Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hawklore on May 27, 2004, 12:43:08 PM
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Dad wants shotgun, says he won't have to aim as well if he uses buckshot.
I say pistol or lever/bolt action rifle, still intimadating but less likely to hit someone with the pellets..
Opinions?
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I say go with the pistol. Easier to use in close quarters, less likely to be taken away in a struggle.
Second choice is the shotgun. Perhaps, if you can accurately handle the recoil, something with a pistol grip. Usually a Remington 870 w/ #4 buck.
Last choice would be a rifle. Especially a bolt-gun. You want something short and fast in a home defense situation. That's not a rilfe.
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Originally posted by Hawklore
Dad wants shotgun, says he won't have to aim as well if he uses buckshot.
I say pistol or lever/bolt action rifle, still intimadating but less likely to hit someone with the pellets..
Opinions?
Intimidation is a nice side effect of a gun, but it's not the primary reason for pulling/using one. They're for shooting people. And at close range, a bolt or lever action rifle isn't worth much. Plus you've got overpenetration issues with any rifle, so I'd stay away from those.
Handgun is best, but takes lots of training to use effectively. Even cops with years of training can empty their pistols and not hit a man standing 10 feet away.
Shotgun is the best choice for normal home defense, I'd say. It aims naturally, is long/heavy enough to handle its own recoil, and will knock anyone down in a single hit. The only problem is that it's big, and therefore harder to swing around in tight spaces.
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And to think I left the back door open all night to let the dog in.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by Gixer
And to think I left the back door open all night to let the dog in.
...-Gixer
Dogs are good for home defense, too. :)
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Originally posted by Tarmac
Dogs are good for home defense, too. :)
Yeah if the thing had bothered to come home. :)
...-Gixer
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unless you already own pistols and are comfortable enough to load, fire, and aim them well in a high stress situation, I'd go with the shotgun.
the idea of not having to aim as well is a myth though. at inside-the-house ranges your buckshot pattern will be no more than a couple inches of spread, not exactly a 'hit everything in that general direction' situation.
the upside to a shotgun is you get the combined impact of all of the individual pellets at the same time. but since they are separate they slow down much faster than the same amount of power in one mass. this equates to more 'moment of force' impact on the target (which means it hits harder, but won't penetrate as deep as the same weight/speed of projectile in one piece.) this also means that if you miss these individual pellets will bleed off energy much faster as they pass through walls and such on their way to your neighbors house or your kids bedroom.
plus you really can't discount the motivation for cooperation induced by the sound of a shell being racked into a pump-shotgun.
also your aim will simply be better with the shotgun, you have much more control.
if there is a problem at my house, I grab my pistol. however, when I go out of town and it's just the wife and kids at home, I load the shotgun and put it where she can get to it quickly.
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Use a combination of a shot gun and fusion grenades. It works great in Halo.
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tek9
(http://www.law-17.com/images/tek9.JPG)
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Originally posted by Pongo
Use a combination of a shot gun and fusion grenades. It works great in Halo.
LOL, kinda suprising the grenade never really caught on for home defense:p
but claymores, now there is a home security system.
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Went to local gun store, they said shotgun...
It was short too as long if not shorter then my arm...
7 shot, it was light though that was my only concern..
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The "Shuk-shuk" of a pump action shotgun somewhere in the dark is enough for most intruders to pee their pants.
Especially when accompanied by a low, calm, "What chyall doin in my house?"
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Just be careful not to actually shoot anyone with the shotgun. It's a badass at close quarters. Maybe take a smaller gauge and more ammo?
Anyway, I'd have the shotgun.It needs to LOOK mean and be seen, that would hopefully be the only use for it. Second option is a warning shot, the shotgun is very good for those, loud, but do great damage to the plaster, oops.
Hell, I even have one at my bed :D
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Originally posted by Angus
Just be careful not to actually shoot anyone with the shotgun. It's a bad bellybutton at close quarters. Maybe take a smaller gauge and more ammo?
Anyway, I'd have the shotgun.It needs to LOOK mean and be seen, that would hopefully be the only use for it. Second option is a warning shot, the shotgun is very good for those, loud, but do great damage to the plaster, oops.
Hell, I even have one at my bed :D
LOL, big damage is the point. and warning shots are great, and should be aimed at the sternum.
seriously warning shots are stupid, any round you fire will stop somewhere (in your kid, your neighbors house, whatever), the best place for the shot that leaves your gun, to go is into the criminal who has invaded your house.
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people letting dogs run wild is a good reason to own a handgun too.
]
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
people letting dogs run wild is a good reason to own a handgun too.
]
lazs
Only if your the stupid kind of person who dosn't know how to handle dogs, wild, or other.. Just tackle them.... Pin them, and their out unless their truly trying to kill..
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I am the stupid kind of person who doesn't know how to handle dogs.. in the field they usually come at you two or three at a time...
even as stupid as I am I am still just smart enough to rememeber how to pull the trigger. I am up to about 5 dead and a couple of gutshot ones career.. The ones that have collars and tags on em I gut shoot so that they can make it back home. Growling and circling me or running straight at me is a bad plan if you want any more happy doggy years of licking your nuts.
