Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Halo on May 29, 2004, 06:51:59 PM
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Although it would be a sitting duck (famous picture) in most situations, the Catalina has been a favorite for eventual addition to Aces High.
I found one in MS Flight Sim 2004 add-ons, and was surprised to find it is the first aircraft I have ever seen in any flight simulation that will take off and land simply by increasing and decreasing the throttle -- no need to touch any other controls.
Is this just a fluke of MSFS 2004, or is the real life Catalina that stable?
Flying it is about like piloting a blimp. Going nowhere fast, but rock steady. Water effects in MSFS 2004 are fun, as is its unmatched gorgeous external viewing.
Researched Catalina on Google but didn't find anything commenting about any possibility of throttle only takeoff and landing. Whaddya think?
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I can't comment on the stability issue, but I have to agree that it could be a good addition to AHII. The ToD aspect could really open up the world for support aircraft. The Catalina could run Maritime Patrol, SAR, and transport missions within the ToD framework, and while a lot of folks would be bored to tears with it, I know of a few (my father included) who would enjoy the opportunity to something along those lines.
Its hard to say what will play with the masses though. I loved leading a scouting unit in Midway (Fall 2002), but most of my unit threatened to mutiny if they didn't get a bombing mission (we were in SBDs).
-Sik
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Originally posted by Sikboy
I can't comment on the stability issue, but I have to agree that it could be a good addition to AHII. The ToD aspect could really open up the world for support aircraft. The Catalina could run Maritime Patrol, SAR, and transport missions within the ToD framework, and while a lot of folks would be bored to tears with it, I know of a few (my father included) who would enjoy the opportunity to something along those lines.
Its hard to say what will play with the masses though. I loved leading a scouting unit in Midway (Fall 2002), but most of my unit threatened to mutiny if they didn't get a bombing mission (we were in SBDs).
-Sik
:lol If they add it, there better be a "perk per airborne minute" multiplier each time someone flies one:rofl
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
:lol If they add it, there better be a "perk per airborne minute" multiplier each time someone flies one:rofl
and thus my implication that it would have limited appeal. Of course, I'm thinking along the lines of ToD, so I don't think Perk points are really at issue.
-Sik
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Lets just make HiTech give it to us so we can find out for ourselves :D
Catalina? .....yes please
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I'm thinking it'd make a good substitution for the C-47, plus it would be armed. Can you imagine the potential of launching a PBY full of troops from a carrier group?
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Originally posted by gofaster
I'm thinking it'd make a good substitution for the C-47, plus it would be armed. Can you imagine the potential of launching a PBY full of troops from a carrier group?
I wasn't aware PBY's were sea based...
I wouldnt mind flying one if it had an ENY of 2,000, however :)
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I'm not aware of Catalinas ever being used for troop transport or actually being based at sea with any ship group. Patrol was their bag along with the famous night attack spinoff.
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Hi Halo,
>Researched Catalina on Google but didn't find anything commenting about any possibility of throttle only takeoff and landing. Whaddya think?
No way :-)
Any crosswind component during take-off would push the downwind float deeper into the water, which would create greater drag and try to yaw the aircraft nose downwind. The same crosswind would also act on the vertical tail by trying to yaw the aircraft nose upwind, but these forces weren't normally compensating each other, so pilot "interference" was still necessary :-)
I'd also imagine that for getting onto the step, control of the angle-of-attack of the flying boat with relation to the water surface is required. Maybe the correct trim would make the trick possible in perfectly calm seas, but I'm sure with any noticable swell, the pilot has to fly the aircraft.
On the other hand, I believe the Catalina really has a reputation for stability as well as one for unimipressive speed ;-)
Regards,
Henning
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Originally posted by Halo
I'm not aware of Catalinas ever being used for troop transport or actually being based at sea with any ship group. Patrol was their bag along with the famous night attack spinoff.
They were used for sub hunting too; being armed (I believe) with depth charges.
HiTech has said that at some point he'd like to see subs in the game; when/if it happens; we'll need a way to kill 'em.....
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Henning, thanks for your input. Yeah, a PBY throttle only takeoff and landing seems impossible to me too. But ... maybe on a glassy sea, no wind ... I wonder.
Another factor would be the prop rotation. I assume, unlike the P-38 and like most twin props, the props rotated same direction? If so, obviously would require pilot yaw control. But if props did rotate in opposite directions, throttle only ascent and descent seems more possible.
Now I'll have to find a P-38 on FS 2004 to try that throttle only bit, except I think only a seaplane could do that stunt because of the endless "runway." My current 7.30 X-Plane allows endless takeoffs through obstacles so might try it there.
Another problem with this particular PBY in FS 2004 is that the wingtip floats are retracted up and I haven't figured out how to load enough panel to find the down control.
The ease of upgrading in Aces High is really stunning compared to MS Flight Sim 2004 and X-Plane where you have to hunt and stuff and unzip and fool around until the folders are properly layered and positioned.
I've added quite a few planes in both FS 2004 and X-Plane but it is never easy. And some sites even charge a premium for fast downloads. Oh well, nothing is free, and developers certainly deserve payment.
