Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: kamori on June 01, 2004, 01:08:34 PM
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For thoses who havent seen this in the AHII post. This is directly from HITECH
Kalamori
"To those who think this is a knee jerk reaction. It's not, I wrote the stuff to disable channel 1 on april 13.
We had been planing on disabling channel 1 over the last year. Had AHII not frozen AHI code it would have been implemented in AHI some time ago.
To those who think we do not understand communication in online games, we do. It's was not a simple choice to disable channel 1, Pyro and I have playing online for close to 15 years, we well understand the chat roll/fun of channel 1.
As AH has evolved and grown some problems have changed the game dynamics. When we had 300 people in an arena the world was small enof where peer pressure and us getting involved could keep the down side of channel 1 in check. Now with 700 online, people start to feel anonymous and feel they have rights to abuse things.
2. The volumn of trafic has changed and starts to become overwhellming. Anyone rember when I removed kill messages and changed them to end of sortie only? This was also to dimisish text trafic.
So the sky is not falling, We just decided the the detriments of channel 1 outwighed the advantages.
1 thing we might implement is a .s GameId command, this would then brodcast GameId over channel 1 even with it disabled.
HiTech "
[/B]
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So, isn't a Kamori a Japanese goldfish but Kalamori is a squid? Hmmm...
I think the " GameId " feature is a great idea, it might be kinda weird seeing notheing bu t salutes on Ch1 though. It would be cool if you could have it auto-insert the last person who you shot down of were shot down by as well. As long as the " enter" were hit within say 10 seconds or so. But that may not be as simple as it sounds for the programmer types :D
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Nice removing CH1 :aok
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Blah
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I assume Private channels will still work cross-country. If the fight was all that great, I've been taking the time to PM my
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-Sik
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If that is the case they have to implement the .
command. That is the one thing I missed was not being able to salute a guy for a good fight.
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one of the best features in AH2 IMO
the would be nice but it goes unsaid anyways
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I think this change will cause people to not fly as high. I know the only thing that keeps me sane while alting up to 30k to meet Bishop Niki's and Spits co-alt is sparking some kind of lively inter-country banter on channel 1. Maybe without all of the political/religious/racial watermelon chat, people will get bored and just head straight and level for the nearest fight....:aok
Zazen
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No its not a Koi....Kamori is manufactuer of Printing Presses..
Yes Kalamori is a Sqid...:)
Kalamori
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Nice improvment, the .s would be nice but a PM works just fine.
shamus
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Originally posted by Zazen13
I think this change will cause people to not fly as high. I know the only thing that keeps me sane while alting up to 30k to meet Bishop Niki's and Spits co-alt is sparking some kind of lively inter-country banter on channel 1. Maybe without all of the political/religious/racial watermelon chat, people will get bored and just head straight and level for the nearest fight....:aok
Zazen
Chan 200 is the "unofficial" replacement for Chan 1.
You just have to TUNE to it each time.
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Raw deal.
I respect HTC and the staff who run the company so I trust in them and their decisions.
I do beleive we lose out though. And the lack of moderators had alot to do with it
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
Raw deal.
...
I do beleive we lose out though. And the lack of moderators had alot to do with it
lack of moderators?
no maybe an overabundance of players with immature minds with zero self control
how about self-moderators? what a concept :rolleyes:
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I agree with Morpheus when he says, I respect HTC and the staff who run the company so I trust in them and their decisions.
I can understand the reason behind it but just moving it to another channel '200' kinda defeats the purpose. It's still the same thing just a different channel. Only difference is the newbies will be completely lost until they hear about channel 200.
The command is cool but I (and I doubt others) won't waste a radio channel to tune to 1 just for salutes. This needs to go directly to the player or over ch 200. My $.02
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Originally posted by GA
Nice removing CH1 :aok
actually from what hitech said he just disabled it, not completly removed it. wich means there is some kind of switch somewhere that enables and disables it, wich is good news if a different arena wanted to have it enabled for some reason or another...
