Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: JENG on March 29, 2000, 05:16:00 PM
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This evening I was the cause of the open channel turning ugly once more...
CavemanJ bounced me in my 109, we had a good fight. When I finaly turn the tables, he apparently ran for a homebase... but I killed him just before he got there.
When CavemanJ ran for the homeplate he called out that he was out of fuel, I did not read that cause in the middle of a fight I can only glance at the buffer once in a while. He became angry, I didn't know why (at that time) and lost my temper too.
CJ, at first I didn't believe you had called out 'low fuel'... but I watched the film and you are right. If I had known I would have disengaged.
That's not the issue tho... slanting on someone is... If I engage someone when low on fuel (remember the fight didn't last long so you where already low on fuel) then it's my responsibility, and if I get killed then... it's my fault.
We both lost our temper... it's just so easy on the internet... I don't think both you and me would do the same if we met face to face, at least I wouldn't stand for it.
I'm sorry I got so worked up over this... so my appologies to you Cave and all the others who watched it.
Seeya up there in the sky and may everybody kill everybody in a pleasant atmosphere.
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BEE(JENG)
=CO=III/JG2~Richthofen~
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/109bee.gif)
'Nemo Impune Lacessit'
[This message has been edited by JENG (edited 03-29-2000).]
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This isn't necessarily directed at caveman, don't know him anyways, but I never really understood why people call on the open channel that they are out of gas or ammo in the first place. Why should the other guy give a rip?
I have never in AH or WB's called on the open channel that I was outa anything during an engagemant, never considered it the other guys responsibility to "not shoot" me. Don't get me wrong, I have disengaged for this reason, but should the other guy expect that?
If you're caught without enough fuel/ammo, who's fault IS it? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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hblair,
<===< The ASSASSINS (http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/rowgue/index.html)>===>
(http://heathblair.tripod.com/Spitflame.JPG)
[This message has been edited by hblair (edited 03-29-2000).]
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ROTFL !
hblair your right (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
A good idea is to add a Fuel Icon over a enemy
Plane, so i know when to shoot and when not LOL
WHY we have a Fuel-indicator ?! tell me why (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Gh0stFT
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I suspect I'll be real sorry for stickin my toe in here...
Your opponet may ask for quarter. He may ask fer a million bucks, and the keys to the car and yer wife's attentions too... doesn't mean yah have to give it up... or even answer.
Had that been me, I would not have asked. When I thumb the starter and the merlin coughs, I'm entering a kill or be killed enviornment... and asking the bear to "hold up there; while I get my damn pants on; ok?" is not in the cards or even good cricket.
Last week I shot some poor dude who informed me a split second after I gunned him into debris that he was AFK. He seemed rather indignant. Since he was dead; I reminded him of THAT fact, and suggested that his ghost shut the hell up too. Then I squelched him and cut off the interplay that WOULD have resulted in one nasty textbox demonstration of an amazinhunk contest.
If yah did anything wrong here Bee; it was only in replying to the ghost of the person you killed... don't support the occult. Squelch 'em BEFORE it gets ugly. Nobody wants to be haunted. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) If the ghost gets no further reply beyond.. "yer dead. If I'm hearin yah now; then yer a ghost. I don't belive in ghosts, so you are squelched as of now." He'll have a heluva argument with his monitor... but not with you.
As a side note... those last 5 min of fuel are about the only time my poor P51 can actually TURN. And; if someone hollers to ME he's outta fuel; beer; ammo; elevator and altitude, then it just means I didn't finish the job proper like and he'd better get his bellybutton ditched or bailed or under friendly cover before I can get back there and finish him. Quarter; my ass! He's there; he shot at me and now he's a damn target unless he can get me first.
And lastly.. damn fine apology to the 'offended' party, even though he knows better. He was no doubt havin an awful day too. Hope yah both feel better... check yer arming switches; check yer six; and fly and fight till the damn dirt interferes. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Salute!