It's the generous people who donate well-crafted add-ons that deserve special thanks. What marvelous gifts to the community.
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Hi Halo,
>Another factor would be the prop rotation. I assume, unlike the P-38 and like most twin props, the props rotated same direction?
Yes.
http://members.aol.com/hohunkhan/Catalina.jpg
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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ask phillipe cousteau what he, er, um wait he's dead ain't he.
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Sooooo, I just HAVE to ask this question from a gameplay standpoint, if you land on water is it a successful landing??? Don't see why not. No ditch recorded :aok
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Originally posted by SpitLead
Sooooo, I just HAVE to ask this question from a gameplay standpoint, if you land on water is it a successful landing??? Don't see why not. No ditch recorded :aok
good ? i would think you would. If we do get the Cat we should be able to take off from both land and water.
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That would definitely give this bird a very unique advantage.:)
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Originally posted by Halo
Now I'll have to find a P-38 on FS 2004 to try that throttle only bit, except I think only a seaplane could do that stunt because of the endless "runway." My current 7.30 X-Plane allows endless takeoffs through obstacles so might try it there.
I think it's only possible because you are in a game and flat water and no wind (unless you you can set those in MSFS).
I think the main reason that plane would be so steady is that the bulk of the weight is well below the wings. that design doesn't do much for maneuverability but all that weight, that far below the wings, is like a pendulum that self-rights the aircraft. when you go into a bank the weight swings over to the high-side of the turn and pulls it back down to level.
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Good points, capt. apathy. Here's another Catalina question: In MSFS 2004, the amphibian can be landed on water even if the landing gear is extended. In real life, would that be possible?
If so, would the Catalina and other amphibians then take on water and sink? Or is gear extended in water also waterproof, perhaps so amphibians can land on water and then taxi up a ramp on to land and vice versa?
Obviously I know little about amphibians. But they are fascinating.
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I would think that if Amphibs were ever implemented, there would be seaplane bases for them to operate from at the ports. A water landing should count as a ditch unless you de-spawn at one of these bases IMO.
How does spawning/despawning work in PT boats? (I don't spend a lot of time in em).
-Sik
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If the Cat is only used at ports there would be no need for it in the game. How many ports are normally in a set up three maybe four for each side? I think (opinion only) that the Cat should be land based and port based. I would think also since the craft can take off from land and sea that it should be allowed to land on either.
I would think that since the landing gear even when it is retracted is in the water that no water can get into the craft and cause it to sink. It seems to me that if you landed with the gear down that it would rip the gear off which at that point you would probable take on water.
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Originally posted by memnon
If the Cat is only used at ports there would be no need for it in the game. How many ports are normally in a set up three maybe four for each side? I think (opinion only) that the Cat should be land based and port based. I would think also since the craft can take off from land and sea that it should be allowed to land on either.
Sure, I have no problem with land based Cats. However, I maintain that a water landing, away from a facility should count as a ditch. Any aircraft can land on the ground, but we are only credited with a "successfull landing" if we put it down on the runway.
-Sik
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I agree Sikboy. However, given that his airplane will be a 2 engine pig (very low speed) with limited armament for defense (these aircraft never flew in formations like the B17s and Ju88s) it would be a very nice and unique advantage to be able to get a successful landing on water anywhere. Also, I very much like the ability to fly these out of ports as well as land bases. Currently if your Port is under attack you need to get there from an adjacent base which is kind of a pain. Having a Cat there to launch torpedo or bomb attacks on a CV would be good.
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ya, but you'd have the guys who fly low over the water and just drop down and land as soon as they see an nme plane.
maybe require them to beach it, or at least require a waiting period before it's logged as a landing. so if you dive for the water and land, you have to sit a while, you are vulnerable, and if killed before the time runs out, it's not a landing.
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Originally posted by Sikboy
most of my unit threatened to mutiny if they didn't get a bombing mission (we were in SBDs).
-Sik
I hate SBDs! ;)
Fromerly known as Grimamoto
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Id like to see the PBY for no other reason than Its a cool looking A/C.
I really dont care about if guys low can quick land and go to tower. If your worried about losing out a PBY kill, well thats not much of a kill anyway. I dont really care about if its a ditch or a landing. Guys arnt going to be going home with mulit kill sorties in a Cat.
It would certainly be a plane for scenario use more than MA use.
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Originally posted by Grimm
It would certainly be a plane for scenario use more than MA use.
Yep, I have to agree. I'm holding out that there will be a place for MarPat in ToD if and when it gets to the Pacific.
-Sik
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I guess i should have Explained myself when i suggested that the Cat could get a succesful land on water by saying that it has to be near a port.
If you takeoff from an airbase or from a port you would have the choose to either land at an airbase or at a port. In order to get a succesful land at a port you would need to taxi into a spot were a PT boat would spawn. Do you see what i am saying now I'm not saying you can land just anywhere in the water and get credit for landing.
I think the PBY would be great for attacking the nme fleets. I have done some research on the Cat and they carried torps, bombs, and even a few crews put 20mm in the nose for strafing barges.
