Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lazs2 on June 02, 2004, 08:06:52 AM
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The rook horde gameplay has moved over to beta. Not one fight on the map that isn't a horde...
They seem content to fly great distances in large numbers only to maybe kill one or two players and then circle endlessly hoping someone will up for them fight over.
If a decent fight breaks out somewhere else with even 3 v 5 or so... the call for help goes out and a dozen more rook army ants appear before the sortie is over..
If more of the enemy shows up so that the fight gets big and fairly even... rooks send suicide porkers and then...
wonder why there is no action.
lazs
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good ,your pissed too.
I guess it's the payback for Knight behaviour when I was online last night ?
btw I think I never seen so many SpitXIV ,F4U-4 ,Tempest flying :)
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I think it is simply a result of the way strat is set up. Like minded people all seem to congregate eventually and that is the case with the rookies... the "strat" allows for that behavuior.
It took a little longer but... The MA established the pattern and now it happens when only 60 people are on.. this destroys the theory that the horde mentality is a result of large numbers of players and newbies in the MA.
The rooks doing it aren't newbies and there aren't large numbers in the beta.
fields that are far away from each other and take for ever to fall are the cause... people are afraid to go the distance by themselves or with a couple of guys because by the time they get there there is 20 guys waiting for em so... they rook out and don't go anywhere in less than the dozens.
rooks are by no means the only ones that do it but having switched around countries in betta I will say that they do it the most instictively. It is like a reflex to em.
rewarding resets and far fields and and fields that can be wrecked but are hard to capture... all things that contribute IMO.
lazs
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I agree , during 1st week the number were up in the beta it was fight fight and fight. and more than often people augered when out of ammo just to comme back and have fun.
Now some MA mentality is present with player in perk planes running to their ack at the 1st sight of a combat.
IMO it's not relative to the country ,distance or strat it's only related to their ego ,incompetence and lameness.
And btw my country is not rook ,my country is my squad which happen to be rook currently (and sadly)
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straffo... I disagree.. people are people... it is the adapting to the situation that is the thing.
We have adapted to "missunz" and "score" and "winning the war" and the far fields and the difficult to take but easy to make useless fields and fragile CV's.
When the fields are close and score is not important there is a lot of action. Action means that the wussie guys can be ignored. Lack of action breeds caution.
those best suited to lack of action tend to flock together just as those who like action tend to.
lazs
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Im still trying to figure out they are capturing bases and porking fields in BETA. These fools will be surprised when they find out there arent any perk points for reset. But hey they are testing the frame rates for massive horde attacks is the excuse
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I have flown for all countries on the Beta Arena and the common denominator for all is to "gang". No one country corners the market on that.
Not only is the "gang" mentallity apparent, but the HO mentallity is also there in strength, along with the timidity factor.
Lazs ... wish you had tried AH II in the early stages, we had some pretty good nights where it was understood that HOs and ganging weren't the norm. If you saw 2 planes engaged, you basically just watched till the end.
We did have one serious furball night between a base and a CV, and the furball was pretty well balanced, so watching 1 v 1 engagements was off. Lev showed up for that one ... it was great fun.
Last few nights I have gone to the Beta Arena and got tired of getting HOed by Temps, so I left ... and probably won't really go back until its made "live".
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Dam strait Slap,
Early on there was a decorum, albeit some still did not follow but most did. It is still there to some degree but the MA mentality has infiltrated and taken it's toll.
I will still jump in now and again, especially when maps like Pizza are up in MA, but it does get old quick when people are not there to fight.
I noticed last time that alot of people were running. It's a friggn BETA potato peeling fight!!!!!!!
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I prefer not to HO, but when pressed will shoot to kill !!:mad:
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hmm - well I normally fly Rook, because that's what my old squad flew back in 2000 (417 RCAF - now defunct in AH). When I go in AH2beta I look for red dots. There are usually very few on the current map within reasonable range of rook territory. That's what I head for - as simple as that. Often other rooks will up for the same destination, but that is because those are the only cons visible on the radar. With the new fuel rules you can't 'pork' an airfield in the same way anymore, anyway. I, and most other people I see respect one-on-one fights, although I will attempt to rescue a country man I see being chased. Sometimes I switch to another country if the numbers are unbalanced. I think that the current map has had some affect on the nature of play in the AH2 beta, though, and the fights are much fewer and farther between. In the previous map I had repeated 'jousts' with several fine Knight pilots that were tons of fun (
Vic ) - we kept meeting as if by agreement between certain airfields and duking it out. Gave us all a chance to sort out gunnery in AH2. There really are some great folks flying in that arena.
Lazs - what is the proposed politically correct behaviour for players in the AH2 beta arena? How do we avoid 'hording'?
- Twang
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Why don't you stick to the AH1 arena? Haven't the new maps brought you the anticipated nirvana you were expecting?
MiniD
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The rook horde, fbtttttttttt!
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Slapshot,
sounds almost like what soured me to the beta arena. I was doing the ignore engaged fights and kept scanning for an oportunity where the numbers were close.
Found a lower Tempest. I dove in for a pass, only to have to Tempest go nose low and run from my Hellcat. I chased him a while to see if he would rev. at like 4K away. I broke off.
I spotted a Spit a bit higher, but I wanted a fight so I tried to engage. Sure enough as soon as I was engaged with the Spit the Tempest comes back. So, Now Im dodging both and trying to get an angle on either.
Then I notice a couple 262s in the area swooping around trying to blind side guys.
Well, I got a chance at the spit in a climb, It isnt long before a Jet or the Temp (not really sure) blind sides me with a quick snapshot.
Hey its there nickle, but since its all perk rides, I figure Ill just wait till they straighten it out and it goes live.
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There is an other way to look at it... If Hitech thought this was a problem, certainly he would have done something about it. Just because it might seem incomprehensible doesn't mean it isn't working as intended. Maybe just perception, but stuff like this has been an increasing part of Aces High for a while now.
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Switched to bish last night upon logging in due to the numbers. This is probably only the fourth time I've been in the AH2 arena ever (been too busy with moving to do much of anything), and I've noticed that trend. Bunch of ppl go and attack a field, very few ppl up to defend - those that do go down fairly quickly. Up from another field to try and get a fight going, but halfway there that first field gets captured and all the attackers land... then attack another field in another quadrant. Quickest way to get there is to auger and try to get there in time before they capture
another field.
On another note, I think I'll learn to fly the Tempest.
mauser
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1 vs 1? who said anything about 1 vs 1? I like 5 v 3 or 8 vs 7 from either side..
What I don't like is 20 attacking a field of 3 defenders and simply B & Z ing or if a decent fight starts the MA mentality kicks in and one side launches 10 more planes to "help" or sinks the CV to "help" because everyone knows that 'real' war was allways lopsided..
zanth.. yu are no doubt right. it is probly good for business.. lot of new guys taking comfort in risk free behavior and fooling themselves into thinking they are "contributing" or learning.
The old style of player who paid $2 an hour or more is no longer with us... they felt cheated if there was nothing to do for 5-10 minutes and took getting shot down as a sign that they needed to get into more fights to get better ... not, get into less fights so they wouldn't die as often.
lazs
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It would be nice if the perk rides were disabled, but I guess it's hard to test them when they can't be flown.
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Hence the reason I'm starting a grass-roots effort to
(1) add more player-manned acks at airfields.
(2) offer a variety of calibres for player-manned acks at airfields.
(3) offer player-manned acks at the cities.
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When AHII goes live, some of this will be sorted out. LW planes will again be perked, reducing the tendency for some to risk what are, for some, hard-earned perk points.
I would like to see more ack positions added to the fields, so that setting up a field for a vulch-fest would be harder to do.
Shuckins/Leggern
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Originally posted by lazs2
1 vs 1? who said anything about 1 vs 1? I like 5 v 3 or 8 vs 7 from either side..
What I don't like is 20 attacking a field of 3 defenders and simply B & Z ing or if a decent fight starts the MA mentality kicks in and one side launches 10 more planes to "help" or sinks the CV to "help" because everyone knows that 'real' war was allways lopsided..
zanth.. yu are no doubt right. it is probly good for business.. lot of new guys taking comfort in risk free behavior and fooling themselves into thinking they are "contributing" or learning.
The old style of player who paid $2 an hour or more is no longer with us... they felt cheated if there was nothing to do for 5-10 minutes and took getting shot down as a sign that they needed to get into more fights to get better ... not, get into less fights so they wouldn't die as often.
lazs
Are missions enabled in AH2? You know that's what gets it (the horde thingy) going. Personally, I avoid missions for the most part, it's usually a lot of flying and no real action. But I've seen some who will get started in a mission and fly it forever until it finally runs out.
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I played AH2 all this weekend .....
seems there's a shift....was doin alot of defence vs. nits north and alot of defence vs. rooks south....
actually was fun being outnumbered....been awhile....sharpens the reflexes....
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When its temp after temp after temp your fighting or perhaps i should say fighting a furball of temps with the odd 109 or spit XIV thrown in its boring and like pissing up wind.
Kinda hard to get the enthusiasm to go back in.
The AH2 "golden era" of actually having good fights against people who dont want or need a perkie or gang crutch has sadly passed away.
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I'm with ya gofaster,
I think the distinction between manned and AI acks should be lost.
All ack should be manable and if no one is in it the AI should take over.
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A lot of the times, guilty as charged. I've personally been jumping countries to try and help even out the situations, asking and recommending fellow Rooks to follow but *shrug* they just won't listen.
However, don't take all of the accusations literally boys.
Because from what I've seen, the 'vocal' have a way of jumping into a disadvantaged situation like moth to a flame. When they live through it they mock the enemies. When they die because of the stupid actions, then they mock the enemies. Geez, no way to please them, is there?
I've seen also many cases, despite overall equal numbers of players, the numbers between two forces differ to various reasons. They go voluntarily smack their heads against numerous enemies, and then they start blaming the other side for their sorry demise - when actually the reason why they couldn't have the same number of planes in the area, was because their own buddies were busy gangbanging the third country.
So let's quit the holier-than-thou business. Getting tired of people getting mad at the other side for their stupid actions. Maybe it's the wonderful "charm" and "attitude" you guys do not hesitate to display on Channel 1, which makes people think twice before jumping countries. I know I sure wouldn't want to jump countries to go help a pottymouth.
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Originally posted by 214thCavalier
When its temp after temp after temp your fighting or perhaps i should say fighting a furball of temps with the odd 109 or spit XIV thrown in its boring and like pissing up wind.
