Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: mipoikel on May 29, 2004, 06:22:39 AM
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I've heard rumours about new Battle of britain style movie. Does anyone have any better information about this? Is it true anyway?
Ive tried to "google" this but no results.:(
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You mean the film with Tom Cruise?
I think it's to be called "The Few".
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Holywood gonna fk with history again and re-write it to suit themselves.The dead will turn in their graves.:mad:
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Originally posted by LLv34_Snefens
You mean the film with Tom Cruise?
I think it's to be called "The Few".
Thanks, I think ithat is it...
Btw want to see P40 saves the world! :D
http://www.skycaptain.com/ (http://www.skycaptain.com/)
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Originally posted by GScholz
The controversy echoes the outrage expressed by some Brits who felt that “Saving Private Ryan” downplayed their role in D-Day.
SPR showed the brits hitting the beach. Just because they were the last to leave the beach is not the film's fault.
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Tom Cruise won't be portrayed as winning the Battle of Britian as everyone knows Ben Affleck already won it, when he stopped off in London on his way to Tokyo.
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Originally posted by rpm371
SPR showed the brits hitting the beach. Just because they were the last to leave the beach is not the film's fault.
Rpm... not to be an arse, but the Americans on Omaha held that distinction.
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Bet Cruise flys a Spitfire as well :mad:
off to Il:FB and my Polish Hurri AI Buddies.
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As usual it seems the newspapers are jumping the gun. Hollywood often gets it wrong. But we should wait and give film the the benefit of the doubt. It just can't be as bad as the BoB section of Pearl Harbour. I somehow doubt it will attempt to give the impression that Americans won the battle single handed. But then the English didn't win it single handed either. There were Scots, Welsh, Irish, Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, Poles, Czechs, French etc etc.
I have no time with the criticism that SPR downplayed the British role in D-day. SPR was about Omaha beach and the aftermath. That was in the American sector. Just exactly how do you work in the British army or indeed the Canadians into that scenario?
Frankly it's up to the British movie industry to make their version of events. IMHO it's way past time for a modern British film set in that period. 'A bridge too far' was the last I remember with a strong role for the British.
I've no doubt it would be superb and even fair to the Americans. But they are too busy making romantic comedies and football hooligan movies.
I do think Tom Cruise is a bit old to be a Battle of Britain pilot though.
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Originally posted by cpxxx
I do think Tom Cruise is a bit old to be a Battle of Britain pilot though.
Well he's only 5'-1" so he can always portray a growing boy.
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William "Bill" M. Fiske III
Royal Air Force fighter pilot (Hurricane Mk. I of No. 601 Sqn. "County of London") and first American to join the RAF. He had been an Olympic bobsled winner in 1928 and 1932 and flew with No. 601 Squadron at Tangmere. Fiske was killed on August 16, 1940, while attempting to make a belly landing at Tangmere after his plane was attacked by Stukas. He is the only American buried at St. Paul's Cathedral in London and is honored by a plaque that says "An American citizen who died that England might live."
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Wow shot down by Stukas while in a Hurri. That is like Andre the Giant in his prime wrestling midgets and getting his bellybutton kicked.
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Originally posted by GScholz
"Attacked by Stukas" *lol* I think they meant Messerschmitts.
Maybe he was killed while attacking Stukas.
I look forward to seeing it. I'll be the judge of wether it is good or bad, I dont care who you are, Be it a Critic or a WW2 Veteran, If you havnt seen it you can't judge it until you have yourself.
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Originally posted by GScholz
"Attacked by Stukas" *lol* I think they meant Messerschmitts.
I found this:
"The squadron was scrambled at 1225 hrs, and we patrolled for a time. Then we were vectored to Bambridge at 20,000 FT, then back to base. We saw large numbers of Ju 87s Stukas approaching the aerodrome, but the controller told us to stay at 20,000 FT because there were also fighters with the Stukas, which were at 12,000 FT. We could see no fighters, however, and finally when the Ju 87s started their dives we followed, but wer were too late to do anything about it. I think the fighters were a myth, for we never saw them, and neither did anyone from the other squadron (No. 43 sqn)."