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Originally posted by Eagler
lack of moderators?
no maybe an overabundance of players with immature minds with zero self control
how about self-moderators? what a concept :rolleyes:
True. But with the server warning you and the mods there to keep things under contol. The MA was kept quite "clean".
We all slip up and let things get the better of us. I dont think I've ever not seen a "regular" MA player not say something on Ch1.
There was nothing wrong with the Mods, and they kept the "mood" of the MA somewhat civil. As soon as they left, the arguments on Ch1 just took a whole new form and there was no one there to tell people to cool it.
I dont think its really a matter of having imature players. I do agree that there are some. Goofing around and joking around on Ch1 is far apart from just being plain old rude and out of line. But I dont think there is an over load of imature players.
What I do think is that there is a lack of people/mods keeping everyone in check.
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I agree with Morph completely... because we have a few inconsiderate people who act like 12 year olds, the rest of us are puinished.
I have a few people I enjoy catching up with even tho they are on the other side, this just ruined a big portion of the game for me. Alot of have been complaining about the degrading community and instead of adding more moderators to clean it up, they encourage the decline by dividing the community by 3.
I can't understand this decision for the life of me, makes no sense.
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I have a few people I enjoy catching up with even tho they are on the other side, this just ruined a big portion of the game for me. Alot of have been complaining about the degrading community and instead of adding more moderators to clean it up, they encourage the decline by dividing the community by 3.
Del, not one person could have said it better.
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
Del, not one person could have said it better.
I'm gonna disagree. You can always tune channel 200 and HiTech says he plans to add the .S command.
So, all you have to do is tune 200 or simply type .S "player name" to send a to that person.
That's adequate for me.
My regards,
Widewing
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I will miss seeing some folks throwing out
s as
they log on. It is always fun catching up with old
acquantices.
I think all this is going to do is move the crap to
country channel - which we can't squelch.
Sorry HTC - but I disagree with you on this one.
Sour
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Originally posted by jordi
You just have to TUNE to it each time.
Nope, once it's tuned (in place of ch 1?) it stays there unless of course you tune something else..... but it does not need doing each time you log in. :)
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Originally posted by vorticon
actually from what hitech said he just disabled it, not completly removed it. wich means there is some kind of switch somewhere that enables and disables it,
Yes it's an arena setting - have a look offline. :)
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Originally posted by Widewing
I'm gonna disagree. You can always tune channel 200 and HiTech says he plans to add the .S command.
So, all you have to do is tune 200 or simply type .S "player name" to send a to that person.
That's adequate for me.
My regards,
Widewing
So now I have to wonder if he or she is tuned to Ch200 for text.
With all due respect to HTC. They took something that was simple and made it more difficult. MEANING...
If you didnt like CH1 SHUT IT OFF!
If you wanted to talk to others you didnt have to go through the trouble of tuning privatly.
We had moderators but they were done away with.
With the mods (that were taken out of the game for what ever reason) they would mute you if you got out of line.
If you abused ANY text chan the mod would first warn you and then if you continued you would be muted.
Why fix something when its not broke?
(sure we needed mods again, but thats not as drastic as taking Ch1 completely out of the game)... Quick Fix? If it was a quick fix we wouldnt be here talking about it.
There are plenty of people who play this game who could suit the needs and qualifications of and as a moderator. PLENTY...
I am sorry I just disagree with the logic they are using.
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Looking at this in a positive...
During Scenarios, It would be handy to flip CH1 off at Start Frame and then flip it back on at End Frame. This would prevent a few screwups and would still allow the salutes and such at the end of the day.
In the MA, I dont think it will matter too much, I have a feeling 200 will become the channel for all those that enjoy cross country chat.
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My squaddies and I are using 200 as the "NEW channel 1"....
Cya there!:)
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I'm afraid it all comes down to a liability issue. If channel 200 requires that you manually tune in a radio channel to hear the pablum, as opposed to channel 1 being there automagically (and seeing things flow accross the screen before you can squelch it) was the key. People can and will sue over just about anything these days.
I'm thinking it might have made more sense to just have the default behavior of channel 1 be "disabled" and the player would have to turn it on each time they logged into the arena. That should have negated the legal exposure since anyone who saw offensive things on the radio buffer would have chosen to see it by tuning in that channel. We might even see a disclaimer window requiring the player to say "yes" where it says "you may find the following offensive".
