Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: mosgood on June 03, 2004, 09:16:15 AM
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http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040603/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_soldiers__regrets_1
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Things you never see or hear about on US national news..
dude
AoM
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I hope they turn it into a book. I'd buy it.
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It would be even more refreshing to hear some Arab confessions of less than civilized behavior.
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Originally posted by ra
It would be even more refreshing to hear some Arab confessions of less than civilized behavior.
Something like "My life as a terrorist" ?
would be interesting
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the Israeli military is as EVIL as Booshs!!!
down with USA/Israel - up with the Pals/Iraqis and their civilized ways!!!
lets try to make another mountain out of another molehill...
:rolleyes:
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Eagler
so you now see the US and Isreal as one entity?
You gota just accept it boy. Bad things happen when you oppress people. Its not that supprising.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Eagler
so you now see the US and Isreal as one entity?
You gota just accept it boy. Bad things happen when you oppress people. Its not that supprising.
no I don't
and who is the US "oppressing" exactly Mr Michael Moore Pongo?
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Originally posted by Eagler
the Israeli military is as EVIL as Booshs!!!
down with USA/Israel - up with the Pals/Iraqis and their civilized ways!!!
lets try to make another mountain out of another molehill...
:rolleyes:
Eagler,
Wow.... talk about being defensive. A group of Israeli soldiers admite to stuff they did and you immediately go on the defensive on how this is saying Bush is evil.... you should think about changing your name from eagler to Pavlovs Dog.
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most US/Israel haters see the US/Israel as one enitity - as if when i fart, someone in Israel can smell it
just look at Micheal Moore Pongos very next post ....
the fact remains this will be blown up by the media to portray the Israeli military as evil, the pals as victims j as our loser running the sandflea prison ARE our military latest face to those against us and this admin...
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Isreal is on the verge of becomeing what they hated most. Nazi Germany. It is hard to side with isreal when you have their own troops admitting that the jewish people do not see the arabs as human beings anymore.
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Originally posted by Eagler
most US/Israel haters see the US/Israel as one enitity - as if when i fart, someone in Israel can smell it
just look at Micheal Moore Pongos very next post ....
the fact remains this will be blown up by the media to portray the Israeli military as evil, the pals as victims j as our loser running the sandflea prison ARE our military latest face to those against us and this admin...
How is this blown up? All they did was take direct quotes from the soldiers on the field. Are you going to tell me that you know more then they do now?
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Israel is practising apartheid in its most disgusting form but that kind of people gives some hope that things will change some day.
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That's funny. I thought they were trying to keep their kids from being blown up at the mall while the PLO and Hamas refuse to negotiate a settlement.
By the way, having the Israelis all up and die isn't really a fair bargin.
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" Another tells of how his commander held up a wedding procession during a curfew, stopping the bride and groom, dressed in their best clothes, by taking away their car keys. He smiled as the bride cried.
Them Nazi wannabe's!
Whats next? Throwing their wedding cake back into ovens to over cook it?!
You retards.
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Originally posted by Dune
That's funny. I thought they were trying to keep their kids from being blown up at the mall while the PLO and Hamas refuse to negotiate a settlement.
By the way, having the Israelis all up and die isn't really a fair bargin.
If the un decided to let canada annex america and start throwing you out of your home while hockey loving molsen drinking canadians moved in, wouldn't you be a bit upset?
The simple fact is that both sides are in the wrong. It is up to Isreal, since they have real power to kick out the settlers, to make the first non violent moves. If you do not think giving palistine back their country will not help, your a fool.
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Define help.
I am all for Israel pulling out of Gaza and the West Bank. And then building a nice, big razor-wire topped wall all around Israel. Because I'll be that the Pals need Israel much more than Israel needs the Pals. Let them take advantage of their Jordanian citizenship. What is a Palestinian without a home called? A refugee. What is a Pal with a home called? A Jordanian.
Secondly, if you think that doing that will pacify Hamas or the Islamic Jihad, you haven't been paying attention. They don't want a country, they want Israel.