"We all chased the Ju 87s, which made off very low over Bognor and out to sea. When we had used our ammunition we returned to base and landed. I think everyone was back okay except Fiske, who then came in and landed wheels up. His aircraft was on fire, but not burning fiercely. I axied my aircraft across to his and found two ambulance men who had lifed Fiske out the cockpit and laid him on the grass. Theaircraft was still smoldering rather than burning. The ambulance men did not know to undo the parachute harness, so I showed them, and then told them to put some Larafix (which in those days was the recommended treatment for burns.) on one of his hands and on his feet and ankles, which had been burned. Hw as taken off to hospital, and that evening was sitting up and, I gather, pretty cheerful, but the next morning he died of surgical shock."
"I do not know whether Billy successfully attacked any of the Ju 87s, but presumably his aircraft was hit by return from one of them. When I saw him he was not fully conscious, or making a lot of sense, and I certainly didn't ask him what happened. I don't suppose anyone else did later."
- - Air Classics / Vol. 40 / Number 1
Rafe
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It was inappropriate to make a joke of his death. No matter what you opinion of the aircraft you might have flown in a game, he was there for real and none of us were.
to a fallen soldier.
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Originally posted by Habu
Wow shot down by Stukas while in a Hurri. That is like Andre the Giant in his prime wrestling midgets and getting his bellybutton kicked.
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I was commenting on the fact that the Stukas that were send over to England got decimated by the RAF.
For a Hawker Hurricane pilot to get shot down by them was a victory for the underdog.
If you want to salute some brave pilots salute the Stuka pilots who were told to fly far far from base, over water, and bomb well defended targets without proper air cover (not that that would have helped much).
Better yet salute the poor gunner in the back with a pea shooter looking at the business end of two very well armed foes.
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Habu,
I'm not very supportive at all of nazis or their goal for the world as well as starting the conflict in Europe. If you are, then that is your problem, not mine. I'm spending time this memorial weekend remembering those, including in my family, that had to pay a price for the nazi actions.
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Well whatever they do in the flick will be hard pressed to top the 1969 film "BOB", with Christopher Plummer and Michael York and a host of others. The best thing of the flick was that it used Spanish AF HE-111 and 109's but versions equipped with merlin engines and real spits and hurris! Great air combat footage and it is available on VHS but not sure about DVD.
All the Best...
Jay
AWDoc1
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Originally posted by doc1kelley
Well whatever they do in the flick will be hard pressed to top the 1969 film "BOB", with Christopher Plummer and Michael York and a host of others. The best thing of the flick was that it used Spanish AF HE-111 and 109's but versions equipped with merlin engines and real spits and hurris! Great air combat footage and it is available on VHS but not sure about DVD.
All the Best...
Jay
AWDoc1
It is out on DVD, on TV right now actually. TCM.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Habu,
I'm not very supportive at all of Nazis or their goal for the world as well as starting the conflict in Europe. If you are, then that is your problem, not mine. I'm spending time this memorial weekend remembering those, including in my family, that had to pay a price for the Nazi actions.
The conditions that lead to WW2 started from the treaties that ended WW1. If you try to extract vengence and inflict suffering on a nation that lost a war all you are doing is fostering the condtions to start the next one.
The Nazi leadership were evil. The men in the 20's serving in the Luftwaffe and Army were not. They did not run the death camps nor did they formulate the policy. There were just serving their country.
I had a relative who died in a bomber in the war. He was a tail gunner in a Halifax. I have many friends who lost loved ones in the war.
If you cannot separate your hate for the Nazis from compassion for the poor young men who died in droves on both sides of the war because they were just cannon fodder for the politicians then that is your problem not mine.
Extending your ignorant comments to the present, I am sure right now you probably hate all the Russian and eastern European people who served in the armies of those countries during the cold war. Russia was behind many atrocities under Lenin and Stalin and right up into the early eighties Do you hate all the Russians around this game and the US today?
Here is a free tip. Don't try to come off all sanctimonious due to your ignorance. If you have nothing constructive to say keep your thoughts to yourself.
