Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: TrueKill on May 24, 2004, 11:44:36 PM
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eather give the knights somemore TGs with crusers or take some of the bishops away cuz how they have them all in one place there no way in hell to stop them with SBs or anything else. they have like 5-10 crusers shellin one field at once, and we only have one TG with one cruser. now i know the japs hade more then that id like it if we could get one of the big TGs with 3-5 cruser so we can fight back.
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Originally posted by TrueKill
eather give the knights somemore TGs with crusers or take some of the bishops away cuz how they have them all in one place there no way in hell to stop them with SBs or anything else. they have like 5-10 crusers shellin one field at once, and we only have one TG with one cruser. now i know the japs hade more then that id like it if we could get one of the big TGs with 3-5 cruser so we can fight back.
Yes, another small IJN TG would be nice. I'm not quite sure if it historical, but it would be nice.
The IJN and the small allied TG did come together last night SW of A20. I had great fun, but it seemed that the allied TG was caught sleeping. Only two destroyer on the allied side got away with no losses for the IJN.
Yes another TG for the IJN would be nice.
afool
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Originally posted by TrueKill
eather give the knights somemore TGs with crusers or take some of the bishops away cuz how they have them all in one place there no way in hell to stop them with SBs or anything else. they have like 5-10 crusers shellin one field at once, and we only have one TG with one cruser. now i know the japs hade more then that id like it if we could get one of the big TGs with 3-5 cruser so we can fight back.
Guys it's The Battle of Okinawa The IJN is not supposed to have an equal number of ships. Just like in the early Solomon setups the USN has fewer ships. If I remember right the IJN only sortied one TF during the battle built around the battleship Yamato. It's job was to try and beach it'self near the invasion beaches and shell the Americans. It didnt make it. By this time of the war the IJN was nearly out of capital ships.
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no way in hell to stop them with SBs or anything else.
The settings may be off. Its only supposed to take 4k to kill a CV. I think its supposed to be 750lbs for any other ship. That being said, on more than one occasion there has been a ship that took 10 times the amount of ord without going down.
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Like Lowe said, there should only be one IJN taskforce. The ship numbers are very accurate, the USN had utterly overwhelming superiority in their TF's. With 6 CV's total in 3 TF's its probably a bit short of what was really there (werent there 2 fast carrier task groups with 4 CV's each in RL?), but more would be overkill in the CT.
Just as in Second Wind, a Japanese "victory" should be merely slowing down the USN, not stopping them. For whatever reason (I dont know why) its not playing out like that, and I think that is at the heart of Hawks displeasure with this set. Some will say its the Niki, but I dont think that is the sole reason.
I can understand that, but I dont know what we could do to fix it.
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Originally posted by Grits
Some will say its the Niki, but I dont think that is the sole reason.
On my rare opportunities to fly the American side, I've noted that virtually all the Japanese flyers are in Niks. I'm surprised at you guys. The Tony is a really nice plane, and much more evenly matched with the blue birds. Where's your sense of adventure?
- oldman
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After the first night I have not flown the Niki, I have flown the Ki-61 exclusively except when upping from a capped field, in which case I'll take the Zeke.
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Originally posted by Löwe
Guys it's The Battle of Okinawa The IJN is not supposed to have an equal number of ships. Just like in the early Solomon setups the USN has fewer ships. If I remember right the IJN only sortied one TF during the battle built around the battleship Yamato. It's job was to try and beach it'self near the invasion beaches and shell the Americans. It didnt make it. By this time of the war the IJN was nearly out of capital ships.
Umm... didn't I say "I'm not quite sure if it's historical, but it would be nice. " didn't mean to cause trouble, was just agreeing with Truekill that it would be nice.
a(simple)fool
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This is the trouble with taking what is essentially a Scenario design and making it a CT setup. The seams do show sometimes. Problems like this are common, as it wasnt designed to be a free for all arena setup.
Thats not to say its not a worthy CT setup, but one should be mindfull of some of the pitfalls.
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Well hell .... just design a generic terrain for each setting and be done with it.
Pacific
Western Euro
Eastern Euro
Med
Africa
Design them to be "perfectly even." (Both sides get exactly the same number of fleets, bases,ports, spawnpoints, strat, ack, aaa.)
