Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: frank3 on June 02, 2004, 01:57:08 PM
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Im beginning with a 1:72 P-47D-30 Thunderbolt from Revell.
I have some questions before I start paint brushing it.:
- I've heard about modellers washing the frames with soap and water, why do they do that and should I do it too?
- What colour for the cockpit do you suggest?
- The model will go in alluminium colour, for the 'weathering' effect I heard something about mixing 1 part black (or other dark) paint with about 5 parts of water, put this on the plane and whipe it off, it's said that the darkish water will stay in the panel lines etc giving a nice panel effect.
Do I put it all over the aircraft? or only at some panels?
- At some parts the paint is weathered off abit (in real), I've heard many ways to replicate this. But what's the best way to do this? And where is it needed?
- the wing parts (upper and lower) are painted the same colour, do I need to glue them together before I paint in this case?
Have you got any more tips, ideas on how I can make this model as realistic possible?
Thanks alot!
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Wash them to get rid of the release agent from the plastic molds. It'll paint better.
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I see, the surfaces did feel abit...greasy, so the paint will stick better?
And my other questions?
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1. the rationale behind the washing (mild dish detergent) is to remove any residual factory oils from the manufacturing process.
2. cockpit colors are usually greenish for ww2 birds. in the case of the p-47, dark drab green is suggested, altho at 1/72 scale you can get away with various olive greens. be sure to add a drop or so of white to the mix - reason being to "scale" the color.
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/tnt1/001-100/TNT027_Color_of_Colour/tnt027.htm
3. the weathering wash you're referring to.... yes it will, you can wipe off excess before it dries. depending on the base paint, enamel or acrylic, what you use for the wash can have an effect on the undercoat. for enamel base colors, using acrylics on top will not effect the enamel. for acrylics base, you might want to use artist pastels (like chalk, but snobbier) on top. use your judgement about the coverage. if this is your first model, don't worry about perfection.
http://s96920072.onlinehome.us/TnT_Archives/Washes-weathering.htm
4. additional weathering, i.e. paint chipping, and oil stains - various ways to get the paint chipping from using a silver paint pen, to base painting in a metal color and the chipping off the overcoat (for example an olive drab scheme) to using a brush and being very careful with applying the "chips".
http://s96920072.onlinehome.us/TnT_Archives/Chipped_Paint.htm
5. i'd recommend you put the wings together before painting, as if you painted first, some excess glue may spoil the paint, not to mention you may find a hairline seam that you'd want to fill, requiring sanding and possibly putty to cover the seam.
here are some links to some helpful sites:
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/ the tools and tips section will be very insightful, the above links are from that section.
http://www.hyperscale.com/
http://www.swannysmodels.com/index.html
http://hem.bredband.net/thomaskolb/art/models/introduction_e.htm
welcome to the hobby... have fun.
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Althought washing your model is good practice, in all my years of modeling I've never washed a single model before painting it unless It had lots of putty or sanding involved. Best advice for anyone starting out with plastic models, built it without any weathering (not easy). Focus on making a clean perfect pristine model kit which is a skill in itself. If you decide to, you can always weather it at a later time.
edit: with testors paint I never had any probs however, with some of these new acrylic water based paints maybe the oil on the plastic becomes a problem. Little dishwashing soap and lotsa warm water in the kitchen sink. Dip the model in and light rinse and that should do it. Air dry with a blow dry and cotton cloth.
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Here is a fun site for you,
http://modelingmadness.com/kitindex/kitindexmain.htm
and you could join us fellow modelers here
http://www.ipmsusa.org/
Dive in, it's a great way to unwind
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Originally posted by frank3
Im beginning with a 1:72 P-47D-30 Thunderbolt from Revell.
I have some questions before I start paint brushing it.:
- I've heard about modellers washing the frames with soap and water, why do they do that and should I do it too?
Its a good idea, but not really necessary. Revell usually does a good job of making clean kits, but an ounce of prevention will save you a pound of frustration later on. Sometimes, if there is oil on the plastic, the paint will bubble around it and leave an island of oil in the finish.
- What colour for the cockpit do you suggest?
Zinc Chromate Green
- The model will go in alluminium colour, for the 'weathering' effect I heard something about mixing 1 part black (or other dark) paint with about 5 parts of water, put this on the plane and whipe it off, it's said that the darkish water will stay in the panel lines etc giving a nice panel effect. Do I put it all over the aircraft? or only at some panels?
For your first kit, I would suggest keeping the weathering fairly simple - maybe some grease around the wheels, some smoke around the guns and exhaust. I use some diluted-down acrylic flat black. The thin mixture will settle in the cracks and crevices so that those parts are darker, and will leave a 'shadow' on the upper parts.
