Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: xrtoronto on May 26, 2004, 12:09:33 PM
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C&P
The US-led "war on terror" is behind a surge of human rights abuses around the world, according to a report by Amnesty International.
The organisation said America's offensive against global terrorism was "bankrupt of vision" and had "made the world a more dangerous place".
It said the aftermath of the 11 September 2001 attacks on the US still dominated the state of human rights.
Amnesty also criticised other countries for their treatment of terror suspects.
The US has rejected earlier attacks on its conduct by arguing that it respects suspects' basic rights and treats them according to the level of threat they represent.
It has refused to grant prisoner-of-war status to more than 600 detainees at the US base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, choosing to describe them as "illegal combatants".
Fuelling violence
Amnesty's Secretary General Irene Khan said the US pursuit of security had actually made the world a more dangerous place.
"Sacrificing human rights in the name of security at home, turning a blind eye to abuses abroad and using pre-emptive military force where and when it chooses, have neither increased security nor ensured liberty," she said.
The report cites the hundreds of detainees from around 40 countries who are being held by the US without charge in Iraq, Cuba and Afghanistan.
The world should have expected the shocking photographs of Iraqi prisoners being tortured at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, Ms Khan said.
"This is the logical consequence of the relentless pursuit of the war on terror since 11 September. It is the result of the US seeking to put itself outside the ambit of judicial scrutiny.
"The US has lost its high moral ground and its ability to lead on peace and elsewhere," she said.
'Excessive force'
Amnesty said coalition forces failed to live up to their obligations as the occupying power during the war on Iraq and that civilians had died as a direct consequence of the excessive force used by soldiers.
The war in Iraq, the report said, has diverted global attention from other human rights abuses around the world.
It also mentions:
Prisoners of conscience in many Middle East states
"Disappearances" carried out by Russian state agents in war-ravaged Chechnya
Unlawful killings in Nepal and Colombia
Abuses by armed groups in Sudan and Democratic Republic of Congo
Torture and ill-treatment in territories under Israeli and Palestinian control
The year 2003 had also dealt a blow to the UN's vision of universal human rights, with the global body "virtually paralysed in its efforts to hold states to account", the report said.
source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3749363.stm)
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HANG ON, BOYS, I THINK I CAUGHT ME A CAPITALIST SCUMBAG!
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I wonder how many Amnesty International Personnel have lost friends, relatives, and other loved ones to terrorist attacks????
My bet is it's very few if any.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
I wonder how many Amnesty International Personnel have lost friends, relatives, and other loved ones to terrorist attacks????
My bet is it's very few if any.
uhhh ??
so war on terrorism is personal avenge of sutch people ?
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Originally posted by Bodhi
I wonder how many Amnesty International Personnel have lost friends, relatives, and other loved ones to terrorist attacks????
My bet is it's very few if any.
How many have you??
Amazing how many different ways things like this can be brushed off by you guys.. Yall have learned from your master well! If you do not agree with what is written, attack the creditability!
dude
AoM
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There's more outcry here than the last 12 years when Sadam Husain was in charge
There's more outcry here than the last 40 some years of N. Korea starving its own people.
There's more outcry here than the human rights abuses in china that take place daily
as far as illeagle combatents....If terrorists put on a country's uniform and march to the flag of said country while committing their acts I would agree 100% that they are POWs.....but they are rouges.
BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA......the big bad evil US is at it again. I'd really like us to cut off our evil humanitarian aid to some of these people and see just how evil we are.
Isnt slaughtering western journalists a human rights abuse? Isnt teenagers wearing bombs and blowing themselves up in shopping malls and cafes a human rights abuse?
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Srry...just cant think of anything good to say about Amnesty International
Amesty International
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Routers
March 25th 2037
"Non-profit aid wars heat up"
The salvation army today launched a major campaign agains amnesty coalition forces killing 35. As the Non-Profit wars continue aid organizations continue to take up arms and join the militint ranks allready fighting.
In one interview former chairman Ron hansen was quoted as saying "this all started when these agencys stopped helping people and became political". He also stated "we could have avoided all these deaths and fighting if we would have had just concentrated on what we do [did] best.
Fierce fighting also erupted when Red Cross militants invaded Red Cressant camps. Prisoners are specifically being taken so one side can show the other who's best at providing humanitarian aid.
sorry just havin fun.
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You think its okay to stoop to their level Gunslinger?
We're supposed to be better than that. Supposed to be the key word, from what I've seen across America these days - its past tense and we're going down the path of no return.
-SW
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(F!) Amnesty International
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Wulfe
I do not see US troops hacking the heads off civilians.
I do not think we have sunk even close to THEIR level. Have we sunk a little? Maybe, but murdering in the name of your got or sending your kids out with bombs on them to blow up civilians is WAY lower then we have sunk.
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It doesn't matter how far we've sunk, point is - all I see is people downplaying our mess ups by pointing fingers to the other side and going on about how much worse they are.
Stop trying to divert attention, fix our **** ups and then we can have the high ground to actuality point fingers.
-SW
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Gunslinger,
Most saddening fact is US is known from the past to preach freedom and other stuff and then they get caught pants down (as if someone couldnt've guessed) from violating human rights and doing everything to find and abuse possible loopholes in the rules.
China.. north korea.. nothing new, they're communists, they clearly aren't making huge efforts in invading countries far away in the name of freedom and due to countries bad human right status.