I think Shakespeare was right about the lawyers though.
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I'm thinking it might have made more sense to just have the default behavior of channel 1 be "disabled" and the player would have to turn it on each time they logged into the arena.
I first suggested this in the Beta Forum. It received zero response from any of the staff at HTC.
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Maby a unofficial site can do the job. Something like roger wilco but
in text format.
I explain, the real problem is a lot of bla bla and the loss of badwidth, so if ch1 goes in another site then the badwidth problem goes to the players connection and let the AH connection clean for the game data.
We only need a little change in the code to let a second text window open inside the game.
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"Raw deal. "
"If you didnt like CH1 SHUT IT OFF!
If you wanted to talk to others you didnt have to go through the trouble of tuning privatly. "
If like like intercountry banter, tune to it! You only have to do it once, whereas the rest of us have lived with squelching every time we log in.
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CH 1 was available tonight in Beta... unfortunately a lot of immature folk were ready to test the extent of HTC’s patience.
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Originally posted by HUN
CH 1 was available tonight in Beta... unfortunately a lot of immature folk were ready to test the extent of HTC’s patience.
Not sure if this has anything to do with it, but remember the AH2 beta where typing text slowed down the game and your framerate. Maybe, there is some issue such as bandwidth or server load that makes lessening the textual diahhrea overall a boon for the game's performance. Especially, if, as HTC hopes, the player population continues to expand. Just a shot in the dark, but possible.
Zazen
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I won't miss it one bit, tired of the childish immature and offensive attitude of allot of people towards others. I often squelch ch1 have done for years but every now and then I leave it open just to see what's going on and often it's just "loser" or "FU".
If there was a poll I'd vote for it to be closed tomorrow. Glad HT have realised that.
One particular muppet today on AH2 was and often is the most immature and offensive that I know of and reason enough for HT to close it down.
Guess some people will now have to take out their immature anger at getting shot down or what ever on the dog or something.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by HUN
CH 1 was available tonight in Beta... unfortunately a lot of immature folk were ready to test the extent of HTC’s patience.
yep, was sorry to see it back up
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I like it!:)
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Community is what makes AH what it is. Having a common channel by default in arena serves to build community.
Yeah, AH is a flight sim. But so is Il2, EAW, yada yada. There's a difference. We just happen to be a community that likes to fly. But, that's not the most critical factor in making AH what it is. There's something much more important.
Community.
There's a certain subset of the community that participates in forums like this, and thus can communicate regardless of country affiliations and radio channel restrictions. But even their ability to form relationships is restricted by the loss of channel one. Their interactions in the game and the ease with which they can communicate about them are restricted by this, and thus the ease with which relationships are built.
Think carefully here. How many people in this game that you normally fly *against* do you know well? How much does that add to the flavor of your time online?
How likely is it you would have built those relationships if their planes had always been anonymous, identified only by type?
How much do we all lose if we don't form those relationships?
Yes I realize that some relationships are contentious, and that strife on common channel is part of the result. There is even the factor of the griefers who use a common channel to piss everyone off as much as possible.
But, those things are things that are part of what makes a community a community. We learn each other's nature and personality in seeing the ways we each react to, participate in, or even ignore such negative things. The fact that our virtual community mirrors the real world in the inclusion of all facets of online life is what makes it vital.
I'm not gonna let this turn me sour in my relationship toward HTC. As HiTech said, he and Pyro have been around a long time (their online roots come from the same place mine do, as a matter of fact). Their experience is longer than mine. I respect that, and the fact that this is their house.
But, all due respect granted, I believe this is a very serious mistake, for the sake of the community.
FWIW, IMHnsdweebO.
culero
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Community....
A bit like a local pub.
I see a lot of posts saying in effect "Just ignore it!"
Well... If I go to a local pub and some fool is stood on a soap box spouting offensive rubbish; then I might indeed ignore it; once. The second time I'd probably try and have the fool silenced; but if he's still there being obnoxious the third time; it's very unlikely I'll go there again. Why should I?