Kinda hard to get the enthusiasm to go back in.
The AH2 "golden era" of actually having good fights against people who dont want or need a perkie or gang crutch has sadly passed away.
Well it's turned exactly the same in off-peak as well.
What they don't seem to understand is how much you can learn/improve by fighting rather than running.
The guys that flew CK/wb beta or AH beta got to fight and die thousands of times without caring about score or points etc
That experience was invaluable to anyone who went through it. So now today people have exactly the same opportunity . Take your favourite plane , and launch in to furballs/situations against planes you would perhaps normally avoid , and try your best to kill people and survive. ( for some people this is just normal anyway - so ignore this paragraph :) )
While doing this you learn more about what you and your plane can or cannot do than flying around cherrypicking or hording.
But what do they do - grab a tempest and fly around Bnz from 20 K in a group , and then run to the ack as soon as they don't like the look of the situation (ie someone as got within 2K of them)
Cracks me up, what a waste of an opportunity
Redd
P.S. and on another topic - I seem to be able to fight nikis more effectively in AH2 (in F6-f) . Am I just imagining this ?
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Originally posted by Redd
P.S. and on another topic - I seem to be able to fight nikis more effectively in AH2 (in F6-f) . Am I just imagining this ?
wait till Taki and his Niki dweeb horde comes in...then you will know:aok
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10 commandments of Beta
Thou shall switch countries to even thy hords
Thou shall not covet thy neighbors kill
Thou shall not HO thy enemy
Thou Shall not park thy tiger on thy enemies airfield
Thou shall not spawn camp thy enemy
Thou shall fly the way thy neighbor wishes
Thou shall only engage thy enemy when odds are even
Thou shall not pork thy enemies fuel
Thou shall not Dis thy enemy on text
Thou shall not incessantly whine on Range channel at thy neighbor for any reason period..
IKON
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People have been practicing running and ganging and base-porking for 2+ years now.....
Why would the arrival of a new graphics engine make it any different?
The arrival of TOD *may* have some kind of impact on the gameplay, it will take the emphasis off of base-porking as a means of "winning" I think. Probably won't put the emphasis back on fighting, since only the player-base can do that, but time will tell.
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Urchin, your sig makes me want to find the highest bridge and, jump off it.
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Yea, me too.
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In the last week I've been jumping countries just to find a fight, two weeks ago they were everywhere.
I've killed more spit 14's in the last week than anything else. The "last" good fight was a few nights ago with a bunch of old codgers on both sides meeting in the middle. It was a blast.
If a short span of time can be a generation, the old generation that has it's roots in the mid to late nineties were fighters. Those still around for the most part still are.
That is some way has been lost with the new generation of junkie. There's a few that break the mold, but they are a few. Too bad.
But what can you do.
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Fighting must be banned from the game! Its toooooo dangerous!:p
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You failed to follow at least six of those rules you Hypocrite:rolleyes: For Shame For Shame:rolleyes:
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I dunno about the apparent horde you speak of - but I see an overabundance of Tempests, F4U4's, 262's and dear god - think of any other perk plane to replace the LA5's and LA7's.
But frankly, I don't give a hooting hell if you think its a horde or if yr trying to take off from a vultched field - were still in beta, were trying to figure out things that are new - and if that means 15 vs 1, so be it. Deal with it.
My 2 cents.
Wolfala
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Prefered earlier versions of Beta....we dint need no stinking perk planes....we dint need no HOs....we just fought till the wings came off.....fuel ran out.....and the ammo was depleted.
We did the same testing without the traveling horde.
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Originally posted by Wolfala
But frankly, I don't give a hooting hell if you think its a horde or if yr trying to take off from a vultched field - were still in beta, were trying to figure out things that are new - and if that means 15 vs 1, so be it. Deal with it.
My 2 cents.
Wolfala
Spoken like one of the 15, er... rookie, er... cherrypicking 38. :lol
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So, who were the prettythanghats that destroyed the FHs of the Rook frontline bases today, in the heat of a large furball where the numbers were evenly matched?
You still think "your guys" are holier than us?
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Originally posted by DipStick
Spoken like one of the 15, er... rookie, er... cherrypicking 38. :lol
Oh you know thats not fair - we wailed on each other 3 times in a row....granted you died on those occasions, but it was a fair matchup.... :)
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Originally posted by doobs
You failed to follow at least six of those rules you Hypocrite:rolleyes: For Shame For Shame:rolleyes:
Yeah "My bad" I admit I broke at least 6 of the commandments, but in my defence I was having fun and lost control of my evil twin and let the fun ruin the experience for me...
I will in the future endeavor to play in a way that pleases the enemy and forget about my selfish personel feelings.
IKON
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Lazs,
You act like you're surprised. Nearly a year ago, I posted a thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94174) in which I expressed grave doubts about AH2-TOD. The suicide smashdown/steamroller/horde culture was already firmly established by then. I had no need to comment on AH2 Classic because I knew it would be exactly the same as AH1. Why shouldn't it be? How would new graphics and a new flight model change that? Am I the only one who realises that pretty graphics is a great concept, but WON'T improve gameplay? You need look no further than WB3 to see how that ended up. But your considered response to my concerns in that thread was "I don't see what any of this has to do with AH2 tho except that AH2 should make things better.... those who like strat (milkruns and suicide attention grabbing) will go to TOD. There will be room to make the MA more fight friendly and, as mars points out, we will be getting some graphics and FM changes."
And Rude added "Premature postulation.....all will be good."
And Mars01 enthused thus: "The important thing to remember is the MA will get a new FM engine and much better graphics. Whoooo hooooo!!!!"
Lazs, I disagree with what you said back then about milkrunners and suiciders gravitating towards TOD. They won't. TOD will be a much more controlled environment, where uppage is going to be mission dependent. You won't just be able to mouseclick your way into a formation of suicide LANCs, or a P51 pork-n-auger horde. That's what the steamroller missun doodz want to be able to do and that's why they'll go to AH2 Classic, which is currently the beta version and the subject of your post.
And that's why the AH2 beta gameplay has been carried over from AH1.
More than two years ago, I saw the direction in which this mess was headed, and made two suggestions in this (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52208) thread. But as I predicted at the time, nothing was changed. Some even laughed at my suggestions and, more particularly, the reasons for making them. They're not laughing now.
The mess we have now is why I'm holding out for TOD. Without that, AH2 gameplay is going to be exactly as it was in AH1, with a slightly different set of gamey tricks.
Don't say I didn't warn you.
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kwe... What I am talking about is 3 guys getting a fight started and fighting five defenders from a CV in this case... Lots of fun but... There is so little in the way of fights that rooks (but all countries do it) see a very small red bar and think... "gee if we up here we will have an advantage" so 10 of em up to "help" the 5.
What we were laughing about in the above case is that we killed the 5 and then a couple more of the horde lemmings and then we were completely out of ammo... every one of us far from our CV.. we were continuing to "fight" by frieghtening off the horde without bullets... we all decided to auger at the same time. When we upped again.... we had become the new rook "hotsot" of activity... a dozen guys waiting for us to up... It was laughable.
I'm sure our country was doing the same thing somewhere else.. pretty much, everyone was hiding under their bunks waiting for a small red bar to attack with a large one
beetle... this is a beta.. I simply figured that people would have fun since their is no score... that is not the case. As you have pointed out, the horde mentality is set in form years of bizzare strat.
The only cure for the MA is closer fields (3/4 sector max) and no reset points and fields that are captured as soon as they are mostly down.
an early war area of these huge bloated maps is long overdue also
lazs
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"But frankly, I don't give a hooting hell if you think its a horde or if yr trying to take off from a vultched field - were still in beta, were trying to figure out things that are new - and if that means 15 vs 1, so be it. Deal with it. " What things are that? Vulch practice? Definitely a rook quote lol :P I upped a zeke on a vulched field just to see how long the four vulchers would hang around and kill me. After 4 agonizing gang vulches, I came back in F4u4 from cv...they were still in circle pattern over field 15 minutes later! Ahem....(pistols)...well.. pistols ran away to land his glorious vulch kills but i waxed the other 3 promptly. Yes Ah2 ma is in full effect.
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I simply figured that people would have fun since their is no score... that is not the case.
My thoughts exactly. Planes are free, no ego-score to be found, yet most are still afraid to die.
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Originally posted by lazs2
beetle... this is a beta.. I simply figured that people would have fun since their is no score... that is not the case. As you have pointed out, the horde mentality is set in form years of bizzare strat.
The only cure for the MA is closer fields (3/4 sector max) and no reset points and fields that are captured as soon as they are mostly down.
I think you're making a mistake if you think the strat causes the hordes. The steamroller doodz are just opportunist lamers who want nothing more than to pummel a fire button, and make stuff go BOOM. Above all, they want instant gratification - something which is made all the more plausible by moving the fields too close together. They won't want to wait in the tower for an organised mission to occur. They won't want to be told what plane they have to fly - all of which, incidentally, is how it was in WW2.
If the choice is between TOD and Classic, I'll choose TOD. My guess is that the steamroller drivers will head to Classic. Looks like you'll be stuck with them.
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No one dies FASTER and BEttererer in AH2 than ME! I do it better than ALl of you! muahah
Edit: though it was funny as all heck to see a Ki61 so afraid to die that he was BnZ'n like he was in a 262. Lazs saw it too and everytime he would make a pass we'd go..."here he comes again"
What was even more funny about this was the fact that his every pass was horrible!! and he was spraying like Skyztzophranik Cherry picking altmonkey on crack! :D
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I don't really think anyone is complaining about being outnumbered. Two or three to one is going to happen...to everyone...when you're tooling around looking for a dogfight. If you engage an enemy pilot another nimrod is oftentimes going to show up...that's the nature of the game.
I think the main complaint here is about the situation in which one country is outnumbered by another to the tune of three to one...and massive missions of thirty aircraft form a conga line to pound the few remaining bases. These are the situations where people logging on to the side which already has overwhelming numbers refuse to switch to even things up. Plenty of these pilots are unaffiliated with any squad and could make the change, but will not. It's easier and easier to pad your scores under these circumstances.
Admittedly, I've been guilty of it too. But I can't say I've been logged on at any time when the knights enjoyed overwhelming numbers.
Doesn't do any good to complain about it constantly because I don't think there are any changes to the game that would make a great deal of difference. I'm learning to quit carping and start looking for less crowded skies if they are available.
