Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: AKDejaVu on June 01, 2001, 08:47:00 PM
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(http://www.dbstaines.com/images/Tour16_FvF.GIF)
And sorted by K/D (WTG! Yak drivers):
(http://www.dbstaines.com/images/Tour16_FvF_KD.GIF)
Top 10 killers will be posted tomorrow evening.
Still trying to figure out how to work an FDP slam in here... too drunk though.
AKDejaVu
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Hi!
Good work as always AKDejaVu!
P-47D-11 seems to do quite well there.
But it'll drop as I'm going to fly it on this tour (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/cool/56th_2.jpg)
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My MY! Three of the top 6 birds... Luftwhiners!
<S!>
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thanks AK <S>
time to perk the niki and spit IX
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Eagler
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And 7 of the top 10, are allied opportunists What does it all means Pee Wee? I DON"T KNOW!
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LOL... now, instead of one plane being used twice as much as all the others.... We have 3 planes being used twice as much as all the others.
lazs
[This message has been edited by lazs (edited 06-03-2001).]
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There is a big difference between 2 planes, each with 13.5% of kills, and a single plane with 20+%. In addition, both planes are barely breaking the 1.0 k/d ratio. It looks to me that this tour has been a big furball tour, that's why those 2 planes have been heavily used.
Also, 10 fighters have k/d higher than the n1k ( 8 non-perks) and 13 higher than the spit9.
I think on the islands map we are going to see the f4u-1d, f6f5, and seafire come way up in the kills %, and the n1k will go way down.
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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS
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From the previous Lake map (Tour 14):
(http://www.dbstaines.com/images/Tour14_FvF.GIF)
(http://www.dbstaines.com/images/Tour14FvF.GIF)
[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 06-02-2001).]
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Do I have this right?
F4U-1C
Tour 14 13.11 % of Fighter V Fighter Kills
Tour 16 5.63%
Difference: - 7.84% of kills in T16
Spit IX + N1K2
Tour 16 13.72% + 13.43% = 27.15%
Tour 14 10.48% + 10.26% = 20.74%
Difference: + 6.41% of kills in T16
Almost uncanny, isn't it? The combined SpitIX and N1K2 kills have climbed very, very nearly as much as the F4U-1C kills have descended.
And beyond that, the Spit 9 and N1K2 individual fighter v fighter kill % for Tour 16 are both higher than the F4U-1C kill % was in Tour 14.
Interesting, eh?
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Wow you guys play a game without bombers that have super guns? I honestly thing these fighter vs. fighter only stats are meaningless and misleading towards a planes real AH MA performance and abilities, that is unless you guys fly some super secret platinum plan AH that doesnt have bombers... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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8 posts Grunherz.
-SW
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
Wow you guys play a game without bombers that have super guns? I honestly thing these fighter vs. fighter only stats are meaningless and misleading towards a planes real AH MA performance and abilities, that is unless you guys fly some super secret platinum plan AH that doesnt have bombers... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Given the Chog numbers vs bombers in previous posts, I have to say that you hit it square on, Grunherz.
Total A2A stats is what more important than Fighter vs Fighter. Against buffs and fighters alike. To ignore the Buff stats is only a sorry excuse to make false points valid.
And, show me the total numbers, not just the FightervsFighter nor the A2A ones. The degree of use od the planes in AH is not the FightervsFighter list, but the TOTAL kill list. The Chog was overused. The spit and Nik are not. That is why one got perked and the other two, not.
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 06-04-2001).]
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LOL! you two are funny.
When it comes down to it, bombers deserve all the attacks they can get regardless. But, in Tour 14 the F4u-1C scored 2581 kills against bombers. In Tour 16, the Nik scored 2323 kills and the Spit IX 2094. Oh yeah.. real big difference.
The truth is, whatever supports the anti chog whine for the week will be what is really important. First, it starts with K/D being a big deal even though its not used that much. Then it migrates to total kills being so rediculous even though its k/d is constantly dropping. Then it migrates to "all I see are HO chogs" in the arena.
Now, "What about what they did to buffs? How can THAT be ignored!". LOL!
Like you two were flying buffs.
LOL!!
Pathetic.. really it is.
Every advanced fighter was designed to go up against buffs. Bigger guns were put in aircraft to shoot them down. Faster climb rates were given to reach buffs sooner. The whole concept of killing buffs is what took priority since they are what was destroying the cities. Buffs always saw the best the country had to throw at them.
That is why the potential for destruction that each buff has in AH is pretty nuts on. The motivation to kill them needs to be on par with WW2. Its a pretty difficult concept for those that want to just furball... or are only concerned with FvF duels.
Of course, those are the people that will cry all day about turbo lazers getting 1.5k kills and how it has endless energy or how dweebs only HO in it. I just had no idea you guys were talking about what it did against you when you were bombers. I thought it had more to do with when you were in fighters.
At least one of us are remembering things wrong. I tend to believe it may actually be two of us.
AKDejaVu
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10 posts RAM.
-SW
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DejaVu, along with these, have you thought about doing Fighter vs Fighter stats where kills of similar planes aren't counted (SpitIX vs SpitIX kills not included in the SpitIX stat etc.)