They have invaded neightboring countries though, but not further than the neightboring countries. (plus with somewhat transparent excuses)
but well, neither of them are part of the western world nor trying to show the path for other western countries as the land of the free.
Many have looked at USA as the place of opportunities and democracy - torturing prisoners and attempt to abuse possible loopholes in the rules does mess up the picture thou.. along with weak reasons to invade a country. (could've at least said honestly "we're going to get Saddam Hussein and his henchmen".. perhaps not so much support from within USA, but at least wouldn't been such a big imago loss)
What comes to Saddam Hussein, he once used to be the puppet of USA.
During Iran - Iraq war, Saddam used gas against iranians, who then took it to UN, but USA used it's veto right and the case was forgot.
The rise and the fall - both with the aid of USA :rolleyes:
Oh and didn't CIA and Osama Bin Laden use to be good friends still in early 80's, when russians were the infidels in afganistan.
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We are already standing considerably higher than those we're pointing at.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Wulfe
I do not see US troops hacking the heads off civilians.
and you will never see it coz they can not have digital cameras, coz big boss banned them :D
lol
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Doesn't matter, people keep trying to divert attention from our mistakes by pointing at people that are expected to be savages. Its no surprise when they do it, its a huge surprise when what use to be caring US does something stupid like the prison **** up.
-SW
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Originally posted by lada
and you will never see it coz they can not have digital cameras, coz big boss banned them :D
lol
We didnt recieve training with digital cameras... but we had a solid week of decapitation training at TBS.
What else do you think that bayonet is for?
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
How many have you??
Amazing how many different ways things like this can be brushed off by you guys.. Yall have learned from your master well! If you do not agree with what is written, attack the creditability!
dude
AoM
6 very close coworkers for my parent company died in the Trade Centers :(
AFIC, everyone of those terrorists deserves a horrible death... sadly, they probably won't becasue of people like you.
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Wulfie
people down play it here, because people here up-play it just as much and try and paint he US as evil or wrong for doing what they we are doing.
As a guy right of center, do I think things like the prison scandal, and or the use of excesive force should be investigated and fixed? Yes, I think it should, and it should be investigated as deeply as it needs, to find out were the orders came from.
Does it change my opinion on the average US soldier? No not one bit, I know 99% of them are good people.
War is a terrible thing and people are going to die.
Name a war were one side commited no atrocities, or there was no tragic loss of life that could have been stopped.
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Originally posted by Martlet
We are already standing considerably higher than those we're pointing at.
You wanna say, that You *belive* to stand higher that other.
just keep blurring and ignore other persons.
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Originally posted by lada
You wanna say, that You *belive* to stand higher that other.
just keep blurring and ignore other persons.
Can I get a translation, anyone?
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Does it change my opinion on the average US soldier? No not one bit, I know 99% of them are good people.
Wow... so you have a profesinal army.... they are getting money for they job....
So they are free for hire and killing...
So people whitch can kill for someone else if they get money are good people in your opinion..
I say that all the time... viva freedom fighters whitch are not officialy supported, they are soo good people :D
Soldiers are blind sheep running for money, sort of most worst people all around world.
but Norway :D
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Amnesty International - Not a Reliable Source
By Steven Plaut
FrontPageMagazine.com | June 2, 2003
Amnesty International (AI) represents itself as a human rights watchdog organization that likes to style itself "the world's largest private human rights organization." Up to a point, it is. It has done valuable work in many countries on behalf of human rights and has shown light upon abuses of those rights in many a dark corner of the world. But Amnesty International has never restricted itself to protection of civil rights. It has long been a highly politicized organization that has ties with and identifies with the political agenda of the left. In particular, it has vehement anti-American and anti-Israel political biases. This leftist orientation has resulted in AI acting less and less as a human rights watchdog, and more and more as an anti-American and anti-Israel pit bull.
AI earned a Nobel Prize for its campaigns on behalf of human rights in 1977. To AI’s credit it has taken some politically incorrect positions. It has denounced Iranian persecution of Jews and has issued reports about the dismal state of human rights in Arab countries. It has spoken out against anti-Jewish attacks in a variety of countries. It has repeatedly criticized human rights abuse by the PLO directed against ARABS, including attacking the PLO’s infringement of the rights of free speech and free press, has denounced PLO executions of “collaborators” and Palestinian “prisoners of conscience." AI earned the badge of honor of being publicly attacked by the spokesman for the PLO, Saeb Erekat, because Amnesty criticized the Palestinian Authority's claim that it cannot prevent attacks because its security forces have been severely damaged by repeated Israeli air strikes and demolitions. AI responded to this nonsense by saying, "This does not diminish its obligation to take concrete measures to prevent attacks, to conduct thorough and impartial investigations and to bring those responsible to justice." Last year for the first time Amnesty denounced Palestinian atrocities committed against Jews "crimes against humanity under international law." It was better late than never.
Unfortunately, while recently discovering that Palestinian terrorism constitutes the abuse of human rights of its victims, Amnesty has remained reticent about the fact that it is the PLO itself and not simply the Hamas, Jihad and similar Islamist groups, that are responsible for terrorist atrocities. In recent years the bulk of Palestinian terror, including many suicide bombings, were perpetrated by members of the Fat’h, Al-Aqsa ‘Martyrs,’ and the Tanzim, all PLO factions under the direct personal command and control of Arafat himself. Amnesty pretends that some amorphous unnamed organizations are conducting Palestinian terror, not the PLO. While AI is willing to denounce PLO violations of the rights of Arabs, it is all but silent about PLO terrorism and atrocities committed against Jews. While acknowledging that Palestinian terrorists (but not the PLO) have targeted Israeli children, Amnesty maintains “balance” by insisting that Israel also intentionally targets children, a bit like arguing in the same breath that Nazi German and the Allies in 1944 both killed people. AI has never quite come out with a clear defense of the right of Israel to protect the human right of its children not to be blown to bits by the PLO.