And don't give me that tired, "If the UN gave Wyoming to Canada or let the Pals move into Florida, wouldn't you be upset". First off, the question must be when they are going to get past it? History is nothing more than a collection of one people moving into another's land. From the British and Americans screwing the Indians to the Normans screwing the Saxxons. Whatever.
And if the UN gave Israel that land, why aren't the Pals blowing up the blue helmets?
But back to your question, will it help? Yes, if it happened in some Utopia that doesn't reflect the present reality of the Pal mindset. The people with the real power in the PA are the ones with the guns. And their main goal is the destruction of Israel. They will not allow a settlement to be reached because it would undermine their powerbase. If Israel backs out of Gaza and the West Bank, the Pals form some type of decent gov't and everyone is happy, what do they do with themselves. Hating Israel is their job. It's all they've known for 60 years. They have built a culture on one goal, the destruction of Israel. Anything less is a defeat.
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Originally posted by Creamo
" Another tells of how his commander held up a wedding procession during a curfew, stopping the bride and groom, dressed in their best clothes, by taking away their car keys. He smiled as the bride cried.
Them Nazi wannabe's!
Whats next? Throwing their wedding cake back into ovens to over cook it?!
You retards.
One recounts how a comrade of his threw a stun grenade at Palestinian children "just to relieve the boredom."
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
Things you never see or hear about on US national news..
dude
AoM
the rest of the world sees this stuff on a daily basis...it was only in the past 10 days that a high ranking israeli official compared what israel does to the palesinians to what nazi's did to jews
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my sense of balance must be off... I find that calling the jews nazis over the things mentioned while at the same time justifying stapping high explosives on your body and stepping into a school yard to detonate or... opening up with machine guns on busses and school yards or in the market place...
well.... I have a feeling that I would be a lot more comfortable living around the jewish "nazis" who for some reason look at the latter group as less than human.
neither may be completetly right but the latter group are so far beyond the pale as to be..... inhuman.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
neither may be completetly right but the latter group are so far beyond the pale as to be..... inhuman.
lazs
It's amazing what decades of propaganda can do to people's minds. Just look at Boroda and you know what I'm talking about.
99.9% of people you're talking about are just ordinary people who are trying to keep their childrens in safe and get some food for them.
It's that 0,1 percent who gets their names in news and after some succesfull mind manipulation you're ready to put a sign "inhuman" on all of them (exaggerated, I know you're wiser than that).
btw who has tried to justify killing innocent civilians?
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Originally posted by lazs2
my sense of balance must be off... I find that calling the jews nazis over the things mentioned while at the same time justifying stapping high explosives on your body and stepping into a school yard to detonate or... opening up with machine guns on busses and school yards or in the market place...
well.... I have a feeling that I would be a lot more comfortable living around the jewish "nazis" who for some reason look at the latter group as less than human.
neither may be completetly right but the latter group are so far beyond the pale as to be..... inhuman.
lazs
Say Hi to your Utopia where everyone is armed, Lazs ;)
Ravs
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My boss threw a distraction device (read: Stun Grenade) at me once because he was bored.
It wasn't all that bad, and besides, the leftover empty hull gave them there Palestian kids more ammunition to throw back at the Israeli's. :lol
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Originally posted by lazs2
my sense of balance must be off........
lazs
Lemme balance ya up here. Remember these facts.
1) People who strap bombs to themselves and blow up bus loads of kids are freedom fighters, justified in their actions and looked upon with envy by your local Ameerika haters.
2) Any American armed with a feather duster qualifies as a loathsom and despicable terrorist, Nazi or serial killer. Anything as long as its really really bad.
Clear?
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mmm Tumor,
You must have been the champion of your local debating society.
Nobody on these boards, at least nobody I have seen, says that the brutality that Palestinians commit against Israelies is morally correct or justified.
Some people on these boards do see why, after years of being denied any form of effective citizenship, seen relatives being shot or blown up, had their houses destroyed, some Palestinians might resort to such acts, for a variety of reasons. It doesn't make it right, but the reaction is understandable. Those people also understand that when these reactions take place and the Jews respond in kind, you end up with an escalating cycle of violence.