The ones that run away when I yell at em are fine. Not much into doggy wrestling tho thank you.
once I used a 16oz claw hammer on a pit bull looking thing that has a kid on a bike by (fortunately) the boot and bike pedal. I would have prefered a gun tho. Very little inclination to wrestle in that case.
lazs
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Shotgun it dont get any simpler than that.
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Originally posted by Dune
I say go with the pistol. Easier to use in close quarters, less likely to be taken away in a struggle.
A pistol can be turned back on you with less efffort than a shotgun.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
warning shots are great, and should be aimed at the sternum.
:aok
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It is a falacy that you don't have to aim very much with a shotgun. In a close quarters situation you have to aim a shotgun just as much as any other firearm. The pattern simply does not spread to cover a room in just a couple feet, including an open bore. Most shootouts are at less than 21 feet, especially in a home.
A shotgun is clumsier in a building than a handgun and is harder to use up close. It DOES have a higher intimidation factor and depending on where you hit, how many pellets hit and what size load you use may even be remarkably effective. If you are in arms reach you are at severe risk of having the weapon deflected before you can react.
You are best able to use that weapon that you are most comfortable and experianced with. Get some classes and learn the most important thing to know about firearms and defense. When NOT to use one.
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Shotgun
Many folks in a a panic situation when you come face to face with a intruder in your home couldn't hit a barn wall from the inside with a pistol. It takes training an practice to use a pistol properly.
On the other hand - a shotgun, while you can't just point in the same room with them - if you aim it AT THEM most likely you are going to get a hit. While some will try and face down someone with a pistol - very damn few will stand up to the business end of a 12ga full of snarling 00 Buskshot. It also has one HELL of an intimidation factor - nothing like the sound of a shell being jacked home in a pump shotgun - almost everyone knows the sound. The Police will tell you this.
If you do go this way - spring for the extra short barrel (Can't recall the legal length) and keep the other should you want to go hunting with it.
The Remington 12Ga. 3" or 3 1/2" 870 Wingmaster shotgun is one of the best in the world for the price. They give good service, are moderately priced and practically indestructable.
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Originally posted by txmx
A pistol can be turned back on you with less efffort than a shotgun.
Not true. In a house, turning corners around hallways, and in the dark, being able to hold the pistol close to your body allows you to keep seperation with your off hand and still be able to fire. That's why you don't hold your pistol out in front of you when you turn the corner. Your gun gets there before you do.
Which is one of the problems with a shotgun inisde a house. It's much easier to grab a barrel in a close-in situation and end up wrestling for it.
And what is simpler than a revolver? A good .357 mag is a fine home defense weapon. You can practice with .38's, ammo is cheap and while it doesn't have the knockdown power of a .44 or .45, it is sufficient for the purpose. Especially if there is a chance your wife is going to have to use it. I would rather my wife defend herself with a .22 that she is confident with and can aim straight with than a .44 she's scared of and doesn't like to shoot.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I am the stupid kind of person who doesn't know how to handle dogs.. in the field they usually come at you two or three at a time...
even as stupid as I am I am still just smart enough to rememeber how to pull the trigger. I am up to about 5 dead and a couple of gutshot ones career.. The ones that have collars and tags on em I gut shoot so that they can make it back home. Growling and circling me or running straight at me is a bad plan if you want any more happy doggy years of licking your nuts.
The ones that run away when I yell at em are fine. Not much into doggy wrestling tho thank you.
once I used a 16oz claw hammer on a pit bull looking thing that has a kid on a bike by (fortunately) the boot and bike pedal. I would have prefered a gun tho. Very little inclination to wrestle in that case.
lazs
What the hell are you then?
A Cop and if so I am disgusted by cops who don't know how to handle dogs, anyone that has the remot possibility to run into a dog should know how to handle it.
Don't get me wrong I love cops, the good ones, but when I saw that cop fire 3 shotgun rounds into a pitbull pup that was wagging it's tail, and just jumping out of a car, to find it's owners.
That pisses the **** outta me, and that officer shoulda gotten his badge taken away..
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christ you guys sound like 18th century cowboys.....
Laz....you sound like a scared little boy...what you doing walking around with a gun and shooting dogs....
FYI...we are in 2004....not 1840
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I don't say it's easier to hit your target with a shotgun because of pattern spread. like I mentioned in my first post the patter won't be bigger than a couple inches at in-house distances.
the reason it is easier to hit your target is simply a matter of sight radius.
assuming a point-and-shoot situation (without time to aim) having your grip slightly off can make your shot be off by a foot or more. firing your gun a little too soon while bringing it to bear can make a huge difference in where your round ends up. at 20 feet you can you're aim point can be moved 10-20' with just a flexing of your wrist
but with a shotgun you are holding with both hands, you have to make much more deliberate movements to change your aim point, so without the time to use the sights properly, even a novice could be relatively sure to hit a man sized target at <20'.
you do have a greater chance having a wrestling match for the gun though. no way around that, all an attacker has to do is deflect your barrel long enough to step in close and your shotgun is just an expensive club. I guess the trick would be to shoot them before they get that close.
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LOL - sounds like you have some horrendous crooks in USA. :lol
I just lock the doors at night. Mr. Chubb makes exceedingly good locks - keeping my family safe these past 100+ years. :aok
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LOL We only lock our doors too, and we have dogs, dad just wants a shotgun because of recent events with the people our neighbors have injuctions against..