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Originally posted by Habu
The conditions that lead to WW2 started from the treaties that ended WW1. If you try to extract vengence and inflict suffering on a nation that lost a war all you are doing is fostering the condtions to start the next one.
The Nazi leadership were evil. The men in the 20's serving in the Luftwaffe and Army were not. They did not run the death camps nor did they formulate the policy. There were just serving their country.
I had a relative who died in a bomber in the war. He was a tail gunner in a Halifax. I have many friends who lost loved ones in the war.
If you cannot separate your hate for the Nazis from compassion for the poor young men who died in droves on both sides of the war because they were just cannon fodder for the politicians then that is your problem not mine.
Extending your ignorant comments to the present, I am sure right now you probably hate all the Russian and eastern European people who served in the armies of those countries during the cold war. Russia was behind many atrocities under Lenin and Stalin and right up into the early eighties Do you hate all the Russians around this game and the US today?
Here is a free tip. Don't try to come off all sanctimonious due to your ignorance. If you have nothing constructive to say keep your thoughts to yourself.
Can we at least piss in their wheaties, just a little?:) why do u guys take all this so seriously??
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About this:
"SPR showed the brits hitting the beach. Just because they were the last to leave the beach is not the film's fault."
The Brits landed on 3 beaches, the Americans on 2.
Basically Omaha was a mess-up.
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BTW habu, it was the french and the Brits who stood firm on the treaty at the end of WW2, Wilson tried to mitigate it but was voted down. So keep your ignorance to yourself.
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Originally posted by doc1kelley
Well whatever they do in the flick will be hard pressed to top the 1969 film "BOB", with Christopher Plummer and Michael York and a host of others. The best thing of the flick was that it used Spanish AF HE-111 and 109's but versions equipped with merlin engines and real spits and hurris! Great air combat footage and it is available on VHS but not sure about DVD.
All the Best...
Jay
AWDoc1
Hey Doc, where'd you get that avatar? Looks very familiar!
Daniel
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I thought Omaha was a purely US operation - and it was that beach that Saving Private Ryan was recreating.
I'm curious...were there Brits on Omaha beach too?
Ravs
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Originally posted by Maverick
BTW habu, it was the french and the Brits who stood firm on the treaty at the end of WW2, Wilson tried to mitigate it but was voted down. So keep your ignorance to yourself.
I know how and why the treaty of Versailles was drafted. The phrase used at the time was squeeze them till their pips squeak. Which lead to the creation of the word pipsqueak, which is a small weak man. Kind of like the midgets I made light of in my original post.
There is no excuse for what the Nazi's did but their support and rise to power was largely due to the harsh conditions imposed on Germany by France and England.
I don't know where you deduced from my previous comments that my post was anti Wilson or US. You seem to be jumping to conclusions, that or arguing with a voice in your head instead of with anything I have been posting.
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Originally posted by ravells
I thought Omaha was a purely US operation - and it was that beach that Saving Private Ryan was recreating.
I'm curious...were there Brits on Omaha beach too?
Ravs
I think the commonwealth forces landed at sword, Juno and gold. but I could be mistaken.
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Originally posted by Angus
The Brits landed on 3 beaches, the Americans on 2.
Basically Omaha was a mess-up.
That's incorrect. The British landed on two beaches (Sword and Gold), Americans landed on two beaches (Omaha and Utah) and Canadians landed on one beach (Juno).
You can find the order of battle here.
http://www.fact-index.com/b/ba/battle_of_normandy.html
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You might be interested to know that Hollywood is making a flick for Feb of '05 called Ghost Soldiers. It's about an Army Ranger detachment sent in to rescue 500 POW's from a Japanese POW camp. It could be as hokey as those dumb Missing in Action flicks, or it might be a great film. That idiot Benjamin Bratt has a big role, though, so I don't expect a big hit. IMDB has more info on it.
EDIT: Just checked IMDB's entry for The Few. Cruise will by driving a Hurricane, not a Zitfire. And if you think the debate gets warm here about it, it's blazing on the IMDB boards!
