Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: XtrmeJ on May 28, 2004, 12:00:55 AM
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To somehow install a bigger fuel tank into a SUV vehicle? Seems I run out of gas faster than I can fill it up, thinking a bigger tank might save a few trips to the gas station, even if it is a bigger burn in the wallet.
I have a about a 12-16 gallon tank and get approx. 16 miles to the gallon.
Was just gonna carry some extra fuel containers in car but I carry alota stuff back there. It's a 2003 Nissan Xterra which is going to have a 5-7 Inch lift in a few months. Need it for the heavy offroad in Hawaii. Anyhow lemme know if its possible, thanks ahead of time.
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XtrmeJ, I've done some automotive fuel tank stuff. Used to own a modified 260Z with a rusty tank. Anyways, fuels tanks arent something I would try to mess with or construct new. What I would do if I were you is get some plastic fuel cells like what they use for making stock/sprint cars with. They have different sizes and you can rig up a transfer port or hose into the main fuel tank which you'll have to modify. Sort of like a reserve with a switch.
A quick search found this link. There are lots of fuel cell makers out there.
http://www.behrents.com/fuelcells.htm
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5-7 inch lift? Seems a bit much for a vehicle with IFS.
You have another rack on top? Something like a Yakima Loadwarrior? Plenty of room up there for gas cans.
Or... put on an aftermarket rear bumper like this (http://www.4x4rockshop.com/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=1967) and carry your cans in the back.
FWIW, I have a 2000 Xterra.
Oh... and ask your question at http://www.xterraownersclub.com . I'm certain that you'll get plenty of answers.
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Awesome this is exactly something I'm looking for. Do you mount the cells underneath the car somwhere? Theres a switch for it? heh to cool. If I bouth the cell straps and switch, would a local automotive shop know how to install it, or is it easy enough I could do it myself? It's at a decent price too.
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Why not take your car (an xterra is a car, not an SUV) to a fabrication shop and have them fabricate a larger fuel resevoir. It is simple, and should be relatively cheap. I built my extra large tank in my old blazer, and put two into last Humvee I owned.
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Well I think thats its unlikely that an average shop will put in place of the stock tank one of these plastic fuel cells. A modern fuel tank has fuel pump, return smog stuff, and fuel meter stuff inside, pressure relieve/return tubes, etc... Thats difficult to add to a plastic fuel cell. You would need an external fuel pump and it would have a few tubes running in and out. Better to fabricate strapps inside the SUV at the trunk above the stock fuel tank. Drill a hole into your floor and modify your stock fuel tank to accept the hose and seal it so fumes dont escape. If you really want to extend your fuel tank like that else I would just carry fuel cans. its so much simpler.
edit: basicaly what bodhi said except your using plastic reserve tanks.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Why not take your car (an xterra is a car, not an SUV)
This is probably news to Motor Trend. It was the SUV of the year in 2000. :p
Hell... it's probably news to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/2000SUVs.html) also.
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I really wouldnt know how to do all that. Really dont think a mechanic or something would know how? bummer hehe. Had my heart set on that 16 gallon fuel cell with neat lil switch.
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Originally posted by Sandman
This is probably news to Motor Trend. It was the SUV of the year in 2000. :p
Hell... it's probably news to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/2000SUVs.html) also.
its a damn car...
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That's convincing. What is your criteria for an SUV?
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many COULD do it, but you're gonna have a hell of a time finding someone who would.
look how much ford was out with the pinto's fuel tank problems. no sane mechanic is going to set himself up for that kind of a liability for the couple hundred bucks he'd make installing it.
plus on the newer (and smaller) SUV's you are really lacking for anywhere to put it other than in the vehicle, on top, or on the bumper. so if they guy installs one inside and you spill fuel while filling and burn your family alive, he loses everything he owns.
I've added extra tanks on older trucks with no problem. on my 71 ford it came with a 25 gal under, and a 17 behind the seat.
I made room for another 25 beside the existing by converting my exhaust to stacks, then put the new tank in the frame opposite the existing and connected them with an upper and lower hose. but since it was my own truck and I knew my own work, there was no risk.
your best, and easiest bet is to have a rack made that holds 4 or 5 jerry-cans(I made one for a friend a few years back. unfortunately the drawings were lost in a HD format or I'd send them too you) . the best way to go with this is if you have a tow package, remove the hitch and have the rack mount by sliding into the receiver. that way you can have your gas when off-road, but not have the rack in your way in town.
you can also easily adapt a electric fuel pump with a hose on either end, and a cig-lighter adapter so you can plug it into the dash for power, to speed up the refilling process.
you also should build a locking system for the cans (a bar that slides through the handles works well), and a small locking toolbox into the rack, to store the pump and hose in. that way you won't have to smell the gas after using the pump.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
your best, and easiest bet is to have a rack made that holds 4 or 5 jerry-cans(I made one for a friend a few years back. unfortunately the drawings were lost in a HD format or I'd send them too you) . the best way to go with this is if you have a tow package, remove the hitch and have the rack mount by sliding into the receiver. that way you can have your gas when off-road, but not have the rack in your way in town.