While Amnesty International has done excellent work in some areas, its political biases are often visible. Its credibility has been severely damaged because of its inability to separate out its leftist political advocacy from its determination to protect human rights.
Among the many problems of Amnesty International are:
[1] AI suffers from an acute case of the Moynihan Syndrome. According to Moynihan’s law, the amount of violations of human rights in a country is always an INVERSE function of the amount of complaints about human rights violations heard from there. The greater the number of complaints being aired, the better protected are human rights in that country. The reason is obvious. Those countries in which human rights are the most severely violated are also those where no freedom of speech nor press is permitted. This explains the AI reticence and almost total absence of denunciation of human rights abuses in places like North Korea and Cambodia. It also explains why AI apparently had no knowledge of the killing fields in southern Iraq until US and British troops uncovered them in the recent war.
[2] AI makes no distinction between the fighting of wars and the civil procedures of judicial due process. If AI were setting the rules, the Allied troops in World War II would never shoot a German nor a Japanese soldier before first Mirandizing them and making sure they had the right to appeal their being shot in a duly constituted courtroom with public defenders present.
This inability to understand that war is not a law school mock trial nor a schoolyard game is evident in the jihad by AI against countries defending themselves against terrorism. AI has repeated condemned both the US and Israel for violating the “rights” of terrorists, and for use of force against terrorism in which innocent bystanders get hurt. AI has generally NOT condemned terrorists for causing these innocent bystanders getting hurt by hiding amongst them and for opening fire from behind human shields.
[3] AI has an academic notion of ethical pureness, which it insists must be applied in the dirty business of war and in the battle against terror. While paying mere lip service to why terror is not nice, AI refuses to draw the obvious conclusion that those battling against terror must use means that sometimes have unpleasant side affects. If those fighting terror never use violence, terror wins. If those fighting terror must never use impure methods that may cause collateral damages, this is the same as saying they give up any struggle against terrorism altogether.
AI refuses to countenance any tradeoffs at all in the war against terror. If Western countries must choose between suffering endless mass atrocities committed by terrorists or battling terrorism using means that produce some civilian casualties, AI clearly prefers the former choice.
AI has gone so far as to denounce Israel for passing a law that denies Palestinians injured while attacking Israeli troops and civilians the right to sue Israel for compensation in Israeli courts (AI statement from 27 July 1997).
[4] AI routinely goes beyond issuing complaints about violations of human rights to open endorsements of the political aims of anti-American, anti-Israel, Far Left and Third World totalitarian political organizations.
In the name of “protecting human rights,” AI regularly and repeatedly endorses the political goals of the PLO, including its “right” to its own state, and has condemned Israeli “occupation” of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Since when is taking one side in a territorial dispute a form of defending human rights? Would AI have supported Hitler’s demands that the Polish, Czechoslovakian and French “occupations” of what he regarded as “German lands” - all in the name of human rights? AI has also discovered that Palestinians have a “right”, not only to their own state in the West Bank and Gaza but also to migrate to and reclaim any property inside Israel they may wish to claim. Of the countless hundreds of millions of people who became refugees after World War II, the only ones with such an AI-recognized “right” are the Palestinians.
AI has never had anything to say about the rights of Jews who were evicted from Moslem countries to reclaim their property, and their property was worth perhaps a hundred times more than anything left behind by any emigrating “Palestinians”. It is only a question of time before AI discovers that Tories evicted from the US by patriots in the 1770s also have the right of return.
[5] AI’s own wesite links to a large number of pro-terrorist, anti-Jewish, pro-violence, extremist organizations. The Anti-Defamation League has repeatedly denounced AI for its anti-Jewish bias (http://www.adl.org/Israel/jenin/), although has praised AI efforts on behalf of the imprisoned Iranian Jews who were “convicted” in an Iranian show trial. AI has participated in anti-Israel political rallies and collaborated with Arab and other anti-Jewish propagandists.
A letter from Amnesty International USA signed by its Executive Director, William Schultz, explains Amnesty’s official sponsorship of a Palestinian Right of Return rally: In it he says this “right”... is based on the fact that our mandate opposes forcible exile. ... The right of refugees to return is guaranteed in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights Article 13(2) which states: “Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.” Amnesty staffer Marty Rosenbluth, who has repeatedly signed extremist ads declaring that “the Zionist structure of the state of Israel is at the heart of the racism and oppression against the Palestinian people and should be dismantled,” was the Amnesty International speaker at the rally.
Quite clearly such a “right to return” to their homeland does not evidently apply to any Jews. AI has sponsored events in which the PLO’s official spokeswoman, Hanan Ashrawi, spoke, leaving little doubt about AI’s political position regarding the Arab-Israeli conflict. AI has participated in many other Bash-Israel rallies and events.