Hang
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FWIW,
I have to agree with hblair and hang.
delta
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Well, I don't EXPECT to be left alone just because I am out of fuel, but if I have had a very good fight with another pilot (where we shoot each other up good for instance) and I have to leave due to no fuel and then call out my situation, it sometimes happens that he will let me go.
I don't mention this always when it happens to me, but just when I believe there is an possibility that he may think I "earned" to get out alive. That is basically when the fight was a draw up to the point of my needed retreat.
In the same manner I will also let a guy get away if he calls out his situation and has "earned" it, like I described it above. (Man, aint I a nice guy? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
Oh to get back to the point, that is just my reason to call it out sometime, but I won't start squeaking about it when/if I get shot down anyway, if my opponent don't think I should deserve to live (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
That is unless they start accusing me of lying. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Ltn. Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
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I think we need a "timeout" function. Whenever you lose the advantage, you hit this button and the enemy can't shoot at you.
I've also noticed a trend amongst certain pilots (wow.. same guy mentioned in two threads) to piss and moan whenever they go down. A good idea for all is to get a squelch list and add this pilots name to it.
AKDejaVu
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awww how sweet some of you are, too bad nobady gives that respect to bombers. Today I was running like hell back to base after I had taken some bad damage. I had shot down 2 fighters and damaged a third. I had lost engine no 4, was leaking fuel in Right Main, Right Outer, and Aux, I lost tail guns, top turret, ball turret, port waist, and chin turret, pilot was wounded, had no rudder, and was missing an elevator. There where 2 cons chasing me, a P38 and a SPIT. The Spit broke off but the 38 stayed with me. I called out on open ch that I had no guns, and to please let me return to base. I got on reponse. The 38 closed on me, it was 1.8k away when elfy saved my ass. He came in and droped right on the 38's 6. A spray of shots and off came the 38s wing. I cheared for his good work. I did manage to safely land a F24 and complete my mission, so I was happy. But my main point was that nobody would give a buff a chance. I mean if you saw me in a damaged buff ,and I called out that I had no guns, would you let me go? That is my question.
Heheheheh
The Beefster- AH Full Time Buff Pilot
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So someone breaks off and calls 'low fuel'. What happened to his fuel? Oh yeah, he burned it all trying to kill you.
The next time someone turns the tables on me I'm gonna head for home and call 'low skill'. Maybe he'll let me live.
ra
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Take heart Beefcake, Being a bomber pilot at heart (but with my current conection I get discoed too often to spend time buffing. DSL next month though). I have a strict code for engagement of buffs. If the buff is obviously withdrawing, or has already dropped it's load (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I see no reason to risk the chance of a .50 cal ennema just to kill what ammounts to at that time a well armed 7 to 10 passenger airliner.
Now, don't get me wrong, I don't get upset at those who don't share my view, but it's just my policy. Just like I will not attack any plane that is clearly withdrawing from the fight.
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Greg 'wmutt' Cook
332nd Flying Mongrels
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'Nobody wants to be haunted. If the ghost gets no further reply beyond.. "yer dead. If I'm hearin yah now; then yer a ghost. I don't belive in ghosts, so you are squelched as of now." He'll have a heluva argument with his monitor... '
<falls out of chair>
ROFLMAO
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CitabriAirbatiC
"There Is No Spoon"
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Bee -
When I first read this I thought you must be trolling! You in no way owe anyone an apology for shooting them down.
Next we will have goon pilots yelling - "Don't shoot I am unarmed."
This is a joke.
Sour
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Sourkraut
JG-2 Richthofen (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2)
"Hey - someone has to be the target...."
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/saurkraut.gif)
[This message has been edited by sourkraut (edited 03-29-2000).]