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Switched to bishop from rooks the other night to help the numbers problem, what did I find? 2/3 the bishops in the south were in the tower whining about how "bad" the hording was. Found a good fight in the north, switched to knights and had a blast til I had to leave. Hording ain't the real problem, the real problem is the way some supposedly senior people in the game are handling it. To paraphrase:
"Waaaah! I want my furball and I want it my way and I want it now! And unless your skills are up to mine don't bother 'cause I'll just club you like a baby seal and insult you for an hour afterward. And if I don't get what I want when I want it I'm gonna sit in the tower and pout and tell all you lamers just how lame you really are." :rolleyes:
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As was said before, and you still don't get Beet, is that closer bases allows a better defense against the hordes.
When you can hit the hordes from multiple fields it breaks them up and splinters the group.
Yes the object of the horde the one base gets pummeled, but with closer bases I can up and get to the horde before they have any chance to totally over take the base.
In your loved maps where the bases are a sector or more apart the horde has free rein to overtake base after base after base because you can not up a plane from another field in a timely manor to do defend.
BTW - what was you point with
And Mars01 enthused thus: "The important thing to remember is the MA will get a new FM engine and much better graphics. Whoooo hooooo!!!!"
This is the important thing to remember. The FM is much better and the graphics increase the immersion factor. Bottom line. If you think that doesn't matter than why would anyone move from the old wire frame crap that we had in Jet, the first MSFS or AOP?
The radish mentality is a result of the community and persons skill level and will to survive. When people don't have a lot of skill they will flock to the hordes and run from fights and always need to fly with an advantage. You can understand that last part.;)
The strat plays a part in it because if all people had to do was fight that’s all they would do and some would get better. But with the strat all they have to do is bomb tool sheds and take bases. Fighting is an after thought.
The AHII beta started with people that just wanted to fight, now the tool shed heroes have invaded and instead of fights we have chases. Last night the rooks had some well positioned carriers for some good furballs and the knights killed the carriers. Then took a port that had no defense and no airfields close enough to make the flight worth while. Wake me when its over please!!!! If the bases were closer we would have better fights. Fester has made this message clear. Unfortunately it has fallen on def ears and is ignored by the blind.
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Originally posted by mars01
As was said before and you still don't get Beet is that closer bases allows a better defense against the hordes.
When you can hit the hordes from multiple fields it breaks them up and splinters the group.
Yup, the scatter effect. The horde will also probably diffuse itself with more available targets within a certain area.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Lazs,
You act like you're surprised. Nearly a year ago, I posted a thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94174) in which I expressed grave doubts about AH2-TOD. The suicide smashdown/steamroller/horde culture was already firmly established by then. I had no need to comment on AH2 Classic because I knew it would be exactly the same as AH1. Why shouldn't it be? How would new graphics and a new flight model change that? Am I the only one who realises that pretty graphics is a great concept, but WON'T improve gameplay? You need look no further than WB3 to see how that ended up. But your considered response to my concerns in that thread was "I don't see what any of this has to do with AH2 tho except that AH2 should make things better.... those who like strat (milkruns and suicide attention grabbing) will go to TOD. There will be room to make the MA more fight friendly and, as mars points out, we will be getting some graphics and FM changes."
And Rude added "Premature postulation.....all will be good."
And Mars01 enthused thus: "The important thing to remember is the MA will get a new FM engine and much better graphics. Whoooo hooooo!!!!"
Lazs, I disagree with what you said back then about milkrunners and suiciders gravitating towards TOD. They won't. TOD will be a much more controlled environment, where uppage is going to be mission dependent. You won't just be able to mouseclick your way into a formation of suicide LANCs, or a P51 pork-n-auger horde. That's what the steamroller missun doodz want to be able to do and that's why they'll go to AH2 Classic, which is currently the beta version and the subject of your post.
And that's why the AH2 beta gameplay has been carried over from AH1.
More than two years ago, I saw the direction in which this mess was headed, and made two suggestions in this (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52208) thread. But as I predicted at the time, nothing was changed. Some even laughed at my suggestions and, more particularly, the reasons for making them. They're not laughing now.
The mess we have now is why I'm holding out for TOD. Without that, AH2 gameplay is going to be exactly as it was in AH1, with a slightly different set of gamey tricks.
Don't say I didn't warn you.
You will now be considered the sage of Aces High ... you must now change your handle to ... Nostradamus ... or maybe Miss Cleo.
Yeah ... MsCleo ... I like it !!!
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I don't really care about TOD except that it will be a place for those with a high boredom tyhreshold and walter mitty personalities to congregate and fly "realisticly"
That will be good if it means they don't use the MA and.......
And that the MA gets away from score and capture as it's reason for being... The reason the MA needs to exist is for fighting... the strat should be only to facilitate the fighting... Anything else should be covered by the CT or TOD but...
As we have seen... often, the CT with it's low numbers becomes a really good furball between two close bases (or CV/CV's) and the strat potatos and sky accountants are ridiculed.
lazs
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Originally posted by mars01
As was said before, and you still don't get Beet, is that closer bases allows a better defense against the hordes.
It's not that I don't "get it". I simply don't agree with you. The very first time Fester's first map was deployed, it was Vulchville. This is the important thing to remember. The FM is much better and the graphics increase the immersion factor. Bottom line. If you think that doesn't matter than why would anyone move from the old wire frame crap that we had in Jet, the first MSFS or AOP?
I didn't say that updated graphics was not significant. But it is like a different dressing on the same old boring salad. In my view, deployment of TOD is much more significant than new graphics/flight models. Face it - right now in the MA, the gameplay sucks - for all the reasons being discussed in this thread. Eye candy is not going to fix that, so AH2 gameplay is going to suck just as much as the AH1 gameplay sucks - as some of you are just now beginning to realise. Looking for immersion? Me too. And in real WW2, folks flew what they were told to fly and did not whine. TOD will mirror that to some degree. Actual missions with actual goals. MiniD said it best. And that's the kind of immersion I seek. What's the use of having pretty graphics if the gameplay in progress resembles Quake with wings? because you can not up a plane from another field in a timely manor to do defend.
That style of defence has always made me cringe. Why not up from the base being attacked? If it's immersion you want, well that's what they had to do in WW2. There are plenty of warnings about an impending attack. You could try heeding those warnings. But no. Much easier to up an LA7 from next door. Immersion you say? LOL
Lazs said I don't really care about TOD except that it will be a place for those with a high boredom tyhreshold and walter mitty personalities to congregate and fly "realisticly"
That will be good if it means they don't use the MA and.......
I don't think you mean that. The people of whom you speak so disdainfully in that first para are not the ones spoiling your fun in the AH1 MA or the AH2 beta. The people who go to TOD will be looking for a WW2 simulation driven by a purpose. It's the missun doodz and steamrollerz that are spoiling your fun, and I guarantee that they will head straight for AH2 Classic. Which is where you will be. I think you deserve each other. :lol
Slapshot! Who was MsCleo?! I like it. I'll get on to Skuzzy to have my ID changed. :)
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Originally posted by lazs2
The reason the MA needs to exist is for fighting...
lazs
thats your vision of what the MA should be....
mindless furballs all day long.....there's a DA for that.....and a CT
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Slapshot! Who was MsCleo?! I like it. I'll get on to Skuzzy to have my ID changed.
She was a sweet-heart with her fake Jamaican accent.
"A sassy self-proclaimed psychic, Miss Cleo was the star of late-night TV infomercials in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Claiming to be a mystical shaman from Jamaica, Miss Cleo urged viewers to phone a "900" telephone number where they would pay by the minute to have their fortunes read. Miss Cleo became a jokey pop culture icon much like an earlier psychic promoter, Dionne Warwick. In 2002 the South Florida Sun-Sentinel reported that Florida officials had uncovered a birth certificate showing that Miss Cleo was in reality Youree Dell Harris, an American born in Los Angeles in 1962."
The people who go to TOD will be looking for a WW2 simulation driven by a purpose. It's the missun doodz and steamrollerz that are spoiling your fun, and I guarantee that they will head straight for AH2 Classic.
TOD will be nothing BUT missions, so it would be safe to say that the missun doodz will gravitate to TOD. It's the mission doodz that create the horde/steamroller, so again, chances are, they will be in TOD also.
Fingers crossed !!!
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Originally posted by SlapShot
TOD will be nothing BUT missions, so it would be safe to say that the missun doodz will gravitate to TOD. It's the mission doodz that create the horde/steamroller, so again, chances are, they will be in TOD also.
I don't agree, but time will tell. Don't be surprised to see me hot linking to this thread in 2006/2007. I believe that the Missun Doodz are only missun doodz because they can fly what they want, when they want, attack en masse and see lots of stuff go BOOM. The Missun Editor merely facilitates their purpose of going mobhanded on a lemming raid. What they actually do is hardly what I'd call well thought out - just up, fly dive, release bombs and auger, rinse, repeat... That's the difference between missions and missuns. TOD will be all missions. Classic will be missuns, and maybe the odd furball here and there flown by crusty old farts like us, harking back to the good old days of being able to keep a Spit V in a 6G turn and being able to do it while the pilot is blacked out.
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Originally posted by beet1e
I don't agree, but time will tell. Don't be surprised to see me hot linking to this thread in 2006/2007. I believe that the Missun Doodz are only missun doodz because they can fly what they want, when they want, attack en masse and see lots of stuff go BOOM. The Missun Editor merely facilitates their purpose of going mobhanded on a lemming raid. What they actually do is hardly what I'd call well thought out - just up, fly dive, release bombs and auger, rinse, repeat... That's the difference between missions and missuns. TOD will be all missions. Classic will be missuns, and maybe the odd furball here and there flown by crusty old farts like us, harking back to the good old days of being able to keep a Spit V in a 6G turn and being able to do it while the pilot is blacked out.
Is this another prediction Miss Cleo ? ... ;)
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Is this another prediction Miss Cleo ? ... ;)
Yes, and so far, my crystal ball has served me well! :p OK, the last part was tongue in cheek. ;)
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Eye candy is not going to fix that, so AH2 game play is going to suck just as much as the AH1 game play sucks - as some of you are just now beginning to realize. Looking for immersion? Me too. And in real WW2, folks flew what they were told to fly and did not whine. TOD will mirror that to some degree. Actual missions with actual goals. MiniD said it best. And that's the kind of immersion I seek. What's the use of having pretty graphics if the game play in progress resembles Quake with wings?
Never Said Eye Candy was going to fix the game play. I simply stated that the new FM and graphics engine were the key concepts to AHII until TOD.
It's not that I don't "get it". I simply don't agree with you. The very first time Fester's first map was deployed, it was Vulchville.
What is vulchville. And no you don't get it. Your game play style in not furballing so how could you get it?
MiniD said it best. And that's the kind of immersion I seek. What's the use of having pretty graphics if the game play in progress resembles Quake with wings?
The whole quake with wings analogy is weak at best. Please describe what you would accept as the perfect MA game play.
That style of defense has always made me cringe. Why not up from the base being attacked? If it's immersion you want, well that's what they had to do in WW2. There are plenty of warnings about an impending attack. You could try heeding those warnings. But no. Much easier to up an LA7 from next door. Immersion you say? LOL
You have no idea Beet. Ok so you cry about the hordes. So if a horde has made it to the base how are you supposed to up and defend it?
Please respond with the kind of base defense you prefer?
I am not trying to play like they fought in WWII. I want to fight in the planes of WWII. That is the immersion factor I am looking for. The WWII style of fighting is probably what you would like the most. Up a plane maybe find the enemy maybe not, maybe get into a fight maybe not. Boring !!!!!!
You have no life so you could spend all your time barely fighting, I have few precious hours to play so I would like to be fighting most of the time.
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Mars01! How nice to see you. :) It's been a while... :D
You have no idea Beet. Ok so you cry about the hordes. So if a horde has made it to the base how are you supposed to up and defend it?
Please respond with the kind of base defense you prefer?
Well, you could try paying attention to the numerous warnings - flashing map, radar, bardar etc., and take action BEFORE the horde arrives instead of waiting until AFTER they are already there to get off your butts.
On Wednesday, there was a CV attacking our shoreline. I upped a 109F4 and fought a few off. We did well, and were able to repulse the attack. But you know me. I don't like the "grab-the-best-plane-for-the-job" approach, though admittedly I fly CHogs off the CV if I know that ju88/LANC formations are expected. But even a 1D can kill an entire formation quite easily. But the "grab-an-LA7" panacea of all woes is pitiful.You have no life so you could spend all your time barely fighting, I have few precious hours to play so I would like to be fighting most of the time.
Bollocks. I just checked the score pages, and you spend far, far more online time in AH than I do. I went back 12 months, and the only tour in which I was online more than you was T49 - and only 2 hours more. You were online 137 hours in T45 against my 26, and 143 hours in T41 against my 50. 143 hours is almost SIX DAYS, or 20% of the entire month!! :eek: So don't give me that "I'm so-short-of-time-that-I-need-the-bases-closer-together" crap. In many a tour, your online time exceeds 100 hours. You're a 3-4 hours a day man. "Few precious hours" my arse. :rolleyes:
There now follows an 8-hour period of toodle-pippage.
(http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_11_5.gif)
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You too.
Well, you could try paying attention to the numerous warnings - flashing map, radar, bardar etc., and take action BEFORE the horde arrives instead of waiting until AFTER they are already there to get off your butts.
You make it sound like if I upped in time I could meed the horde head on and then all would be fine. Yeah you meet the horde head on kill a few then die in an 8 on 1. By the time you make it back to the tower the horde is on your base. Now what smart guy? So all your BS watching darbars etc is bullocks. Like you are the only one who is smart enuff to figure this out. What a joke. :lol
On Wednesday, there was a CV attacking our shoreline. I upped a 109F4 and fought a few off. We did well, and were able to repulse the attack.
Uhh then it wasn't a horde. You see that's what I mean you can't tell a horde from a furball :lol.
But you know me. I don't like the "grab-the-best-plane-for-the-job" approach, though admittedly I fly CHogs off the CV if I know that ju88/LANC formations are expected. But even a 1D can kill an entire formation quite easily. But the "grab-an-LA7" panacea of all woes is pitiful.
Who the hell is talking about an LA7 quit crying about what other people fly all this last quote is, is you beating your chest. Quit wallowing in your own admiration. Don't you get tired of patting yourself on the back all the time. lolh.
So don't give me that "I'm so-short-of-time-that-I-need-the-bases-closer-together" crap. In many a tour, your online time exceeds 100 hours. You're a 3-4 hours a day man. "Few precious hours" my arse.
As for checking my hours on line, ( thats what I mean by you have no life lolh ) you'll notice roughly since Nov I have averaged about 40hrs a tour. This is in no way some exhorbinant amount of time online. So yes I do have a few precious 40 hours a month that I can fly and I don't want to spend them causually flying around not finding any fights.
Also so what you are saying if people do have all the time in the world they should still be forced to fly for hours not seeing an enemy. Give me a break. You cry about the hordes so remendy them move the bases closer.
And as usual you did not answer one of my questions...
1) Please describe what you would accept as the perfect MA game play.
2) Please respond with the kind of base defense you prefer, in context with my other post please.
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Originally posted by Redd
Take your favourite plane , and launch in to furballs/situations against planes you would perhaps normally avoid , and try your best to kill people and survive
Redd
And you die. That's what the problem is, you die. BUT, without scores....NO ONE ELSE WILL KNOW !!
A PERFECT OPPORTUNITY !!
Get in over your head, way too deep and work it. It's a great opportunity in beta for those that are "concerned" about scores to expand their experience in air to air combat.
Go by the tried and true axiom. "Bite off more than you can chew"
What I find flabergasting is that with the lack of "score" old habits do not change.
I had a Spit 14 and a Spit come over me high, whilst I be cruisin along by myself the other night in beta. They both made passes and the Spit 14 wanted to play and I killed him.
..the other hung around for awhile and made timid passes ..above..during the fight..and then LEFT..
WHY ???
Have a fight, take a chance, have some fun, learn something, kill my soggy butt, most do, but for the love of Cod PLAY for cripes sakes.
There's NO score !! WHERE FLYING AIRCRAFT WITH GUNS HERE !!
What did he save from "extending" ?? What fun did he have "extending" ?? What did he learn by "extending" ??
Did he land the sortie and write home to his sweetheart. "One mission today my love. I flew around, saw a fight..but..I couldn't...I landed."
Beet I know you agree with me here on this particular point "bro"..
( African American derived slang meaning "bud" "homey" "friend" "compadre")
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Amen! Preach it brother nopoop.
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ahhh... AH going right where I thought it would... :D
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Mars01!
You make it sound like if I upped in time I could meed the horde head on and then all would be fine. Yeah you meet the horde head on kill a few then die in an 8 on 1. By the time you make it back to the tower the horde is on your base. Now what smart guy? So all your BS watching darbars etc is bullocks. Like you are the only one who is smart enuff to figure this out. What a joke.
No, I didn't say go against the horde singlehanded. You're in an active squad. Get together with some mates and go together. You might have to fly above 2K though, and I can see how that might stick in the craw. ;):lol Uhh then it wasn't a horde. You see that's what I mean you can't tell a horde from a furball
At least I know the difference between 8K and 20K. :lol The point was not the size of the incoming force, but how we defended against it, which was by upping off the base under attack. No time to defend by taking off from one base further back. I fought back with the other guys - killed a few, died a few, but we DID succeed in thwarting the capture. As for checking my hours on line, ( thats what I mean by you have no life lolh )
Oh sure, took me all of 5 minutes. I realise that if YOU had a spare 5 minutes, you might spend it upping an LA7, seeking out a couple of defenceless goons, and RTBing to land your kills. And as usual you did not answer one of my questions...
1) Please describe what you would accept as the perfect MA game play.
2) Please respond with the kind of base defense you prefer, in context with my other post please.
The only reason you want me to say what gameplay I like is so you can rubbish it. I have already made suggestions. With the AH customer base as big as it is now, I'd say we don't need bardar and Missun Editor. I'd like to see stealth attacks made possible. Fly under 500ft without activating bardar or flashing map. Right now, that kind of attack is not possible, so the issue is decided by NUMBERS.
I like gameplay/combat which has a purpose. I'm not interested in duelling - there's a separate arena for that. OK, capture the flag isn't much but it's all we've got for now. Maybe that will change with TOD.
Above all, I like gameplay to be a team effort. I remember one particular sortie in which the knits were pushing to our base on the pizza map - lots of incoming buffs. I got up in a 109G2 and was killing buff formations, died a few times, but we pushed back the attack to the area between the bases, and then all the way back to the knit base. As I recall, the numbers were balanced with about 10 on each side at the knit base. So, by your own definition, this does not constitute a horde. So please tell me what YOU would have done in that situation: Would you have upped a fighter to repel the incoming attack? Just curious.
You're still my favourite maroon. ;)
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No, I didn't say go against the horde single handed.
When your the only guy on in the sqd at the time, and most of your country is not going to sacrifice their score for multiple trips into seemingly insurmountable odds, you are going against the hordes relatively single handedly. You can keep dreaming that you can recruit but its not really the way it happens. Next time tho I'll definitely check to see if your on and see how quick you are to jump in.;)
At least I know the difference between 8K and 20K.
You should you spend most of your time up there.:lol
You might have to fly above 2K though, and I can see how that might stick in the craw.
Aint that the truth. I love the guys that climb to 15k or better and at the first sign of a fight dive to the deck. What’s the point lolh.:lol
The point was not the size of the incoming force, but how we defended against it, which was by upping off the base under attack. No time to defend by taking off from one base further back.
Exactly a perfect bad example, off topic, out of context as usual. The context and topic was smash down/steamroller/horde "The suicide smashdown/steamroller/horde culture was already firmly established by then. I had no need to comment on AH2 Classic because I knew it would be exactly the same as AH1." so why in gods name would you mention some normal game play defense shifty? "No time to defend by taking off from one base further back" Exactly cause its pizza and the fields are too far apart.
The only reason you want me to say what game play I like is so you can rubbish it.
Since when are you afraid of being rubbished? But no, you state how "That style of defence has always made me cringe." What, upping from another base? I can understand why you would cringe, on your beloved maps because the bases are too far apart. If the fields were closer together upping from another field would not be so bad. As it is on maps like pizza upping from another base to defend a different one does suck!
Above all, I like game play to be a team effort. I remember one particular sortie in which the knits were pushing to our base on the pizza map - lots of incoming buffs. I got up in a 109G2 and was killing buff formations, died a few times, but we pushed back the attack to the area between the bases, and then all the way back to the knit base. As I recall, the numbers were balanced with about 10 on each side at the knit base. So, by your own definition, this does not constitute a horde. So please tell me what YOU would have done in that situation: Would you have upped a fighter to repel the incoming attack? Just curious.
"lots of incoming buffs. I got up in a 109G2 and was killing buff formations, died a few times," Sounds like your analogy for Quake with wings. Hmmm maybe that analogy is stupid. Sounds like some decent action to me. Is the 109G2 not a fighter? Depends on my mood what I would up. I can kill buffs with anything, personally the bigger the guns the faster the ride the better so either a 190 or chog. I also like the challenge killing buffs with a 51.
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well... nothing is absolute.. found a quiet little corner far enough from rooks and had a good night of bish vs night mid war plane fights with math karnak and co.
hard to believe tho... a few rooks cam in high in perk planes (big surprise eh?) but died real easy when two planes went after em and they foolishly decided to fight.
What is needed is closer fields and the late war planes out of the arena or in a seperate area. That is probly the only way to get good gameplay.
lazs
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beetle... you are not the only one to not be surprised by that....How could the gameplay be different?
You are the one who said the gameplay would be different with the new gunnery and FM..
I knew the gameplay would be the same when it was RELEASED to the unwashed masses but...
What surprised most of us was that BETA gameplay is the way it is... people usually have fun in a beta.
lazs
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Mars01
When your the only guy on in the sqd at the time, and most of your country is not going to sacrifice their score for multiple trips into seemingly insurmountable odds, you are going against the hordes relatively single handedly. You can keep dreaming that you can recruit but its not really the way it happens. Next time tho I'll definitely check to see if your on and see how quick you are to jump in.
If you ARE the only one, then how is having another base close by going to help you?
I have always thought that if base A is under attack from base B, that it's a cop-out to mount the defence from base C. Still some folks just have to fly with an advantage. I can see why you like the fields nice and close. :lol I *LIKE* pizza because it does away with all that nonsense. You can push back an advance, but you have to do it from the base under attack. But by the same token, the opposition cannot sneak in from a third base somewhere - a popular option with the L-Gay boys who have just been killed. We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, Mars. You have your preference and I have mine. But mine is closer to the way it was in WW2. "lots of incoming buffs. I got up in a 109G2 and was killing buff formations, died a few times," Sounds like your analogy for Quake with wings. Hmmm maybe that analogy is stupid. Sounds like some decent action to me. Is the 109G2 not a fighter? Depends on my mood what I would up. I can kill buffs with anything, personally the bigger the guns the faster the ride the better so either a 190 or chog. I also like the challenge killing buffs with a 51.
Well the P51 would be a good buff killer, but I don't fly the EasyMode™ übertrio subset, so it's not an option for me. The F4U couldn't climb as quickly as I needed, so I used a 109G2. The difficulty there is that you have to get very close - well within buff ack range, and deflection shots are not much of an option.
OK, so we stopped the knit advance and pushed it back. If you had been a knit at that time, with even rook/knit numbers at your base, on the pizza map, what would you have done to repel the rook advance?
Lazs said "You are the one who said the gameplay would be different with the new gunnery and FM.. " This is the second time you've misquoted me on this. I said no such thing. I said the gameplay pattern might be different, now that some of the old AH1 gamey tricks are not going to work. But it's still going to be the same old suicide pork 'n' auger...
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Footnote - if the Beta36 change to alter fuel porkability such that it can never be porked below 75%, the pork 'n' auger guys might have to rethink their tactics, and exploit some other game feature.
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beetle... if I am misquoting you then you must admit that you are misquoting allmost everyone else... You claim that you were the only one to see that the gameplay would be the same...
This is far from true. No one that I am aware of felt that the gameplay in the released AH2 MA would be any different..
What people are surprised at is the fact that gameplay is so bad in a BETA.
lazs
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If you ARE the only one, then how is having another base close by going to help you?
Talkin to the Rock again. If bases are close together it allows more people shorter flights to the horde from different points. I noticed that when there is only one base and the next closest is a sector or more away, less people opt to up, plain and simple.
I have always thought that if base A is under attack from base B, that it's a cop-out to mount the defense from base C
That is crazy, so what now every base is supposedly an island of its own. So why don't we just have one field for each country. :rolleyes:
But mine is closer to the way it was in WW2.
Yeah because we all know that in WWII there were no fields that supported each other and that planes never took off to defend another field. Do you even listen to yourself.
Still some folks just have to fly with an advantage.
How is upping from another base giving some great advantage. The attackers are most times always higher. What a joke. It allows people to up period, when the horde reaches the base there is no upping. That is the point we are discussing.
Well the P51 would be a good buff killer, but I don't fly the EasyMode™ übertrio subset
You are such a weenie, with your self back patting and down grading of planes that you deem un worthy. Keep that crap to yourself, no one cares. Like your 109G2 takes any more skill to fly than a 51. Quit deluding yourself.
OK, so we stopped the knit advance and pushed it back. If you had been a knit at that time, with even rook/knit numbers at your base, on the pizza map, what would you have done to repel the rook advance?
What are you asking? I wouldn't be doing anything, bomber support is boring at best, I'm looking for fights. As for killing bombers, I don't climb to god awful heights, if they aren't under 10k I don't go after them.
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Originally posted by beet1e
...I have always thought that if base A is under attack from base B, that it's a cop-out to mount the defence from base C...
what???
That's about dumb.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Yes, and so far, my crystal ball has served me well! :p OK, the last part was tongue in cheek. ;)
I sort of agree with beetle, the missun doodz like to roll missunz in full view of everybody. It's an MA thing for sure. What fun would it be to roll missunz in an area with people flying missions?
I think one of the big attractions of missunz is if you place yourself in the crowd in the right place you get a few E mode vulch kills with little chance of being shot down yourself. The TOD won't really have this aspect? But, I'm not a missun dood, so it's mostly conjecture on my part.
"What people are surprised at is the fact that gameplay is so bad in a BETA. "
lazs
checked out AH2 last night <> warboid, booga, etc..
COULD NOT believe someone downed the FH's at 22? when everybody was flying out of there to meet nme coming from 25!
That kinda killed the whole deal for a while. :mad:
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COULD NOT believe someone downed the FH's at 22? when everybody was flying out of there to meet nme coming from 25!
Yep it's that kind of weenery that has reuined the beta arena.
Thank God it's going live next week, (Fingers Crossed!!!!)
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Yeah, the bombing of the FH at 22 rather ended what had been a fun fight. Oh well, life goes on.
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COULD NOT believe someone downed the FH's at 22? when everybody was flying out of there to meet nme coming from 25!
kj ... come on ... you have been around long enough to believe this ... ;)
Then again, maybe ou haven't been around long enough.
The are two major goals in AH ...
Do everything within your powers to spoil anyone elses enjoyment of AH ... see your story for a prime example.
Do everything within your powers to create a situation where you don't have to fight, else you might .... oh this is painfull ... you might .... help me here ... you might DIE ... there I said it.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
COULD NOT believe someone downed the FH's at 22? when everybody was flying out of there to meet nme coming from 25!
kj ... come on ... you have been around long enough to believe this ... ;)
Then again, maybe ou haven't been around long enough.
The are two major goals in AH ...
Do everything within your powers to spoil anyone elses enjoyment of AH ... see your story for a prime example.
Do everything within your powers to create a situation where you don't have to fight, else you might .... oh this is painfull ... you might .... help me here ... you might DIE ... there I said it.
I've been around long enough..... but it was so......pointless.
Oh yeah, who was it last nite that said they had Shane locked in the trunk of their car? Did the cops find him yet?
That was a ROFLMAO for sure.
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I've been around long enough..... but it was so......pointless.
I know ... I was just kiddin with ya.
Griefers thrive on pointlessness.
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Originally posted by Wolfala
I dunno about the apparent horde you speak of - but I see an overabundance of Tempests, F4U4's, 262's and dear god - think of any other perk plane to replace the LA5's and LA7's
I'm probably one of those F4U-4's you speak of, but I fly em in AH1, too. Most dolts don't have the balls to risk blowing 60 perks a ride on it in the MA, so they're geeked at flyin em on the cheap...
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Yeah Red I can't imagine anyone would cry about seeing an F4U4. If anything it's marinally better than a 51 in most hands.
I love the F4U4 - I fly it some in the MA - but it sucks because once someone sees that tag, you can count on every con in eye shot dropping everything and comming after you.
As for the perks with a total of a measly 6k I could care less how many I lose hahhaha.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
The are two major goals in AH ...
Do everything within your powers to spoil anyone elses enjoyment of AH ... see your story for a prime example.
Do everything within your powers to create a situation where you don't have to fight, else you might .... oh this is painfull ... you might .... help me here ... you might DIE ... there I said it.
1- ya kill em all....not the easy way....but bring your squad with ya....then let the whining begin....a la Shane
2- do not mistake some1 flyin and using his brains.....not everyone is there to engage in mindless furballs
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I find myself agreeing with lazs more and more, and that scares me!
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do not mistake some1 flyin and using his brains.....not everyone is there to engage in mindless furballs
So what is mindless about a furball?
What is the max extension before you are running and not using brains?
I find myself agreeing with lazs more and more, and that scares me!
Heheheh yeah thats where it starts lol
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I had a ton of fun getting kills in the Spit MkI and Hurri MkI last night too. Those planes are just UBER!!
A to name, good fight there in the Hurricane II. How many .303 slugs did you find loose in the cockit anyway? I know it took about 1200 rounds to kill ya. :)
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do not mistake some1 flyin and using his brains.....not everyone is there to engage in mindless furballs
Never have mistaken those that fly and use their brains. They typically use their grey matter to engage in a fight and hoping to win. I was referring to those who are afraid to use their brains and at the same time are afraid to ... here we go again ... DIE.
The "mindless" won't survive very long in a furball, so you need a new adjective to accompany "furball".
:D
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well I will turn 2 or 3 times vs. a spit in my Pony or Tif....then I will extend and see if I can come back.....
some call that running...some call it using gray matter....as you so eloquently put it....
jumping into a furball.....90% die.....get picked off...or get jumped even before you do furball....hence the mindless
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BEER
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Hordes - if you hate them, then fight them. I've had some exciting flights attempting to counter hordes by upping a fast plane like my fav p51B, getting some alt and speed, and then harrassing the heck out of the flight path between the horde base to their target. I don't get a lot of kills but I sure annoy the nme. There a lots of nme who feel safe in the midst of the horde, and they are ripe for the plucking. People drop their ordnance to avoid me, and generally get really angry. Since I am outnumbered vastly in such scenarios, I feel free to do whatever I want, including running away and coming back, without fear of censure from the political correctness nannys. Great joy can be gained from annoying the nme herd, getting a kill or two, and surviving to tell the tale. Hordes can be great fun. I have to admit that this kind of ride gets extra hard when they send ME163s after me. :) They may succeed in their hording activities and capture the base, but I try to make sure that they don't do it in too much comfort.