- At some parts the paint is weathered off abit (in real), I've heard many ways to replicate this. But what's the best way to do this? And where is it needed?
If the airplane is in its natural metal finish, there won't be any paint to weather off. But, if you want to try and weather the propeller blades, I would suggest spraying them in silver, then using small pieces of masking tape where you want the chips to be, then spraying the blades in flat black. When the blades are dry, peel off the tape. Obviously, you want to do this before you glue the blade onto the airplane, or you'll end up with a big mess.
- the wing parts (upper and lower) are painted the same colour, do I need to glue them together before I paint in this case?
Its a good idea to glue the wings together, the fuselage together, and the wings to the fuselage before you paint the airplane. The reason for this is two-fold: (1) paint prevents glue from getting a good bond on the plastic, and (2) those are the seams that most often need to be sanded after the glue dries. I usually wait a day or two after glueing the fuselage and wings together before I sand off the seam, just to give the glue time to get good and hard. You'll want to use Fine grade (220) at least, maybe even UltraFine, too.
DON'T ADD ANY CLEAR PARTS UNTIL YOU'RE ALMOST DONE!
After you spray the plane, look for obvious seams, holes, or errors. Be gentle when handling the metal finish, as your fingers will rub off the silver paint and/or leave oil on the surface. You want to handle the airplane along the edges of the wings instead of the top and bottom.
Once you've done any sanding or filling and have sprayed the plane again, let it dry overnight to cure.
Now, this is purely optional, but I like to spray the whole thing with a thin layer of Testor's GlossCote, just to seal the metal finish and protect it while handling the airplane and adding the gear, doors, bombs, drop tanks, etc., painting the squadron markings, adding weathering, and whatnot. One trick for the wheels is to paint the base coat a dark grey or brown, then wash it in black. The black will settle in the treads and leave the upper surface looking like old rubber.
Decal time. Either spray the whole plane with a coat of GlossCote, or use Micro Gloss where the decals will go. This will prevent "ghosting" - a tendency for a film to be obvious around the decals. Let this dry overnight.
Add decals, let them dry for at least a couple of hours (just to be safe) then spray with Testor's DullCote or MicroFlat to seal the decals and keep them from rubbing off.
Lastly, glue the cockpit onto the plane using Testor's Window Cement. This is glue that is especially designed for glueing clear plastic together. You can also use it to make small windows, lenses, etc. and to fill in gaps between the fuselage and the canopy.
Have you got any more tips, ideas on how I can make this model as realistic possible?
Make a diorama base for it. Its easy. I use those 1:18 scale car display cases (about $10 at Wal-Mart), the ones with the black bottom and clear plastic cover. Of course, that's contingent on the plane being able to fit inside the cover.
Generally, you want to find a base that won't flex. Thick plywood is a good choice. Some people even use cheap wooden picture frames (remove the glass). You'll want some Elmer's white glue, a bag of modeler's grass ($4 at most hobby shops) and/or some sand (I use sand from my front yard, filtered through a bug screen to remove leaves and rocks, and stored in a zip-loc bag). I also use twigs from my yard to represent fallen logs and such.
First, figure out how you want the plane to sit in the frame and where you want the dirt to go and the grass to go. Now that you have a basic idea, pour some white glue where you want the dirt to go, add your logs (if any), then sprinkle the sand into the glue. I put enough dirt on the top layer so that the dirt surface looks dry, then I gently push down on the surface so that the dirt gets embedded into the glue. The glue will dry clear, so don't worry about it being obvious. When its dry, lightly tap the loose sand off (I recycle my sand by tapping it off into a plastic take-home tray from Maggiano's Italian restaurant, then pouring it back into the zip-loc bag). Be careful not to tap your log(s) loose!
Now to add the grass. You can either wait for the dirt to dry or you can go ahead and put the grass on top, its up to you, but just make sure you don't man-handle the base around too much or you'll end up with a gooey mess. I prefer to wait for the sand part to dry before I add grass.
Once the dirt is dry, lay out some lines of glue where you want the grass to be. I use a small brush to sort of work the glue into the surface of the dirt (white glue cleans with water, so don't worry about ruining the brush). Then I sprinkle on the grass, tap off the loose grass into the take-home tray, and let it dry overnight.
Next day, I spray the diorama base with a dull clear coat. Testor's DullCote works well, or you can just use a spray can of "Clear" from Home Depot or Lowe's or whatnot. This is to seal the grass and dirt so that it doesn't end up all over your bedroom floor.