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Bee. Maybe that is a protocol I have never heard of. Maybe if both of you are out of ammo.... The fun starts when your out of fuel. The FW handles real well when its totaly empty turns inside a niki..(or did once anyway.)Thats when wingmen and a good bluff can really help. I have never seen a fight stop when some asset ran out, either fuel, ammo, E or ideas...Nice try though cave... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew
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I've seen so many major arguments break out over on AW relaxed realism over the issue of calling out bingo fuel or ammo. But I wouldn't expect to find it happen here. You might let someone go when they run out of ammo or fuel if you respect them or they fought a good fight, but it is not to be expected. He who runs out of ammo or fuel deserves to be shot down.
Beyond that, IMHO it is in very poor form to announce you are bingo. You place your foe in the uncomfortable position of having to decide whether to let you go. Further, claiming to be bingo is nothing more than a cheap excuse for getting beaten. This goes for AFK, my cat jumped on the keyboard, my wife was talking to me, I had something in my eye, or I fell asleep. The only valid excuse is, "I am a dweeb".
Don't lower this game to dweebery, he who calls bingo should be shot.
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Hangtime-
You've outdone yourself!
I went through two pairs of depends reading your post! Salute!
Bee-
Screw cave! He's a jerk and a crybaby. Kill him without mercy, regret, or hesitation. That's an order.
Cave-
See above.
-Heckel
JG2
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First off Hangtime well spoken!
Hblair, we see eye to eye, Hmmm that seems to be happening a LOT lately (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Bee, you know my thoughts on this subject, cause I gave em to you when it happened.
All I can say is it takes a heck of a big man to apoligise when he things he's in the right & did nothing wrong.
Last, I've said it before, (killstealing post) & I'll say it again. If it's in the air, it's a threat, KILL IT! Cause if you don't it just MIGHT bite you or a team mate.
No quarter given, none asked for. I've been in high fights where both planes had no eng's & we contintued to spiral down, takeing pot shots at each other with the last of our ammo.
Unless scoreing is somehow changed to award points for hits only (not kills) there is NO incentive for letting someone ditch or RTB.
The only time I'd do it is if it's in MY best interests, ie I"M about to go bingo fuel, ammo.
Beefcake, there is one time when I'll give a bomber a free pass, & thats when I know hes empty & on his way home. If I let him live it takes that much longer for him to RTB, land, rearm, & roll again. If I kill him he's back up instantly. Common sense says let him go, it will keep him from doing damage for a longer period of time.
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Maj Ghosth
XO 332nd Flying Mongrels
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Sure is nice being tried, convicted, and executed before speaking. Means I can't make it any worse.
Bee and I had a real nice fight going. I had been following him for close to 10 minutes and was about to rtb when I got his icon and saw him start to turn. Quick glance at the fuel guage, I've got time to kill this 109 right quick and head home. So I engaged. We turned, looped, dove, and just about everything else for what seemed like 30 minutes but was probably only 3-5.
He was 2.5k infront of me and a little low, quick glance on the fuel guage and it's time to go home, the fight had lasted way too long (I figured I'd kill him or he'd get me in the first couple of turns). I broke off for home and called on the open channel "sorry 109, gotta rtb fuel" (dinnae remember the exact wording, but I know I started with "sorry 109"), and hoped he'd let me go after such a good fight.
At first it looked like he was going to. A minute or so later I look back and realize he's not and start hoping I can find a friendly or get field 22 before he gets to me. About 10 miles north of 22 he gets close enough and takes a few shots. A couple of turns and a missed snapshot later there's almost d2k between us and I'm pointed at 22 again, still hoping I to across a friendly or get to the acks.
Drop over a ridge, field in sight, and the tanks run dry (damn those turns a couple minutes ago). Look back and there's that damn 109 at 900yds, closing, and starting to shoot again. Try one last pull up to flip around and bleed speed and hope to ditch, but dinnae make it. That's war.