I have something like that, but it's really not appropriate off road. It severely restricts your departure angle.
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you could come off the receiver and up a few feet. project a line back and up at an angle from the bottom of the rear tires, to the under-side of the bumper. if you keep your rack above that line it shouldn't effect any clearance.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
its a damn car...
IIRC it's based off the pathfinder or frontier chassis. Truck chassis + high wagon body = SUV. You want to talk about car SUV's, look at the likes of the ford Escape and all those foreign "suv's."
Nissan is one of the few foreign companies that's done SUV's right.
And XJ... Jerry cans!!!
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I know nothing about installing this sort of thing so its pretty much out of the question. I could learn I guess hehe. Result being a flaming disaster that appears on the 7 oclock news. Thats a bonus being on TV I guess, but would like to steer clear of such a incident.
Dammit hehe. The whole fuel cell and switch thing sounded so convieniant and simple. Carrying canasters of fuel in the "trunk/back area" seems lame hehe. Plus that area fills up when I'm on long offroad trips ect. The 16 gallon tank I could put right under the floor mat of the "trunk/back area" and take out the hub cap kit, and place that elsewhere. It would be different placing 3-4 other canasters, prob wouldnt fit. Dammit, is there another way?
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Have a 2003 Nissan Xterra also with the supercharged V6.
It ate gas for a while and still does at times but what helps is turning off O/D until going over 50mph (highway). Switch is on the Gear selection stick for automatics. (btw the X ain't mine (mom's) I have 1999 Ranger XLT and that SOB eats gas worse than our Xterra)
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Yah knew about the O/D. Helps a bit but not much. Mostly doing 4x4 stuff and gas gets sucked down much quicker. Highways its alright, but you can see the gas go when on rough terrain.
Really your XLT? Small pickup, cant imagine it'd be worse than the Xterra, thats pretty bad hehe. Maybe that Tornado attachement you see advertised on TV alot. Hook that up to the engine, supposedl saves gas and increases horsepower, thats a thought hehe.
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"It's a 2003 Nissan Xterra which is going to have a 5-7 Inch lift in a few months. Need it for the heavy offroad in Hawaii"
Heavy off road work? Shoudl of bought a Jeep
Nissan Xterra with a 5 to 7 inch lift and your worried about trips to the gas station living in Hawaii? You have to be kidding me?
Firstly, I can't imagine a Nissan Xterra with such a massive lift, if you lift and add bigger tyres your gas miliage is going to plumit and you will be making even more trips to the gas station.
Secondly, Modifying a gas tank is the last thing I'd try on a vehicle it's designed to specs for a reason. Mounting a gas tank on the rear bumper or roof is also risky and some countries illegal incase of accident. Same with keeping gas inside at the back.
Thirdly, Only time I've ever wished for more gas in a 4x4 is in Australia where the gas stops are few and far between in the outback. I can't imagine Hawaii being a 1000 mile drive between stops.
Good Luck.
...-Gixer
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Yah it is going to be a pretty big lift. Maybe even just 4.. It seems to scrape quite a bit on some roads. You'r right, it is short drives everywhere. But considering I drive to the beach almost everyday on a tank which gets 16 mpg, it adds up. Beach is 40 miles away, its a 12 gallon tank. I refill every 4 days or so.
Yes Gixer I am in fact kidding you, this is all one of my charades, you've been trapped ;). The reason I want the extra gas is so I'll have it incase im on a long trip, and I know I have gas to toy with. May be a silly thing to you, but it's logical with my life style.
All I want is some extra storage containers for fuel that with any luck will be just like a aux fuel or 2nd tak. Where I flip a switch and voila. The lift is needed for terrain here. 1/30 vehicles on the road are lifted, see at least 15 every day, all of which people do because its a fun activity, and a easy solution to get to the nice and secluded places here. But you know all about Hawaii, so I need not continue;)
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XJ,
I'm sure the terrain in Hawaii isn't any worse for off roading then here in NZ. I just finished a OME 2 inch lift on my Jeep and with 31inch mud tyres, airlockers, and some armour underneath find more then enough for bush trails here. Which are usually steep,muddy,rutted,narrow,rocky and unforgiving. We have some guys in our club with 3-4 inch lifts and 33" tyres but I've yet to get stuck where they don't.
Over 2 inches your really starting to alter the vehicles centre of gravity and design spec. More then likely require regearing and other changes like a transcase drop,gearbox packing, Panhard rod extensions what ever is required. Otherwise you'll experience varying degrees of vibration.