Lastly, add the airplane. If you're patient, you can use white glue to hold it in place, or you can be lazy and use marine silicone epoxy (my choice), or you can just let it sit on the diorama base without any glue (another one of my choices - let's me use the same base with different airplanes when taking pictures).
Now that you have all of your supplies and have finished your first kit, its time for you to build the next one!
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Ok if you want to try weathering your model. I would recommend getting some water color tubes of paint. Winsor Newton, Grumbacher, Da Vinci, etc... You can put some on a qtip and rub it onto your model with your finger. Use a qtip or toothpick to apply it to the surface and rub it in with your finger. You can do basic weathering with this on small scale models for exhaust smoke, panel lines, etc...
(http://i1.ebayimg.com/01/i/01/e6/7c/db_1.JPG)
good base colors are...
burnt Sienna, raw umber, black, any dark greys
for mixing
titanium white (to lighten), Cadmium Red (red mix), etc...
Easy way to do weathering, hard to mess up. You'll need an acrylic or laquor clear coat to seal it. Floor wax should be ok also. If you dont airbrush it clear, it will rub off when touched or run if you brush the clear coat on.
For silver, I recommend a dark grey and burnt sienna for the panel lines.
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I'm just surprised that Nuke hasn't chimed in here. He does some amazing things with models.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I'm just surprised that Nuke hasn't chimed in here. He does some amazing things with models.
Thanks Sandman......I appreciate your compliments very much sir.
The posts from the other modelers seemed to answer his questions very well
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Originally posted by NUKE
Thanks Sandman......I appreciate your compliments very much sir.
Just softening you up for an F-14 model... ;)
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you can email me, in my profile.
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gaaaahhh!! jet phag!! kill it before it breeds!
:p
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Originally posted by Shane
gaaaahhh!! jet phag!! kill it before it breeds!
:p
Just that one... I was an intercept controller in an earlier life. ;)
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Originally posted by NUKE
you can email me, in my profile.
Oh ****! I was kidding... It's too much to ask.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Oh ****! I was kidding... It's too much to ask.
you never know :)
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While we're talking about models. Here's a little diorama I whipped up using some kits I got off eBay dirt cheap.
You'll have to excuse the poor photography. I'm still learning how to work my camera. I accidentally screwed up the exposure, hence the glare effect. I filmed it in my front yard on an overcast day.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/528_1086270267_ki-43diorama-1.jpg)
A normal day of routine maintenance on a factory-fresh Ki-43 Hayabusa.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/528_1086270314_ki-43diorama-2.jpg)
No activity goes unnoticed!
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/528_1086270355_ki-43diorama-3.jpg)
Overall look at the scene.
The truck is a 1/72 Isuzu Gas Truck by Hasegawa.
The airplane is a 1/72 Ki-43 by Hasegawa.
The Japanese crew figures and bomb cart came with the truck.
The tree is a HO scale crappy plastic tree I painted with Model Master Sand Brown and SAC Bomber Green.
The shed is scratchbuilt using an awning that came with the crappy plastic tree, with Evergreen sprue rods for support and toothpicks glued together for the workbench.
The oil drum and ammo boxes came from a 1/72 Checkpoint scene by Hasegawa. The sandbag sitting on top of the drum is actually some spare sprue from a tank kit. The sprue was "filler" holding the tank's wheels together on the sprue frame. I sanded and shaped it to thin it a bit, and added the "Minicraft-Hasegawa" logo from the Ki-43's decal sheet just to give it a label.
The GI figure is from a set that came with a Revell M-16 halftrack kit I got for Christmas. Its hard to see, but he's holding binoculars and a walkie-talkie.
The runway is tile mortar, the dirt is from my front yard, the grass is modeling grass from a model train store and the tall weeds are from an old paintbrush. The woodchips were bought through eBay as "landscaping material". Its all glued onto a 1:18 model car display case. I removed the clear plastic cover for the purpose of photographing the scene. Its all safely under plastic again. :)
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Looks in ........... "Sighs"
Looks at the Huge box hiding in top of closet (Full of models)
Eyes the small disaster in the living room.........
Looks at the 3 yr old ...... "Sighs"
Great model work guys .
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5 more years and you might have a partner. ;)
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Thank you very much for all the answer guys, it really helped me, I'll be right on my way to the neareast modellers shop/hobby shop!
Though there has been a misunderstanding, you might think Im new at this when I said 'I begin with..' but that only means Im beginning a new model, not with the culture itself. Actually I've been a modeller for over 10 years :) (do note that I started when I was six and I'm not 16)
When I aquired my paint brush some years ago I decided it was time for me to weather the models.
Thanks alot everyone! I'll try and make some pics of them when one is done (got a PBY Catalina, B-26, P-47D and many others still under construction)
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Btw, what exactly is future? It's used for carpet or something?
