Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: beet1e on May 31, 2004, 05:36:41 AM
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I've just downloaded the AH2 Beta36 update. I read through the changes, which were mostly fixes, but when logging on I found some more changes - fuel strat changes. The new way is going to be thus:
- 50% of fuel bunkers destroyed will disable drop tanks at that field.
- 90% or more of fuel bunkers destroyed will pork fuel to 75%.
So no more 25% suicide fuel porks. :D
And the AH2 whine list potential grows and grows - lol! What are some of these guys going to have left to do in the game any more?! I guess some of them are just going to have to learn to fly properly. ;) Their tactics will have to change to fighting, instead of preventing the other side fighting!
I was in a mixed mood yesterday afternoon. On the plus side, I was flying 109F4 and doing OK. Since getting combat trim sorted out I can make turns which would not have been possible before. I got a N1K in a tight turn, and had to pull so much lead for the shot that the bogie was not visible when I fired, so I wasn't sure what part I would hit, if any. He's smoking and burning, but as I egressed, I am nailed with a 575yd spray shot. :mad: But I took heart in the fact that AH2 is going to do away with those long range spray shots. And the fuel strat amendment announcement was icing on the cake!
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Gunnery is harder but if you aim you can still hit. I got 2 1.1k(on my end) hits on a temp with my Il-2
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The fuel strat changes will mark a watershed moment for this game. They will help drive a stake through the heart of the horde mentality. Most of us don't mind being outnumbered so long as we are still able to fight.
From my short experience with beta, it also seems that bases and cvs have also been "hardened," making them more difficult to capture or sink.
These changes make it apparent that HiTech and crew HAVE been listening to the constructive criticisms made on these boards.
Kudos to them! :aok
Regards, Shuckins/Leggern
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Originally posted by Shuckins
The fuel strat changes will mark a watershed moment for this game. They will help drive a stake through the heart of the horde mentality. Most of us don't mind being outnumbered so long as we are still able to fight.
From my short experience with beta, it also seems that bases and cvs have also been "hardened," making them more difficult to capture or sink.
These changes make it apparent that HiTech and crew HAVE been listening to the constructive criticisms made on these boards.
Kudos to them! :aok
Regards, Shuckins/Leggern
Whereas I used to pork fuel to stop/slow down the horde! So I guess it works both ways; you can't stop a horde/gangbang attacking you now, whereas porking fuel could make them fight another front and give you some breathing space.
I anticipate quicker resets.
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Replicant,
I can see where you're coming from on that. I don't necessarily disagree. However, it seems to me that the horde was always about base captures and winning the reset. That will be more difficult with the new changes. Therefore we may see the use of the mass gangbangs diluted somewhat when AHII goes live.
I also strongly suspect that the horde gains numbers from newbs and score hounds logging on, checking the rosters to see which country has the most numbers and bases, and immediately switching to what they perceive to be the "winning side." There may not be any way to bring that completely under control...seeing as how there will always be those who like to play games from positions of overwhelming strength. There seem to be quite a few players with that character flaw.
By the way...there were more than 100 players on line in beta Sunday night. But a few minutes after I logged on, a storm knocked out power before I could engage the enemy.
Bummer.
Regards, Shuckins/Leggern
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I have been hitting at 600 yards fairly easily in AH2 and I am not a very good shot. Those who are good will be hitting even farther.
The fuel thing is great.
Being able to switch countries at will is great too... I have turned over a new leaf and embraced the real AH strat.. I have decided to go with whatever country has the most numbers to avoid frustration. Eventually I will be able to pat myself on the back for the increase in skill I now have.
I find that surviving those 3 vs 1 fights are getting easier now that I am on of the three instead of the one.
lazs
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lazs,
Oi...ya TRAITOR ya! ;)
Regards, Shuckins/Leggern
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shuckins can attest to the fact that my new conversion to AH strat works.
lazs
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I detest the suicide field pork syndrome. I belong to a small attack squad, and 'strating' fields is one of the few attack missions that actually have an impact on the tactical situation in arena. Our goal is always to fly smart and survive, which is not an easy thing to do in a arena full of pilots who 'bore in' knowing they are going to die and just re-plane. It seems to me that the solution would be to assess a greater strategic penalty for losing airplanes. Currently there appears to be no tactical or strategic motivation to land a sortie, other that personal pride and score. Why is there no limitation on the supply systems ability to supply fighters to the front line? If the fighters had to be trained or trucked in (and be subject to interdiction), that would seem to reduce the gang bang syndrome. I already know the reason why this is not done, but I had to float the idea.:aok
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See, I completely disagree....I think the resource porking is a valid tactic...just as it is in real life. Of course, I see no reference to spawn point camping, which runs rampant in GV situations, but again, just another tactic. It's these various methods that make the game engaging to me. I see a lot of whines about the ability to do this or that, seems to me some folks would prefer no GV's, no fleets, nothing but aircraft so they can play furball all day to their hearts content without ever actually worrying about something as mundane as resources, naval invasions or heaven forbid, ground vehicles!