Of course sure you've already looked into all of this. :)
Which makes of lift kit's have you looked into? Can highly recommend Old Man Emu from Australia not sure what they do for your wagon but for Jeeps it's the best available. Improves the handling off and on road. Totally different vehicle now from stock.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by XtrmeJ
I have a about a 12-16 gallon tank and get approx. 16 miles to the gallon.
:eek:
Buy a diesel next time. :lol
<-- diesel, 55 litre tank, 500 miles between fill-ups. :aok
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diesels aren't very good off-road. great for mileage and power on the hwy, but poor acceleration & not much 'off the line' power that you need for off-road.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
but poor acceleration
diesel? or turbo diesel? That turbo makes a hell of a difference to a diesel. Mine has top speed of 134mph, 0-60 in 8.8 secs. I bet that's better than XJ's truck.
A lot of people hone in on the max power figure and forget all about the perhaps more relevant max torque figure - my 2.8iV6 had 204bhp @ 6200rpm, the 1.9TDi has only 150bhp @ 4000rpm. BUT... Max torque in the V6 was 199ft.lb. @ 3200rpm; Max torque in the 1.9TDi is 236ft.lb. at 1900rpm.
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Use droptanks !
(http://user.tninet.se/~qbc513r/arm22.jpg)
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the turbo does make a huge difference, my volvo (4cl w turbo) accelerates much faster than many v-8's I've owned.
I still can't help but think if diesels had a comparable power/weight ratio, and better milage (=longer endurance) why don't they put them in race cars?
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
the turbo does make a huge difference, my volvo (4cl w turbo) accelerates much faster than many v-8's I've owned.
I still can't help but think if diesels had a comparable power/weight ratio, and better milage (=longer endurance) why don't they put them in race cars?
Yes, and I sometimes wondered why they couldn't make a diesel powered light aircraft. The low revs would be suited to normal operating prop speeds without gearing being needed. The answer is of course weight. Owing to the heat that a diesel engine generates, it has to be liquid cooled. And to withstand the cylinder pressure (comp ratio in mine is 18½ to 1) the cylinder block has to be much sturdier/heavier.
A diesel car engine will last what - 200,000 miles at least. But a racing car engine is designed to last for the duration of the race! If it lasts longer than that, the designers are looking for what extra metal (and extra weight) they put in the engine that wasn't needed.
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yep, and in off-roading weight is a concern. I not an exert at 4wd's, I've owned a couple but don't do any more than the most basic work on them. and the only mods I make are custom bumpers, hitch's, and winch-mounts that I make.
but I don't know of anyone who uses a diesel for off-roading. I don't think jeep or most of the other 4x4 makers even offer diesels.
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those stupid xterra things only get 16 mpg? What is the point of that?
lazs
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Wait a sec... This guy lives in Hawaii... isn't that a tiny little island? How far from a gas station CAN you get? A mile? Maybe two?
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Originally posted by XtrmeJ
To somehow install a bigger fuel tank into a SUV vehicle? Seems I run out of gas faster than I can fill it up, thinking a bigger tank might save a few trips to the gas station, even if it is a bigger burn in the wallet.
I have a about a 12-16 gallon tank and get approx. 16 miles to the gallon.
Was just gonna carry some extra fuel containers in car but I carry alota stuff back there. It's a 2003 Nissan Xterra which is going to have a 5-7 Inch lift in a few months. Need it for the heavy offroad in Hawaii. Anyhow lemme know if its possible, thanks ahead of time.
Our truck gets 16mpg, but ours holds 20-25 gallons...
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
diesels aren't very good off-road. great for mileage and power on the hwy, but poor acceleration & not much 'off the line' power that you need for off-road.
Depends on what you're doing with it. My dad has a '78 Toyota Landcruiser with a diesel in it. It will go anywhere, gets great milage and you can run the a/c in it all day long. It's not the fastest thing, but it's low-end torque and 31 inch tires means it will rock crawl with the best of them. Especially in 4 low.
And XTerra's are SUV's. As has been mentioned above, they are one of the few SUV's still built on truck frames. Most SUV's are unibodies or built on car frames so they "ride better" :rolleyes
I've got a bone-stock 2002 with the v6, limited slip rear end and a stick shift. I've been through some pretty hairy stuff in the Arizona desert and haven't needed anything more yet.
But, since I sold my CJ 5 w/ the 340hp V8 in it, I don't bomb through the desert like I used to :D
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Jeep is supposed to be bringing out a diesel Liberty for 2005.
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Originally posted by Dune
Jeep is supposed to be bringing out a diesel Liberty for 2005.