Those same people on these boards also understand that if you treat people in extreme ways, their reactions are likely to be extreme
Pretty much the same people on these boards seem to understand that your average Palestinian, given the right living conditions, human rights etc. would probably be productive citizens whose ambitions would look no further than upgrading their computer, buying a new car, getting a pay rise...you know the stuff most of us tend to find reasonably important in our day to day lives.
And I would guess those same people on these boards realise that the people who are in the position to begin this process of providing Palestinians with living conditions in which they can realistically aspire to these aims are the Israelis and by proxy the U.S.
The problem is that the process is not an 'instant' one. You are not going to reverse years of mutual brutalisation by waving some sort of magic wand. It is a process. And processes take time.
There are no 'good guys' or 'bad guys' when one speaks of populations of people.
Clear?
Ravs
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I just noticed in the news that US congress is asking if there should be an independent investigation done about events at Tiananmen square in China but when same was/is happening in Gaza/ WestBank then United States is using its Veto to prevent the investigatons and resolutions.
Why is that?
Edit: From BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3772629.stm)
The US Congress resolution condemns "the ongoing and egregious human rights abuses" in China, and urges the government to order an independent inquiry into the events 15 years ago.
The resolution is expected to be put to the vote in Washington on Thursday.
The human rights organisation Amnesty International has also called for an independent inquiry into the Tiananmen massacre.
Hell all I can do is laugh at your politicians :lol
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same was/is happening in Gaza/ WestBank
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Staga
Hell all I can do is laugh at your politicians :lol
Too bad we can't find a reason to care :lol
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I see you grasp well the situation in Pal. there RAV.....
Now explain to these fine gentlemens on this here board why they teach there kids in school about hating the Jew.
Now explain to these fine gentlemens on this here board why there religion teaches to hate the Jew.
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Originally posted by ravells
mmm Tumor,
You must have been the champion of your local debating society.
Why join the debate society when your always right?
Nobody on these boards, at least nobody I have seen, says that the brutality that Palestinians commit against Israelies is morally correct or justified.
How conveniently unobservant of you :)
Some people on these boards do see why, after years of being denied any form of effective citizenship, seen relatives being shot or blown up, had their houses destroyed, some Palestinians might resort to such acts, for a variety of reasons. It doesn't make it right, but the reaction is understandable. Those people also understand that when these reactions take place and the Jews respond in kind, you end up with an escalating cycle of violence.
Ya think?
Those same people on these boards also understand that if you treat people in extreme ways, their reactions are likely to be extreme
YOUR KIDDING??!!
Pretty much the same people on these boards seem to understand that your average Palestinian, given the right living conditions, human rights etc. would probably be productive citizens whose ambitions would look no further than upgrading their computer, buying a new car, getting a pay rise...you know the stuff most of us tend to find reasonably important in our day to day lives.
Right... just as soon as every Isreali has been removed (from earth).
And I would guess those same people on these boards realise that the people who are in the position to begin this process of providing Palestinians with living conditions in which they can realistically aspire to these aims are the Israelis and by proxy the U.S.
So... mmmm... what would those of that country who set this deal up doing about it? :rofl
The problem is that the process is not an 'instant' one. You are not going to reverse years of mutual brutalisation by waving some sort of magic wand. It is a process. And processes take time.
Well PhD Ravells... how kind of you to enlighten me with your spectacular wisdom.
There are no 'good guys' or 'bad guys' when one speaks of populations of people.
Clear?
:rofl I've been lectured... OH THE SORROW! I think I must now humbly avert my eye's for his Highness has spoken :rolleyes:
Ravs
:rolleyes:
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Like I been saying.
One side is no more innocent then the other
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I've been lectured... OH THE SORROW! I think I must now humbly avert my eye's for his Highness has spoken
Good, now go forth and use thy brain! :)
Ravs
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Originally posted by SLO
I see you grasp well the situation in Pal. there RAV.....
Now explain to these fine gentlemens on this here board why they teach there kids in school about hating the Jew.
Now explain to these fine gentlemens on this here board why there religion teaches to hate the Jew.
Sure.