There are flight sim games out there like that, but this isn't one of them. It's multi-faceted with muliple tactics and methodologies for fighting an enemy. As much as I get friustrated over some things, I for one, hope HT doesn't make some silly changes to slake the whining of a minority few....
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Originally posted by slaker
It seems to me that the solution would be to assess a greater strategic penalty for losing airplanes. Currently there appears to be no tactical or strategic motivation to land a sortie, other that personal pride and score.
Yes, I agree entirely. This is partly why I *like* the Pizza map. The "strategic penalty" for losing a plane is that you have to fly for longer to get back to the fight, instead of being able to re-up and get back 1˝mins later. That seems to deter many from forming a conveyor belt of steamrollers. Of course, the reverse also applies: You can have 8 kills and then find you don't have the fuel to RTB to land 'em.
AKWarp I see what you're saying, and fuel porkage did happen in WW2 (ever see that Torbruk movie with Gregory Peck?). But in AH, it has got out of hand and has become the raison d'ętre of hordes of "pilots".
Lazs! Whaddya mean you're not a good shot? In RL I've seen you hit an individual shotgun cartridge lying on a bank of earth 20 yards away, using your .44 Magnum.
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gents, gents! This is to give the beta testers a chance to evaluate the new modelling of the fuel consumption. The burn rate has been turned up quite dramatically that having a base with 25% fuel will negate this evaluation.
NOBODY has said that this burn rate will stay or this strat set up will stay.
However, if this strat setup stays, it will discourage targetting fuel at the base because it will cause only minimal impact. Which means, you need more vulchers to keep a base capped. But then, as I said, nobody said this is final.
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this is kinda funny.... make a penalty for dieing so that everyone is even more timid and there is even less action? Hard to believe that there could be any less action or that anyone would want any less..
pizza? farther fields? the penalty for being being bored should be... be even more bored?
what's wrong with just moving the fields a little closer like 3/4 of a sector and making them easy to capture so that they can be captured and recaptured rapidly? the action would move quickly and even those like myself who feel strat is beyond silly would appear to be "participating" because we would be part of the action.
lazs
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Replicant, I see what your saying too.
In my experience though, if the horde meet resistance at one base they grow dispirited and try the next closest nme base.
Repeat this a couple of times and you find all bases close to the action are down to 25% and you dont have any option but to lift off at the vulch base or spend 30 mins getting to the fight from the nearest base where fuel isnt porked.
With no less than 75%, some people are going to feel it's ok to get shot down a few times if finally you've the fuel to get up to meet the incoming nme without a huge disadvantage.
So, perhaps it will result in more planes meeting on more equal terms, which I think is a good thing.
While I'm at it, I've noticed how any team can steamroller across a piece of turf in Pizza by hitting fuel if they've the zone base. Soon as the zone changes and they cant pork the next line of bases without slowing themselves down, it gets much more interesting.
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so now beet1e will be happy he'll always have the fuel to grab alt and/or run with a bogey 600 off his 6 until his help arrives.
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I sense the start of an entertaining thread...
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Originally posted by lazs2
I find that surviving those 3 vs 1 fights are getting easier now that I am on of the three instead of the one.
lazs
it also improves your ability to get kills when another person was just about to grab the shot you kill stealing bastard!!! :p
run with a bogey 600 off his 6 until his help arrives.
lazs did that about 10 minutes after that kill steal as well...
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The porking issues we have now could easily be fixed just by upping the lethality of the AA guns around the field up to a certain altitude. This would force folks to drop from a higher alt than the 2000 feet above their targets that you see now. By doing this it would force them to get better at higher drops and hit percentages would be go down drastically without practice. This goes for heavy fighters not bombers. Bombers should also be forced high to an extent and still have to deal with an umbrella of ack at higher alts. The density of these would depend on the field and it's overall affect to the game as a whole. Smaller fields would have less high alt AAA coverage than lets say a larger field or depot facility.
Currently they can go in release their weapons and still take out the target with pretty high accuracy due to the lower altitudes they are dealing with. Forcing them to release up around 6 thousand feet or more over the target could definately help this issue out. I'm not sure about what the typical drop altitude was during WWII though so that would have to be looked at.
This would also make it harder to de-ack the fields and vulching would take more of an effort than what it is now. If you can de-ack the field and get a vulch fest going then you deserve to take the base.
I think by doing this it would bring the value of flying bombers up and you'd see alot more of them opposed to the heavy fighters you constantly see now. Smaller fields could easily use the tactical approach of heavy fighters and medium/larger fields would require a combination of heavy fighters and bombers to take the fields down properly. This goes for the HQ too. There should be no way that the HQ should be taken down by a small group of heavy fighters. It should be packed with AAA and be the most heavily defending base on the map.
I say bring up the lethality and amount of AAA around the bases and strat targets. And make taking down strat have more of an affect on the game play. Make them be extremely critical as they should be. If you hit the local areas fuel depot then guess what, slowly the amount of fuel you have will not only decline (through amount of usage by players)but the re-supply time will go up until you re-supply the affected depot facility. We should also have high alt AAA for the bombers at major facilities such as the HQ, Fuel, Ammo, Grunt, AAA and radar facilities. Opposed to having just a few bombers hit the areas and take it down with almost no threat to themselves they will have to feel exactly what it was like in WWII with the massive AAA coverage on major strategic targets. This should in a sense force them to bring more than just a few buddies in formations.
On the average for a major target the 8th Air Force flew anywhere from 18 to 36 aircraft in group(up to 4 or 5 groups) formation. This is really nothing when you consider the amount of players we have playing on a daily basis. With the current formation setup we have thats a minimum of 6 to 12 players in the bomber formation. Add escort groups (which will be needed because I'm sure folks will defend now) and your looking at 2 to 4 fighters per each group of bombers. Thats really not all that much considering I've seen 50 in missions before that in the end caused damage but did hardly much other than pork some of the bases strategic items and the base was still operable.
Oh and the whole point of war which the last time I checked is what the MA designed for, is to disable the opponents ability to fight. Deny them the ability to wage war by essentially nullifying all targets to a degree that their ability to wage war will cease to exist. What it's coming down to is not a war room but a dueling arena with a pinch of stradegy that equals to nothing more than a MSFS with bombs that does little to the overall scheme of things.
There is a happy medium for fighter pilots and bomber/strategic pilots. No matter how many discussions have gone over this it will never change. Fighter pilots want less strategic game play and bomber/strategic pilots want more of it. Simple thing for all to enjoy this would implement such a system where fighter pilots would be doing essentially what their job is (Combat Air Patrols ie: CAP). They would also be doing escort missions for the bombers. If this scenario doesn't give you the opportunity to run into fighters I don't know what will. Your guaranteed the bombers will have escorts and you'll be guaranteed a fighter to fighter battle in and around the buff formations. If the people setting up the missions do it in a typical manner then you'll also see fighters flying CAP in and around the target areas suppressing enemy fighters from engaging the bombers that are in route.
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let the Vulch-Mania begin......
thats my prediction
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Cobra peharps I misunderstood your post but doesn't this will create an ack sanctuary over each field ?
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vorticon... I can only watch people play with their food for so long... it gets painful to watch. I believe I told you that if you continued to dance with the guy I wasn't gonna be able to help myself..
comes from being in a country that is allways outnumbered as oppossed to one that allways has the numbers... if you don't get practice you don't get any better.
lazs
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why not introduce marines and special forces and such like, 'a'la operation flashpoint' and have farms and civilians and children and dogs and birds to get stuck in your engine and police and air mask over 10,000ft and royal families for each country and a smell sensour system plugged into your computer to emit burning oil fumes and such like and lets have individual blades of grass on the ground and trees that hurt you and rain and snow and lightning and random engine malfunction and if you fly over 60,000ft you should be able to see god on a little cloud with angels and harps and redbull and.....and....and.....
....on second thoughts, scrap that, just give me a Sea Fury to fly!
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Straffo in a sense it does but I'm sure in WWII they had much of the same at their disposal. The other question is this are you there to take the field or are you there to pad your scores by vulching?
If you want to vulch the field then I guess your gonna have to make an effort to get that ack down. There is many areas around the maps that are fair game and level grounds for the combatants. Around a friendly field you have the advantage. This should be the way it works. If you are outside of this friendly area then it is up to you the pilot to ensure you keep the advantage on your side.
You have to realise that opposed to how the current setup is here in real life you didn't have these luxuries. The surrounding areas had AAA concentrations and they also had mobile units. This is not something we have modeled here. So in affect for a unit to come in unabated to the target they have to do very little but watch their dar bars and look for cons in the area. They can come in almost untouched unless someone actually scrambles to intercept them or someone just happens to run across them. In real life they'd have known about your presence through spotters or mobile units on the ground and depending on the target they could have a barrage of AAA to deal with before they get within 10 miles or more to the target area.
My thing is since there is so few areas inwhich someone can use their friendly units (AAA or mobile units ie: FLAK/M-16) you actually need this kind of umbrella. If you just want to fight an air to air battle then take it on the outskirts of the base out of AAA range. If the con wants to run to his/her AAA field then so be it. They are using the equipment they have at their disposal and you chose to come to the base and pick a fight. It's all about the decisions you make. If you don't want this to be a possibility find a battle ground not directly near the field and fight there. If they end up running because they're faster then yet again it's a poor decision on your part in regards to the airframe you have flown and tactics you have employed.
It's all a matter of finding a that fine line between what the fighter pilots want and what the bomber/strat pilots want. Fighter pilots don't want their bases porked so they can't defend themselves. Well give them lethal ack up to a particular alt and radius around the base. Then if the bombers/strat pilots want to employ their game play so be it. It's gonna be tougher but in the end the effectiveness of their drops and targets they chose will determine the overall outcome.
In the end the lethal AAA umbrellas will in affect cause a few things: Less suicide base porkers, more strat survivability (fuel, ammo, troops, ect...), less horde vulching unless they actually work for it (using some type of strategic assault initially), fighters will have protection to climb to a certain alt before being hung out to dry by their own base(ability to somewhat safely climb out to defend against and oncoming raid if alerted early enough), and give the strat folks the game play they wish to see but at a cost of the lethal AAA umbrellas and you'll also see more furballs set about in common ground areas so long as folks aren't prone to staying in their AAA fields constantly. This goes for all sides too not just one or the other. I'm sure you'll find that no matter what side you play on you have those folks who will use their AAA constantly and only fight when they feel like they have the advantage. That will never change no matter what you do. Some are timid fighters, some are borderline and some are aggressive.
Oh and the whole you thing isn't directed at you specifically I mean as a whole.
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Originally posted by mechanic
why not introduce marines and special forces and such like, 'a'la operation flashpoint' and have farms and civilians and children and dogs and birds to get stuck in your engine and police and air mask over 10,000ft and royal families for each country and a smell sensour system plugged into your computer to emit burning oil fumes and such like and lets have individual blades of grass on the ground and trees that hurt you and rain and snow and lightning and random engine malfunction and if you fly over 60,000ft you should be able to see god on a little cloud with angels and harps and redbull and.....and....and.....
....on second thoughts, scrap that, just give me a Sea Fury to fly!
quoting yourself is very in this season, all the tops dogs in Paris are doing it........
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more then 1 paragraph and you lose me....
:eek:
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Originally posted by beet1e
I've just downloaded the AH2 Beta36 update. I read through the changes, which were mostly fixes, but when logging on I found some more changes - fuel strat changes. The new way is going to be thus: - 50% of fuel bunkers destroyed will disable drop tanks at that field.
- 90% or more of fuel bunkers destroyed will pork fuel to 75%.
So no more 25% suicide fuel porks. :D
And the fuel strat amendment announcement was icing on the cake! [/B]
LOL I still have yet to see but a handful of true suiciders in the couple years I've been here.
Usually what looks like a suicider isnt but rather the result of auto ack killing em.
On the other hand. Fuel may only go down to tops 75% But think of the new fuel burn rate.
LOL might as well be 25
The base porking complaints will never go away untill people actually decide to actually protect their feilds
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Originally posted by Shuckins
The fuel strat changes will mark a watershed moment for this game. They will help drive a stake through the heart of the horde mentality. Most of us don't mind being outnumbered so long as we are still able to fight.
Kudos to them! :aok
Regards, Shuckins/Leggern
I dissagree. Mark my words.Unfortunately the hoard will live on just fine.
If you watch closely. The Hoard usually tries to take bases as intact as possable. They dont need to pork the fuel.
Typically what they do is kill the VH, All the ack and maybe the hangars. then cap the feild with such rediculously overwhelming numbers that its impossable to defend a base no matter what the fuel status is.
fuel porking on the other hand as well as killing off the barracks is at the moment the only thing I've seen that even begins to slow the hoard down.
The lack of ability to pork fuel is only going to serve to help the hoarders not hurt them
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"Fuel Porking" is a valid tactic. Irritating, yes, but valid.
Balancing reality vs. game play is a very tricky situation. You can't have as much reality as some would like and still make the game playable.
Whether it is the usual lone "Pony" that drops his 50 megaton bomb from 15K and destroys the VH without so much as a scratch, or the 50+ P-38 raid that destroys everything on the field including the field mascots water dish and every blade of grass and fly away unscathed, field flak is dismal at best at times. I notice in AHII that field ack is much tougher to destroy, but is it as lethal as it could be?
There is no clear-cut answer to all the questions. Beef up the field ack? Beef up the fuel stats? Harden the fuel bunkers? The hardened Ack will make it more difficult in some respects, but the volume of fire at a field under attack seems wimpy.
Every field that I have seen pictures of had many more guns and ack emplacements than what AH fields have. Maybe part of the answer lies in not so much increasing the accuracy, but increasing the volume of fire. Put some .50 caliber mounts around the field and on some buildings. Also put in a few more large AAA guns. That might slow down the divebombing Lancasters and the ground strafing B-17s a bit.
Will this help? I don't know. But a single aircraft should not be able to destroy a field’s fuel, ammo or VH and fly off untouched. Realism vs. playability. Again, a tough mix.
LTARsqrl
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I dissagree. Mark my words.Unfortunately the hoard will live on just fine.
If you watch closely. The Hoard usually tries to take bases as intact as possable. They dont need to pork the fuel.