When I saw who had killed me it was just too much on top of a bad day and I let some of the frustrations out. I've broken off and let him go a couple of times for that same reason, and it downright pissed me off. Then I squelched channel 1 before I got really bad. Can't see it, won't reply to it. After several minutes unsquelch 1 (hate to miss things), see Bee saying I was just using no fuel as an excuse to try and avoid getting killed. Throw out a couple lines then squelch 1 again and leave it til I get discoed.
For the record, I usually dinnae bother with out of fuel calls unless it's been a very good fight, and then it's usually to let the other person know why I'm breaking off. There's a little hope that quarter is given, but I damn sure dinnae expect it. Been around long enough to know that the honor and romance of aerial combat are myths in the main arena (when's the last time you saw a bish 109 escort a knight B17 to safety after he shot it up).
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A few thoughts of mine regarding playing an online flight sim, for what its worth this is how I feel.
1) There are no timeouts in AH, expect none.
2) Never call "low fuel" or "low ammo", it is an invitation to get killed
3) Never get mad when you get killed, the other guy has every right, and I do mean every right to kill you. Thats why he pays his money every month, to fly and kill enemy planes.
4) I guarantee you will enjoy this game more, and any online game you play more if you develop some friendships with the other players. To do this, earn their respect. You do not need to be a great flyer, you just need to act in a friendly, honorable manner. Salute those you beat in combat, and even more important, salute those that beat you in a good fight.
I have in my time playing online sims (4+ years now) seen guys come and go. In most cases, when the player was a good guy and had earned the respect of his fellow players, he regretted leaving behind all the good friends he had made in the game more than leaving the game itself.
Play with honor, dont let your ego overwhelm your good sense. Expect no mercy, accept that you will die, it is part of the game.
You will enjoy the game more if you dont take it so serious.
Just my thoughts,
Dago
[This message has been edited by Dago (edited 03-29-2000).]
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Dude,
If I had 5 cents for everytime someone killed me while my engine was dead, I was outta fuel, the guns jammed or ran empty, half a wing was missing, etc, I'd never have to pay to fly =)
As for venting on channel 1, well we've all done it at one time or another. It's a matter of taste and education. I usually ignore it unless it's Vulcan and then we have a little slagging match. Gotta tone the conversation to the audience though and given I fly in the wee small hours, (US time), 10pm-1am New Zealand time the fellows that fly then sometimes join in on the fun and rip into both of us, (Waving to RAM from my hell-warping 109 just before I disco =) If it's the weekend then it gets toned down a lot because there's too many people who could be offended.
Anyways if it's got a red icon and in your sights, pull the trigger. Spotcha in the Air.
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I know this is a long time Rant, but I'd just apreciate poeple stop being "RUDE" , I know, you can get angry (I often do, as I am prolly the guy that get's shot down the most....). One thing that comes to my mind is something that Hblair Said in another thread----> Easy for you guys to insult someone when U're behind your Screen....
Well, I spent a Week-End with Bee in Belgium, I've Seen the Bloke face to face, and "You don't want to mess with him, trust me...."
About 1. 90M ...100 Kgs , shaved head. Basicaly when I first saw him I thought "sh*** Someone sent a Speznatz to Kill me..."
Now, if we could all go back up there, shoot each other & Stop whining & Cursing at each other.... "Hey getouta here, this is MY sandbox" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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Saw/Saintaw
=XO=III/JG2~Richthofen~
GMT T.O.D. SITE (http://www.wardogs.org/ah/)
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/dorasaint.gif)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
Don't shoot ! I am only an observer......
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 03-30-2000).]
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LOL Saw!
Theres an pic of the 249th sqn RAF (my old squad from WB´s) and that picture looks like an Hells Angels meeting (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
(http://www.rsaf.org/osf/images/osf_inga.gif)
http://www.rsaf.org/osf/ (http://www.rsaf.org/osf/)
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Actually I gotta laugh at all this (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But lets realize up front, that I never fight fair (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) And I never engage in a fight without an advantage (unless I have no choice).