Give the bombers enough room to up from rear fields to bomb strat and base their planes there. Give the fighters enough bases forward to always have a fight handy. Give the spawn points enough room from each other so they don't basically "spawn and camp" or "spawn and capture." Have the fleets spawn in "neutral locations" (NOT right next to a base or port anywhere).
All settings left "CT standard."
Then let the planeset define the time period.
But I'll tell ya something. It's nice to have an historically accurate map to immerse in.
Lastly but not leastly .... BEER. :D
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Originally posted by Oldman731
On my rare opportunities to fly the American side, I've noted that virtually all the Japanese flyers are in Niks. I'm surprised at you guys. The Tony is a really nice plane, and much more evenly matched with the blue birds. Where's your sense of adventure?
- oldman
Your "Sense of Adventure" wears pretty thin after the first 30 min. of chaseing Corsair pilots around that won't engage unless they have the advantage. You want the fastest plane out there.
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Originally posted by Jester
Your "Sense of Adventure" wears pretty thin after the first 30 min. of chaseing Corsair pilots around that won't engage unless they have the advantage. You want the fastest plane out there.
Neh. All IJ pilots have been getting their birds (any model) to the stratosphere with ease, "Mr. My Sense of Adventure is Being Snuffed Out by the Other Player's Overly Cautious Tactics." You grab ... I'll grab. Even if it takes me longer and I gotta take a drop tank. Even if I gotta wait until my opponent's A.D.D. kicks in. Even I lose connection during the 45 minutes of positioning and hafta log back on to start all over. :D
Man ... I'm gonna miss this setup when it disappears for six months. ;)
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The Ki-61 is certainly capable of fighting the US types, its better than the A6M5, and very close (I find) to the capabilities of a N1K2. Like all the a/c it takes some getting used to, but if they fight as a team they can be deadly.
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Neither the a6m5 nor ki-61 accelerate fast enough to close for the kill at the brief moment right before the f4u decides to run...
The a6m5 can play angles all day and is quite effective but the blue pilot can just nose down and walk away.
The ki-61 can close fast in a dive and turns well enough to cut off a break and get a kill. At co alt merge however it lacks the climb to out zoom and it lacks the acceleration out of a turn to close for the kill.
Nikis can accelerate very well out of a turn; it climbs well, dives well and has a better ammo load.
Typical blue plane merge is “go for the HO”, and a choice between a split esse and run for home/ack or a flat extension covering at least a sector.
Therefore as long as folks run, there will be a need nikis in most Pac set ups...
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Originally posted by Arlo
Neh. All IJ pilots have been getting their birds (any model) to the stratosphere with ease, "Mr. My Sense of Adventure is Being Snuffed Out by the Other Player's Overly Cautious Tactics." You grab ... I'll grab. Even if it takes me longer and I gotta take a drop tank. Even if I gotta wait until my opponent's A.D.D. kicks in. Even I lose connection during the 45 minutes of positioning and hafta log back on to start all over. :D
Man ... I'm gonna miss this setup when it disappears for six months. ;)
I've only been back a couple of dazes. But I'm finding the fights to be in the CV ack umbrella. So it's either die a death of many pings or stay under 3K. No need to fly to the stratosphere.
afool
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Originally posted by Arlo
Neh. ALL IJ pilots have been getting their birds (any model) to the stratosphere with ease,
ALL IJ pilots? You sure about that Arlo? :p
I've made my peace with this set, I like it fine.
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BEER
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Originally posted by Jester
Your "Sense of Adventure" wears pretty thin after the first 30 min. of chaseing Corsair pilots around that won't engage unless they have the advantage. You want the fastest plane out there.
Why turn an F4U? You know it wont last. So, why does me(or anyone else) running in a corsair have to do with you guys hording in N1K2Js? I actually enjoy out turning AND out running the N1K2J in the F6F but thats not my point!:rolleyes:
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"Therefore as long as folks run, there will be a need nikis in most Pac set ups..."
Oh right, nobody ever runs in ETO setups, please. I suppose you turn and fight in a Fw190A-5 while dragging a Spit IX? funny I didnt see anybody using those tactics last 1944 ETO setup, where I flew axis all week. Rather the 190s would use better low level speed and teamwork....hmm...sounds familiar.