When "cannibal" kills are counted a plane's stats will inevitably approach a 1:1 K/D the more popular it is, since it will then more and more often encounter it's own kind.
Neglecting these will better show how it is doing against the rest of the planes.
Just an idea,
Snef
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seawulfe AKdejavu ,
I used to fly AH and was sick of fighting F4cs all day long especially on islands map.
There were too many flying around and it was getting boring.
Now i see maybe more nikis and spits but you know what? im not as bored because ....well unless the laws of mathmatics changed 2 targets are more varied than 1.
Laz:
Originally posted by lazs:
LOL... now, instead of one plane being used twice as much as all the others.... We have 3 planes being used twice as much as all the others.
lazs
you really are dumb. This was what we were asking for.more variety, ok so it will annoy us fighting same 3 all the time but its better than 1.
F4c STILL has more kills than my ride(190a8) and its perked!
so 3 of top 6, LW whiners planes?. you know what i cant be bothered with you F*^king juvenilles.lets just play with some stats to make another point shall we? count how many kills between all 3 of the LW in top 6...WHAT 5.5 thousand tops? ....the F4c nearly beats that on its own.We can all make stats work for us you morons!
I say do us all a favour and stop posting this crap if you're gonna try to stir up arguements with it.I read it thinking it might be interesting and instead it turns into an attack on those that fly LW stuff.
I simply cant work you people out.I think its BLATENTLY obvious that the f4uc perk has worked.YOU like the f4c? had any trouble getting 8 perks have we? JESUS HTC perk the dora PLEASE.
shut deja,laz,SW and all the others up by giving them something to feel big about.
they're like children.
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Hazed
9./JG54
[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 06-04-2001).]
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Snefens, I've looked into doing that, but it didn't really change the outcome. The percentages still lined up. The only thing it really serves to do is to bump up the k/d of those aircraft above 1.0 and lower the k/d of those below.
Percentage wise, things don't really change.
AKDejaVu
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Yoy two are paranoid as hell DJVU and SW, plus you act like tulips way too much.
What I said is I dont understand why the bomber kills arent counted, are they irrelevant to AH in your eyes? Just put in the kills and deaths against bombers for all the fighters, is that so much trouble?
BTW how many posts is this SW, or whatever useless garbage you post after I do?
Honestly you two should lighten up a lot. Not everyone in the world is after you or trying to insult you or doing whatever you two see is being done to you in your delusions. Dont be so damn reactionary and paranoid.
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I was counting how many posts it took for someone to throw in a whine.
BTW, why don't you run the parser software and figure out the stats rather than getting upity with someone that is doing it in his free time for no profit?
"I may not be paying a cent, but I'm still going to find something to squeak about."
-SW
[This message has been edited by SeaWulfe (edited 06-04-2001).]
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Originally posted by hazed-:
shut deja,laz,SW and all the others up by giving them something to feel big about.
they're like children.
Something to feel big about?
I was against perking the F4U-1C because it would open up the door to invite a flotilla of other "perk this" campaigns.
I do not, didn't nor will I ever like the F4U-1C... but I did not enjoy the predicament that "perking" it would create.
You pulled the trigger before the barrel was even loaded.
-SW
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Originally posted by SeaWulfe:
10 posts RAM.
-SW
i think they should grunhertz.
I thought 10th moronic post for you then too SW. What does he think hes going to do to a grown adult with this toejam? drive RAM away with his BITING wit? he may bore him to death i suppose.
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Hazed
9./JG54
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Originally posted by SeaWulfe:
Something to feel big about?
I was against perking the F4U-1C because it would open up the door to invite a flotilla of other "perk this" campaigns.
I do not, didn't nor will I ever like the F4U-1C... but I did not enjoy the predicament that "perking" it would create.
You pulled the trigger before the barrel was even loaded.
-SW
the only predicament i have read of with the F4c is this kind of rehashed crap bringing it all up again.Throw in some misleading stats and then question the idea to perk all over again.Its like listening to children SW. I'll say that again CHILDREN.
Its perked , by the company we pay money to.I as a customer agree with it.Seems to work fine.you dont agree with the perk system? cancel your account. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Hazed
9./JG54
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AK, nice job. as far as nitpicking the stats who cares. just nice to see someone take the time to do this.
wish we had automatic macros in AH, when someone whined "a whine is recorded" would flash across text buffer <G>
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Hazed,
This is the first tour where I saw predominantly a limited aircraft set.
The LW planes were virtually non existant. The off beat planes were also gone. I got all of my C.205 kills in one sortie... all 4 of them. I think it is because a squad was flying them at that time.
The C.202 and Ta 152 have all but disappeared. Its kinda sad that my 1 Ta 152 kill accounted for nearly 1% of their total deaths.
Nobody wants diversity because there is too much parity at the top. Now the LW is SOL because that parity at the top doesn't really fit into their fighting characteristics. Turn fighters... not the LW cup o tea.
I dunno... I just look at what the arena became last tour and the word "better" doesn't come to mind. Is it better to know there's a 1/8 chance that the plane aproaching is a Chog... or a 1/3 chance that its going to be another Nik, Spit or La-7?