But I can't even begin to count the number of times that I have suckered Spitfires and 109's to their doom, by letting them stay just close enough in a tail chase with my Pony to think they are going to get me.
Its a psychological thing. Since they are never being able to actually catch a Pony, let them think they have a chance and they won't give up.
And then 5 minutes later, about the time their engine sputters to a stop, they look down at their fuel gauge and go "oh crap".
Then I reverse and leisurely strafe them into oblivion as they glide to their doom. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Beefcake,
I applaud you on bringing your bird home. I'm sure your crew was grateful(the ones still alive, anyway). I've done a great deal of Buffing in Warbirds, and my favorite missions were the ones where I brought my crew home in a badly shot up Bomber.
That being said, don't expect any quarter from me after you've killed a whole bunch of little Rooks with your bomb load only minutes before. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
With all the varying opinions about chute shooting, vulching, and given quarter, it's ok to try to ask for quarter from someone, but don't bank on getting it.
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banana
308 (Polish) Squadron RAF "City of Cracow"
"On the whole, it is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them"
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I am agree with Hang. Sometime after good duel against good pilot I do not shot him down when he is out of fuel and ditching, but if next time he will -- I would not take it as offensive. I normally shot afk, typing, and ditching planes, and see nothing wrong in it. Fuel is the concern of the pilot, he shall look for it, and disengage earlier not to be in a situation when he shall ask mercy from the enemy.
Fariz
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I have to agree with the majority here, if ya try to kill a man, and ya run out of the nessecities to do it, kinda ch*ckensh*t to call BINGO.
Anyway this thread reminds me of a couple of files:
http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/images/reaper.ra (http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/images/reaper.ra)
http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/images/violence.ra (http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/images/violence.ra)
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-CyberPilots have bigger Joysticks-
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MILENKO Homepage (http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/milenko.html)
<===THE ASSASSINS===>Webpage (http://members.xoom.com/rowgue/assassins.html)
milnko@warbirds.org
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One calls over open channel "low fuel" or "bingo ammo", I'm lookin for that plane! To me that is an advantage. I need all I can get!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
If I had a good melee with a enemy and that enemy called "bingo ammo" or "no fuel", would I let them go? Depends on who it is.
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Swager
-XO- II/JG2~Richthofen~
"Damn.....I can't believe I missed that shot!!!"
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/swager.gif)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 03-30-2000).]
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Oh, indeed, this IS a serious problem.
Perhaps we could get HTC to implement an "ALT F" command that would change your icon from plane type to a flashing neon "NO FUEL".
I guess we could also ask for "ALT A" and get a flashing "NO AMMO" icon.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Running out of fuel or ammo is simply an SA issue. Part of staying alive is knowing when it's time to go home.
So, ask for mercy all you like, just don't be surprised or upset if you get lead instead!
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No Quarter Given
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I am prepared to die in my panzer as much as I'm prepared to kill in it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I'm sorry but its absurd to think the fights off because one dude didn't bring enough fuel. The pilot picked his loadout, and has to live with it. If someone calls out on grey channel "im outta fuel don't shoot", I will most definitely kill him if i can. It's the same as if i called out "don't shoot im lower than you, or dont shoot im outta guns!" I'd be laughed out of the arena.
That's my take!
Jarbo
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hehe the only channel i call out AMMO and BINGO Fuel is country channel so somebody can come and save my sorry butt (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
- i still think that Calling out "Out of ammo" on open is a classic (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) -> that's like "Don't shoot me because i'm out of ammo .. which i spent trying to kill you" LOL
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Bee;
Sorry...
I kind of egged you on, I did not realize it was really getting to you.
<S>
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
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When you just can't catch that runstang, call bingo fuel and watch him suddenly take an interest in you! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
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Mark VanZwoll
33rd Strike Group
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LOL... I kinda like that one Mark. Right On! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang