Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: AKDejaVu on March 05, 2000, 05:07:00 PM
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I'm not a very good pilot. I'm a pretty piss-poor gunner. I haven't read Shaw's and I really don't know squat about ACM. All I really have going for me is decent SA.
Why is it that I can do so well in the arena?
Anyone have any theories as to why this may be?
AKDejaVu
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well realistic or not, this is a game and anyone can do well in it by just observing what works and what does not work.
maybe your better than you think you are (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) which is always much more desirable than thinking you are better than you are (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) or better yet dont waste time thinking about it and just have fun (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Citabria
"There Is No Spoon"
[This message has been edited by Citabr (edited 03-05-2000).]
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Instincts
I don't read books and I have no idea what the names of moves are or really what moves there are to do but I do well by doing what feels right at that time.
Kieren and I talk about this from time to time. He's a good pilot because he knows what every AC can do and what a good pilot should do to stay alive.
Me I fly by the seat of my pants not knowing why I just turned sharp but damn glad I did because a 51 I didn't see just zoomed by me. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif)
The pilots that are most dangerous are the ones like Kieren who know the AC AND have good instincts.
Just a thought. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mighty1
The New Baby Harp Seals
"Come try to club THIS Seal"
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
I'm not a very good pilot. I'm a pretty piss-poor gunner. I haven't read Shaw's and I really don't know squat about ACM. All I really have going for me is decent SA.
Why is it that I can do so well in the arena?
Anyone have any theories as to why this may be?
AKDejaVu
Thats the best job of a person kissing their own prettythang I have ever seen! LMAO (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Thats the best job of a person kissing their own prettythang I have ever seen!
*Someone* needs to work on his self esteem.You
won`t build it up by continually trying to tear others down.Or is *this* your problem? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
(http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/images/embarrasing.jpg)
You seem to have a mean streak both here and in the arena varmit,the good thing is I can squelch you in there. (always do) Sure wish I could do it here as well,theres a big difference in "taunting" and being nasty-why don`t you work on it,you need some practice. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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(http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/images/victory.gif)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
[This message has been edited by weazel (edited 03-05-2000).]
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Yet, another JPG that I will send to my boss tomorrow from an AnoNyMoUs Email (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Saw/Saintaw
KNIGHT'S FINEST FLYING BRICK
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/dorasaw.gif)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
"Firepower Mate, that is what separates the men from the boys..."
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 03-05-2000).]
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None of this is real it is a universe created in a super computer and fead directly into your brain. It is designed so it reads your brain and creates a perfect world from your prespective. This means you should be the greatest virtual pilot that has ever lived with a perfect score to reflect this (i.e. no deaths) the rest of your life should be similar (i.e. perfect) - Unfortunatly your mind is so screwed up with various nuroses and self loathing that you cannot allow this perfect world to exsist therefore you are only achieving partial sucess and still think you are a crap pilot.
The question you will (or should be) asking yourself is why am i in this simulation. Well the truth is you were born aire to the alterian throne (meaning you control all planets surrounding apha centuari) unfortunatly for you after you evil uncle was made your godfather he killed the king so his power would pass to you, but you been 3 years old at the time meant this power went to your godfather (evil uncle) untill you were 14 and could claim back the power. Your uncle being evil had no intention of relinquishing this power so created this virtual to keep you trapped unable to claim your rightful place.
Which is a shame really because being king means all the beer you can drink and sheep on demand - oh well toejam happens.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by weazel:
*Someone* needs to work on his self esteem.You
won`t build it up by continually trying to tear others down.Or is *this* your problem? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
(http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/images/embarrasing.jpg)
You seem to have a mean streak both here and in the arena varmit,the good thing is I can squelch you in there. (always do) Sure wish I could do it here as well,theres a big difference in "taunting" and being nasty-why don`t you work on it,you need some practice. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
1. Weazle, most people, other than low IQ types like yourself understand that was a joke. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
2. Nice self-portrait
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tsk tsk tsk tsk,coyote...poor answer...VERY poor...
And BTW is REALLY sad that a SO GOOD pilot as you is SO AWFUL man...plz improve yourself...then maybe I'll unsquelch you.
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Ram, out
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
(http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/images/Ram.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 03-05-2000).]
