Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: crowMAW on May 30, 2004, 09:12:11 PM
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Anyone read it? Valid arguments or "just more prattle"?
http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/books/05/25/author.and.the.general.ap/
http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=express&s=wirzbicki052604
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Oh cool... this means that maybe Clancy will stop wrapping his opinions up in the guise of fiction. :)
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Is that any worse than wrapping up fiction in the guise of one's opinions? :)
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Dunno. I saw Hannity make an idiot out of Zinni, though. It really showed he had an agenda, not a position.
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Controversey makes book sales climb. No such thing as bad press if you're chucking a book.
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I went off Tom Clancy's books after Clear And Present Danger, other then for the technical details the stories themselves and writting style are rather normal.
Compare to a well written book on a military subject like Guy Sajer's Forgotten Soilder I only last a few chapters in any of Clancy's novels.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by Martlet
Dunno. I saw Hannity make an idiot out of Zinni, though. It really showed he had an agenda, not a position.
Hannity couldn't make an idiot out of an idiot.
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It's not just Zinni.
"This appears not to be just confined to Zinni, but to active duty officers as well. Interesting that Rumsfeld thinks that in the Clinton Administration, the Military Brass had too much influence:
Iraq War Woes Deepen Internal Pentagon Tensions
Sun May 30,10:44 AM ET Add Top Stories - Reuters to My Yahoo!
By Will Dunham
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Tensions between the civilian leaders of the Pentagon (news - web sites), led by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, and the U.S. military's top brass have deepened amid the deteriorating situation in Iraq (news - web sites).
Even before the Iraq war some senior officers chafed under the guidance of Rumsfeld and his team, including Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith and Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence Stephen Cambone.
Retired officers and defense analysts said the problems have worsened during a war in which critics accuse Rumsfeld's team of neglecting to provide enough troops to stabilize Iraq after ousting Saddam Hussein (news - web sites), botching the planning for the postwar period, and failing to anticipate and later comprehend an insurgency that threatens the mission with failure.
"The war itself has led to, rightly or wrongly, the feeling among many in the military that they're not receiving competent direction, that it is too ideological, and that a lot of their military efforts have been wasted by what they regard as poor, inept planning for the stability phase," said Anthony Cordesman, a former Pentagon official now with the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
The military, particularly the Army, has been strained mightily in maintaining troop levels in Iraq far higher than the Pentagon had forecast. Faced with a relentless insurgency, the Pentagon ordered 20,000 troops to remain three months longer than promised, and scrambled to find ways to maintain the current count of 138,000 troops there through the end of 2005.
Meanwhile, the military has been stained by a scandal in which soldiers physically and sexually abused Iraqi prisoners.
"It's obvious there has been damage to the U.S. military as an institution because it is over-strained and it is over-deployed. And it is beginning to see its morale erode because it is losing confidence in the direction of the war," Cordesman said.
Retired Marine Corps Gen. Anthony Zinni, former top U.S. commander in the Middle East, criticized Rumsfeld's team in "Battle Ready," a book written with author Tom Clancy.
"In the lead-up to the Iraq war and its later conduct, I saw at a minimum true dereliction, negligence and irresponsibility, at worse, lying, incompetence and corruption," Zinni wrote.
'WAITING HIM OUT'
University of North Carolina military historian Richard Kohn said a natural tension has existed between political appointees named by any president to head the Defense Department and the professional military officers who must follow their lead. Kohn said Rumsfeld's relationship with the military brass has been as tense as any defense secretary except Robert McNamara, the Vietnam War era Pentagon chief.
"He has alienated the military," Kohn said. "Many of them are waiting him out, or avoiding bringing problems to him, or trying to avoid dealing with him. And he knows that. And he avoids them quite frequently, and circumvents them, and tries to get around the bureaucracy."
"He's blunt. He's direct. He can be abusive. He can be difficult. And he's often indecisive. He keeps questioning and questioning, and he doesn't provide these people with answers. And they're not sure what his position is. They're not sure what he wants," Kohn said.
Retired Army Maj. Gen. William Nash, who commanded an armored brigade in the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites) and led troops into Bosnia, said some grumbling by senior officers is customary.
"But this time around, it seems that there are some very serious concerns, primarily oriented on the issue of what this escapade (Iraq) has done to the military, primarily the Army," added Nash, now with the Council on Foreign Relations.
Rumsfeld, who also served as defense secretary from 1975 to 1977, began his second stint in 2001 determined to reassert civilian control over the generals and admirals, who he felt were ceded too much sway in the Clinton administration.
"The Constitution calls for civilian control of this department, and I'm a civilian," Rumsfeld once told reporters.
Rumsfeld's first skirmishes stemmed from his quest to "transform" the military from a plodding, Cold War-era relic into an agile force designed to confront 21st century threats.
Rumsfeld was seen as particularly hard on the Army, undercutting its former top officer, Gen. Eric Shinseki. Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz dismissed Shinseki's assertion a month before the war that several hundred thousand U.S. troops might be needed to stabilize postwar Iraq.
"The Shinseki thing is really ironic because not only was he badly treated, he was right," Nash said."
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Ive paid to listen to Clanceys prattle over the years.
Im still waiting to get paid for listening to yours!
:aok
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Browse from work. ;)
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I was surprise to read how critical this book appears to be. Especially having read "Into the Storm: A Study in Command" written by Clancy and Ret. General Franks who was in charge of XIII Corp during the Gulf War. A very positive "good news" book about how the military recovered from Vietnam and went on to victory in the Gulf War.
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Im starting to read a "Devide and Conquer" today if i get the time. Tom is one of my all time favs :)
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Originally posted by Martlet
Dunno. I saw Hannity make an idiot out of Zinni, though. It really showed he had an agenda, not a position.
no one really takes hannity seriously anyway...he reminds me of the fat kid who sat in the back in 8th grade who always had some smarta-- comment and had others fight his battles...probably couyldnt fight his way outta paper bag but talks a great game....
full of sound and fury...:lol
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Hannity couldn't make an idiot out of an idiot.
Ok, then Zinni made an idiot out of himself. Either way, he looked like an opportunistic hypocritical moron.
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I just finished reading "Red Storm Rising" for the billionth time. Clancey peaked way too early.
-Sik
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Originally posted by Yeager
Ive paid to listen to Clanceys prattle over the years.
Im still waiting to get paid for listening to yours!
:aok
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Im going to start reading Red Storm Rising again for the 20th time or so, as I might be going to Hannover next month, and of course I have to take a quick trip to Alfeld to see what it looks like.
Yes Clancys books after Rainbow six went to hell. He should have taken a cold shower before he started to write Bear and the Dragon
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So there are more people than me that read that book over and over again. I think ive read it once every year since i got it. Can't wait til i get senile so it will all be new every time :)
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Originally posted by Sikboy
I just finished reading "Red Storm Rising" for the billionth time. Clancey peaked way too early.
-Sik
Yep.. and forgot to put Ryan in that one too. darnit!
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Clancy should stick to stuff he knows about.
I just finished 'Sea of Fire', great commedy, but Im pretty sure that isnt what he intended.
Does he even write those books anymore? Or do they just whack his name on the cover so it looks good?
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Originally posted by Bluedog
Clancy should stick to stuff he knows about.
I just finished 'Sea of Fire', great commedy, but Im pretty sure that isnt what he intended.
Does he even write those books anymore? Or do they just whack his name on the cover so it looks good?
what is "sea of fire" about?
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Sea of Fire is about an Australian bussiness magnate who is involved in the theft, processing and sale to terrorists of nuclear waste.
And how the authorities from the US, Singapore and Australia go about catching him.
The actual gist of the story is pretty cool, it's just the glaring mistakes that annoy me.
For anyone who is not an Aussie, or doesnt have much of an idea about Australian geography, the mistakes wont even be noticeable.
Just stuff like at one point they talk about boarding a Huey in Tamworth, NSW, and getting off it 90 minutes later in Darwin, NT.
That is one FAST Huey, with loooong range tanks too apparently.
And they speak of the Great Barrier Reef being allmost 200 miles long.......it is closer to 1000 miles long.
Just little stuff like that......I may be being picky, but it annoys me that the author didnt even bother to check a map.
I just looked, and allthough it says "Tom Clancey's Op Centre" in the title, there is another name as the author.
So apparently, his name is just there for sales purposes.