- Twang
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i am having fun in beta, sorry most of ya are not (by the looks of it). and since that is what playing this game is about (you know having fun) ill keep doing what im doing. im sure everyones idea of fun is different, so why bash them for doing what they enjoy? because you dont like it? to bad, im not gonna lose sleep over your thoughts of me playing the way i like. try something different than whining about it, like, log off or find another area to fly, thats what i have to do. oh well, im sure this will never end, someone will always be upset about something they have no contol over.
my 2 worthless pennies.
~S~
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Mars!
Talkin to the Rock again. If bases are close together it allows more people shorter flights to the horde from different points. I noticed that when there is only one base and the next closest is a sector or more away, less people opt to up, plain and simple.
Well, your vision of gameplay Utopia and my vision of gameplay Utopia are never going to be the same. I guess that's why we have a map rotation - each player gets his favourite map once in a while. And to Skuzzy for seeing to it that Pizza was given its full turn this week.
What pisses me off about small maps/close fields is when you work hard to push the enemy back, and it all comes to nought because while you maintain the cap, they send in an LA7 squad from a field 2 mins away. :mad: That, IMO, sucks. OK, I accept it's what you want, but it isn't what I want. Let's just leave it at that.
In response to my question about what you would do to repel a rook attack of about 10 planes, you answered thus: What are you asking? I wouldn't be doing anything, bomber support is boring at best, I'm looking for fights. As for killing bombers, I don't climb to god awful heights, if they aren't under 10k I don't go after them.
Looking for fights, huh? Well, it just so happens that I have the film from that time we repelled the knits back to their base. There were only about 10 of us rooks and, by your own definition, that does not constitute a horde. Looking for fights my arse. I'll tell you where you'd be. You'd be quivering in your GV - that's where you'd be. You're in that film, and that's what you did - even though the numbers were even at your base and you could easily have made an attempt to up a fighter. But golly-gosh - to up a fighter might mean you'd run risk and DIE! There, I've said it now. Hehe, just paraphrasing Slapshot.
Film of Mars01, quivering in his FLAK pansie instead of upping a fighter (http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/film31teamwork.zip) - But why? There were plenty of knit fighters up, and only about 9 rooks, ie NOT a horde. Folks blame the pizza map for not being able to find air to air combat. Hello? It helps if you get in a plane! :lol
Looking for fights - yeah, right. You say one thing, and you do another.
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/jester.gif)
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How could ya tell if he was quivering, lol
Your a strange one indeed...
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Well Beet,
What pisses me off about small maps/close fields is when you work hard to push the enemy back, and it all comes to nought because while you maintain the cap, they send in an LA7 squad from a field 2 mins away.
So what your saying is you want to easily hold your horde vulch and you dont want any interlopers to spoil your fun. Personally I'd rather the interlopers come in from another field so I could fight the enemy in the air rather than from my CAP perch. :lol But I understand thats you.
I guess I'll have to watch the film before I reply to that. Hopefully you'll be a man this time and leave it up long enough for me to download it when I get home. I'll post when I have it.
It only takes one or two people to vulch a field. If you look at my score my K/D ratio is what it is because I routinely try to up from capped fields. Something I bet you never do.
Personally I find it a challenge to get up and fight them back from the knocked down position. But there is a point when it won't happen and yes I will turn to a GV and try to knock a few down. Quivering, don't think so :lol Fighting to my last breath is more like it. Give it a try some time :lol
How could ya tell if he was quivering, lol
Your a strange one indeed...
Aint that the truth lolh Me thinks his panties are bunching.:D
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Originally posted by mars01
Well Beet,
I guess I'll have to watch the film before I reply to that. Hopefully you'll be a man this time and leave it up long enough for me to download it when I get home. I'll post when I have it.
[/QUOTE
It's not a great movie anyway Mars - I'd wait until it comes out on video. It won't last long on first release.
I think it's actually based on an older foreign language movie you might have seen some repeats of.
You know the one, 109 driver comes in from Alt , vulches zeke , cherrypicks niki , then performs a gentle luftberry (possibly including crys for help - the dub was missing , only subtitles were present), while countrymen scrape off a 51.
Fans expected more from this director given the blaze of PR on launch. Might fund difficulty funding next venture.
Redd
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LOLH Redd
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HAHAHA Beetle,
Nice try. Yep that's about how I figured you fly. Bout as much action as Asimov playing chess with Deep Blue. :lol Interesting, good for what it is, but no barn burner going on there.
For some reason I can't see any terrain, everything takes place over water. Which is odd cause my osti is just floating there. Kinda funny.
I guess the field alt is 4k, since that is my alt, so that gives you a nice 8k advantage over most at 11.8k. You are the second highest only to your fellow alt monger advantage coutryman Flxdacat who is at 12.2. The only threat to you is DmdRodan at a paultry 7k, 5k below you. Looks like your recognizable perch to me.
Seems you have a nice speed advantage as well. SO what a surprise Beetle flying with the deck stacked in his favor. And you cry about the Uber Trio. Come down off your Uber perch advantage boy.
There is a nice shot of Jackal getting his prettythang shot off, just before your prettythang gets saved. Was good team work, if your not Jackal. Ohhhh advantage 3 you do have the numbers in your immediate area, then you pull out of the fight I presume to regain your safe perch.
Not sure why I was in the GV, might have been taking a break from the flying. Who knows.
Here's a question, do you have any films where you aren't cherry, er I mean boom and picking, I mean cherry pick... no no I mean Boom and Zooming, thats it yeah.
I would be very interested to see those, or is your AtoA combat as one dimensional as your arguments. :D
BTW - I know you personally witnessed, from your perch above, me turn fighting Niks and spits on the deck in my Hog a month or so ago. About the time we switched to Rooks. I know you were watching because you even came down off your perch to clear my 12 for one or two of them. I think slap was there as well. So I figured no need for the film, but if you need let me know and I'll dig one of them up and post it for you. Then you can watch me quiver in my hog too.:lol
Sorry to everyone else about this becomming a pissing contest, I really just wanted to talk about the hordes and how moving bases closer together helps alieviate some of the horde problems.
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When did the 13th become a La7 squad? Bunch of lamers... :p
PS... I know when I meet mars, slappy or any 13th, I'll have a fun fight. It'd be more fun to fight any of them once than beet 5 times IMHO.
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Probably the same time that the BK's became a bunch of ack running sissy-marys. :p
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Originally posted by Mathman
Probably the same time that the BK's became a bunch of ack running sissy-marys. :p
Come get some kitty. We're always open. :lol
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Haha Redd! Yes a boring movie indeed. You should have seen how boring it was from inside Mars01's flak pansie! :lol
Mars! So what your saying is you want to easily hold your horde vulch and you dont want any interlopers to spoil your fun.
No no no! By your own definition it wasn't a horde. 9 rooks against 10 knits is what I saw in the right hand pane near the beginning.
As you point out, rooks had consolidated an advantage. This was AFTER we had pushed the knit attack back from our base. I'm about 6-7K off the deck, and the only reason I have those advantages was because there was so little opposition. Folks were frustrated that they couldn't take off in an LA7 from 2 mins away, so they copped out with the flak-pansie option!! :D
Dipstick! PS... I know when I meet mars, slappy or any 13th, I'll have a fun fight. It'd be more fun to fight any of them once than beet 5 times IMHO.
Yeah, it's real fun dogfighting an Ostwind! :lol (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_72.gif)
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Originally posted by DipStick
When did the 13th become a La7 squad? Bunch of lamers... :p
PS... I know when I meet mars, slappy or any 13th, I'll have a fun fight. It'd be more fun to fight any of them once than beet 5 times IMHO.
Yes we are lamers ... I will admit to that, but an La-7 squad ... don't think so. Who is spreading that nasty rumor ?
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last night some gilligan steers Knight cv up between rook 22- and that other one across the channel. It was the only fight shaping up in the time I had online. Killed some ki-67s,dodged a spit14 that tried to vulch me on the cv as I landed 4 times(he died on the 6th as I was taking off and my own ack killed me.) Went up for a second sortie. Found p-47 went in for co-alt fight, he dived and ran for 22. Saw 234 going across toward cv at 100ft, kill 2 of him but too late, he sunk the cv. fly around over cv watch horde form(all 5 guys have to get up above 20k before engaging lone f6f at 10k)) up over 22 before heading out to kill me. Got bored and landed my F6f on the back to the battleship, worked until some nimrod turned the turret and knocked me into the drink. Just as the 234 tard came back and took out the BB.
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Hahahaa Pooh too funny,
Dip that was a great time in AHII the other night, You turn that spit V like Lev. :D
Beet,
at least your fun on the BBs. :D
quote:
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So what your saying is you want to easily hold your horde vulch and you dont want any interlopers to spoil your fun.
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No no no! By your own definition it wasn't a horde. 9 rooks against 10 knits is what I saw in the right hand pane near the beginning.
As you point out, rooks had consolidated an advantage. This was AFTER we had pushed the knit attack back from our base.
Sheesh, to any of you aspiring spinners and shifters out there, above is a classic Shifting technique. It's the "Take it Out of Context and Put it into a Pretend Context. All carried out by moving small pieces and talking about them in your own context, hoping that the audiance are conmplete dolts and won't for an instant catch on. hahahaha LOLH :lol
I'll go slow for you Beet,
The quote of mine you refrenced,
Originally posted by:mars01
So what your saying is you want to easily hold your horde vulch and you dont want any interlopers to spoil your fun.
has nothing to do with your film. It is in refrence to you prior quote:
Originally posted by:Beetle
What pisses me off about small maps/close fields is when you work hard to push the enemy back, and it all comes to nought because while you maintain the cap, they send in an LA7 squad from a field 2 mins away.
So Beet nice redirection, beautiful example, you wear the Name Ole Shifty well.:D
Getting back to our conversation, So what your saying again is that your feeble CAP ability can't withstand a stream of La7s, which I may add are one of the easiest planes to kill in just about anything. If you could probably turn and burn as well as you Boom and Zoom, you would probably come to realize that that constant stream of willing fighters is a huge part of what this game is all about.