Typically what they do is kill the VH, All the ack and maybe the hangars. then cap the feild with such rediculously overwhelming numbers that its impossable to defend a base no matter what the fuel status is.
fuel porking on the other hand as well as killing off the barracks is at the moment the only thing I've seen that even begins to slow the hoard down.
The lack of ability to pork fuel is only going to serve to help the hoarders not hurt them
I totally agree, and why I pork fuel, and btw, it's very, very rare if I get killed porking fuel; never my intention to be a suicide dweeb!! :)
Sometimes you'll get a horde take one base after another. I'm not talking about 6 or 7 people doing squad ops, but the 20 - 30 odd planes that just walk one field after another. These fields are normally taken intact.... so having fuel to defend didn't help at all did it? They still walk more fields.... so then it's time to pork their fuel to slow them down or at least concentrate them attacking in one direction only. I've often gone in alone and taken the fuel down and RTBd safely. I'd pass attacking planes who were more interested in vulching that to come after me and stop me. There's a difference in goals and mentality.
So, as I stated before, I expect faster resets because as soon as one side starts rolling they'll be no way to slow them down other than try and defend, and which doesn't really work against overwhelming odds.
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Originally posted by Replicant
I totally agree, and why I pork fuel, and btw, it's very, very rare if I get killed porking fuel; never my intention to be a suicide dweeb!! :)
Sometimes you'll get a horde take one base after another. I'm not talking about 6 or 7 people doing squad ops, but the 20 - 30 odd planes that just walk one field after another. These fields are normally taken intact.... so having fuel to defend didn't help at all did it? They still walk more fields.... so then it's time to pork their fuel to slow them down or at least concentrate them attacking in one direction only. I've often gone in alone and taken the fuel down and RTBd safely. I'd pass attacking planes who were more interested in vulching that to come after me and stop me. There's a difference in goals and mentality.
So, as I stated before, I expect faster resets because as soon as one side starts rolling they'll be no way to slow them down other than try and defend, and which doesn't really work against overwhelming odds.
All true, porking fuel is a good defensive move when the horde attacks. I like it too as it tends to move the furball back toward the horde base and makes for some good fights in the middle.
I'd have to agree on faster resets because of it. Or the defensive strategy will have to switch to porking troops all the time, which will cause a lot of crying around as well.
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I have mixed feelings about this. As a Lufter, always having 75% fuel is a Godsend, However, lest us not forget, one of the strategies behind winning the real war was to reduce the Axis fuel supplies which in the end helped nuetralize the Luftwaffe. I would be more in favor of more fuel targets as opposed to only going down to 75%.
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Originally posted by beet1e
I've just downloaded the AH2 Beta36 update. I read through the changes, which were mostly fixes, but when logging on I found some more changes - fuel strat changes. The new way is going to be thus: - 50% of fuel bunkers destroyed will disable drop tanks at that field.
- 90% or more of fuel bunkers destroyed will pork fuel to 75%.
So no more 25% suicide fuel porks. :D [/B]
Yes!!!
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
"Fuel Porking" is a valid tactic. Irritating, yes, but valid.
So is the HO,but most don't like it either.I won't miss the fuel porking at all.
The other night in pizza,I actually found a good fight...a nice medium size furball between two bases below 10k.It didn't last long because two 51's came in (from over 20k) and nuked the fuel.
Screw fuel porking.I'm glad it's gone in AHII.
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Originally posted by Sox62
So is the HO,but most don't like it either.I won't miss the fuel porking at all.
The other night in pizza,I actually found a good fight...a nice medium size furball between two bases below 10k.It didn't last long because two 51's came in (from over 20k) and nuked the fuel.
Screw fuel porking.I'm glad it's gone in AHII.
So why couldn't you guys protect your base against the 2 51's? Everybody too busy getting to the furball to care until the fuel was gone?
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kj714, I would like to see you catch two P-51s dropping on your field from 20K. By the time you see them, they have dropped and are back at their field drinking coffee. :eek:
Been on the recieving end way to often.
LTARsqrl
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Been flying it a several weeks. The 75% thing is great and the fuel burn makes you think a little, other than that it's no problem.
And I do think both are permanent FDutchmn, although I could be wrong.
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I dont think anything will change the horde attack. Fester's maps were suppose to change all of that and it's the same old thing, you just don't have to fly as far. And as long as the Rooks or Bishops out number by 75-100 people. The steam rolling will just continue.
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
kj714, I would like to see you catch two P-51s dropping on your field from 20K. By the time you see them, they have dropped and are back at their field drinking coffee. :eek:
Been on the recieving end way to often.
LTARsqrl
So you dont wait untill they are droping from 20K. You intercept them en route.
Not hard ta do. All one has to do is pay attention to the map.
Fact of the matter is most people dont bother paying attention to whats inbound untill after their base gets hit or the attackers are so close there is nothing to do to stop it.