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AK,
I really don't think ACM/Shaw is a major factor in arena play. "Dog Fighting" only plays a small part in actual scoring. From what I've read the majority of the expert's on all sides avoided "fair fights" at all cost's (the german's in particular). With a few notable exception's I've noticed the same thing here. SA probably acounts for 80% of arena play, most of the high scores engage when they have an edge and exit when things are less than ideal.
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I disagree hmble, when you see one of the real "aces" come into the arena (Hristo, aper or torque come to mind as wel as Mitsu) its rather like a fox let loose in a chicken coop. Whether they have advantage or not for the most part your a dead duck if you choose to engage them. This is pure ACM and experience screaming out. And I think these people are perfectly capable of upsetting the main arena by showing up...
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You guys have missed the unseen point here. The picture thats posted is proof that pollution is causing some serious genetic mutations!
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Originally posted by RAM:
tsk tsk tsk tsk,coyote...poor answer...VERY poor...
And BTW is REALLY sad that a SO GOOD pilot as you is SO AWFUL man...plz improve yourself...then maybe I'll unsquelch you.
LOL RAM, Bite me! Why should I care if you have me squelched? You must be under the false ASSumption that your opinion on anything is important to ME. I fly this sim to KILL people(and yes I KNOW I am not really "killing" anyone so don't even give a thought to that weak "come back" LOL) Now take your plastic banana and go hug a tree or something, mebe it will be your "friend" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Coyote
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Well DejaVu if you fly anything with the word "Spit" that can offload whatever handicap in skill you may have...
Can spitfire's be beaten, Hell yes.. Are they harder to down when flown by a even semi competant pilot than say a fw190 flown by expert.. Yes again, the spit is harder to kill...
Everyone always thinks pilot has so much to do with being effective in general arena. I agree it is a big factor but the other half of the equation is plane type..
In a 109g10 im a demigod....in a 109f4 im very mortal....but effective..
I noted your kill stats and sorry for implying you fly dweebfire. You fly dweeb hog instead my bad..
Skill has nothing to due with 8th sec spray/pray bursts on happless targets with .o5 gunnery...
Anytime you want to see how good you are hop in a 109f4 and go around general arena. Anytime you want to see how good you are challenge me to a duel in your dweeb hog, and we will go TA and duke it out....
Or even better dont fly dweeb hog, just fly the normal hog and see how you do... Then post back here after say 5 sorties.. But we all know you wont do that.. that may tarnish your score a bit.
my 2 cents
DoctorYO
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i fly Hog ... after flying C-Hog a lot i figured it's even easier to kill with the cal.050's because of their very flat trajectory .. and you can put a LOT of lead into the air.
it's just the ping snap shot kills on 109's im missing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
allways good to kill a "demigod" LOL
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(http://members.aon.at/duckwing6/dw601.gif)
Phillip "Duckwing6" Artweger
Flight Officer "E" Flight
Skeleton Crew (http://www.picknowl.com.au/homepages/oneshot/main.htm)
[This message has been edited by Duckwing6 (edited 03-07-2000).]
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I noted your kill stats and sorry for implying you fly dweebfire. You fly dweeb hog instead my bad..
Ah.. nothing like the tone of a smug LW pilot to set things straight. I thank you for pointing out that its simply the plane I fly that causes all the misundestanding.
Voila! problem solved.
AKDejaVu
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lol! too funny! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) you have to love these message boards hehe.
Belive in yourself AK (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
(http://www.rsaf.org/osf/images/osf_inga.gif)
http://www.rsaf.org/osf/ (http://www.rsaf.org/osf/)
[This message has been edited by Maniac (edited 03-07-2000).]
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...when you see one of the real "aces" come into the arena (Hristo, aper or torque come to mind as wel as Mitsu)...
I've never had a "fair fight" with Histro or Mitsu that I can remember. If I ever do get one it'll be a mistake on there part (and yes they'll most probably kill me). Once in a great while I'll run into aper roughly in equal position, but it's rare...as for torque, he is a pure killing machine and IMO he is all SA and gunnery. Pilot skill is a factor but the really "high scorers" tend to fly smarter..not better. They only rely on that "pilot stuff" when they run out of better option's.
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GEEZ!
Can hardly read these threads due to all the egos puffed up all over the place!
The pilots I respect the most are the ones that kick bellybutton and don't go around pattin themselves on the back all the damned time. Anyone ever hear Garner braggin about how he's a "demigod"? I mean, a huge ego goes a little way for personality entertainment, and I don't mind a good swagger now and again, but MAN, this is intense.