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continued
[6] Yitzhak Rabin himself denounced AI for its anti-Israel bias. AI repeated refers to imprisoned Palestinian terrorists and murderers as "prisoners of conscience and possible prisoners of conscience". When Rabin released hundreds of these prisoners after the OSLO signing, he got no pat on his back from AI, and when 25 of these released “prisoners of conscience” were later arrested for participating in terrorist atrocities, AI never said “Ooops”. AI regular denounces Israel for practicing “torture”, evidently on the basis of assertions by Israel’s own Far Left anti-Israel leftists (including the head of Israel’s own AI offices) and the PLO. In reality, torture is prohibited both by Israeli law and in practice. Every complaint regarding interrogation practices is thoroughly investigated at the Israel Ministry of Justice.
Amnesty International’s website is crawling with Israel-bashing materials, containing the telling heading: "Israel-Occupied Territories - Stop Destroying Lives." AI has been sharply criticized by the “NGO Monitor” for this sort of politicized bias and for selective reporting and outright lying.
Other forms of anti-Israel bias fill AI reports. In his recent publication, Illegal Construction in Jerusalem, Justus Weiner documents how AI chose discuss how Amnesty chose to employ one Anthony Coon as their expert on town planning to review Israeli actions in Jerusalem; Coon had demonstrated a long-term commitment to defending illegal Palestinian construction and had previously worked for two years as an employee of the PLO front group Al-Haq. Weiner provides evidence of another instance of a former Al-Haq employee writings its reports on the Middle East.
The Jerusalem Post discovered that AI reports had been retroactively altered in order to make Israel look bad. Jewish newspapers have often denounced the anti-Jewish bias of AI. AI also has a long history of promoting moral equivalence between acts of violence by terrorists and acts of violence by those defending themselves against terrorist atrocities.
In a typical case of AI neutrality and objectivity, the Economist cites Amnesty International’s allegations in its June 29, 2002 issue that PLO leader Marwan Barghouti (whom it describes as "an inspiring resistance leader") is "being tortured" in an Israeli jail. What The Economist and AI did not say is that the Amnesty claim was in turn based on one unverified allegation from the PLO’s Palestine Media Center. Nor did they mention that Barghouti was arrested by Israel in connection to his involvement in the January 17 terror attack in Hadera that killed six, the January 22 attack in downtown Jerusalem that killed two, and the March 4 attack at the Tel Aviv Seafood Market restaurant that killed three.
[7] AI has taken positions that are absurd, comical, and ludicrous regarding what constitutes a “human right”. Not only is recognition of gay marriage a human right. Not only are al-Qaida terrorists held by the US in Guantanamo entitled to AAA treatment becoming prisoners of war or ordinary incarcerated criminals in American suburbia.
AI recently discovered a NEW human right, the right not to have to listen to the music of the Barney and Sesame Street TV shows. Newsweek reported recently that AI had issued an official protest that the al-Qaida and Taliba prisoners in Guantanamo were being forced to listen to background music from the purple reptile. Bert and Ernie are apparently sadistic violators of human rights far worse than Saddam Hussein ever was, in AI opinion.
Only slightly less wacky is the AI defense of the “right” to disobey the law and to refuse to serve one’s country by far Leftists. It considers the forced transfer of people involved in terrorism from one town to another town in the “occupied territories” to be a human rights abuse (AI Index: MDE 15/133/2002 (Public) News Service No: 154 3 September 2002), and I suspect a teacher transferring a roudy pupil from one row to the next might also be at risk of arousing AI ire.
[8] AI has long shown a vile anti-American bias. Heather MacDonald recently did an expose of AI anti-Americanism.
AI has conducted a jihad against America’s attempt to defend itself from Islamofascist terrorism. It refuses to acknowledge that such terrorism even exists. It routinely refers to September 11 and other atrocities as “terrorism,” WITH the quotation marks, and as the “so-called war against terrorism." Throughout its report of the anti-terror campaign, Amnesty puts “terrorist” in quotes to signal the organization’s ironic detachment from the term. As MacDonald has said, “If you can’t bring yourself to use the word ‘terrorist’ non-ironically, there is indeed much about recent government actions that will look arbitrary or discriminatory.” AI insists that the American anti-terror campaign has a hidden, nefarious, racist anti-Arab agenda.
AI denounced the US using its immigration laws against suspected terrorists including those who are non-citizens and illegal residents in the country. MacDonald writes: “The Amnesty report tries through innuendo and obfuscation to make the 9/11 detentions seem scary and illegal; the fact is, however, that the INS has the authority to detain an illegal alien deemed a flight risk or a threat to public safety pending deportation. The detainees have been able to challenge their imprisonment through habeas corpus petitions, thus availing themselves of the most fundamental due process right: judicial review.”
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continued:
Pierre Sane, the Secretary General of Amnesty International said that the USA was far from observing the rights for all people, although America calls itself the defender of human rights.
“The violation of human rights in the USA is of stable character, the representatives of the ethnic minorities are the victims of those violations,” AI’s Pierre Sanehas has declared. He added that the “bad attitude” and the “brutality” of the police could be found all over the country. Homeless people who ask for a shelter go to jail as a rule, he insists. The death penalty is in effect, “even used against disabled and underage people.”
AI has repeatedly endorsed the attempt by Belgium and similar busybodies to indict American and Israeli leaders for “human rights violations” for such things as their campaigns against terrorism. AI has been dramatically indifferent to violations of the rights of Jews by Palestinians.
AI has always regarded the PLO itself as a reliable source about “abuses” committed by Israel. Addressing the media in Jerusalem in November 1989, Amnesty International spokesman Richard Reoch acknowledged that his organization regarded the PLO, which works with the PHRIC, as an objective information source. "Since the PLO is not a government body," he said, "we feel comfortable with Amnesty using them as a source."