I've been stopped plenty of times by folks who decided to grow a brain or gt off their lazy arse and intercept me before I reached their feild
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Originally posted by kj714
So why couldn't you guys protect your base against the 2 51's? Everybody too busy getting to the furball to care until the fuel was gone?
Maybe because we were FIGHTING in the weeds instead of loitering at 25k in 51's.This is the same old argument that fuel porkers use...just protect the base.If someone really wants to pork a base and has the patience to climb to 25k+ and get fast in 51's,there really isn't anyway to stop them.
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
kj714, I would like to see you catch two P-51s dropping on your field from 20K. By the time you see them, they have dropped and are back at their field drinking coffee. :eek:
Been on the recieving end way to often.
LTARsqrl
An LTAR saying he can't shoot a plane outta the sky? Your squad know about this?
:D
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Originally posted by Sox62
Maybe because we were FIGHTING in the weeds instead of loitering at 25k in 51's.This is the same old argument that fuel porkers use...just protect the base.If someone really wants to pork a base and has the patience to climb to 25k+ and get fast in 51's,there really isn't anyway to stop them.
and this is the same argument all the "I just want to fight" guys use. Make my ground assets invincible so I can just fly and not worry about anything else.
Well, the nme is going to try to find some way to shut down the attack from the source, it's part of the game in AH. So now instead of fuel porking, it'll be troop porking.
On the flip side, think how nice it will be to roll into a base, and always have almost full fuel to roll to the next one. The hordes should be smiling from ear to ear right now. Just hotpad that goon if no troops available, everybody pony up a fresh plane, and off we go to the next base. Can't wait to hear the crying around about that.
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So now instead of fuel porking, it'll be troop porking.
The existence or non-existence of troops never did effect the ability to keep my plane flying. Don't see how this will effect it in the future.
On the flip side, think how nice it will be to roll into a base, and always have almost full fuel to roll to the next one. The hordes should be smiling from ear to ear right now.
Yes ... the door swings both ways now ... how nice it will be to be able to face the horde with enough fuel to try and repel it. Sounds refreshing to me.
I am sure all these who profess "its your fault you didn't protect it" are always flying at 15-20K and within a 10-15 mile radius of fields waiting with baited breath to smash the "pork/auger" doodz. The probably like to watch grass grow and paint dry.
I was born in the night ... but it wasn't last night ... Nice try ... :D
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Originally posted by SlapShot
So now instead of fuel porking, it'll be troop porking.
The existence or non-existence of troops never did effect the ability to keep my plane flying. Don't see how this will effect it in the future.
On the flip side, think how nice it will be to roll into a base, and always have almost full fuel to roll to the next one. The hordes should be smiling from ear to ear right now.
Yes ... the door swings both ways now ... how nice it will be to be able to face the horde with enough fuel to try and repel it. Sounds refreshing to me.
I am sure all these who profess "its your fault you didn't protect it" are always flying at 15-20K and within a 10-15 mile radius of fields waiting with baited breath to smash the "pork/auger" doodz. The probably like to watch grass grow and paint dry.
I was born in the night ... but it wasn't last night ... Nice try ... :D
No, not waiting, but I'll normally go to an intercept when I see the red dots coming if I'm able to. Not that I've ever tried to bomb anything with a P51 from 20k either, I think they usually come down a little lower before releasing.
I can't tell ya how many times I've flown into an nme base to take down fuel in a jug at 12 - 15k, dropped down to about 10k nice and slow over the base all the while watching 10 planes take off with me in full view and not one of them ever attempting to engage.
Ah well, chalk one up for the endless furball.
Just out of curiosity, when repelling a horde attack on your base, how much fuel do you take up anyway? Usually for me 25% is plenty for base defense. The best way to stop the horde was to fly into their origin from somewhere else and stomp on their fuel.
But hey, I like to furball too, so no worries!
:D
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Originally posted by Replicant
Whereas I used to pork fuel to stop/slow down the horde! So I guess it works both ways; you can't stop a horde/gangbang attacking you now, whereas porking fuel could make them fight another front and give you some breathing space.
Killing the troop bunkhouses will do the same thing. They can't capture a base if there's no commandos to drop on the map room.
To stop the horde, really, all you would need to do is:
(1) have more player-manned gun emplacements at the bases;
(2) offer more than one calibre of gun for defense (i.e.; have a couple of 30mm, some .50s, some 20mm, each with different rates of fire so a player can use a gun he feels the most comfortable with shooting);
(3) offer player-manned gun emplacements in the town; and
(4) faster re-ups of the manned gun emplacements. I would think a gun emplacement would be repaired faster than a vehicle hangar.
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No, not waiting, but I'll normally go to an intercept when I see the red dots coming if I'm able to. Not that I've ever tried to bomb anything with a P51 from 20k either, I think they usually come down a little lower before releasing.
The key phrase here is "... if I'm able to".