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There is no excuse for what the Nazi's did but their support and rise to power was largely due to the harsh conditions imposed on Germany by France and England.
If you look at German political patterns of the era, the rise of Nazism was largely linked to the start of the worldwide depression (economic fears) and fears of Communism. Before the depression, but well after Versailles, no real broad Nazi support. As the Depression starts, things swing notably towards the Nazis with the added benefit of nazi "order” for a people at the time unaccustomed to the messiness of democracy. Versailles, the Jews, [some would also say the Communist threat] were supporting issues, and ones that often appealed only to select demographics. But, the Nazi propaganda machine was brilliant at being all things to all people and adapting the specific message accordingly.
Ironically, many of the beneficial economic infrastructure programs Hitler took credit for were already started by the Social Democrats.
Charon
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Yes you are right but I have to think the treaty made it worse in Germany than if a more enlightened treaty had been imposed.
The effects of the worldwide depression were much worse in Germany than the would have been without the war reparations and restrictions on their economy.
The rise of the communists in eastern Europe was a big factor as well but only in that the Germans could not rearm to defend themselves.
The years following the war were very bad in Germany but they were licking their wounds and had pretty much lost the best part of a male generation in the war. No one wanted to support a party that would maybe provoke a new war. But a new generation came along and look what happened. They did not remember the horrors of the first war but they lived though the aftermath of the treaty and the economic havoc of the depression as well.
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any of you opened an history book and looked at the 1870 war ?
Un traité de paix humiliant la France
Le traité de paix préliminaire franco-allemand, signé à Versailles le 26 février, fut confirmé par le traité de Francfort (10 mai 1871). La France dut céder les trois départements de l'Alsace-Moselle (qui constituèrent jusqu'en 1919 la province allemande d'Alsace-Lorraine) et payer une indemnité de guerre de 2 000 millions de francs. Les troupes allemandes occupèrent une partie de la France jusqu'à ce que le total des indemnité fut versé en septembre 1873.
Le traité de Francfort, est signé le 10 mai 1871 et met fin à la guerre franco-allemande de 1870-1871.
Ce traité conclut des négociations entamées par Adolphe Thiers le 26 février 1871 avec le chancelier Otto von Bismarck. Après les défaites de Sedan et de Metz, Paris est assiégé.
Bismarck propose des conditions de paix impliquant la cession à l'Allemagne de l'Alsace et d'une partie des départements lorrains et un indemnité de guerre de 6 milliards de francs. Les négociations permettent à Thiers de réduire l'indemnité à 5 milliards et de conserver Belfort contre l'entrée de l'armée allemande à Paris, entrée effectuée le 1er mars, le jour où l'Assemblée nationale ratifie les principes de la paix.
Ce traité va polariser la politique française pour les quarante années qui suivront sur les relations entre la France et l'Allemagne. En effet, si les 5 milliards furent rapidement réunis, la reconquête de l'Alsace-Lorraine, des « provinces perdues », va devenir une obsession qui aboutira au déclenchement de la première guerre mondiale.
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I can agree with your points, Habu, but I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree with the level of direct influence Versailles played.
The whole post war world economy was a house of cards in Europe, with German reparations helping France and England pay war debt to the US, and the US investing in Germany. You remove US investment and house collapses and everybody suffers (and statistically with some general degree of parity - the figures for unemployment and production loss are quite similar for the US and Germany). Then there was the adherence to the Gold Standard and its impact during this period on Germany, Great Britain, France and the United States. This may be the key factor in the depth and severity of the depression for any particular nation.
There was a lot of hardship and fear during this period. Facsism (and to some extent Communism) saw growing support in many countries including the US and Britain. However, I would blame a lack of experience with democracy and a desire for a new "Kaiser" with the rise of Nazism, IMO, my $0.2 etc.
Charon
Wow, Nash Hijack award in the works here :)
Tom Cruise really Suxxor. So is Vin Diesel. Saw a bunch of trailers this weekend for upcomiong films and several looked great until it got to the leading man.