And this is the position HTC is in: That of the pub landlord.
But Channel 1 is only part of the problem; one has always been able to squelch it. Far worse in my eyes is range vox. I HATE IT! and always have.
And if Channel 1 has gone the way of the Dodo; one can only pray range vox, that most dubious of game "improvements", is somewhere very close behind.
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IMO the community will still grow (more so now IMO), there will still be plenty of player interaction online and this draconian measure will benefit AH quite a bit.
I still think an automatic arena feature that muted someone after 25 (or some decent #) players have squelched him/her to be a better option. They would remain that way until they submit an apology to HTC and request for "parole."
I imagine that is open to abuse but I've not seen any seriously sound proposals on how to deal with the current state of channel 1. Telling people to squelch channel 1 if they don't like it is not "cleaning up" the arena.
But as Seeker poiinted out range VOX will still a problem and IMO so is the lack of a permanent squelch feature. Some players just "chat" too much (vox and text wise) and while they may not be vulgar, crass or jeuvinile I just don't want to have to read thier constant chit-chat or perpetual issuance of marching orders and thier version of a winning "stategery."
And I've always failed to see the benefit to having the clubhouse be the same as the playing court. In other words "fight" online but hold your chit-chat for the boards.
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lack of action breeds chat.
lazs
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Originally posted by Seeker
But Channel 1 is only part of the problem; one has always been able to squelch it. Far worse in my eyes is range vox. I HATE IT! and always have.
AMEN BROTHER!
The non-stop blather on Range obliterates squad channel. If Range were kept "tactical" it'd be one thing but not being able to squelch the latest tales of derring-do in the three-year-old daughters ballet class is truly irritating.
Yeah, we blather on squad channel too. But it's a CHOICE. Range ISN'T a choice and it needs to be made into a choice.
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And, as usual, Laz goes right to the heart of the matter.
You can't type much when you're fighting, can you? :)
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Originally posted by Seeker
But Channel 1 is only part of the problem; one has always been able to squelch it. Far worse in my eyes is range vox. I HATE IT! and always have.
And if Channel 1 has gone the way of the Dodo; one can only pray range vox, that most dubious of game "improvements", is somewhere very close behind.
I really like having range vox available to me. I can give 6 calls faster and more accurately with it. It is particularly enjoyable when there not many of my squaddies around. The problem with range vox though is my inability to .squelch certain offenders.
As serious of a legal concern as channel 1 may be to HTC I can only imagine the apopleptic shock that range vox could cause to the easilly offended, or the very young, or the very old. I can no longer play this game with my speakers turned up, and that really sucks since I have the 5.1 Klipsch setup. I have heard things said on range vox that would make a sailor blush. If they said the same thing on channel1 my youngest child (who may be playing on his computer next to me) would not read it, nor would the wife-ack come down the hall to see WTF was going on. As things are there needs to be some restraints put on those who cannot use vox without self-restraint.
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yep, was sorry to see it back up
THEN SHUT IF OFF.
What is so hard about that? I mean really?
Look kids. That burner on the stove is RED HOT. I know that if I touch it I will get a very bad burn. I know this because its RED HOT. So you touch it anyways. And you end up getting burnt.
Whose fault is that?
I have spent at the most, 10 minuets tops since Ch1 was taken out of the game. If I am going to play beta and not talk to anyone then I may as well play off line. I enjoy the interation between players whom I've developed a "friendship" with if you will. And I didnt have to worry if they were tuned to this new Ch200 that's been designated as the "all" channel.
As I said a week ago now, if anything needs changing with Ch1 it should be that its off by default when you enter the game. And those who are mature enough to carry a normal conversation and act like human beings, can turn it on. Those who are not, can feel the wraith of the moderators. The moderators that NEED to be implemented mind you.
This way those poor little tender players who can't stand the sight of Ch1 for those few short moments as they are logging in, dont have to see it at all.