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Originally posted by beet1e
LOL - sounds like you have some horrendous crooks in USA. :lol
I just lock the doors at night. Mr. Chubb makes exceedingly good locks - keeping my family safe these past 100+ years. :aok
Nope, actually it is pretty slim in my part of the Country - for the exact reasons stated above.
Most crooks know that if they break in a house around here they take a REAL GOOD chance of getting something vitally importaint shot off. Does wonders for the crime rate. :D
BTY: All a door lock will do is keep an honest man honest. If someone wants in bad enough it won't even slow them down. Your not in Mayberry any more.
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To me, the double barrel 12 gauge is good for home defense. You have a choice of different loads, which can be mixed or matched, and you decide which barrel to use first, or both at the same time if need be. I've heard of old geezers who use rock salt loads. I guess that's so they have no hesitation to shoot intruders, because they know it won't kill them. Only sting their hide a bit. Double barrel works best outdoors.
Pump stotguns make an intimidating sound when they rack. Most sane people will run at that sound. One time I was up late at night, and heard what sounded like the neighbors racking up pumps, and I hit the deck on my floor.
Turns out they were using a jack on their car to fix a flat tire.
It's usually so quiet around here, that that was a very unusual sound for 4 A.M..:D
What's the deal with the neighbors Hawklore? Are they neighborhood thieves and neer-do-wells? Is it a situation the police can take care of?
Les
Les
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Originally posted by Leslie
To me, the double barrel 12 gauge is good for home defense. You have a choice of different loads, which can be mixed or matched, and you decide which barrel to use first, or both at the same time if need be. I've heard of old geezers who use rock salt loads. I guess that's so they have no hesitation to shoot intruders, because they know it won't kill them. Only sting their hide a bit. Double barrel works best outdoors.
Pump stotguns make an intimidating sound when they rack. Most sane people will run at that sound. One time I was up late at night, and heard what sounded like the neighbors racking up pumps, and I hit the deck on my floor.
Turns out they were using a jack on their car to fix a flat tire.
It's usually so quiet around here, that that was a very unusual sound for 4 A.M..:D
What's the deal with the neighbors Hawklore? Are they neighborhood thieves and neer-do-wells? Is it a situation the police can take care of?
Les
Les
I hear running around in your underwear with a pistol stuck on yhoru finger does wonders for scaring off an intruder. ;)
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It works for awhile Tarmac. Interesting you remembered that, but it was a learning experience. In the end, when I could no longer stand the pain of that P-39 Ruger bolt closed on my right index finger, I simply yanked my finger out and it was instant relief.:D
Les
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:D
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I'm just thinking about the time my Dad protected my friend and me from some bad boys in High School. We sold a bag of pot to these guys, and didn't test it out first. It was rip-off pot and the buyers came here first, wanting their money back. Meanwhile my friend and I cowered in the back of the house.
We had to tell my Dad what was going on. It was an emergency. He knew what to do, he had the double barrel in his left hand at the front door, and only opened it so the bad guys couldn't see it.
He talked to them and gave them the money, and they left without any problem. I was about 16 when this happened.
Les
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Two dogs(Yellow Lab and a Black Lab/Doberman mix),and a loaded Beretta.
There are better houses to rob than mine.
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I'd hate to live in a society where I felt compelled to arm myself with awesome weaponry just to feel safe.
Land of the free, home of the scared.
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What would you have done Beet1e, call the police? You probably don't know about teenagers and what they can do.:D
In any case, that was the only time a gun was needed, that I can remember in my lifetime.
Les
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Hi Les,
Did your dad beat the hell out of you afterwards?
Ravs
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A baseball bat, maglight or a wrench works just fine here since the bruglars only use knifes (if anything) and they havent got a clue how to use one anyway.
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No. My Dad loved me more than anything else on Earth. He was understanding. My Dad was very traveled. He wasn't a redneck, but educated in the ways of the sea. He was on a cargo ship for a while. And sailed to Argentina and back. This was in the 30s. He was a wiper at first, and then was second mate of a 300 ton beef freighter out of New Orleans to SA and back. He said it was the lonliest life he ever knew. He met other sailors from different countries and was a man, by all definitions of the word.
Why should he get onto me about something like that? With the experiences he had, he knew how to deal with almost any situation.
Les
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Umm...well you were selling drugs.
Many parents would find that a little disturbing.
Ravs
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My parents were disappointed with me. I was ashamed of myself.
Les
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Originally posted by Leslie
What would you have done Beet1e, call the police? You probably don't know about teenagers and what they can do
Didn't think you'd understand. Some points to note:
1) There are plenty of teenagers in my road, and none has any guns.
2) Because of 1, I feel no need to quiver under my bunk with a shotgun.
3) House burglars are opportunists. They don't bother with houses that are locked up as mine is. They are looking for jewellery and other valuables which they can fence quickly for cash. I don't have anything worth nicking.
But please - entertain yourself by applying the US thesis to the UK model. :aok:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by beet1e
Didn't think you'd understand. Some points to note:
1) There are plenty of teenagers in my road, and none has any guns.
2) Because of 1, I feel no need to quiver under my bunk with a shotgun.