I don't know if 'Jew Hating' is one of the subjects on the curriculum which they fit in between 'bomb making 101' and 'home reconstruction'. But yes, you can probably see why some teachers might say that the Jews are to be hated because of the cycle of violence. I expect there are Zionist Jewish teachers in Israel saying pretty much the same thing to their students about Palestinians. As the article mosgood posted said:
"The day you arrive, a little Jewish boy comes to bring coffee and thanks you for defending him, and the next day you are patrolling and you see the same boy with a group of other children throwing stones and beating with sticks an old Palestinian," he said.
I expect those kids picked up the behavioral imperative from somewhere.
As to the Palestinians' religion teaching jew hating, which one are you referring to? There are Muslim and Christian Palestinians. Neither of those religions advocates hatred against the Jews, although if I'm wrong on that feel free to show me the passages in the Koraan and/or Bible which instruct the followers of that religion that Jews should be hated.
Ravs
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actually... there is very little crime in the country where "everyone is armed" (real life numbers are 20% concealed carry permit holders) and... they have prevented public shootings or ended them quickly.
Would I rather live with the armed jews than the mad bomber palestinianes? in a heart beat. The brutality that is part and parcel of the arab world is not for me... if the jews treated their women like the arabs do we would hear the hand wriging and tears hitting the floor 24/7 on this board.
the hypocracy of the left is overwhelming sometimes.
lazs
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But it's not all about 'crime' in the sense of people who use guns to rob. In this case it's about what is effectively a civil war where arms appear very easy to come by - but then from a totally economic standpoint, where there is a demand, the supply will follow.
Funnily enough jewish women have their cultural problems (http://www.jcpa.org/jcprg3.htm) in relation to the denial of human rights too. The only societies that I have seen that have taken women's rights seriously are secular societies. That said, I know quite a few muslim women (in fact, I share an office with one) and they don't feel oppressed in any way at all. [edit] although I agree far too many muslim women are treated terribly [edit]
Frankly, I wouldn't want to live either in Israel or the Occupied territories. Everyone there seems a bit too trigger happy for me.
But here's the interesting thing:
Extremist muslims believe that women, should be kept out of politics altogether. Under strict Shariah Law, thieves get their hands chopped off, (ok, so they're not shot by the homeowner, but hey, it's not a bad second choice), murderers get the death sentence.
Could be you have more in common with strict Islamic tenets than you realise, Lazs!
Ravs
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Originally posted by lazs2
the hypocracy of the left is overwhelming sometimes.
lazs
wow lazs.. your skipping again.. plz tend that scratch in your record..
as some on this board so love to point out, Ravs does not reside here in america. Why must he be labeled as one? Cant he simply be a peaceful person with an opinion?? Left hypocracy? Com'on guy... Grow past your need to label..... :)
dude
AoM
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Originally posted by lazs2
I have a feeling that I would be a lot more comfortable living around the jewish "nazis" who for some reason look at the latter group as less than human. lazs
Yup, and I'm sure those Jewish "nazis" are gonna looove that little SS tattoo you still have that helps you remind yourself of how far you've come.:aok
You'll be the first receipent of a new type of dance, called the "Jerusalem Jolly Stomp." When you wake up in the ER, I'll be there to tell you all about it :rofl
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I have had several surgeries by jewish doctors who were well aware of my SS tatoos and asked me about em. they did exceptional work.
rav... I think it is a matter of perspective.. certainly none of us would like to live in a place where daily terrorist attacks took place but if it were my homeland I certainly would like to be armed. As for women and human rights... again, perspective... the arabs are so abusive that to compare them to the jews is pretty silly.. The jews would have to be about 100 times worse than they are in order to even compare the two. What I feel about womens rights is not the issue here... the issue is that you seem to be ignoring something the arabs do that would cause hand wringing and multiple daily postings here if the jews did half as much.
Crime in isreal is low.. the real danger is from arab terr.. er, freedom fighters. Other than that it is a pretty safe place to live. Swedens citizens have military weapons. I would not worry about that if I were there.
lazs
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Yes, it's a matter of perspective.