For those of you who think this imature garbage will stop in the game because Ch1 is gone think again. When AH2 goes into the final version and AH1 is gone. These people will come in force. These are the people who need to infest Channel 1 with obscenities. They are going to get bored now that they have no Ch1, they are going to need to talk, to type, to bother someone. The crap is going to cary over to Ch2 YOUR country Channel. They wont shut up because their countrymen tell them to. They wouldn't stop on Ch1, so why would they stop now simply because they have one less Channel to do it on? They wont, and I can guarantee it.
There is only one way to deal with this. Its nothing new, its nothing drastic. Implement moderators back into the game.
Like I said before, there are many people who would meet the qualifications as a moderator. Many who are there to have a good time, know when enough is enough and thing have gone too far.
Hitech, I implore you to please find moderators again for the game. They did a fine job in the past. And I guarantee they will do a fine job to police the activities of players in Ah2.
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Originally posted by Toad
And, as usual, Laz goes right to the heart of the matter.
You can't type much when you're fighting, can you? :)
No he can't, he's too busy trying to steal my kills. ;)
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Elbert do you know about the .vsquelch command?
HiTech
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They are going to get bored now that they have no Ch1, they are going to need to talk, to type, to bother someone. The crap is going to cary over to Ch2 YOUR country Channel. They wont shut up because their countrymen tell them to. They wouldn't stop on Ch1, so why would they stop now simply because they have one less Channel to do it on? They wont, and I can guarantee it.
Morph,
The peer pressure within your own country has much more of an effect that across country lines. If they have no means to rant at the person they just had a fight with and won/lost, then they simply wont rant. They will probably vent and yell at their kids, wife, girlfriend, and like Nopoop, maybe kick their dog.
If HT were to assigned MORE moderators then CH 1 could be viable again, in my eyes, but if not, then get rid of it and tune to Ch 200.
Hey ... don't you have a greater cause at hand ... like saving Zion !!! :D
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No kidding .vsquelch will squelch vox for certailn members?
Whoooo Hooooo good bye constant Little Napoleaon updates. "Some one get this", "you guys climb high", "whos got that", "why don't these guys kill the carrier, all they want to do is fight", "Whaaaaaaaaaaaa".
I can't wait to try this!!!!!!! I must admit it was worse with knights. Sorry guys you know who they are.
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If HT were to assigned MORE moderators then CH 1 could be viable again, in my eyes, but if not, then get rid of it and tune to Ch 200.
Yup, just talked to HiTech about it and he explained to me what he was tyring to accomplish in getting rid of Ch1 and going to something like Ch200.
I must admit he made complete sense as I figured he would.
I do beleive we need more mods in the game though. I think that no matter what, people will always need "watching over". No one is perfect, everyone slips up. We just need someone to be able to remind them that they are playing a game and must not abuse their privilages. If they do so they will be taken away.
Morph.
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Looks like channel one is up again in AH2
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Originally posted by mojo55
Looks like channel one is up again in AH2
Good! I'd rather squelch the channel than have to squelch every person I don't want to get garbage from. I was afraid that we would now have three country channels with crap on them. Actually squelching chan 1 is the first thing I do when i log in. Otherwise I can hardly read the messages that i need to (country, room, mission etc)
Pillur
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Originally posted by Delirium
I agree with Morph completely... because we have a few inconsiderate people who act like 12 year olds, the rest of us are puinished.
I have a few people I enjoy catching up with even tho they are on the other side, this just ruined a big portion of the game for me. Alot of have been complaining about the degrading community and instead of adding more moderators to clean it up, they encourage the decline by dividing the community by 3.
I can't understand this decision for the life of me, makes no sense.
This bites, I can no longer harass Neckbone, LTARprts, Shane, Silat, Dantoo and countless others, including entire USMC squad (USgrim, etc).
I'd just like to thank all of the teenagers who made this possible.:rolleyes:
<> HTC, you saw fit to implement change, I stand by that.
Karaya
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
Yup, just talked to HiTech about it and he explained to me what he was tyring to accomplish in getting rid of Ch1 and going to something like Ch200.
I must admit he made complete sense as I figured he would.