3) House burglars are opportunists. They don't bother with houses that are locked up as mine is. They are looking for jewelery and other valuables which they can fence quickly for cash. I don't have anything worth nicking.
But please - entertain yourself by applying the US thesis to the UK model. :aok:rolleyes:
1) that you know of.
2) first of all nobodies hiding, just prepared. second what you FEEL doesn't matter, what matters is reality. the reality is even where you live people lose their life and property to criminals. some would expect others to handle it for them, others of us prefer to be more self-sufficient.
3) illegal entries come in all shapes and sizes.
a. home invasion robbers,
b. opportunistic that look for easy entry or things left in the yard, c. well organized burglars who will rob your house, then come back in 4 weeks and get all the brand new stuff that you just bought with insurance money,
d. cat-burglars who come in while you are asleep and take small valuables,
e. break-in rapists,
f. the hobo who breaks in while you are at work and just eats your food and uses the shower.
g. some nut job who's taken a unhealthy notice of your wife or kids.
and the list can be much longer, ask any of the cops on this BBS, they could probably come up with a few more easily
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Hmmm, capt, this woke me up:
"seriously warning shots are stupid, any round you fire will stop somewhere (in your kid, your neighbors house, whatever), the best place for the shot that leaves your gun, to go is into the criminal who has invaded your house."
Hmmm. Aim at the floor?
The benefit of the shotgun in the shootout field are many, seriously.
1. They don't penetrate as much as a heavy bullet.
2. The pellets don't go far,- 100 yds.
3. They don't bounce so much.
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Hmmm....I have several guns. Some I would use for home defense. Yet I don't live in fear. Am I doing something wrong? Help me Obi Beetle!
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Hmmm. Aim at the floor?
a couple problems with that
1) you tear up a perfectly good floor
2) you've waisted ammo
3) you now have one less shot for no good reason. what if there are more invaders than you originally thought?
4) if you have a pump, he has a small window while you rack another round where he can rush you. single shot or double barrel you are either re-loading or now left with just one shot.
5) a warning is "get the hell outta my house", firing a gun in the city, or in a house is serious business. do it only in defense and not as a form of communication.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I am the stupid kind of person who doesn't know how to handle dogs.. in the field they usually come at you two or three at a time...
even as stupid as I am I am still just smart enough to rememeber how to pull the trigger. I am up to about 5 dead and a couple of gutshot ones career.. The ones that have collars and tags on em I gut shoot so that they can make it back home. Growling and circling me or running straight at me is a bad plan if you want any more happy doggy years of licking your nuts.
The ones that run away when I yell at em are fine. Not much into doggy wrestling tho thank you.
once I used a 16oz claw hammer on a pit bull looking thing that has a kid on a bike by (fortunately) the boot and bike pedal. I would have prefered a gun tho. Very little inclination to wrestle in that case.
lazs
Gotta go with lazs on this one.
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Well, if someone invaded my house, I'd prefer NOT to shoot him.
Arresting, ok
Scaring his guts out, ok
A hole in the floor, minor problem
A corpse of i.e. a young bewildered junky, with a 12 gauge hole in it would rather rest on my mind, you see.
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If at all possible i would let him rob me, and not anything to provoke him to take action against me or my family. I would then call the police and let them get him. Works here were its easyer to find someone on a description than the US i guess.
He would be caught within a few days.
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Works pretty much the same here in Iceland. With so few guns around, house breakers rarely have anything worth more than a spanner ;)
There was a bank robbery last week, axe being used! The guy was captured within 5 minutes.
I think we only have 1 unsolved bank robbery in our history actually.
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Oh.. a .357 has a better stopping record than any 45 or even 44 round. The all time king of stopping power at this point is the 125 grain federal hollow point .357
I like guns so having them around is far from a burden. My chances of needing one are extremely slimm but Iwas raised around people that made me realize that there are some real sick guys out there.
As for dogs... like guns and bullets... they haven't changed much since 1840 just got a lot more deadly. fighting dogs raised by the half baked or the stupid... let loose to become "free range dogs" and kill cattle and sheep and every animal they can pack up on.
Farmers and rancehers kill em and hang em on the barbed wire so that if the owner drives by he might see em. Or... the latest "free spirt" country yuppie with ten large dogs that just moved out to his 5 acre place might get the hint and take care of his mutts.
The way to handle em is to look out all the time while you are working and when they run at yu.. get in your pickup and have em chase you for a couple of acres or.... like on of my guys... run over em if you can or... after the same group goes after you four or five times.... simply pop a couple of em with a 44.
It's better if the "poor little puppy" manages to crawl off and die at its yuppie owners porch tho.
Also... When I am wheeling my grand daughter around in her stroller at the park I don't appreciate the mentality that lets an owner release his fighting dog to run free in the park. I don't trust fighting dogs and I sure don't trust his idiot owner no matter how much he claims the dog is different than it's breeding.
When I used to have to go to dog fights the pit bulls and bulldogs mixes would all just sit and wag their tails and maybe whind a little before they tore each other to shredds.... never seen one growl or bark before they attacked. When dobermans were popular they were the same... the simply attacked for no discernable reason.
Any attack or fighting dog is a potential life threatening danger of unknown and unknowable quantity.
lazs
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
1) that you know of.