Exactly my point ... with so many bases, most of the time when an "alert" is sounded, there is not enough time to climb out and be effective. The "protect it" crowd makes it sound like all fields should have interceptors on station at 15-20K at all times JUST IN CASE the pork-boyz show up. Not a realistic expectation and not something that I will be doing anytime soon.
I never bomb from any plane at 20K, but if I was in a pony at 20K and put my noze down, nothing short of a 163 or a 262 with some smash will catch me on my run.
You then get to the 5-2K mark ... drop your bomb on the fuel bunker and then go for that perfect 1 point landing after seeing the bunker blow up. Easy to do ... hard to stop.
I can't tell ya how many times I've flown into an nme base to take down fuel in a jug at 12 - 15k, dropped down to about 10k nice and slow over the base all the while watching 10 planes take off with me in full view and not one of them ever attempting to engage.
Key phrase here ... watching 10 planes take off.
Your in a P-47 at 10K with loads of E at your disposal. Why would I want to try and climb to you ? So after climbing like heck to get co-alt with you, I have no E so you rip me apart, or you nose down and get out of Dodge ... No thanks.
Just out of curiosity, when repelling a horde attack on your base, how much fuel do you take up anyway? Usually for me 25% is plenty for base defense. The best way to stop the horde was to fly into their origin from somewhere else and stomp on their fuel.
I up a Spit V with 50%. I am hoping to stay in the air and kill more planes than what 25% will give me.
Yeah ... going to their field and knocking down their fuel will really put an end to any and all fighting. I am here for the fight ... not to prevent it.
<>
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Originally posted by SlapShot
I am here for the fight ... not to prevent it.
<>
heresy!!
burn the heretic!!! buuuuuurrrrn him!
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Originally posted by kj714
Usually for me 25% is plenty for base defense. The best way to stop the horde was to fly into their origin from somewhere else and stomp on their fuel.
That's about 5 minutes at full power for me
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Originally posted by SlapShot
The key phrase here is "... if I'm able to".
Exactly my point ... with so many bases, most of the time when an "alert" is sounded, there is not enough time to climb out and be effective. The "protect it" crowd makes it sound like all fields should have interceptors on station at 15-20K at all times JUST IN CASE the pork-boyz show up. Not a realistic expectation and not something that I will be doing anytime soon.
Geez, if ya look for the red dots you have a few minutes to go after them before they get there.
I never bomb from any plane at 20K, but if I was in a pony at 20K and put my noze down, nothing short of a 163 or a 262 with some smash will catch me on my run.
You then get to the 5-2K mark ... drop your bomb on the fuel bunker and then go for that perfect 1 point landing after seeing the bunker blow up. Easy to do ... hard to stop.
Well, see there ya go, didn't know a pony could dive bomb from 20k to 2k without wing rip. I guess I've never been a "suicide" porker though. I usually drop from high enough to pull up and come back for some vulchy kills or go home. I like to land.
I can't tell ya how many times I've flown into an nme base to take down fuel in a jug at 12 - 15k, dropped down to about 10k nice and slow over the base all the while watching 10 planes take off with me in full view and not one of them ever attempting to engage.
Key phrase here ... watching 10 planes take off.
Your in a P-47 at 10K with loads of E at your disposal. Why would I want to try and climb to you ? So after climbing like heck to get co-alt with you, I have no E so you rip me apart, or you nose down and get out of Dodge ... No thanks..
Once again, starting with little red dots on the screen. If you see a lone dot or two heading into your base from a weird angle, dont'cha think you should check it out?
Just out of curiosity, when repelling a horde attack on your base, how much fuel do you take up anyway? Usually for me 25% is plenty for base defense. The best way to stop the horde was to fly into their origin from somewhere else and stomp on their fuel.
I up a Spit V with 50%. I am hoping to stay in the air and kill more planes than what 25% will give me.
I usually go for the Hurri IIc with 25%. Usually about out of ammo or fuel at about the same time. I'm talking close in base d, though, further out and it's 50%.
Yeah ... going to their field and knocking down their fuel will really put an end to any and all fighting. I am here for the fight ... not to prevent it.
I've always thought stomping the fuel helps put the fight back at their base. Or the horde never truly disperses, it just reforms somewhere else.
<>
<> absolutely!
Didn't you kill me like 5 times in a row the other night? That was funny, plenty of nme in the air, couldn't get away from ya!
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Geez, if ya look for the red dots you have a few minutes to go after them before they get there.
Come on .. be reasonable.
You try to keep track of all red dots on the Pizza map and give me a shout when I should up. I guess I am not doing too good of a job.
Point is, no one can see all things happening on these large maps, so at times (most) when you realize that the group is there (12 miles) out, they are already at 15-20K going 400mph and you won't have enough time to climb out and intercept.
Well, see there ya go, didn't know a pony could dive bomb from 20k to 2k without wing rip. I guess I've never been a "suicide" porker though. I usually drop from high enough to pull up and come back for some vulchy kills or go home. I like to land.