I did menage to recon it's for the prevention of paint being chipped off
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Originally posted by frank3
Btw, what exactly is future? It's used for carpet or something?
I did menage to recon it's for the prevention of paint being chipped off
"Future" is an acyrlic floor wax used for polishing linoleum and tile in a house. It is a clear water-based liquid that makes a very nice shine. Straight out of the bottle, it is a good finishing coat for model automobiles. You can dilute it with water to "thin" it, depending on how much detail there is on the model. It can be sprayed with an airbrush or applied with a paint brush and it won't leave brush marks.
For a WW2 airplane, the only application I can think of for it would be (1) to remove scratches in the canopy or (2) as a base coat onto which you would apply decals (the decals will stick very well to the glossy finish of "Future" floor wax and no "ghosting").
I heard of one instance where a fellow painted his model, then applied "Future" floor wax where the decals would go, let it dry then applied the decals, let those dry and then applied a second coat of Future to strengthen and seal the decals, let those dry and then sprayed with a flat finish.
I hope you are planning a diorama for the P-47. :)
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"Btw, what exactly is future?"
http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html
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Originally posted by Westy
"Btw, what exactly is future?"
http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html
THAT is a very useful weblink, sir!
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Wow thank you guys!
I can really use the stuff to remove scratches from the canopies!
As you know, I have many old models from which I have spilled paint over the canopies, I can now scratch the paint away, use the Future and all will be clear again!
Thanks thanks thanks!
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Just make sure you use very, very fine sandpaper.
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Glad to help. I don't have a lot of time to do any models right now but I try to stay current on new tips and methods. I do have a few models waiting in the wings which I will get to one of these years I guess but in the meantime I'm content to read a the talk on this webboard:
http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/default.asp
The Tips and advice for making models have helped me restore parts for my 69 Cougar conv, several antique radios as well as a pre-WWII tin lithograph Lionel toy train set for use around our Christmas tree each year.
"I can really use the stuff to remove scratches from the canopies!"
http://s96920072.onlinehome.us/tnt1/001-100/TNT037_Polishing_Canopies/tnt037.htm
I would recommend some very fine plastic polish for removing scratches. I use Baremetal plastic polish and it also works great on restoring CD's and DVD's too :)
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Gofaster, very nice work!
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For weathering effects:
Get an airbrush. Its one of the best investments I've made for modelling. With it you can add dirt, engine exhaust black near the exhaust pipe areas (not sure what theyre called). If you get one, work with it some and figure out what you can do with it. Its great once you figure it out.
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Originally posted by Roscoroo
Looks in ........... "Sighs"
Looks at the Huge box hiding in top of closet (Full of models)
Eyes the small disaster in the living room.........
Looks at the 3 yr old ...... "Sighs"
Great model work guys .
Me too! Once long ago I played lots of M&M a minitures flight sim Game and was working on collecting all the WWII stuff in 72scale. And along come my two youngest.... I have 98 models in boxes waiting to emerge again.. but sadly no one plays M&M any more
But there is hope My youngest is now 13 and soon I can crack out the models again.
Gunns
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Originally posted by United
For weathering effects:
Get an airbrush. Its one of the best investments I've made for modelling. With it you can add dirt, engine exhaust black near the exhaust pipe areas (not sure what theyre called). If you get one, work with it some and figure out what you can do with it. Its great once you figure it out.
Lol Bob, I already had one...
but thanks anyway :)
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Originally posted by Roscoroo
Looks in ........... "Sighs"
Looks at the Huge box hiding in top of closet (Full of models)
Eyes the small disaster in the living room.........
Looks at the 3 yr old ...... "Sighs"
Great model work guys .
I feel your pain Roscorro,
I have a box full of models, mostly of Jets but a nice 1:72 190D9, In the Garage.
In the closet I've got 3 1:48 Warbirds, still in the box never opened, 1 1:48 Tamiya Fw190A3 fuselage assembled and painted partially. Along with a 1:32 Bf109G2 and a 1:32 Fw190 I've been painting the cockpit for what seems like months.
Oh Well, One day I'll have a room where nothing can be disturbed by women or cats.
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Hahah doh...
I have in total about 100 models (mostly 2nd WW warbirds) which I have nicely displayed on custom-made shelves troughout my bedroom.
Im gonna need another selve i'm afraid...
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Originally posted by NUKE
Gofaster, very nice work!
Thanks!
If I get a moment, I'll shoot some of my other dioramas, including one of a crashed 109. Not my best work, but made for some good experimentation.
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Alot of my older models have...crashed too :)