You're starting to sound a bit stupid. I've lived in this town (pop. now about 7000) for 22 years. I know a lot of people who themselves know a lot more people. There are no teenage guntoters. Where would they go to buy a gun? Unlike the US, we don't have gunshops on every corner, and most guns are banned, which is as it should be. I don't want the local salamanders to be able to buy guns. There is a gun dealer I know of a few miles from here who sells shotguns. But I ask you - are you suggesting I should arm myself with a shotgun, against the local teenagers? :lol
Last night, I walked about 1½ miles right across town just before midnight. (included walking across empty playing fields) Did I feel that an armed teenager was just about to leap out of the hedgerow with a gun? Of course not.
I shall do that same walk tonight, after I get home from seeing Curval. :aok
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Originally posted by Angus
I think we only have 1 unsolved bank robbery in our history actually.
Yeah, Iceland is a beautiful place....to bad i had to leave in a hurry...
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Originally posted by lazs2
Any attack or fighting dog is a potential life threatening danger of unknown and unknowable quantity.
lazs
I agree and only an irresponsible ******* would turn one loose anywhere near people or livestock. No shortage of those in these parts though.
My Dad has a few horses and used to keep several sheep to maintain a lower property tax rate. I was visiting him once when a neighbor's pit bull was trying to get into the sheep pen. We were out hitting golf balls and so he ran over there with his 7 iron. The dog charged him and he hit it square in the head with that 7 iron. The dog backed off, shook his head a bit and ran around the house. I ran the other way to try to corner him. He gave me such a fierce look it stopped me in my tracks. I don't think my Dad ever had any more trouble with that dog though he did shoot and kill a couple others. The dogs eventually killed all but two of the sheep.
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growing up on a farm (and near a state park) we had a lot of dogs that were dumped and then became feral, and formed a pack. their numbers would almost double at night when may peoples poorly trained dogs would run with them to kill stock, and then go home to their food dish in the morning.
any dog running in a pack, chasing people(while off of their own property), or chasing livestock, were shot. just a fact of life. I've shot dozens of dogs (including a few of my own, that I picked up too late in their life and they just where untrainable).
I like dogs and handle them well, have only been bit once, and that was my fault, not the dogs.
but if a dog will chase stock while I'm there he'll do it while I'm not there to stop him, so catching him and stopping this instance doesn't solve the long-term problem.
and any dog that will make a run at a teenager or adult who are just going about their business, is a serious threat to children.
we used to have a neighbor who had a rotty (145 lb'er) that would chase every vehicle that came down the road. annoying as hell in a car. on a bike it can be deadly. a gravel road with a bike doing 40mph isn't a great situation for having a 145 lb dog jumping at you.
I talked to the owner about training their dog or at the very least putting him on a chain. they ignored me and didn't seem to think his vehicle chasing was a big deal.
shooting the dog at or in front of his home is a legal mess, and it's not like the cops are going to do anything about a dog chasing vehicles.
so one day I got fed up. I took my old Plymouth and attached a small burlap bad to one of the rear lug-nuts. then rolled past the house at about 15-20, with the bag flopping beside the wheel. when the dog set his teeth in the bag I floored it. end of problem but slightly messy. it would have been much better for everyone if they would have just taken care of their own dog.
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Its nice to live in a quiet corner of the world isnt it bee1e? I think we have around 30000 in my town, so it isnt big...but safe :)
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gee iron... what kind of retro are yu !!!! living in the 1840's! this is the age of enlightenment where if you don't hear or see bad people or beasts then they don't exist.
Mostly crooks don't have guns in the states. I don't want to get into a gunfight.. I want the gun to get me out of the fight. If he still wants to fight tho... I want to win.
iron... letting such dogs loose on ranch land is pretty dumb but happens all the time... what scares me is the morons that let em run free in the parks in the cities. They carry a leash and sometimes hook em back up if a cop drives by but... the dog is straining at the leash and this sidewalk comando may or may not be able to restrain his prize possesion.
not trying to understand why things are as they are... only trying to deal with it in the most efficient manner.
lazs
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what scares me is the morons that let em run free in the parks in the cities. They carry a leash and sometimes hook em back up if a cop drives by but... the dog is straining at the leash and this sidewalk comando may or may not be able to restrain his prize possesion.
I let my dog off-leash at the park all the time. but with her, the leash is more a formality for other peoples piece of mind than a necessity. she stays by my right side with or without the leash, unless I tell her she can "go play" (OK she may make a short run if she sees a cat, but a simple "hey", and she stops and comes back for a scolding and that won't happen again for months.) when she is on a leash it never goes tight when I walk her, she's been trained since a pup to not let her bellybutton pass my right leg or her nose fall behind.
if a dog tows it's owner down the street with the leash it should never be let off the leash, and rarely taken off it's own property. it's simply not well trained enough for public.
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capt... a minority of dog owners should own dogs. you appear to be one. I am still not comfortable seeing any fighting dog off the leash tho. A golden retriever or lab is quite another thing but they can be annoying.
lazs
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mine would probably make you nervous then (well in her day, she's 14 and arthritic now), she's a chow/pit mix. a great breed for a family dog. I've had a couple of them and they are usually smart, patient, protective, loyal and extremly clean. my youngest daughter cut her teeth on this dogs ears.
but I'll have to agree with you, much like kids (raising a dog isn't much different than raising a kid. kids just take longer) most people shouldn't have one.