Vila
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All y'all know you's my squeakes. I'm better then all of you combined. You can kiss my rosy redneck ass, and eat my .50's.
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-Rebel
JG2 "Richtofen"
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Actually Vila, you are correct.
I respect you and Garner very much as I've flown against both of you quite a bit. I must say I've shot you down quite a bit more than Garn tho (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)... though that's been a few years now.
The wierd thing is... I'm not a good pilot. I can't kill the legends of the game and have no pretences as far as what would happen if I went H2H with 50% of the players in the game.
I was trying more to elude to how people are flying. I was hoping to see a little more on target selection, aproach selection and such. Not a "I'm better than all of you" type of discussion. Nor a "well its obviously the plane you fly" discussion.
Could it be that things like avoiding HOs, concentrating on identifying immediate threats vs. lower priority ones... knowing when to stay and fight and when to run... knowing that a plane thats below you doesn't necessarily mean it has less e... that things like that actually matter?
I've flown with wingmen and without. I usually do better with a wingman, though I've had my moments flying solo. I don't have pretences of going into a furball and shooting down everything with a red Icon. I've seen those that do it and am constantly ammazed. I simply know how badly I fly and wonder how it is possible that my stats come anywhere near these guys?
Basically, I'd like to promote smarter flying. You don't necessarily have to be a good pilot to fly smart. If a friendly is behind an enemy... that may be a bad time to HO the enemy. If an enemy is focussed on a frienly's 6... that may be a good time to focus on his 6. The VERY simple things like that. I simply don't see them happening from 90% of the pilots flying right now.
The wierd thing is, most of the pilots on will be more than happy to tell you about all the sim experience they have. Its not like it is a bunch of newbies running around asking how to start the plane. RTFM isn't something that is being thrown around here.
I guess what I'm saying is I'd like to have much better stats. The easiest way to do that is to surround yourself by good pilots that make smart decisions. I can't really help much on ACM, but I think everyone has good information on how to make killing easier.
AKDejaVu
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Coyote;
While I can't say that your comments are mean. I can say that they could possibly be considered de-meaning.
I don't often find your your comments funny either. On a hunch, I can guess that you really don't care.
I did however, find that picture with the guy up is "Kazoo" pretty amusing. Nice one Weazel! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
Trainer
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> lol! too funny! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) you have to love these message boards hehe.
Maniac, you read my mind! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I was actually lol and thinking the same thing before I got to your post!
BTW, love your "Independent Swedish Airforce" graphic. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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AKDejaVu doing well is all a matter of perspective, the most important thing is to have fun.
Most of the Topguns have been fly’n for years, so chin up mate it’s just a matter of time. (http://members.home.net/torqss/fox_with_sheep_md_clr.gif)
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--- AKDejaVu: ---
I don't have pretences of going into a furball and shooting down everything with a red Icon. I've seen those that do it and am constantly ammazed. I simply know how badly I fly and wonder how it is possible that my stats come anywhere near these guys?
--- end ---
Maybe because the stats have little to do with who is good or who is not? Well I guess it depends what you regard as criteria to be 'good' in the first place. For me it's 1-on-1 duel ACM. If you personaly consider smart ( or safe ) flying to mark wether someone is good, then the stats will reflect that kind of pilot's ability more accurately.
If someone good in 1-on-1 goes and flies off in the arena challenging everyone into really tight dogfights, he is going to die a lot. Once in a while killing the whole furball of planes, which makes it all worth while. His stats will be quite low, but he is still good IMO.
If you take these two group of pilots: ACM and Safe, make them switch styles - the ACM pilots will generally do much better than the Safe pilots trying to fly ACM. The other style just generates higher stats automaticly wether it is your aim or not, so if you compare your stats ( safe flying? ) to someone really into dogfights it's apples to oranges.
//fats
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AKDV,
I wasn't actually referring to you there, though, as others have said "doing well" is all relative :) I have no pretentions that I'm as good as garner in a 1 on 1 fight... I'm not, but I've managed to nail him in the past by flying tactically smart... so I agree with your point. Someone who is average-good in flying and shooting can do very well by flying smart tactically.