AKDejaVu
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I don't see anything being done to me, I just don't like whiney people...
They get very tiring in the real world, and even worse when they bring it over into your hobby.
-SW
ps: I do hope to drive RAM away, I'm dissappointed in myself I ever asked him to come back.
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The F4U1c was the best Jabo plane and best bomber killer in the game...So that doesnt count any more? Thats the only time I usually flew the thing.. But it doesnt count in its kills any more? Too inconvienient for certain parties I guess.
Why not just show the Chog vs Tempest stats to show that it should not have been perked...That would really "clerify" it for you guys..
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Actually, the Chog whine has been successful, Deja,...LW aircraft did not do well against the Chogs due to its B and Z aspects, but the Spit and N1K are aircraft that a B and Z LW plane can just keep making passes on until the spit/nick dive or make a mistake...LW planes can't do that against a hog, and will subsquently die. Therefore, its deemed successful if your a full time LW flyer, you've just eliminated 20% of your biggest threat, and replaced it with 26% of a threat that you can engage and disenage at will.
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Originally posted by hazed-:
the only predicament i have read of with the F4c is this kind of rehashed crap bringing it all up again.Throw in some misleading stats and then question the idea to perk all over again.
You either have a hard time understanding English, or your primary motives are running your thinking patterns...
In what part of DJ's post where he posted vs fighter stats did he say anything regarding perking planes or anything of that subject matter?
I can't find a single damn thing.
Originally posted by hazed-:
Its like listening to children SW. I'll say that again CHILDREN.
I get the same feeling anytime something is posted by you or someone in your squad... always a whine about something (well except for Santa) wrong with the LW aircraft and how uber the allied aircraft are.
Originally posted by hazed-:
cancel your account. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Would never give you the satisfaction.
-SW
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Actually, the Chog whine has been successful, Deja,...LW aircraft did not do well against the Chogs due to its B and Z aspects, but the Spit and N1K are aircraft that a B and Z LW plane can just keep making passes on until the spit/nick dive or make a mistake...LW planes can't do that against a hog, and will subsquently die. Therefore, its deemed successful if your a full time LW flyer, you've just eliminated 20% of your biggest threat, and replaced it with 26% of a threat that you can engage and disenage at will.
Hehe yup.
Of course I never had a problem of any sort shooting down F4U-1Cs in a 190...
-SW
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Personally, I've been more deadly historically with the 190A8 in my time in AH than Ive ever been in the F4U-1C...but thats me. Chogs are sitting ducks IMO, except if Zig or Drex is driving them!
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With the Island terrain, if the CHog wasn't perked, I have little doubt it would be up to 25% of arena kills this tour. It's awfully convenient to skip Tour 15 in stats comparisons. And expect the Spit IX and Niki to be reduced quite a bit this tour, and the D-Hog, Hellcat, and Seafire to be up.
The increase in Spits, as best I can tell, for the last couple of tours is due to the massive influx of people from AW (where, I understand, the Spit IX is the uberplane) and is totally unrelated to the perking of aircraft recently.
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I expect something a little different on the NDIsles map Torgo. Keep an eye on LVT usage.
Though... we should see some more carrier fighter use... I don't believe it is going to be the jump we normally see. LVT use will go through the roof.
And I do believe that the CHog would see the numbers you guestemated this tour if it were unperked. Anyone that argues against that hasn't been awake for the last 6 months. Its the achiles' heel of the anti-chog-perking supporters and we hate it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
AKDejaVu
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Deja how did the total number of fighter v fighter kills turn out Tour 14 vs Tour 16?
Did they go up or down?
Just interested if you already have the info, don't do a big project to find out or anything.
Thx.
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I'll have to check when I get home.
I believe they stayed about the same. It didn't look good until 1.07 came out and some rather unique (though not completely unique (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)) ids started showing up in the MA. The new player ranking went from 1400 to 2000 in 3 days.
The main thing to get out of that... if HTC wants to increase diversity and avoid single aircraft domination... introduce new planes as often as you can. Pure and simple.
AKDejaVu
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Nice work AKDejaVu and great points Rip.
MiG
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In the current format there really are a fairly limited number of unperked AC that would really spread out numbers more.
The Ki-84 would do the trick, I think :-)
So what percentage of the hordes of new people are ex-AWs? While they are a component, most of them seem REALLY REALLY new.
I've been trying to coax them out of their obsession for driving (and killing) PT boats, and to stop wasting Bish numbers by gunning for each other. Gunning a bomber is kind of a waste of resources itself, but the people on the channel begging for PT boat gunners blows my mind :-).
And the CV is seen less as a tool to take fields, than as a tool to cause enemy PT boats to spawn at enemy fields so that they can be destroyed easily.
I really hate the lecturing that some do in the MA about people not constantly furthering their countries strategic goals, as I tend to screw around furballing and vulching myself, but things are kinda getting out of hand..I've seen Bish losing fields left and right with 20 more players than any other country, because half the bish are in a CV group gunning or in PTs, slaughtering enemy PTs at some field where they aren't even beginning to kill hangars.