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capt.. I had a boxer for 14 years. They are noted for being gentle with children... many dogs are noted for being friendly.
I believe that your dog is well trained and is very good with your familyu but... fighting dogs and certain breeds make me nervous... they can misinterpret threat to their owners or owners family... Children often cause them to react and trajedy ensues.
What I find funny is that the same people who are afraid of guns have no problem with fighting dogs running loose and owned by morons.
Fireams have never attacked anyone and are easy to control. dogs constantly attack children and adults without the consent of their owners.
An owner of a dog that attacks a child for any reason should be charged with manslauter at the minimum if the child is killed or assault with intent to do grave bodily harm if the person attacked is not killed.
lazs
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My wife woke in a panic early on a Sunday morning, saying "get the gun, get the gun, there's a man on the roof" (A tin shed roof right outside the window.) Before my intellectual faculties kicked in I grabbed my 4570 (with bayonet). I had a single round in one hand and the rifle in the other, thinking I'm too naked for this. As I'm debating chambering the round, She says "oh never mind it's just a squirrel" I got dressed and took all the cartridges into the basement and locked them up.
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Originally posted by lazs2
Oh.. a .357 has a better stopping record than any 45 or even 44 round. The all time king of stopping power at this point is the 125 grain federal hollow point .357
I like guns so having them around is far from a burden. My chances of needing one are extremely slimm but Iwas raised around people that made me realize that there are some real sick guys out there.
As for dogs... like guns and bullets... they haven't changed much since 1840 just got a lot more deadly. fighting dogs raised by the half baked or the stupid... let loose to become "free range dogs" and kill cattle and sheep and every animal they can pack up on.
Farmers and rancehers kill em and hang em on the barbed wire so that if the owner drives by he might see em. Or... the latest "free spirt" country yuppie with ten large dogs that just moved out to his 5 acre place might get the hint and take care of his mutts.
The way to handle em is to look out all the time while you are working and when they run at yu.. get in your pickup and have em chase you for a couple of acres or.... like on of my guys... run over em if you can or... after the same group goes after you four or five times.... simply pop a couple of em with a 44.
It's better if the "poor little puppy" manages to crawl off and die at its yuppie owners porch tho.
Also... When I am wheeling my grand daughter around in her stroller at the park I don't appreciate the mentality that lets an owner release his fighting dog to run free in the park. I don't trust fighting dogs and I sure don't trust his idiot owner no matter how much he claims the dog is different than it's breeding.
When I used to have to go to dog fights the pit bulls and bulldogs mixes would all just sit and wag their tails and maybe whind a little before they tore each other to shredds.... never seen one growl or bark before they attacked. When dobermans were popular they were the same... the simply attacked for no discernable reason.
Any attack or fighting dog is a potential life threatening danger of unknown and unknowable quantity.
lazs
Lazs, I understand your fright, but your obviously scarred from something, killing dogs isnt gonna bring someone, or something back.
I agree anyone who breeds their dog for fighting should go to jail, or Iraq and sleep in the sand, and be responsible for bringing in the dead and burying them..
Please do not post in this thread about killing dogs, and hanging them on barbed wire again.
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good idea... no amount of freedom or being able to defend yourself or you family is worth the life of even one squirrel.
lazs
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
growing up on a farm (and near a state park) we had a lot of dogs that were dumped and then became feral, and formed a pack. their numbers would almost double at night when may peoples poorly trained dogs would run with them to kill stock, and then go home to their food dish in the morning.
any dog running in a pack, chasing people(while off of their own property), or chasing livestock, were shot. just a fact of life. I've shot dozens of dogs (including a few of my own, that I picked up too late in their life and they just where untrainable).
I like dogs and handle them well, have only been bit once, and that was my fault, not the dogs.
but if a dog will chase stock while I'm there he'll do it while I'm not there to stop him, so catching him and stopping this instance doesn't solve the long-term problem.
and any dog that will make a run at a teenager or adult who are just going about their business, is a serious threat to children.
we used to have a neighbor who had a rotty (145 lb'er) that would chase every vehicle that came down the road. annoying as hell in a car. on a bike it can be deadly. a gravel road with a bike doing 40mph isn't a great situation for having a 145 lb dog jumping at you.
I talked to the owner about training their dog or at the very least putting him on a chain. they ignored me and didn't seem to think his vehicle chasing was a big deal.
shooting the dog at or in front of his home is a legal mess, and it's not like the cops are going to do anything about a dog chasing vehicles.
so one day I got fed up. I took my old Plymouth and attached a small burlap bad to one of the rear lug-nuts. then rolled past the house at about 15-20, with the bag flopping beside the wheel. when the dog set his teeth in the bag I floored it. end of problem but slightly messy. it would have been much better for everyone if they would have just taken care of their own dog.
Now see, jeeze, anyone who loves a dog would do it humanly..
:(
I understand the situiation too, and I myself have never ever been bitin by a dog, my own or anothers, and some of them were pit mixs and they weren't exactly all that friendly, and they would get out and run the neighborhood, I guess I just have a thing for dogs, or they have a thing for me..
Only time I've been 'nipped' is when I was playing with them, wrestling on the floor. I've also been tackled by dogs, scared?, no... Cause I know if I panic, it would make the situation worse..