It called a controlled gradual dive with lots of rudder. You must stop pointing your nose straight down from 20K. I have never been a fuel porker either, but I did many a JABO run when I was with the MAW and fuel was never our target.
Once again, starting with little red dots on the screen. If you see a lone dot or two heading into your base from a weird angle, dont'cha think you should check it out?
What is a weird angle in AH, and what would that have to do with it ?
You said that you were perched at 10K over a base in a buzz-saw toothed P-47 and couldn't understand why no one came to kill you ... FROM BELOW.
I gave you my reasons. If I was co-alt or near co-alt, you can bet the house that I would be all over you like flies on ....
I've always thought stomping the fuel helps put the fight back at their base. Or the horde never truly disperses, it just reforms somewhere else.
Remember ... the horde just came to your base and stomped your fuel to 25% and now you stomp their fuel to 25% and the bases are at least a sector apart ... game over ... no more fights.
Didn't you kill me like 5 times in a row the other night? That was funny, plenty of nme in the air, couldn't get away from ya!
Were you flying off a CV ? If so, there were many fun fights. If I shot you down that many times and I didn't throw a <>, I apologize ... so here ya go ... <> and thanks for the fights.
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Originally posted by AKWarp
See, I completely disagree....I think the resource porking is a valid tactic...just as it is in real life. Of course, I see no reference to spawn point camping, which runs rampant in GV situations, but again, just another tactic. It's these various methods that make the game engaging to me. I see a lot of whines about the ability to do this or that, seems to me some folks would prefer no GV's, no fleets, nothing but aircraft so they can play furball all day to their hearts content without ever actually worrying about something as mundane as resources, naval invasions or heaven forbid, ground vehicles!
There are flight sim games out there like that, but this isn't one of them. It's multi-faceted with muliple tactics and methodologies for fighting an enemy. As much as I get friustrated over some things, I for one, hope HT doesn't make some silly changes to slake the whining of a minority few....
WTG Warp. That was well put, and the lure of the Game for me as well. "Fighter Sim Only" types. They haven’t even discovered the Multi facetted game HTC has created. Then of course there are those that just grew weary in the battle and decided to stop playing War and Started playing Fighter Ace instead. Lets face it. WAR is Hell. ie. Playing Aces High to win (reset) the war is HARD. It take's planning, strategey, diplomacey and an attitude of (Roll up the sleves and grind it out) type game play. There is a different lure for all in AH. Well…for now.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
So now instead of fuel porking, it'll be troop porking.
Yes ... the door swings both ways now ... how nice it will be to be able to face the horde with enough fuel to try and repel it. Sounds refreshing to me.
I am sure all these who profess "its your fault you didn't protect it" are always flying at 15-20K and within a 10-15 mile radius of fields waiting with baited breath to smash the "pork/auger" doodz. The probably like to watch grass grow and paint dry.
I was born in the night ... but it wasn't last night ... Nice try ... :D
HAHAHA All the fuel in the world isnt going to help you from the hoard if you cant get up to face them. Oh sure you may get up once or twice but as soon as they reach the feild its all over
No you dont have to wait with baited breath. You just havew to pay attention to whats going on on the map outside of a 2 mile radius.
Its a pretty simple thing to predict what base is gonna be attacked by just watching the map
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Originally posted by gofaster
Killing the troop bunkhouses will do the same thing. They can't capture a base if there's no commandos to drop on the map room.
]
Actually its gonna take more then just killing troops at a base.
You gotta kill troops on several bases.
I've witness some very dedicated rooks think nothing of flying2,3 and sometimes 4 sectors to breing troops in.
But your gonna start seeing more then just barracks killing now. Im betting main target is now going to include the plane hangars.instead of fuel So you cant up at all.
And the only way this is gonna be possable is to do it by hoard.
so. Im afraid the hoards are going to be more prevelent then ever
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Its so simple. all you have to do is worry about your area. look at the surrounding enemy bases. now forget the two bases that are fighting one another. the most damaging attacks rarely come from there. Look at the other bases.
See the red darbar forming? Well they aint upping to put on an arobatic show for the locals. Odds are they are headed someplace to attack it.
Now look at the friendly bases and see which ones are most likely to be the target. head in their general direction and play follow the darbar to determine which way it is headed. It very soon becomes quite obvious what their target base is.
Anmd if by chance you do miss them then simply fly to their base of origin and attack it.
Most of the time if it worked from one base they will try to come from there again
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
Playing Aces High to win (reset) the war is HARD. It take's planning, strategey, diplomacey...
But most importantly it takes NUMBERS.
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Originally posted by jodgi
But most importantly it takes NUMBERS.
And the reason it takes numbers is because STEALTH is disabled in AH. Bardar, flashing map, siren etc. all give the game away long before a threat is imminent. Plus we have the Missun Editor which further extends the AH theme of gangbangery. WB(2) did not have any of those features, and victory was not dependent on numbers, but on organisation and tactics.