worse than the benefit of the few people who are actually able to use them. It's yet another tremendously wasteful CA government program, probably even more so than the failed electric vehicle program.
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Well, I have no emotional involvement in the subject, just passing along the rationale.
I live in SoCal, and I have no problems with traffic. It might be because I ride my motorcycle.
.....in the carpool lane.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Well, I have no emotional involvement in the subject, just passing along the rationale.
I live in SoCal, and I have no problems with traffic. It might be because I ride my motorcycle.
.....in the carpool lane.
my point exactly. Did you replace your car with a bike just to take advantage of a carpol lane? I doubt it.
You just got a freebe. Just like all parents who drive their kids to school. And your convenience cames at the expense of the rest of people and a much higher pollution.
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"Yeah? Does that mean America is about to launch a new generation of crappy plastic cars, and little sawn off Cadillacs? Hilarious in pink... "
nope... the 21st century versions of em tho... electric and hybrid pooches that break down in big expensive ways... good thing is tho that the resultant glut of fuel and cheap supercar prices will suit us retro men.
lazs
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Originally posted by mietla
Exactly, the whole idea is absurd (government at work), as you just illustrated.
Look at it as the alien would. Those earthlings are really weird. When the tarffic is light, they open full capacity of the highway, but as soon as the rush hour approaches, they restrict the overall throughput by 25%. One 33% lane conducts 5% of the load.
And what do all those cars in non-carpool lanes do? Yes, they do produce pollution. Instead of spending 30 minutes driving home, they spend an hour. Not quite a double pollution, but obviously more than if there could use full highway capacity.
I'm not even talking about all the accidend cause by the 40-50 mph speed differencial between carpool and non-carpool lanes and the cross-lane trafiic they produce when carpoolers are trying to get into the carpool lane or leave it.
And don;t even try to convince me that people are actually carpoolong with strangers just to take advantage of the carpool lane. I bet that 90 % or carpoolers just happen to have more than one person, carpool lanes or not.
Well, I don't have to worry about that here, but in CA it did just seem insane. I never thought about it that way. Had I, I would have been twice as pissed.
Ignorance is bliss.
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This is what you will see more of, I have 2800 miles on mine and get over 17 mpg with a 7300 lb 4X4 with auto and air on ice cold, and this is overall mpg, highway I get about 20.
Oh and I can pull over 15000 lbs with no problem.
http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/products/dodgeram/cummins24vturbodiesel.cfm
PS
Edge has a chip out to raise HP to over 425 hp for around 800 bills.
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I'm glad to see progress on alternatives to fossil fuel but deplore the politically screwed up incentive of allowing hybrids with only one person to use high occupancy vehicle lanes (HOV purpose is to reduce the number of vehicles on the road regardless of their propulsion systems).
On the bizarre side, will be interesting to see the new Mercedes marble hybrids take on the SUVs. Like wheel bearings challenging wheels.
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Originally posted by Scootter
This is what you will see more of, I have 2800 miles on mine and get over 17 mpg with a 7300 lb 4X4 with auto and air on ice cold, and this is overall mpg, highway I get about 20.
Oh and I can pull over 15000 lbs with no problem.
http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/products/dodgeram/cummins24vturbodiesel.cfm
PS
Edge has a chip out to raise HP to over 425 hp for around 800 bills.
My father has the same truck, he's getting in real life, about 11 mpg city, 14 freeway, pulling a 28 ft. trailer.
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Hybrid Mileage Comes Up Short
Hybrid cars are hot, but not as hot as their owners, who complain that their gas mileage hasn't come close to well-advertised estimates
http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63413,00.html
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We got turkey oil OTW. Its all good.
:aok :D
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Originally posted by mietla
Exactly, the whole idea is absurd (government at work), as you just illustrated.
Look at it as the alien would. Those earthlings are really weird. When the tarffic is light, they open full capacity of the highway, but as soon as the rush hour approaches, they restrict the overall throughput by 25%. One 33% lane conducts 5% of the load.
And what do all those cars in non-carpool lanes do? Yes, they do produce pollution. Instead of spending 30 minutes driving home, they spend an hour. Not quite a double pollution, but obviously more than if there could use full highway capacity.
I'm not even talking about all the accidend cause by the 40-50 mph speed differencial between carpool and non-carpool lanes and the cross-lane trafiic they produce when carpoolers are trying to get into the carpool lane or leave it.
And don;t even try to convince me that people are actually carpoolong with strangers just to take advantage of the carpool lane. I bet that 90 % or carpoolers just happen to have more than one person, carpool lanes or not.
check out the HOV lanes on 95 in Northern Virginia during rush hour and you wil see why they are necessary. Also the HOV lanes go in one direction in the morning - into the city - and in the other in the afternoon
re: carpooling with strangers - it happens in DC every day - its called "slugging" and there are slug lines at various places in the city, especially at the pentagon. The idea is you get on the slug line, drivers needing 1 or 2 passengers for the HOV lanes will pull up like a taxi stand. The line moves quick. I have slugged rides and I have one friend who is a USAF major who has slugged every day for over 8 years.
http://www.slug-lines.com/Slugging/About_slugging.asp
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=slugging+pentagon&spell=1
(http://www.commuterpage.com/graphics/slugging.gif)
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Originally posted by mietla
my point exactly. Did you replace your car with a bike just to take advantage of a carpol lane? I doubt it.
Actually, yes. I did. But I understand that your mind is made up.
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Originally posted by Gyro/T69
Hybrid Mileage Comes Up Short
Hybrid cars are hot, but not as hot as their owners, who complain that their gas mileage hasn't come close to well-advertised estimates
http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63413,00.html
NEWS FLASH: Driving your hybrid like a race car may result in poor mileage.
I have two friends w/ Hybrids, and they say that you really need to drive like a maniac to get sub-40 mpg. Most of the letters to the editor over the next couple days after that wired article was published said the same thing.
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You might get your friends to write Mr. Blackshaw at his blog, cause he ain't convinced.
http://hybridbuzz.blogspot.com/
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I was starting to think that a hybrid might be a good choice for myself.
I commute about 150kms(thats total both ways) to work everyday, and often have to use my car to go to customer sites in and around the city. That was until I found that unless all you do is drive around the city at quite low speeds, you may as well drive a non-hybrid.
If I was doing 75kms a day or more just to customer sites (city hospitals) then I would consider it.
I get paid mileage and not much (.35/km) so would like to reduce my travel costs as much as possible. Probably just end up buying something like an Echo. My 91 corolla right now will do over 650kms on a tank of gas now (50L). Shame it costs over $35 to fill it. Heh I know thats nothing compared to some of you driving pickups.
SKurj
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Originally posted by Gyro/T69
Hybrid Mileage Comes Up Short
Hybrid cars are hot, but not as hot as their owners, who complain that their gas mileage hasn't come close to well-advertised estimates
http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63413,00.html
Problem here is... this statement pretty much applies to any vehicle you buy. The methods used to arrive at the advertised mileage figures are absolute ideals which almost none of us will ever duplicate.
There is an exception that comes to mind though. I recently read a newspaper review of the Ford SUV hybrid, and the author matched the mileage figures(35mpg). He found the Ford reps weren't too happy with him for not trying to improve his mileage.
Some of the other journalists were driving around at 40kms trying to see how high they could get the mileage, I think they got as high as 44mpg.
The best benefits from hybrids come in city traffic, when your going so slow the electric is doing most of the work.
SKurj