But, ofcourse the dog was my own.. :D
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hawk... I am cautious around dogs. I am even frightened of dogs in some situations. If three of em are still bloody from the sheep they killed and they are running toward you and spredding out.. I would suggest that you might want to be a little "frightened" yourself.
I haven't hung any dogs on barbed wire. the farmers and ranchers here do it. It is common practice and I agree with it. It makes perfect sense.
lazs.
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good idea... no amount of freedom or being able to defend yourself or you family is worth the life of even one squirrel.
lazs
Lasz is right. It could have been this squirrel:
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/258_1085759251_sqirrel.jpg)
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Originally posted by lazs2
capt.. I had a boxer for 14 years. They are noted for being gentle with children... many dogs are noted for being friendly.
I believe that your dog is well trained and is very good with your familyu but... fighting dogs and certain breeds make me nervous... they can misinterpret threat to their owners or owners family... Children often cause them to react and trajedy ensues.
What I find funny is that the same people who are afraid of guns have no problem with fighting dogs running loose and owned by morons.
Fireams have never attacked anyone and are easy to control. dogs constantly attack children and adults without the consent of their owners.
An owner of a dog that attacks a child for any reason should be charged with manslauter at the minimum if the child is killed or assault with intent to do grave bodily harm if the person attacked is not killed.
lazs
Ok it's obvious now, your a wreck... And don't know dogs enough.. :rolleyes:
Skuzzy feel free to lock the thread, I got my answers that I wanted from it..
Of course I'd be scared if bloodied dogs were running towards me, but if they were like that I'd probally of shot them before they had a chance to kill..
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hawk.. capt understands about feral dogs in the country and the half wild pets that will run with em given half a chance. they are pack animals no matter what you want to believe... even a good dog will go bad if allowed to run with feral ones.
capt.. in washington I lived in centralia near a large state park (backed up to our 20 acres).. All the neighbors shot any dog that they seen running free.. I wounded one in a pack of three one time and the others attacked and killed it.
lazs
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Hawk, 12Ga. shortest legal legnth is the best for close assault.
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kinda immature to ask for a thread lock, just because you don't like the opinions (or realities as the case may be).
nobody was abusive to you or rude even, those are the kind of things threads get locked for. locking them because you don't like the opinions isn't regulating, it's censorship.
killing nuisance dogs is a common and acceptable practice in almost any farm or rural community. this isn't the same as people killing just to kill or for fun, it's just something that has to be done.
and if hanging a dead dog on a fence (a bit extreme in my opinion) will make that city family (who drove to the country to drop off a litter of pups, that they didn't have the heart to take to the pound), freak out and turn the car around, I guess I'm for it.
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I'm not locking it just because I don't like the answers I'm just tired that the frikin threads subject changed, and threads get locked for that too..
Golly..
Just let me say what I want, I let you say what you wanted...
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
LOL, kinda suprising the grenade never really caught on for home defense:p
but claymores, now there is a home security system.
I doubt anyone would wanna hang around some home owner holding a stick of TNT w/ a lit fuse....:lol
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
I doubt anyone would wanna hang around some home owner holding a stick of TNT w/ a lit fuse....:lol
Just gave me an idea,
Roll of Cannon Fuse- $5.00.
Paper Towel Roll, colored red- $3.00
Watching a home invader run like **** and **** his pants all in one-priceless
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
kinda immature to ask for a thread lock, just because you don't like the opinions (or realities as the case may be).
nobody was abusive to you or rude even, those are the kind of things threads get locked for. locking them because you don't like the opinions isn't regulating, it's censorship.
killing nuisance dogs is a common and acceptable practice in almost any farm or rural community. this isn't the same as people killing just to kill or for fun, it's just something that has to be done.
and if hanging a dead dog on a fence (a bit extreme in my opinion) will make that city family (who drove to the country to drop off a litter of pups, that they didn't have the heart to take to the pound), freak out and turn the car around, I guess I'm for it.
One morning I heard plaintive crys from a German Shepard dog that lived next door. I listened to that for 20 minutes before going outside and checking it out. The dog was hanging from the chain link fence, and I freed it. Didn't consider the dog might bite me, it didn't. And I was so drunk I could hardly walk. But I saved the dog.
Les
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I say pistol or lever/bolt action rifle, still intimadating but less likely to hit someone with the pellets..
A pistol is a good home defense gun. Shotguns are great, pumps are the best because there's nothing like hearing a pump shotgun in the dark. The robber knows he's in deep chit.
Rifles? Hell no...
Unless you are the only person living in the house. If you start shooting a high power rifle in your house, bullets will start going through walls and the chance of you killing one of your kids or your wife is increased.
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
A pistol is a good home defense gun. Shotguns are great, pumps are the best because there's nothing like hearing a pump shotgun in the dark. The robber knows he's in deep chit.
Rifles? Hell no...
Unless you are the only person living in the house. If you start shooting a high power rifle in your house, bullets will start going through walls and the chance of you killing one of your kids or your wife is increased.
Only reason I want a rifle is cause I like 'em.. :p
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Do you think a 4570 is a good home defense weapon? with the bayonet it's about 8 feet long:D I guess it would scare the bejezus out of someone and I could hide in all the smoke to reload. Anyway I'm more worried about the albino brain chiggers massing on the roof in the winter than squirels or berguulars.