I think that it would be a great recon plane at least it would give a more realistic feel for recon missions.
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Originally posted by memnon
In order to get a succesful land at a port you would need to taxi into a spot were a PT boat would spawn. Do you see what i am saying now I'm not saying you can land just anywhere in the water and get credit for landing.
apparently, we're saying the same thing then.
-Sik
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Actually Catalinas did fly in groups of three many times, although mainly when on rescue missions, but from what I have read they also did some hunting of surface ships at night in formation as well...
They were known as the workhorse of the Navy because of the many different rolls they performed.
Long Range Recon
Night Raids (famous Black Cat Squadrons)
Cargo & Troop Movements (Among the small Island groups)
NIcknames: Cat; Mad Cat (When outfitted with Magnetic Anomaly Detection Gear); Black Cat (Night Variant); Pig Boat; P-Boat; Y-Boat (Dutch Navy nickname); Canso/Canso A (Canadian designation); Nomad (Initial "PBN-1" designation of the PBY-6A); Mop (NATO designation for Soviet Lend-Lease PBYs).
Specifications (PBY-6A):
Engines: Two 1,200-hp Pratt & Whitney R-1830-92 Twin Wasp radial piston engines
Weight: Empty 19,910 lbs., Max Takeoff 37,420 lbs.
Wing Span: 104ft. 0in.
Length: 63ft. 10.5in.
Height: 20ft. 2in.
Performance:
Maximum Speed: 189 mph
Long-Range Cruising Speed: 137 mph
Ceiling: 16,700 ft.
Range: 2,645 miles
Armament:
Five 7.62-mm (0.3-inch) machine guns
Up to 4,000 pounds of bombs, torpedos, depth charges
Originally posted by SpitLead
I agree Sikboy. However, given that his airplane will be a 2 engine pig (very low speed) with limited armament for defense (these aircraft never flew in formations like the B17s and Ju88s) it would be a very nice and unique advantage to be able to get a successful landing on water anywhere. Also, I very much like the ability to fly these out of ports as well as land bases. Currently if your Port is under attack you need to get there from an adjacent base which is kind of a pain. Having a Cat there to launch torpedo or bomb attacks on a CV would be good.
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Originally posted by Rockport
They were known as the workhorse of the Navy because of the many different rolls they performed.
Long Range Recon
Night Raids (famous Black Cat Squadrons)
Cargo & Troop Movements (Among the small Island groups)
The Cargo and Long Range Recon missions could be a lot of fun in the ToD structure. I think it would be pretty fun to deliver cargo to a forward base, trying to avoid detection and being forced to divert to another base, refuel and continue. This could be even better if we didn't have the use of the clipboard map (ie, we had to actually plan a flight path and follow it without constant computer updates as to our position). Imagine a bad course change, and getting lost at sea lol.
Maritime Patrol is essential to Naval Air in the pacific theater. Detection is one of the most important aspects of Combat, and Planes like the Catalina and SBD played a major role for the US in this aspect (The Japanese have some cool float planes and flying boats as well... would be pretty cool to have catapult launched E13As or something similar). Imagine if Anti-shipping strike missions would first require a successfull patrol mission? This could work pretty well in the Solomons I think, where you could run land operations constantly, then if someone finds a target while on MARPAT, the mission generator could put together a strike mission for people to join.
I'm really looking forward to this type of thing, and hope that it will be available in the future.
-Sik
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Catalina would be awsome to see in AH
but Im afraid it won't be very....more practical then other bombers, it can take off/land from/on the water, but what good is that? What use has it got? What advance do we have flying it?
I heard it could take 2000lbs bombs/torpedoes, that's the same as the TBM won't it?
Tho it would get drones and some good defensive guns :)
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Originally posted by frank3
Catalina would be awsome to see in AH
but Im afraid it won't be very....more practical then other bombers, it can take off/land from/on the water, but what good is that? What use has it got? What advance do we have flying it?
I heard it could take 2000lbs bombs/torpedoes, that's the same as the TBM won't it?
Tho it would get drones and some good defensive guns :)
In the MA, you're right. But the H8K Emily might find a home, 2 torps and 5 20mm cannons :)
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/IJARG/kawanishih8k.html
-Sik
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Sure is a nice one!
You'd almost think it was post war with those 20mm cannons!
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A few weeks ago my town had it's annual airshow, during which the now grounded avro vulcan (which I work on) at the airport is on display and next to us was a flying display Catalina and speaking to pilot he said it's a reasonably stable aircraft for its age but he also added it was great maritime recon and U-boat hunter but should it meet a 109 it was 'pretty much screwed' as he put dispite it's defensive guns although in the hands of a skilled catalina pilot it could turn sharper then a spit!
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The Sunderland seems like it would make a good choice for a flying boat in the game as well... It has a gun sticking out of every open window hehehe.... The Luftwaffe named it the "Flying Porcupine" because during recon & rescue missions it was known to take down multiple JU88's who came to close....
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/BARC/sunderland.html (http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/BARC/sunderland.html)