Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Rolex on May 29, 2004, 08:01:59 AM

Title: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: Rolex on May 29, 2004, 08:01:59 AM
I have always wondered if the AH Lanc III has 2 x .303's or 2 x .50's in the rear turret. They don't seem like .50's when I'm firing them. ( :) ) and I don't see .50's listed on the webpage chart.

I have no information other than pretty extensive internet searches and it all points to Lancaster III's having 4 x .303's with 2500 rounds for each gun. I did find some information that a few later versions were modified with 2 x 50's mounted in dorsal position, but they were removed after a short trial. I've not been able to find any Mk III version with 2 of anything in the rear turret.
Title: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: frank3 on May 29, 2004, 08:24:47 AM
4 x .303 with 2500 rpg sounds abit....much...

But our Avro build bomber has indeed got 2 x .50 machine guns in it's rear turret.

A long time we had still got 2 x .303's in the rear, but after some complaining and proofing there should be at least 4 x .303's or 2 x .50's HiTech changed it to 2 x .50's.

Oh, and the machine gun indication in the hangar is never right, for many aircraft.
Title: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: Pyro on May 29, 2004, 12:37:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by frank3
A long time we had still got 2 x .303's in the rear, but after some complaining and proofing there should be at least 4 x .303's or 2 x .50's HiTech changed it to 2 x .50's.


That's incorrect.  The Lanc in AH has always had dual .50s in the tail.  There were arguments that the quad .30s should have been used instead, but that's a separate issue.
Title: Re: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: Replicant on May 29, 2004, 01:42:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
I have always wondered if the AH Lanc III has 2 x .303's or 2 x .50's in the rear turret. They don't seem like .50's when I'm firing them. ( :) ) and I don't see .50's listed on the webpage chart.

I have no information other than pretty extensive internet searches and it all points to Lancaster III's having 4 x .303's with 2500 rounds for each gun. I did find some information that a few later versions were modified with 2 x 50's mounted in dorsal position, but they were removed after a short trial. I've not been able to find any Mk III version with 2 of anything in the rear turret.


Difference between Lancaster I and Lancaster III is Parkard Merlins instead of Rolls Royce Merlins.

Some Bomber Groups within Bomber Command experimented with a 2 x .50 cal rear turret (which is featured in AH).  Some Lancasters (mostly Canadian) had an Upper 2 x .50 cal turret (but 4 x .303s in rear).  1 Group Bomber Command still had some Lancasters with the belly 2 x .303s still but they were removed on the majority of other Lancasters.
Title: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: frank3 on May 29, 2004, 01:56:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pyro
That's incorrect.  The Lanc in AH has always had dual .50s in the tail.  There were arguments that the quad .30s should have been used instead, but that's a separate issue.


That's odd, I remember having 2 .303's in the rear a long time ago.

...ofcourse that's been a long time ago :)
Title: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: Replicant on May 29, 2004, 02:04:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by frank3
That's odd, I remember having 2 .303's in the rear a long time ago.

...ofcourse that's been a long time ago :)


Nope, never had .303s in the tail.  I remember the confusion when the Lanc first came into AH because the rear .50 cal turrets were rare and some didn't know that they had them.
Title: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: Rolex on May 29, 2004, 03:58:56 PM
Thanks for the info, Pyro.
Title: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: WilldCrd on May 29, 2004, 05:40:32 PM
Pyro how come the rear guns have the least amount of ammo? 90% of attacks come from the rear I would think they would have more ammo
Title: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: Pei on May 29, 2004, 08:42:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by WilldCrd
Pyro how come the rear guns have the least amount of ammo? 90% of attacks come from the rear I would think they would have more ammo


.50 cal browning rounds are much bigger and heavier than .303 rounds.
Title: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: Replicant on May 30, 2004, 03:51:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by WilldCrd
Pyro how come the rear guns have the least amount of ammo? 90% of attacks come from the rear I would think they would have more ammo


As Pei mentions, the .303 is much smaller.  See the image below, we have:-

.303 - .50 - 20mm Hispano
(http://www.btinternet.com/~nexx/rounds.jpg)
Title: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: airbumba on May 31, 2004, 01:21:21 AM
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/459_1085983601_4295.jpg)

Avro Canada Inc. Lancaster, 303's top gun




(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/459_1085983538_22710.jpg)

Avro Canada Inc. Lancaster, 303's rear gun.