I have since aquired a nice 12 ga with pistol grip
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Yeah there's nothing like an old Springfield Trapdoor with a bayonet for the upclose and personal moments to really get the job done. A good all round Home defense gun for sure. And compact to add to it all.;)
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LMAO I can see Lazs right now... Robber breaks into his house. Lazs throws on his civil war uniform, grabs his trusty springfield trapdoor rifle and.... (With bayonet fixed!)
CHARGE!!!!!!!!!!
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Originally posted by mudder
Do you think a 4570 is a good home defense weapon? with the bayonet it's about 8 feet long:D I guess it would scare the bejezus out of someone and I could hide in all the smoke to reload. Anyway I'm more worried about the albino brain chiggers massing on the roof in the winter than squirels or berguulars.
I have since aquired a nice 12 ga with pistol grip
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl classic, what a hoot.
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Originally posted by mudder
Do you think a 4570 is a good home defense weapon? with the bayonet it's about 8 feet long:D I guess it would scare the bejezus out of someone and I could hide in all the smoke to reload. Anyway I'm more worried about the albino brain chiggers massing on the roof in the winter than squirels or berguulars.
I have since aquired a nice 12 ga with pistol grip
ROFLFMFAO!
I read this and laugh everytime LMAO!!!
Good stuff!
"Brain chiggers" ROFL!
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Or, you could adopt Mr.BlackStratmanRC51LAWCobrat xmx and have them all rant and rave on your your front porch 24/7. That will surely keep the bad guys away as well as the jehova's witnesses on Sunday.
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LMAO!
Stop guys your killing me!:lol
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Never underestimate the power of a large dog.
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First off if you havent got the nerve to use it nothing is gunna work. Very few will shoot first and let god sort it out ... the rest get killed by thier own weapon. that said ...
(http://civ3.1bigcommunity.com/communities/civ3/fullpak.jpg)
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LOL mudder & storch :rofl
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Originally posted by beet1e
LOL - sounds like you have some horrendous crooks in USA. :lol
I just lock the doors at night. Mr. Chubb makes exceedingly good locks - keeping my family safe these past 100+ years. :aok
According to statistics where I live in London I can expect to be burgled once every 38 years, I lock the house when I go out but otherwise why bother...
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
According to statistics where I live in London I can expect to be burgled once every 38 years, I lock the house when I go out but otherwise why bother...
Yes but what are the chances that you can find something apetizing to eat?
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Originally posted by storch
Yes but what are the chances that you can find something apetizing to eat?
well...i guess hey have McD there too :D
oh wait....you said apetizing...hmm..sossages?...fish?....potatoes?..vedgetables?...
should be plenty to eat :)
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Originally posted by Nilsen
well...i guess hey have McD there too :D
oh wait....you said apetizing...hmm..sossages?...fish?....potatoes?..vedgetables?...
should be plenty to eat :)
sadly (IMHO) the only places to find apetizing cuisine in europe is in France, Spain and Italy. The rest that I've tried is so so. But I've never been to Norge. Potatos are for throwing at chitty rock bands like Stereolab, Vegetables are what you feed the real food, sausages are what you do with the real food thats still too good to feed the dogs but your wife won't eat. I can find nothing to say about the fish, I eat a lot fish and things that sometimes smell like fish. I never eat McD or Burger King, The only fast food I eat occasionally is duck.
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you dont eat potatoes?..what do you have next to your stake or fish..rice?
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Originally posted by Nilsen
you dont eat potatoes?..what do you have next to your stake or fish..rice?
Sometimes rice and beans (either black or red) but sometimes potatos also. We eat lots of chicken, lamb and fish. less pork and beef. Have you ever tried Cuban, Puerto Rican or Dominican food? Also very similar to Northern Brasilian cooking.
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Originally posted by storch
Yes but what are the chances that you can find something apetizing to eat?
Due to the fact that we have to feed the tennis stars once a year restaurants in Wimbledon are pretty good - speaking of which the place is going to be heaving with them any day now.....couple of years ago ended up queuing at a bar behind Steffi Graf...still trying to get over the experience...at least I THINK it was Steffi Graf
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Originally posted by storch
Have you ever tried Cuban, Puerto Rican or Dominican food? Also very similar to Northern Brasilian cooking.
Nah i havent, but i hope to someday.
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I don't own a trapdoor springfield but was temted to get a lever 4570 carbine..
Any gun will work if you know how to use it and are willing to. A cap and ball revolver killed a lot of folk... what it did then it can still do now.
for most folks I would suggest a medium frame revolver and a lot of practice.
If you only have a rifle or shotgun learn to hit something with it from the hip. learn to get around ur house in the dark with a 3 foot long pole. If you got to have the latest wizz bang semi auto pistol.... learn how to make it go bang when you pull the trigger or learn to like the taste of it.
I do have a bayonet lug on my '97 winchester 12 guage pump... now here is a gun that spreds out buckshot in room distance. I would say it has about a 2 foot pattern at 25-35 feet. Use cheap wolf buckshot it spreds better.
lazs
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
Never underestimate the power of a large dog.
My big dog is a chicken though He's all bark and never bite..