Israel has repeatedly denounced AI’s bias. Consider this citation from one such denunciation:
“The Palestinian terrorists are solely and unequivocally responsible for the injuries caused to Palestinian children. Since the beginning of the conflict two years ago, the Palestinian terrorist factions have cynically exploited children in terrorist activity, in violation of international law. Children are groomed and dispatched to carry out suicide attacks in the centers of the Israeli civilian population; positioned at the front lines of demonstrations to hide snipers behind them; and used to plant explosives and deliver weapons. Moreover, the terrorist factions have transformed Palestinian civilian population centers into terrorist activity headquarters.... Whoever uses children to perpetrate terror attacks, anyone who uses houses were children reside to coordinate and perpetrate attacks is responsible for injuring these children.
“Authors of the Amnesty report compare IDF operations in which Palestinian children were killed to Palestinian terror attacks in which Israeli children were killed. This comparison is unjustified and baseless. Palestinian terror attacks, especially suicide bombings, are designated to cause the death of Israeli civilians, including children: this is ruthless, unprecedented, inhuman terror. On the other hand, IDF activity is conducted in accordance with the laws of war and is not aimed at injuring civilians. Injuries are occasionally sustained only because the Palestinian terrorists act from within centers of Palestinian civilian population. Hence, any comparison between the two is groundless, and indicates a fundamental lack of balance among authors of the report.”
In other matters, AI gave credence to the now-thoroughly-debunked claims that a “massacre” of Palestinians had taken place in Jenin when Israeli troops entered the city following a wave of Palestinian suicide bombings of Israeli civilians. AI intentionally lied about the attacks on Israelis that led to the Israeli retaliations (see http://www.icej.org/news/articles/news26.html). John Podhoretz has outted the AI bias in its “reporting” about that battle in the New York Post, 4/24/02. He pointed out that Amnesty International also accused the Israelis of unnecessary damage to property even though a glance at an aerial picture shows that majority of property in the Jenin camp was untouched. Since they have a preconceived belief that Israelis would do unnecessary damage, evidence to the contrary is ignored.
Even leftists have denounced AI’s distortions of what took place in Jenin. While never quite denouncing the suicide bombers themselves in terms that ring true, AI denounces Israel’s conduct of the reprisal raids against the terrorists. The Boston Globe’s Charles Radin Jerusalem bureau chief, and Globe reporter Dan Ephron outted Ai in their April 29, 2002 article entitled "Claims of massacre go unsupported by Palestinian fighters," where they show that that Amnesty International’s charges against Israel were contradicted by Palestinian witnesses themselves. The group had falsely said that "Israel failed to provide safe passage from the camp to noncombatants." Over and over AI has accepted at face value and repeated unsubstantiated accusations by Arabs against Israel for alleged mistreatment.
Amnesty’s anti-Israel bias is followed closely by its Number Two bias, its dislike of America and Western countries. The Weekly Standard has repeatedly reported about AI’s anti-American bias. Amnesty repeated claimed the US was perpetrating “war crimes” and human rights atrocities in its invasion of Iraq. Among these was the bombing of an Iraqi TV station, which constituted a war crime according to Claudio Cordone, a senior director for international law at Amnesty International, who insisted, "The bombing of a television station simply because it is being used for purposes of propaganda is unacceptable." On these pages recently, Christopher Archangelli documented Amnesty’s sorry history of anti-Americanism, while nearly turning a blind eye to atrocities by Saddam’s regime. National Review columnist Jonah Goldberg in an article entitled Hypocrophobia, quotes Irene Khan, the head of Amnesty, as denouncing Western reports documenting human rights abuses by Saddam’s Iraq because they might be used to justify an Allied invasion of Iraq,
Heather MacDonald sums things up thus: “Such highly politicized and error-filled criticism of American anti-terrorism efforts devalues the currency of human rights advocacy. Though Amnesty International has done vital work on behalf of prisoners of conscience, it undermines its own credibility when it claims that allowing 9/11 detainees to exercise only in the early morning is a human rights violation. While in the terrible aftermath of 9/11 individual law enforcement officers may have committed some procedural irregularities, Amnesty and its fellow advocates fail to demonstrate any constitutional or international law violations. In their condemnation of the government for taking lawful actions to protect its citizens from catastrophic attack, these civil rights defenders appear to have lost all touch with reality.”
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Go practice english more. Your posts are mostly giberish.
Wulfie, all you have to do to see why stuff like this is downplayed is look at jokers like Ladas, posts (if you have a giberish decoder ring).
I think he is saying our troops are mercinary scum because the volenteer and get paid.
Hell even Fishu is implying the US does evil things all the time.
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See Gto, you go right ahead and tell me to look into the past to see atrocities in various wars.
Like that is supposed to somehow make it better that its happening now. Especially in such a delicate situation.
Yeah, atrocities happened in the past - but that can't be used as a justification for it happening now. Learn from the past.
Its ironic though, the same people down playing our mistakes, and saying to just forget about it and move on, are pretty much the same ones that are persistently dredging up those petty French insults over and over and over and over and over and over and etc. Interesting to say the least.
-SW
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Lada is eaglecz, if you haven't learned to ignore his drivel - best to start. The posts he makes are asinine to the max.
I just scroll over Fishu's posts, if you've read one - you've read them all.
-SW
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(http://www.boxofficeprophets.com/tickermaster/images/underdog.jpg)
they are an underdog org - the big guy is always the baddy
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Wulfie
I am not justifing anything! I already said it was wrong and we should try and prevent it and investigate it.