...as far as the Ki-61 goes its an effective fighter, plain and simple, the N1K2 belongs in those setups where it should be, like Okinawa (vs the F4U-1D), but its not required "in most PAC setups" as the Ki-61 can fight the F4F, F6F, and F4U-1 birdcage.
...btw try HurricaneIs vs 110s next BoF, have fun.
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It also strikes me that there is much whining from folks who expect the F4U pilots to fly like complete morons, in circles, so the N1K2, A6M5 whatever can just close in and blow them into next week. Get real.
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I already posted that Squire!!!!!!! Nobody has or will coment on it!
Anyway, I thought I would coment on me and the F4U vs A6M5b. I went and looked at me stats so for for the week. This is what I found...plus I will explain:
vs A6M5b
F4U-1........1 kill........0 deaths
F4U-1D......1 kill........2 deaths
I will "dogfight" the A6M5. The A6M5 in AH is much different than in warbirds. It is way much better in AH. The thing retains E like you wouldnt belive but you still have a chance if there arent any other guys close by. I was killed both times...by Deej but he died too! Deej is the only A6M5 I had a chance to fight. I ran across a few but would have been dead meat if I tried to fight them.
Lets move on...
Ki-61 I actually fear this fighter more than the N1J2K as a fighter.
F4U-1D.........10 kills........0 deaths
F6F.................2 kills........0 deaths
It actually fights better at higher speeds!!!!!!!!!!!!
lets move on.....
N1K2J, the so called most feared IJA fighter!
F4U-1D..............18 kills..........1 death
F6F......................6 kills..........3 deaths
FM2.....................2 kills..........0 deaths
F4U-1..................1.kill............0 deaths
P-47D-30.............1 kill............0 deaths
Guys, I am not here to dogfight. I am here to fly-kill-rtb. I dogfight only if I am 1 vs 1 with a good entry to the fight. I am not here to be the best (this is a freaken sim !!!) Leave the best for the guys that did and do this in real life. My fun is shooting down planes not dogfighting. I didnt say I could'nt, I just dont have a use for it!
The F4U is no more ubber in here vs the Zero than the 190 is vs the spit or Hurricane. Nor the 262 vs the Tempest or P-51D. Not only that but the LW planes eccelerate a F!@# he11 of a lot faster than the US Navy planes vs the IJ planes!!!!!! There are still plenty of "other" lanes to fight. We proved this a while back with both the 262 and 163 in the PTO along with the Chog and F4U-4. Again a few set-ups ago in the ETO vs the 262. They are a pain to avoid but they are not stupid enough to slow down. Some guys can dogfight in the F4U. I can hold my own but again, thats not why I fly.
Later!
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it would be a good map if the dam 88mm flak didnt kill you before u get to 5k i just want a cruser fleet so we can take out some of the enemy ships that are just porkin the fields.
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Well said Hawk, and remember the golden rule, its only "Bore and Zoom" when its non LW a/c doing it, otherwise its advanced acm yada yada yada.
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Hawk, just fly what you want, how you want and let people complain.
You and I are about as opposite as can be in the way we choose to fly, and thats OK, neither is better or worse, they are just different. I would never accept anyone telling me how to fly and you shouldn't either, do what you want and have fun.
Just ignore people that talk trash to you (even me sometimes). Send them a and move on.
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Originally posted by Squire
Oh right, nobody ever runs in ETO setups, please. I suppose you turn and fight in a Fw190A-5 while dragging a Spit IX? funny I didnt see anybody using those tactics last 1944 ETO setup, where I flew axis all week.
Actually, I turn fight the A5, but then again you know yourself that I get kilt a lot doing it. :)
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A8 can turn a bit too.
Ok ... enough of the nonsense .... let's get serious here.
Norton ... I know that you know that I know that you know that the best planeset HT could hope to model would be the planes from the Spanish Civil War.
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It also strikes me that there is much whining from folks who expect the F4U pilots to fly like complete morons, in circles, so the N1K2, A6M5 whatever can just close in and blow them into next week.
Funny aint it?
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Besides, its the P-38 that the Japs hated, not the F4Us! They did not call it the "Fork Tail Devil" for nothing!!!
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Originally posted by Squire
"Therefore as long as folks run, there will be a need nikis in most Pac set ups..."