Hope they never get rid of the straight 6 4.0 for the "real" Jeep but unfortunetly rumours are that they are making big changes for the 05 model. 3.8 V6 and 6 speed. :-(
If that's so no matter what it costs I might buy a new 04 just so I can have the last of the straight 6's. Personally I think it's the best engine in the world for a 4x4 but of course im biased as hell. There only one, and everything else is a copy. :-)
...-Gixer
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Heavy, stinky, smoky, underpowered, why would anybody want a diesel?
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Heavy, stinky, smoky, underpowered, why would anybody want a diesel?
Hey Funked, the 1970s called, they want their diesel stereotypes back.
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Originally posted by lazs2
those stupid xterra things only get 16 mpg? What is the point of that?
lazs
I've gotten as high as 19. More often then not, I get 18 MPG after each fill up.
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Originally posted by Gixer
XJ,
I'm sure the terrain in Hawaii isn't any worse for off roading then here in NZ. I just finished a OME 2 inch lift on my Jeep and with 31inch mud tyres, airlockers, and some armour underneath find more then enough for bush trails here. Which are usually steep,muddy,rutted,narrow,rocky and unforgiving. We have some guys in our club with 3-4 inch lifts and 33" tyres but I've yet to get stuck where they don't.
Over 2 inches your really starting to alter the vehicles centre of gravity and design spec. More then likely require regearing and other changes like a transcase drop,gearbox packing, Panhard rod extensions what ever is required. Otherwise you'll experience varying degrees of vibration.
Of course sure you've already looked into all of this. :)
Which makes of lift kit's have you looked into? Can highly recommend Old Man Emu from Australia not sure what they do for your wagon but for Jeeps it's the best available. Improves the handling off and on road. Totally different vehicle now from stock.
...-Gixer
Yah I'm thinking 3-4 max lift. Only a few companies make lifts for Xterras so its hard to tell who has the best one, as they are fairly new. Maybe I should just keep spair containers of gas. The switch thing just sounded so cool hehe. Will look into it more. Im lookin for 32-35 tire wise. I about a 1/1/2 inch lift at one point for a small show. Drove it with huge tires. Friend did all the work. It was massive, gears did have to be tweaked and other things. To drive it to the show and back soaked up a lil more than half the tank with full gas. We took it off weeks later as it was for show anyway. I just want something that wont scrape the rugged paths down to the beaches, and an extra tank of gas. Or a bright idea to install another neat tank.
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This one is very popular... 3" Lift from Calmini:
http://www.purenissan.com/3_lift.htm
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Ya ive looked at the one as well. It is the most popular right now IMO, and most companies dont make over 3 inch body/suspension lifts. If I did get a 3 inch body and 3 inch suspension lift thatd be nice. I'd wrather have 4 tho:D
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
yep, and in off-roading weight is a concern. I not an exert at 4wd's, I've owned a couple but don't do any more than the most basic work on them. and the only mods I make are custom bumpers, hitch's, and winch-mounts that I make.
but I don't know of anyone who uses a diesel for off-roading. I don't think jeep or most of the other 4x4 makers even offer diesels.
Not in this country anyway. There's a diesel option for Xterras sold in Brazil.
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Diesel powered Xterra would be reasonably underpowered IMO.
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Guess I am just going to carry a few more gas containers in my car until a solution is found. Went out and got 2 - 5 gallon ones today. Temporary fix:p
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I intend to do the same.
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hey XT - nice flying with you just now at the rook CVs.
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Originally posted by XtrmeJ
Ya ive looked at the one as well. It is the most popular right now IMO, and most companies dont make over 3 inch body/suspension lifts. If I did get a 3 inch body and 3 inch suspension lift thatd be nice. I'd wrather have 4 tho:D
3inch body and 3 inch suspension lift? I'd never go more then 1inch body at maximum anything else just looks ugly as it leaves to much of a gap between the body frame and chassis. Body lifts don't do anything to increase your flex just increase space for bigger tyres but they look terrible.
Maximum I'd ever put on my jeep would be 33inch tyres and 3 to 3.5 inch suspension lift possibly with a 1 inch body lift.
Sounds as if your doing it more for looks then serious offroad ability. Again massive lifts are going to turn it into a terrible road vehicle, gas miliage will take a dive,gearing need adjusting and handling will be terrible.
Does the Xterra have low ratio?
If it was my wagon most I'd look at is a quality 2inch suspension lift and possibly fit 31inch A/T's BFG do a nice A/T tyre. Though depending on your backspacing on the stock wheels you might then need to get new wheels as well to fit 31's or use spacers but those are illegal in allot of places.
Speaking of bigger tyres where are you planning to keep the full size spare?
...-Gixer
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Speaking of bigger tyres where are you planning to keep the full size spare?
a spare-rack built into a front brush bumper works nice, on all my trucks.