And I guess the difference is that you would rather sit on your perch and dive bomb guys at a disadvantage all day, while I would rather clash head to head with every willing pilot that wants to fight head on. Sometimes they have the advantages, sometimes I do. More often than not, a fair advantage at the start of it, for both makes it the most fun.
So I can understand why you would hate close bases. Too many pilots, able to fight on more equal terms, where there isn't enough time for one side or the other to get much higher than 8 to 10k, where more time is spent fighting than climbing.
So, yes your right we shall agree to disagree. You fly your way and I fly a different way. Too bad all the maps couldn't have both ways of flying considered. Oh wait, Festers do.
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With it so easy to pork fuel in AH, the proximity of bases is only an aggravation to those with poor SA.
Pilots in a group get on a good perch and start to feel safe. Everyone gets into a wasteful lazy circuit beet1e is flying in that film with their headdown. Especially in a no-dar situation an La7's closing speed only aggravates the problem, buts it not the planes fault, its poor fundamentals. We've all busted through poorly executed caps of this nature at some point or another.
Sure grouping fields without mutual support dumbs down the tactical situation so even poorly flown caps are sufficient. But I don't see the advantage of HTC catering to this type of flying.
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hordes eh?
Don't planes fly in squadrons and such?
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Originally posted by mars01
Getting back to our conversation, So what your saying again is that your feeble CAP ability can't withstand a stream of La7s, which I may add are one of the easiest planes to kill in just about anything. If you could probably turn and burn as well as you Boom and Zoom, you would probably come to realize that that constant stream of willing fighters is a huge part of what this game is all about.
[list=1]- Feeble though the CAP may have been, it was ample to suppress your best efforts, and had you cowering in a GV. That was AFTER we reversed the situation, by pushing the knit attack back to home base.
- The 109G2 is not a turn fiter. It isn't even B&Z. It's an E fiter.Don't expect me to turnfite on the deck with your Spit V, or your N1K... or your Ostwind. :lol
After this sortie, I could see that the knit opposition was too feeble to justify my continued presence. A few GVs... oh wait, you were one of them - never mind. So I pissed off to an area of the map where guys wanted to fite, not just cower in GVs.
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People will fly how they are most comfortable with. They are paying to play and theres no rules against HOs, perch attacks, etc.
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Originally posted by mars01
Dip that was a great time in AHII the other night, You turn that spit V like Lev. :D
I know you're joking but sure appreciate it anyway. I'll be happy if I can get 1/2 as good as Lev someday. You're no slouch yourself. Did enjoy the fights, was fun!
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Mars... I'm gonna have to disagee with the La-7 being one of the easiest planes to kill. Flown the way most fly it, it is very hard to kill an La-7, unless you are good at taking long distance snapshots at a rapidly fleeing target. Furthermore, it is not an unmanueverable plane... and when flown agressively it is a match for any plane in the first 10-15 seconds of a fight against any pilot in any plane (unless you happen to be a mindreader.. that agressive move will get that La-7 driver a shot early in the fight, although if he misses it and sticks around he is at a disadvantage against the "turners").
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Originally posted by Urchin
Mars... I'm gonna have to disagee with the La-7 being one of the easiest planes to kill. Flown the way most fly it, it is very hard to kill an La-7, unless you are good at taking long distance snapshots at a rapidly fleeing target. Furthermore, it is not an unmanueverable plane... and when flown agressively it is a match for any plane in the first 10-15 seconds of a fight against any pilot in any plane (unless you happen to be a mindreader.. that agressive move will get that La-7 driver a shot early in the fight, although if he misses it and sticks around he is at a disadvantage against the "turners").
Got that right Urchin. If ya don't believe it Shane can take ya to the DA and prove it to ya. ;)
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Originally posted by RTSigma
People will fly how they are most comfortable with. They are paying to play and theres no rules against HOs, perch attacks, etc.
Indeed. In fact the reason I started at about 7K above ground level was because we didn't know what cons there would be or how high they would be when pushing back to the knit field. On most maps, if a battle were to be taking place between fields there would be interlopers from a third field. In this case there were none but we could not have known that.
Ah yes, this thread is now turning into a hero worship thread, as normally happens when the two squadrons forming the Mutual Backslappers' Society participate. I am in total awe at one's ability at turning a Spit V. :rolleyes: Oh look, people. Pilot-A can pull his stick handle harder than Pilot-B. :eek: The whole thing is bollocks because much is going to change in AH2, including not being able to maintain control with a blacked out pilot. My heart goes out to those having to make the transition from that bastion of manhood, the AH1 Spit V.
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/violin.gif)
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Originally posted by beet1e
I am in total awe at one's ability at turning a Spit V. :rolleyes: Oh look, people. Pilot-A can pull his stick handle harder than Pilot-B. :eek: The whole thing is bollocks because much is going to change in AH2, including not being able to maintain control with a blacked out pilot. My heart goes out to those having to make the transition from that bastion of manhood, the AH1 Spit V.
Hehehe .. we were talking about some fights we had in AH2.
PS... Pull your head out. The blackout model is already there sparky.
PSS... Until you leave your perch and try it, you will stay in awe. ;)
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Originally posted by DipStick
Hehehe .. we were talking about some fights we had in AH2.
PS... Pull your head out. The blackout model is already there sparky.
Fair enough - OK for me to talk about AH1, as that's where most people still fly?
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Sure beet, talk about AH1 all you want, it's history... :rolleyes: <-- for nopoop (http://www.theblueknights.com/rolleyes.html)
Tell you another thing beet. The FM is tough in any plane as you will soon find out. Of course you actually have to fight or pull a couple of Gs to find out.... maybe offline. ;)
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Originally posted by beet1e
My heart goes out to those having to make the transition from that bastion of manhood, the AH1 Spit V.
It's hard to believe that you're actually this clueless. The new blackout model will affect people who fly like you far more than it will affect people who fly like Dipstick or me. It should be quite a bit easier to spoil a shot by a faster BnZ plane or even sucker him into perma-blackout now in a Spit V than it was before.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Ouch!
lazs
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Suffered my first blackout crash flying a spit9 in a t&b fight on the weekend. Also gained a victory over an La7 (part of a "horde" of bishops - 5 or 6 anyway who pursued my lonely little p51D after I ineffectively bombed their base - La7 caught up slowly and wounded me after the others dropped out. I made a spiral climbing turn and I think he must have blacked out because he kept going in a slight climbing turn - I came back down and he didn't start to manouver until just before I fired. I made it home, blood bespattered and fainting). La-7s are normally my bane. So the new black out model DOES affect the nature of the fights - for the better I would say. You can still T&B, but you have to pace yourself a bit more.
-Twang
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
It's hard to believe that you're actually this clueless. The new blackout model will affect people who fly like you far more than it will affect people who fly like Dipstick or me. It should be quite a bit easier to spoil a shot by a faster BnZ plane or even sucker him into perma-blackout now in a Spit V than it was before.
It's hard to believe you could be so arrogant as to think I was talking about you, dipstick or anyone else in this thread. I was talking about the average game the game pilot. But I can see why you got confused - when I said "average". was I talking about the medium or the mean? :lol ;)
In all honesty, I don't suffer from any blackout game function in AH1 OR AH2. I know where the limits are. I didn't play much AH2 last week because Pizza was up in AH1.
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Feeble though the CAP may have been, it was ample to suppress your best efforts, and had you cowering in a GV. That was AFTER we reversed the situation, by pushing the knit attack back to home base.
The 109G2 is not a turn fiter. It isn't even B&Z. It's an E fiter.Don't expect me to turnfite on the deck with your Spit V, or your N1K... or your Ostwind.
After this sortie, I could see that the knit opposition was too feeble to justify my continued presence. A few GVs... oh wait, you were one of them - never mind. So I pissed off to an area of the map where guys wanted to fite, not just cower in GVs.
Beetle are you not reading. Your definately hearing only what you want to, as usual. My comments about hordes and feeble cap have nothing to do with your film and everything to do with your posts.
Originally posted by:Beetle
What pisses me off about small maps/close fields is when you work hard to push the enemy back, and it all comes to nought because while you maintain the cap, they send in an LA7 squad from a field 2 mins away.
Shifting still even after your are called out on it. Time to change tactics Beet.
Ah yes, this thread is now turning into a hero worship thread, as normally happens when the two squadrons forming the Mutual Backslappers' Society participate.
HAHAHA Yep when you have no constructive reply you always return to something like your above quote. Bottom line Beet, You said,
Originally posted by:Beetle
What pisses me off about small maps/close fields is when you work hard to push the enemy back, and it all comes to nought because while you maintain the cap, they send in an LA7 squad from a field 2 mins away.
Which reads to me as, "When the bases are close together I can't keep a CAP on the field because I have to fight LA7s." What a shame you have to fight other planes. I'll let you in on a little secret, this game is about fighting other planes. Enme plane Good, flying around with nothing to shoot bad.:lol
I am in total awe at one's ability at turning a Spit V. Oh look, people. Pilot-A can pull his stick handle harder than Pilot-B. The whole thing is bollocks because much is going to change in AH2, including not being able to maintain control with a blacked out pilot. My heart goes out to those having to make the transition from that bastion of manhood, the AH1 Spit V.
Beet add another dimension to you ability and learn how to turn fight, then you won't make absured comments like this or the majority of the others.
Funny now your issues are with SpitV what happend to your whipping boy the LA7. Are we adding more planes to your Uber trio. :lol
Hey Urchin. Yeah I agree in the right hands the LA7 is deadly, like you stated a great combination of manuverability and speed. But for the majority of LA7s pilots that I run into, I find they are pretty benign.
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Originally posted by beet1e
It's hard to believe you could be so arrogant as to think I was talking about you, dipstick or anyone else in this thread.
[/b]
Here you go again. When I referred to Dipstick and myself, I was referring to "Turn and Burners" as opposed to conservative, "Boom and Zoom," fly-to-live kind of folks like yourself. Only you would confuse a general statement about flying styles with a specific statement about flying skill.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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This is a "repost" of mine from a while back... :D
I've been studying the boards for the last few weeks and it seems that you need to put out a broad generalized statement with just enough specifics to stir the pot. A definite key is to draw in a guy name beetle and the 13th TAS. If you can hook Steve onto a your post with one of his "suxs" series, sprinkle in a little SOB, Lazs2 and some films posted by Shane and you've got a real winner on your hands.