I am not trying to down play what has happend by pointing out atrocities happen.
I am saying they happen in war, and I honestly do not think they will even NOT happen in war.
Should we try not to, yes, should we punish those responosble, yes, will that make any difference who knows.
Do you honestly think a war can be waged were someone somewere wont see something as an atrocitiy? or that none will happen?
It seems to me thats like having a society were no one murders or steals. It has never happend nor will it.
Again, I am not downplaying this, as I have already said, I think its bad, and should be investigated and stopped.
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This isn't a war anymore though, its an occupation. I can see things happening on the battlefield, in a fire fight, in a city with an ambush, on a convoy getting ambushed during an occupation and **** going down less than perfect or the way its preferred...
but this prison deal, it was far removed from conflict. Its not an atrocity to me, its just a major cluster**** and has little to do with any war. There was no "heat of the moment", where things went awry.
-SW
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Hell I agree with what you just posted Wulfie!
It is a cluster ****, and the people responisble should pay dearly.
Has anyone here really said we should just ignore it?
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And what do you thing about max punishment for guys from prison ?
Max punishment is 1 year.
somehow its :rofl
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No, just going by posts - this isn't the only instance, just the quickest to use - where things like these are stated :
"There's more outcry here than the last 12 years when Sadam Husain was in charge
There's more outcry here than the last 40 some years of N. Korea starving its own people.
There's more outcry here than the human rights abuses in china that take place daily"
I'm trying to say that that **** is expected from those **** hole leaders.
The prison deal was a mind blower to the world because THAT was never expected to come from us.
-SW
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Originally posted by Bodhi
6 very close coworkers for my parent company died in the Trade Centers :(
AFIC, everyone of those terrorists deserves a horrible death... sadly, they probably won't becasue of people like you.
Because of folk like me, eh? Bodhi you have no idea..
Six very close co-workers lost? Very sad indeed. People contend with loss everyday.
Bodhi, your so blind by your hate its frightening.. So blind indeed you cannot realize what you wish for already has happened. Everyone of those people that carried out the death of your 6 close co-workers ARE dead.. What you want now is not justice, but revenge. That is not christian like nor is it the answer to this world's problems.. But do not take my word for it.. Consider the word from your god himself that violence produces more violence.. Until the american christian war machine wakes up and realizes this very acute point, that said group is no better than the group it wishes to destroy..
dude
AoM
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
Because of folk like me, eh? Bodhi you have no idea..
Six very close co-workers lost? Very sad indeed. People contend with loss everyday.
Bodhi, your so blind by your hate its frightening.. So blind indeed you cannot realize what you wish for already has happened. Everyone of those people that carried out the death of your 6 close co-workers ARE dead.. What you want now is not justice, but revenge. That is not christian like nor is it the answer to this world's problems.. But do not take my word for it.. Consider the word from your god himself that violence produces more violence.. Until the american christian war machine wakes up and realizes this very acute point, that said group is no better than the group it wishes to destroy..
dude
AoM
Um, no. Now we kill the people that planned it. Then we kill the people that funded it. Then we kill the people that supported it.....
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Originally posted by Martlet
Um, no. Now we kill the people that planned it. Then we kill the people that funded it. Then we kill the people that supported it.....
Good plan.. Im sure once thats done the world will be free of terrorist.. There is no cycle of violence here..
Do these peoples considered responsible recieve a trial? Or are we just to kill them on someone's word?
Which of the 3 actions listed does Iraqi fall into?? Which action does the many thousands of civilians killed in Iraqi fall into.. How many more terrorist are we creating in Iraqi? None? These slain people's families will just forgive and forget, right??
dude
AoM
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
Good plan.. Im sure once thats done the world will be free of terrorist.. There is no cycle of violence here..
Which of the 3 actions listed does Iraqi fall into?? Which action does the many thousands of civilians killed in Iraqi fall into.. How many more terrorist are we creating in Iraqi? None? These slain people's families will just forgive and forget, right??
dude
AoM
Depends on who you are.
Iraq definitely funded terrorism.
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Originally posted by Martlet
Depends on who you are.
Iraq definitely funded terrorism.
So has America...... in south america.. first to mind was for the Dole fruit company...
nm ... im out till later..
dude
AoM
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LOL Yeah AI Right up there with the UN:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by Pooh21
(F!) Amnesty International
now you did it. ravs will be very displeased when he returns.
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
Because of folk like me, eh? Bodhi you have no idea..
Six very close co-workers lost? Very sad indeed. People contend with loss everyday.
Bodhi, your so blind by your hate its frightening.. So blind indeed you cannot realize what you wish for already has happened. Everyone of those people that carried out the death of your 6 close co-workers ARE dead.. What you want now is not justice, but revenge. That is not christian like nor is it the answer to this world's problems.. But do not take my word for it.. Consider the word from your god himself that violence produces more violence.. Until the american christian war machine wakes up and realizes this very acute point, that said group is no better than the group it wishes to destroy..
dude
AoM
Everyone of those people that carried out the attack are dead... that is very obvious, even for you. Yet, you fail to realise is that the army of terrorists called Al Quaeda is still alive and operating. When they are eliminated, that is far from the end, as there are many more terrorists out there who need to be brought down as well. This is not revenge, it is a fact of life that needs to be carried out. Unfortunately liberal pansies like yourself, are content to allow these groups to fester and grow, until they attack again, then you will scream bloody murder at our intel and military for not preventing it in the first place. I do hate terrorists, and, I guess according to God, I am wrong for not forgiving, that is something that I am willing to stand up for when the time comes. You on the other hand seem content to bash the president, blame the conduct of a few on an entire army, and generally remain a malcontent imbecile who bases his beliefs on just how much it can get him and shreck the rest of the world. Well Mr. Wizard, how would you fix the problem? Surrender to terrorism? Beg them not to attack us again and you'll leave them alone.... please astonish me with a well thought out plan, it would be a surprise after all the BS you posted.