(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/459_1085984243_6310.jpg)

Avro Canada Inc. Lancaster, 50's top gun.




Wohoo, my first pics posted, woohoo.
Title: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: Adogg on May 31, 2004, 10:30:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Replicant
As Pei mentions, the .303 is much smaller.  See the image below, we have:-

.303 - .50 - 20mm Hispano
(http://www.btinternet.com/~nexx/rounds.jpg)


Ouch that hispano wouldn't half-hurt
:D
Title: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: Red Tail 444 on May 31, 2004, 02:49:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Adogg
Ouch that hispano wouldn't half-hurt
:D


You're right, that would TOTALLY hurt...
Title: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: MiloMorai on May 31, 2004, 03:50:31 PM
Lancaster turrets

upper: FN50(2x.303 - 1000rds ea.) or Martin(2x.50 - Cdn production)

front: FN5(2x.303 - 1000rds ea.)

tail: FN20(4x.303 - 2500rds ea.) replaced by FN121(4x.303 - 2500rds ea.) or  Rose(2x.50 rds ??? )

ventral: FN64(2x.303 - 750rds ea.) when fitted(H2S displaced it)
6 Group(Cdn) also mounted a single manual operated .303 or .50

FN = Fraser-Nash not Fabrique Nationale(sp??)

More info http://www.lancastermuseum.ca/airgunners3.html
this one is good http://www.lancaster-archive.com/Lanc-Turrets.htm
Title: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: Furball on May 31, 2004, 04:20:40 PM
Lancaster B. Mk VII late in the war could also be fitted with the Bristol B.17 Top turret with 2 x 20mm hispano cannon.  These were intended for the 'Tiger Force' to fight in japan.  Used by No. 9 Squadron based Salibani, India
Title: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: airbumba on May 31, 2004, 06:23:32 PM
This is a pic from Avro Canada Inc. , Lancaster dept. It seems to be the cagework for the upper gun, do you think so?

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/459_1086045617_3532.jpg)
Title: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: MiloMorai on May 31, 2004, 07:04:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by airbumba
This is a pic from Avro Canada Inc. , Lancaster dept. It seems to be the cagework for the upper gun, do you think so?


It is the nose section. The round hole is for the bomb aimers glass. The turret fits in the opening on the left.

from the link posted above,

(http://www.lancaster-archive.com/lanc-fusl1.JPG)
Title: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: airbumba on May 31, 2004, 08:23:52 PM
Great ! Thanks Milo. We were wonderin where it fit.

Good to see another Avro fan

..I won't mention the Arrow.
Title: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: Replicant on June 01, 2004, 03:53:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by airbumba
Great ! Thanks Milo. We were wonderin where it fit.

Good to see another Avro fan

..I won't mention the Arrow.


I have some inside Lancaster photos if you're interested?  Some were took last week, the others earlier in the year.
Title: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: airbumba on June 01, 2004, 03:15:32 PM
You know what Replicant, If it isn't too much trouble, sure I'd like some pics.

Here's my addy:

Andrew_pro@yahoo.com

Thanks Replicant  
Title: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: Replicant on June 01, 2004, 05:53:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by airbumba
You know what Replicant, If it isn't too much trouble, sure I'd like some pics.

Here's my addy:

Andrew_pro@yahoo.com

Thanks Replicant  


No trouble at all! :)  Photos sent!  Just hope they don't get bounced for being too big! :)
Title: AH Lanc III rear turret guns?
Post by: airbumba on June 01, 2004, 07:54:48 PM
Replicant:

Just downed them now. Nice pics. I didn't find them low lighted, think they're fine, good job.

Thanks again