Example whine: "Bishops are ‘tool shed’ battlers that wouldn't know ACM in their girly LaLa7 and spit5s if it hit them square on their jaw"
The spit5 part may elicit a response from Leviathn and generate a thread within a thread discussion about the level of "suckage" and some guy named Drex.
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Drex sucks BTW.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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LOL Hun, yeah but where do you stand hahaha:D
On a perch or in the trenches?
Fields Close together and short fights in abundance or fields far apart and long boring flights and spradic nme encounters. :D
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Here you go again. When I referred to Dipstick and myself, I was referring to "Turn and Burners" as opposed to conservative, "Boom and Zoom," fly-to-live kind of folks like yourself. Only you would confuse a general statement about flying styles with a specific statement about flying skill. [/B]
Plenty gets confused across the Atlantic Ocean. Believe me. ;)
Mars01!!! I thought you'd deserted me! Bwahahaha - I've been a bit harsh on you in this thread.
No, no problem about the LA7. The LA7 is no longer stuck in my craw! But it IS always the LA7 the dweebs up when they feel intimidated, or want to seek out the goons. I'll let you in on a little secret, this game is about fighting other planes.
Erm..., it's also about jabo attacks on strategic positions, troop deployment, base capture - plus things like field guns, PT boats... and GVs. Oh wait, you already know about those. :p Pooh-pooh the MA strat all you want. But it was PUT there by HTC. It didn't just grow out of a strat seed pod. :rolleyes: If you're not interested in that strat, that isn't my problem. If you are interested only in duelling, and deployment of your elite turnfighting skills, there's a separate arena for that. Beats me why it isn't more popular. Funny now your issues are with SpitV what happend to your whipping boy the LA7. Are we adding more planes to your Uber trio.
Well if we did that, it would no longer be a trio. It would be a quartet! No problem fighting LA7 or SpitV/Seafire. In T49 I managed 35/4 against LA7, and 41/9 against SpitV/Seafire (combined total). And T49 was my last tour before summer weather started hitting Europe. I've cut way back on AH since then.
If there's anything else of your I didn't reply to, it's because it was all bollocks - but you're still my favourite maroon!
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Actually, I think you guys will never ever see eye to eye on this subject of TnB/furball vs. the BnZ/Ratio argument.
Everything in this game is subjective and you have to find your own way of measuring yourself.
Can I live through 10 sorties before I die? Can I up from a capped field and kill the vulcher? Can I last 2 rotations against Leviathn in a 1v1? Can I climb the rope and drop the E dweeb? It's just a matter of what you consider to be fun.
My own views on this change from time to time as I look for different aspects of the game to keep me interested. However I never try to convince the other guy of what to do. And as I learned recently perspective is everything.
After being picked off in a gang-bang I was told by the picker "see your ACM got you no where." And when I thought about a response I realized that there was nothing I could say that would change that guy's perception of himself or of me in the end...
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Mars01!!! I thought you'd deserted me! Bwahahaha - I've been a bit harsh on you in this thread.
Nope busy doing the RL thing lol. Harsh on me hahaha how? Cause of your GV comments. Not at all, if I cared about you or what anyone else said I'd never leave the house.
If there's anything else of your I didn't reply to, it's because it was all bollocks - but you're still my favourite maroon!
Sheet if thats the case I'd have nothing to reply to you about. Nice cop-out tho. I guess your bowing out.
LOL Hun I agree with you. The main point of this thread started with hordes. A good way to minimize the impact of the hordes is to move the fields closer together. The problem is tho, and what Beetle has pointed out, when you move the fields closer together you actually have to engage the enemy. The enemy has a chance of actually fighting back. Seems some don't like when the enemy can fight back.
Honestly I would like to see maps where both flavors are accomodated. Much like Fester was able to do with his maps. Half the fields in close prox and the other half a sector apart. I think more than a sector is a bit too far for even the Beetle types. The hordes would be more managable and there would be more fights.
The TnB vs BnZ don't need to agree the maps just have to allow both to exist.
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Haha HUN! You're just what we need in this thread!
We've actually got two debates going. One is about the "most elite" playing style, the other is about base separation. I had always found 109s to be difficult to manage. Indeed, I was the worst 109 pilot known to WB up till 2001. So in AH, I decided to try to learn it properly, aided by my excellent mentors, Grunherz, Urchin & Ecke. I'm not natural 109 material, but I'm a lot better than I was. The other planes I like are the USN planes - F4U/F6F, and carrier ops. None of "my" planes is going to win in a turnfite against a Spit V. And yet we have guys like Mars chastising me for not "mixing it up on the deck" against planes like N1K, Zeke, ... and Spit V. That is one debate.
The other is base spacing. A personal preference. I have always considered it kind of lame to defend a base under attack by upping from a different base a couple of minutes away. That option is much less viable on the pizza map, and that's why guys like Mars are crying about it. Mars01 argues that with the base under attack and no second base available, that his side cannot fight back. That is bollocks. We the rooks managed to turn around just such a knit attack, and push it all the way back to their base. That is the other debate!
But I like Mars. :aok
Still, I might be crying myself soon - if Pizza is not carried over to AH2. :(
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HAHAHAH LOL Beet,
I think it was Jack Nickleson in "As Good As it Gets" where he was a writer. One of the female characters ( I think it was Hellen Hunts) asked him, being a man how do you write from a womans perspecitve so well. His reply was, "I start with a man and remove all logic and accountability". With that in mind Beet you must be a woman. LOL :D
I'm chastising you? You posted the film and started to derail the thread as soon as we got to the hart of the matter, that you hate when people (LA7s to be exact) spoil your vulch.
There is no elite flying style, there is BnZ which I also do at times but get bored of quickly and TnB, which is fast paced and very aggressive. Which after a few hours gets reppetitive and I do something else if the map permits.
Problem with your beloved maps is that they only allow a very small cross section of gameplay so when I get bored of BnZ I have to log off rather than TnB or something else.
Why couldn't Pizza accomodate some closer fields and increase the choices people have?
BTW - I do enjoy sparing with Beet and others on these BBs, I hold no animosity for him or anyone else for that matter on these BBs. This is all in good fun and decent debate.
but you're still my favourite maroon!
Comming from the king, that is a compliment.:D
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Originally posted by beet1e
And yet we have guys like Mars chastising me for not "mixing it up on the deck" against planes like N1K, Zeke, ... and Spit V. That is one debate.
There's more than just that IMO. I don't honestly care how you fly, what you fly, or how well you fly it. However, you seem to have entered into this wishful thinking mode where you wish away all of the things in AH2 that annoy you about how other people fly and what they fly in AH1. I've seen you do this when talking about the differences in aiming, and now I see you doing it when talking about the new blackout model.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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ROFL Mars01. :D
Originally posted by mars01
I think it was Jack Nickleson in "As Good As it Gets" where he was a writer. One of the female characters ( I think it was Hellen Hunts) asked him, being a man how do you write from a womans perspecitve so well. His reply was, "I start with a man and remove all logic and accountability". With that in mind Beet you must be a woman. LOL :D
LOL - well, I'll let you into a few secrets. I have very small hands. And my bedroom is painted in a sort of girlie pink! But I did that "wiring diagram" brain test in the book "Why men don't listen and women can't read maps" - and I got a score of -50 - almost off the bottom of the scale - dead butch - the score that all the AH gun nuts would like to get! There is an online version of that test. I'll look for it, and post it in the O Club. I saw AGAIG with Nicholson; it was a good film, though not a great film.
DMF! "There's more than just that IMO. I don't honestly care how you fly, what you fly, or how well you fly it. However, you seem to have entered into this wishful thinking mode where you wish away all of the things in AH2 that annoy you about how other people fly and what they fly in AH1. I've seen you do this when talking about the differences in aiming, and now I see you doing it when talking about the new blackout model. "
Your post is bollocks. I know you're a very smart guy, so I'm guessing you're having a bad day. I LIKE AH2! I haven't found anything in it I don't like. Why did you think that? I haven't been affected by the blackout model. I look foward to those 600+yd shots becoming less routine. The only thing I would say is that in twilight, the sun seems much bigger and much brighter than it ought to be.
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I'm actually on the side of the "close fields = fun fight" on this debate.
Had a great fight that lasted about an hour between 1 knight field and 2 rook fields yesterday.
Was attracted people like flies to ****. Except in a good way.
I'm pretty sure a good time was had by all, I know it was the first real *furball* I've been in for about a year.
By furball I mean a constant stream of planes going to a very low fight about halfway between the bases in question... nonstop action once you got to the fight until you died.
20 kills an hour. That is a kill every 3 minutes. No vulching involved... just pure furballing fun.
And yes... it was mostly spits and niks mixing it up, with us in Niks and them in Spits... both sides had a few run90s and Lgay7's blowing through looking for cherrypicks.. but you could pretty much ignore them.
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Originally posted by beet1e
I LIKE AH2! I haven't found anything in it I don't like. Why did you think that?
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Sorry, looking back I can see the confusion in how it was worded. What I meant to say was that you've taken all of the things that you disliked about AH1 and, through wishful thinking, convinced yourself that changes in AH2 "fixed" them. In reality, these things haven't really changed dramatically or in the ways you're expecting, but you're assigning more importance or weight to them than they probably deserve.
So what I'm saying is that I totally recognize that you love AH2 -- moreso perhaps than even AH1 -- but that your dislike for certain flying styles and planes in AH1 coupled with some of the flight model and gameplay changes in AH2 have led you to crow on about the greatness of AH2. Yet I don't think these changes will really result in the arena pangea you're expecting.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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DMF - oh, OK. As for the turny-burny planes - I haven't flown them since 1998 in WB. I got recruited into a 190 squad, and it went on from there.
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Yup the last 3 -4 days has just been the Rook hoard.
Squad had a good 4 v 4 going other night, within 5 mins it was more like 10 -15 v 4. Even Karaya2 who is a Rook ( but Bish for the night ) commented on the Rook hoard.
Maybe ditching the small maps and just having large maps would help?
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I am holding out hope that once hitech/pyro work out the system bugs that they will next address gameplay. They are smart guys I am sure they have a few ideas.
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Originally posted by Zanth
I am holding out hope that once hitech/pyro work out the system bugs that they will next address gameplay.
I agree entirely. I thought the AH1 graphics were fine, and better than WB3 for damn sure. To my mind, some sort of controlling influence over gameplay is needed. I voiced my concerns over this somewhat repeatedly over the past two years. A lot of people laughed. They're not laughing now.