Oh right, nobody ever runs in ETO setups, please. I suppose you turn and fight in a Fw190A-5 while dragging a Spit IX? funny I didnt see anybody using those tactics last 1944 ETO setup, where I flew axis all week. Rather the 190s would use better low level speed and teamwork....hmm...sounds familiar.
...as far as the Ki-61 goes its an effective fighter, plain and simple, the N1K2 belongs in those setups where it should be, like Okinawa (vs the F4U-1D), but its not required "in most PAC setups" as the Ki-61 can fight the F4F, F6F, and F4U-1 birdcage.
...btw try HurricaneIs vs 110s next BoF, have fun.
There are other options between turn fighting and running. The F4u will out roll any Jap plane just like an a5 will out roll a spit 9. The a5 out accllerates the spit 9 and is faster. So there's no need to run...... Just fight and kill them....
If you fly a5s and F4us with high speed ho passes and long extensions then you dont know how to fly them.
I know planes run in the eto, just like the main. Especially allied planes... However, because they suck and it maybe "smart" for them to run doesnt equate to fun. Its no fun chasing runners around whether they are in a 110 or an F4u.
I have flown a hurri 1 plenty. In the first BoB set ups in the CT most players flew axis. Folks complained how in the hurri they couldnt get killls especially against the ju88. I went up and shot down 4 ju88s, rearmed upped again and killed 2 109s and a 110... I had np with it... I have said that for the BoF that the 110 we have in ah has a db601n eng and doesnt belong in that set.
But the 110 is not some uber plane.. It has weak mgff guns and a weak tail.
Who said the ki61 isnt a good plane? Its just one on those planes that isnt as good as the a6m5 or niki in a close in dog fight. It lacks the accelleration and climb rate to take advantage of those narrow opportunities to close for the kill. Flown with altitude and energy it can "hold its own" but only if the f4u obliges him.
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i dont know if yall read the title of the post but its TASK GROUPS not planes. so if you dont have anything to say about the fleets dont post here. i hate when people take the post way off the subject
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Originally posted by Squire
It also strikes me that there is much whining from folks who expect the F4U pilots to fly like complete morons, in circles, so the N1K2, A6M5 whatever can just close in and blow them into next week. Get real.
Don't get me wrong guys - wasn't a whine just trying to explain why you see most guys flying the Niki for the Japanese side.
It comes down to TACTICS.
It is SMART flying for the Corsairs (and to some extent the Hellcats) to do their boom and zoom flying. It plays to the strengths of thier aircraft and the weaknesses of the enemys.
On the same hand it also SMART tactics for the Japanese pilots to bunch their aircraft together. This makes the Allies come in close if they want a shot and thus it increases the chances of getting a shot at them or forcing them low where they can pile on before they can run.
SIMPLE TACTICS
Both sides (most of the time) fly smart and both sides play to win and shoot the other guys down. While this is both smart and historical flying - it makes for some boring flying you must admitt. Still that is the name of the game and the quality of opposition you are up against. You need to get used to it or move to the MA.
As for those that constantly "Pi$$ and Moan" about what the other side is doing, how they are flying, what aircraft they are flying or won't fly like they want them to - they have too much time on their hands IMHO.
:aok
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Originally posted by Jester
As for those that constantly "Pi$$ and Moan" about what the other side is doing, how they are flying, what aircraft they are flying or won't fly like they want them to - they have too much time on their hands IMHO.
:aok
Well sure they do. I saw a fella log on tonight for 45 minutes ... beechin' and moanin' about how unfun it was to have to go into the other side's ack to try to vulch them or bounce them from above and how waiting for them to grab to coalt was boring him to tears and then heading back to his base, going on and on about how unfun everyone on the other side was making the game for him. He was still going on about it as I informed him that I was flying his way, I was out of ack, was alone and under his zeke and willing to give him the advantage he needed to have fun. And he got a kill. I gave him somewhat of a "your welcome" and he STILL wasn't happy. He logged a couple of minutes later.
I'm with you. Dunno why some of the more miserable souls even bother logging on at all.
It's good to see JG54 setting the example.
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I'm jealous, next time you attain that level of magnanimty please call so I cal log on. my phone # is 1 800 867 5309 keep for a good time.
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Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
Besides, its the P-38 that the Japs hated, not the F4Us! They did not call it the "Fork Tail Devil" for nothing!!!
er you got your good guys mixed up the maggiehawk