Fats brings up a good point... what do YOU think makes a "good" fighter pilot? For fats it's pure 1 on 1 ACM deulling (presumably in a neutral start, in comparable aircraft). While I find that kind of skill interesting, it's only part of the picture in terms of actual air combat scenarios. If I was only interested in ACM, I'd be a spitfire guy :). I'm interested in the whole picture.... The positioning BEFORE the fight, the ability to dictate the terms of the fight, the actual ACM, and the end game (winning,attempting to disengage, or losing). ANd a big portion of the picture we don't usually see in AH.... the effect on the mission. These planes were designed to accomplish specific missions, and when employed in the way they were intended, I usually find it kind of cool to see that the designers weren't nuts after all :). SO in summary, for ME, pure ACM ability is only part of the picture.
Personally, I fly in a variety of styles. When I have lotsa time to climb to altitude and pick my targets, I like to fly a little safe, and fly for streak. I personally find this the most rewarding aspect to simming. OTOH, sometimes I don't have as much time, I'm just itching to get in a fight, and I'll engage regarless of bad positioning, numbers, etc. It just depends on my mood. Personally I used to like to be able to clear my score when it suited me, so I could sorta "seperate my moods" but what the heck.
Now, the score potatos are another issue. A certain high scoring pilot who used to fly here was certainly good, but he was very careful to rarely be in a position of risk... and more than one of his kills came from poaching wounded targets from countrymen who had risked themselves for the victory, but thankfully, he's not here anymore.
Vila
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I pretty much agree with vila and have seen fats fly enough to know that he does to. I just don't remember the last time I saw you come in with an alt disadvantage Fats (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Not saying you don't mix it up... just that you like to chose the terms on wich the fight occurs.
Basically, even for those that get in and mix it up without regards to score, you are still fighting with regards to surviving as long as possible. The hopes are to kill until you run out of ammo or enemy... wichever comes first. Is this done by diving from 8k up so that you can get a HO pass on the oncoming enemy? While others are now higher than you?
ACM is a critical factor. Positioning is even more critical. The classic rope-a-dope move is not ACM... it is tactics. My favorite kills to see have been when I executed the tactic perfectly and my wingman swoops in to get the nearly stopped aircraft as it hangs in the air. Actually learning to come in behind an aircraft is more than just ACM... its situational awareness. Learning to predict what a plane is going to do helps considerably too. Everything added up makes the use of ACM seem minor in comparison.
AKDejaVu
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Wow, just read this thread, hehe...where's Tern when ya need him (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) JK, Tern!
Vila,
Garn: the BEST pilot I've ever seen/winged with in 15 years of flight simming...hands down. The most modestest individual in the world. Of course, this is from my "fighter pilot-ego" perspective.
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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~ XO
Aces High Training Corps
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/190srip.gif)
"Some people are only alive because it is illegal to shoot them."
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-08-2000).]
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Garn: the BEST pilot I've ever seen/winged with in 15 years of flight simming...hands down.
I didn't really fly against Garn since we both flew for frogs back in the old days. I used to be able to amass long kill streaks just by hanging around him in a dora. He'd get everyone low and slow in a knife fight and I'd simply hang back and pick off any unwelcome late comers. They'd totally ignore me as they felt that Garn was the only real threat. I'd watch him in 5:1 battles virtually every time. I'd vulch 2 of them and Garn would have already nailed the other 3. I always felt that when that happened, I was simply robbing him of 2 more kills rather than actually helping him.
AKDejaVu
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LOL; An interesting thread!
I'm with out doubt the best example you'll ever find of the scoreboard lying about pilot quality.
I absolutly agree with Vila; his view of the relative merits of flying smart vs direct ACM is in harmony with mine. But even flying smart is not rewarded with the AH score model.
In ACM I am about average; probably worse than average because I like to turn an AC that shouldn't be flown that way. What no doubt hands me a 'score' edge is my habit of flying the sim from a strategic perspective. I tend to look at the map and ask myself how I can change it. Then I go about doing just that.
Frankly; I don't give a rats bellybutton about scores and I wish the scoring system more closely reflected the pilot's ACM and SA acuity rather than strategic acuity. Then I'd be waaaaaay down the list where I belong. The only reason the score card has me where I am is because I fly the Map more than the furballs. While this is without doubt a lot of fun; flying the GAME instead of the PLANE should not be confused with being a good pilot.
In any case; from my perspective, it seems that the better pilots are always the ones on my six. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I'd sure like to see someone at HTC set up a comp ladder and BBS header; this would be a heluva lotta fun, and reduce the chaff about who's a demi-god; or not. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Salute all!
Hang
TDY/357th Pony Express
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<cough> Drex enough said (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)