As for the quote that people deal with loss, stick it in your arse you conceited bastard, you have no clue. :mad:
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Originally posted by storch
now you did it. ravs will be very displeased when he returns.
Ill say it again and twice on Sunday
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some of these people in these threads are complete morons
here's the facts:
-Yes some bad things happend and they will be delt w/ 1 year in prison so far was in exchange for testimony for the rest
-yes Iraq funded terrism...it is well documented that sadam paid alot of money to suicide bombers family
-yes its a fact that human rights abuses happen all over the world and it is a shock when US troops commit it. It is a VERY SMALL percentage of troops commiting these
-Yes its a fact that the Detainees in Gitmo are NOT POWS because they did not fight for any particular country therefore afforded no rights under the geneva convention
spin it all you want those ARE FACTS....prove me wrong if you can
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Originally posted by Martlet
Um, no. Now we kill the people that planned it. Then we kill the people that funded it. Then we kill the people that supported it.....
No way in Hell is Bush gonna go after his wealthy Saudi friends...
Period.
We'll invade Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood before we go after Saudi Arabia...
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The thing that pisses me off the most about this whole prisoner abuse deal is that they're going after the NCOs that carried out the orders of the superiors just because they were caught on camera I bet my left nut at least somone with a star had to know what was going down and several CIA operatives perhaps RUmmie himself though going after Rumsfeld would turn it all in a bigger mess.
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Originally posted by Glasses
The thing that pisses me off the most about this whole prisoner abuse deal is that they're going after the NCOs that carried out the orders of the superiors just because they were caught on camera I bet my left nut at least somone with a star had to know what was going down and several CIA operatives perhaps RUmmie himself though going after Rumsfeld would turn it all in a bigger mess.
glasses, explain to me the benefit of tying a trio of naked Iraqi's together... homosexuality is NOT taboo in the arabic culture, so.... please explain it to me? It is taboo in the american culture for the most part, especially in the military, so, how is the high command (who generally know a bit more than the average grunt, atleast in cultural value) going to risk ordering some nco's and pfc's to do some depraved acts.
In the end, I think the roughing up may come down as from high command, but the "abuse getting the headlines" ie the sexual stuff, is just going to be a bunch of sick individuals acting out some depraved fantasies.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Hell even Fishu is implying the US does evil things all the time.
Whatever, if that makes you feel more righterous...
I just wonder how you can come up with such a conclusion, which I've never claimed or said or hinted.
Perhaps it's easier for some people to defy the misdeeds by calling everyone in disagreement as anti-americans and people who implies US is evil doer all the time, just to make them look bad instead.
I don't side with the terrorist, but I don't either want to see USA fall down to their level in propaganda and actions.
Since if USA falls down to the level of terrorists, they've won nothing, on the contrary.. and homeland will not be any safer than it was prior to 911, again, on the contary. (unless becoming ultra isolationistic country, like USSR, with borders tightly sealed)
Fightning terrorism there where it isn't and torturing SUSPECTS does not help to reduce terrorism. It's that simple.
You might feel better when the *******s are killed and tortured for what they've done when generalized, but overall that will turn against the cause when wrong targets are picked.
During Bush's goverment, USA has lost more reputation than in the last 50 years and created more terrorists against USA than in the last 10 years before.
Good deal?
Maybe if you want to be able to pass more patriot act bills and keep anti-terrorism units in jobs, but does this achieve what it's supposed to achieve?
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Originally posted by Fishu
Maybe if you want to be able to pass more patriot act bills and keep anti-terrorism units in jobs, but does this achieve what it's supposed to achieve?
baaaaaaa you anti emrikan commie terrorist lover :D :D :D
nice exmaple of what you mentioned about disagreement is Post about Amnesty international. Since they wrote piece of critic, they are famous band of leftish commie, antizionist, and antiemerikans :D
man that thread is so funny
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Originally posted by Bodhi
I wonder how many Amnesty International Personnel have lost friends, relatives, and other loved ones to terrorist attacks????
My bet is it's very few if any.
I bet your right and when they do loose somebody they probably blame the US for not protecting them
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Everyone of those people that carried out the attack are dead... that is very obvious, even for you. Yet, you fail to realise is that the army of terrorists called Al Quaeda is still alive and operating. When they are eliminated, that is far from the end, as there are many more terrorists out there who need to be brought down as well. This is not revenge, it is a fact of life that needs to be carried out. Unfortunately liberal pansies like yourself, are content to allow these groups to fester and grow, until they attack again, then you will scream bloody murder at our intel and military for not preventing it in the first place. I do hate terrorists, and, I guess according to God, I am wrong for not forgiving, that is something that I am willing to stand up for when the time comes. You on the other hand seem content to bash the president, blame the conduct of a few on an entire army, and generally remain a malcontent imbecile who bases his beliefs on just how much it can get him and shreck the rest of the world. Well Mr. Wizard, how would you fix the problem? Surrender to terrorism? Beg them not to attack us again and you'll leave them alone.... please astonish me with a well thought out plan, it would be a surprise after all the BS you posted.