I do beleive we need more mods in the game though. I think that no matter what, people will always need "watching over". No one is perfect, everyone slips up. We just need someone to be able to remind them that they are playing a game and must not abuse their privilages. If they do so they will be taken away.
Morph.
SWEET !!! ... then it's on to Zion my friend ... YOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!
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Thats it Slapshot!!! DA! NOw!:mad:
:p :lol
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
Thats it Slapshot!!! DA! NOw!:mad:
:p :lol
Not if your gonna fly the Nebuchadnezzar !!!
No thanks ... Every time I get behind you you push that damn EMP button and I drop from the sky like a rock.
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I have no axe to grind about Ch1. I have often squelched it. I'd rather it stayed because then I would be able to choose when it was there and when it wasn't, without having that choice made for me.
I first heard about this change about 2 days ago from Havoc. See my sig. for a classic quote. :lol
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Not if your gonna fly the Nebuchadnezzar !!!
LOL wtf!
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
LOL wtf!
Geeesh ... you don't know the name of the ship that Morpheus captains ?
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>>People can and will sue over just about anything these days.<<
Well here's the problem. If you take measures that would lead any reasonable adult to believe the language/content will be safe for children and it isn't, you in fact create MORE liability. I doubt seriously it would float in court as the internet is still considered uncensored. But trying to sell a watered down, non offensive form of the internet could involve one in even more litigation if negligence is proven in delivering that "watered down, child-safe" product. The absolute minimum liability is providing the internet as is, making no claims to filter it or make it safe for children
As far as sue happy people - do you honestly believe they would be at a loss for reasons to sue if ch1 is removed?
The problem is people can sue with no fear of frivilous law suits costing them money. Tort reform - you lose - you *PAY*
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I never have squelched a player or a channel. I was never bothered by what anyone said on CV1, as long as they were not cussing or belittleing someone.
I'm not the world's fastest typest....I will hardly ever look up the correct spelling for someone's ID, type that into the channel box and talk to them in private......I type too slow. On channel 1, I could just say a quick "nice shot" or even and "lol" after I'm shot down.
I will miss not having it available. One of the best things channel1 is good for is telling everyone where you are flying so they can come try and kill ya ( in my case, I die very easily). Or, asking a quick question on channel1 almost always gets a helpful answer.
HiTech, I guess you thought a lot about it, but it does seem like a harsh thing to remove ch1 entirely.
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Man i understand why but thats half the fun egging the other side on :( so i guess ill give evryone a big S!!!!!!!!!!!!! now =[
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I don't like the idea of killing channel 1. If people can't handle the chatter, they should just tune out. The rest of the community should be able to communicate and enjoy the bantering during those long flights.
HT, please add a .f GameId feature, too. just needs to be said now and then. ;)
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Originally posted by hitech
Elbert do you know about the .vsquelch command?
HiTech
Nope, guilty as charged. I WILL be making use of this neat little feature!
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Originally posted by tatertot
Man i understand why but thats half the fun egging the other side on :( so i guess ill give evryone a big S!!!!!!!!!!!!! now =[
Tater ... the "fun egging" is not the cause. It's the foul-mouthed trash/smack talkers that have caused this action.
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I was called Mommy last night for asking someone to chill on Ch1. I couldn't beleive we had it back. What a difference in the mood. It felt much less "confined" in there with it on. But I also couldnt beleive that a few select lamers were talking smack like they were. Just stfu if you have nothing good to say in there. Its friggin beta guys. Nothing "counts". But then again, nothing really "counts" in AH1 either LOL. So git a lifey!
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I slept on the idea of no open/channel 1 last night, and I still think it's a bad idea to disable it. I don't use ch. 1 very often, but I can't believe that we're forced to talk with only 1/3 of the community (our countrymen) while we're logged on.
:(
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great, even less to do when flying at 19k in my lancs........or flying to the closest 50mile base on pizza...woopieeee
i might start reading books during my "transfer" time from base to target
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Originally posted by kamori
For thoses who havent seen this in the AHII post. This is directly from HITECH
Kalamori
NEAT!!! AH is about to undergo a significant lowering of the "Hi, I'm a boob" syndrome.
T.