As for the quote that people deal with loss, stick it in your arse you conceited bastard, you have no clue. :mad:
tough guy, eh? F U bodhi.. I've done none of these things you say... I just feel I am smart enough and rehearsed enough to understand that violence will not end the circle of violence.. Kinda like when your feeble insecure mind requires you to call me names and accuse me of things I do not support and have not done you create more hate and negative feelings.. But I wont bring myself that low to reach your level.. keep on being blind and hate you christian you...
dude
AoM
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Tough guy? I have never threatened you, but I have called you an imbecille, and a conceited bastard. If you make a blanket statement about the deaths of someone's friends like you did, I would expect more people to call you worse. As for your name calling episodes, go back and read a few of your posts... As for reaching my level... I could care less what you think of me, or my beliefs. If you feel I am beneath you, all the better, because that means you underestimate me, and thats a big time no-no if you dislike someone as much as you appear to dislike me.
On the violence issue, I again implore you to come up with a well thought out plan to end it... You say violence is not going to end violence? Well, again, what would you do...?
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It'm not concerned with the homosexuality aspect or how Arabas view it as it was portrayed in the pictures, but as to who carried out the orders brought a camera to the prison and caught the abuse on tape, also here are several murders being investigated right now of several prisoners both in Iraq and Afghanistan in US custody.
Aside from the fact these persons were not "trained" to deal with Prisoners ironically enough they were prison guards in Civilian life
these looks to me like it was a higher up order to do this kind of abuse and apparently out of retribution for one of the accussed being put as scape goat he let loose the pictures so that everyone could see he was not the only one, the worst thing of it all that those who carried out the orders who are being court martialled are those who followed the orders but those who gave them are running free or given "other assignments" .
I have no question these people should be brought to trail ( NCOs) but, there should be some Officer or CIA heads rolling, because THEY 99.9% sure were the ones who ordered these reservists or national guard people to do these kinds of acts, and it's just not fair considering the power that theythe NCOs do not have and they have to take the blame for the eff ups of the higher ups.
Now if they had put iraqis themselves to do the abuse tog et information from these so called terrorists and not filmed it then that would have been better but not only did they put US servicemen and women to do these things but they also caught them on camera ,and that's why all involved should be court martialed , otherwise it would just be a show trial.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Tough guy? I have never threatened you, but I have called you an imbecille, and a conceited bastard. If you make a blanket statement about the deaths of someone's friends like you did, I would expect more people to call you worse. As for your name calling episodes, go back and read a few of your posts... As for reaching my level... I could care less what you think of me, or my beliefs. If you feel I am beneath you, all the better, because that means you underestimate me, and thats a big time no-no if you dislike someone as much as you appear to dislike me.
On the violence issue, I again implore you to come up with a well thought out plan to end it... You say violence is not going to end violence? Well, again, what would you do...?
LOL Bodhi they have ALL the answers yet provide none.
Oh And Bodhi you really are wasting your time trying to explain things to these people .
Because it takes someone of honor and personal courage to understand some of the things you say .
And I am sorry to say you speak apon deaf ears here.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Imaginary honor and courage does not count MrFake.
And your opinion means less to me than the corn filled terd I just flushed.
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Originally posted by Glasses
It'm not concerned with the homosexuality aspect or how Arabas view it as it was portrayed in the pictures, but as to who carried out the orders brought a camera to the prison and caught the abuse on tape, also here are several murders being investigated right now of several prisoners both in Iraq and Afghanistan in US custody.
Aside from the fact these persons were not "trained" to deal with Prisoners ironically enough they were prison guards in Civilian life
these looks to me like it was a higher up order to do this kind of abuse and apparently out of retribution for one of the accussed being put as scape goat he let loose the pictures so that everyone could see he was not the only one, the worst thing of it all that those who carried out the orders who are being court martialled are those who followed the orders but those who gave them are running free or given "other assignments" .
I have no question these people should be brought to trail ( NCOs) but, there should be some Officer or CIA heads rolling, because THEY 99.9% sure were the ones who ordered these reservists or national guard people to do these kinds of acts, and it's just not fair considering the power that theythe NCOs do not have and they have to take the blame for the eff ups of the higher ups.
Now if they had put iraqis themselves to do the abuse tog et information from these so called terrorists and not filmed it then that would have been better but not only did they put US servicemen and women to do these things but they also caught them on camera ,and that's why all involved should be court martialed , otherwise it would just be a show trial.
Glasses my only thought on what you say is this:
Why would an intelligence agent allow himself to be exposed to the type of criticism that is now floating around, especially that involving the photos. My own brief stint in the military taught me enough to know that photos of most of what we did would end up with me in a miserable cell in Kansas. These intelligence officers had nothing to gain by performing the "homo" acts with arabic prisoners. It is an acceptable way of life for them. So, to get intelligence, or to "frighten them into talking" I should think the threat of killing and not burying their relatives before sunset, or removal of the left hand, or eve turning them over to the kurds would be a better motivational threat. I just don't but that this abuse came from the top, it just is irresponsible considering those involved, irresposible to alevel that is way to coincidental.
My $.02
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I agree somewhat but what I meant to say is that someone other than the notorious seven had to know what was going on and did nothing about it and if they didn't they should be tried for negligence. Either way someone with a star or someone with a rank higher than these peeps for sure I'd think will be persecuted.