This problem of domestic violence exists everywhere, but women's rights in the Arab world and parts of Africa and Asia are particularly poor. Frankly, I think it is a terrible problem, and yes, I entirely agree with you that domestic abuse (my gut tells me as I have not seen any comparative stats) is far more prevalent in Arab and African societies than in Jewish society. Many arab and African societies have a long way to go on this one for sure.
That said, what is the relevance of domestic violence if the topic of conversation is political violence and the idea of statehood etc.
Sure if the post was about women's rights and domestic violence and the Arab world, I'd be the first to point the finger, but recognising that we in the west have a way to go on issues of domestic violence ourselves.
Crime in Israel may be low, but I still wouldn't want to live there. I think I'd take Sweden.
Ravs
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I would take sweden too but... If every country were sweden.... the first one who decided not to be would rule the world.
lazs
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Saying Isrealis are just like Nazis is stoopid.
But I don't think it's unfair to say that some Isrealis believe in Nazis policies, specifically genocide.
Many of the pictures show settler graffiti calling for blood and revenge, another says "Palestinians to the gas chambers."
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Saying Isrealis are just like Nazis is stoopid.
But I don't think it's unfair to say that some Isrealis believe in Nazis policies, specifically genocide.
Many of the pictures show settler graffiti calling for blood and revenge, another says "Palestinians to the gas chambers."
actualy Propaganda in israel has been as good as Hitler's.... Just look how many years they are in "danger" and whats the progress... its funny to watch all those stupid arogant post from people whitch can not handle reality, from people who will never admit to beeing "brainwashed"
So in Israel are 150 000 people in the streets on riot agains politics in gaza, their soldiers post pictures of their crims and some poeple over here still only cry that we are US/israel haters
yeah what a surprise, that you have no words in sutch situation
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Originally posted by ravells
Yes, it's a matter of perspective.
This problem of domestic violence exists everywhere, but women's rights in the Arab world and parts of Africa and Asia are particularly poor.
Yup Ravs. But it depend on every single country. Did you note that most poor rights they have in most poor countries, mostly destroyed by long wars ?
Look at ritch countries in ME and check their situation.
Im afraid that domestical voilence is not smaller here. its only very well hidden. if you sometime read some materials about home voilance, you will find amazing numbers.
Sutch problem must be properly discovered, uncovered, before we will speak about some fixing.
LOL just found this news
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites) sacked two far-right ministers in a bid to ensure his Gaza pullout plan wins a majority in a weekend cabinet vote.(AFP/File/Tal Cohen)
viva democracy :D
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And we better dont ask about funny things like iraqi election.
On friday British comander said, that election can be held in June, but there are still some minor problems between fractions
On mondey Americans report that election is not technicaly possible.
and today ??
Carina Perelli, a senior UN elections expert, speaks to the press at the Coalition Provincial Authority (CPA) in Baghdad. The UN said that elections were technically possible to organize in Iraq (news - web sites) by late January.(AFP/Marwan Naamani)
naaaa i will not call US administration to be full of lairs... not realy... they are all poor vicims of bad information system, whitch keep most of them missinformed
:D
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Do you even comprehend why they are straping bombs onto themselves?
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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
Do you even comprehend why they are straping bombs onto themselves?
Do you? Seriously, whats your explaination?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Do you? Seriously, whats your explaination?
"When you do not know answer, answer question "
... Some old czech commie
:aok
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would love to hear stabbies explanation on how a person who straps explosives on with the sole purpose of killing as many women and children as possible or sprays down a school yard with an AK is any better than one who hears voices in his head telling him to do it.
would love to hear how that compares to what the jewish example given here.
sorry, but we don't get all the news here because of the jews so unless you can come up with something better than ruining a wedding party I'm going with mad bomber being the fruitcake nazi here.
lazs
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actualy ... masacres on wedding parties are quite popular these days and not only by lobotomized palestines
Somebody asked Grun something a bit diferent, so stay on theme lazs.
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yes... stashing weapons and having the whole wedding party shoot at helicopters is seldom a good idea... I know it would bring out the nazi in me. how bout you?
lazs
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Killing civilist has nothing to do with Nazis.
You probably do not even know who were Nazi. Its time to find another big word, whitch you will use for hidding.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I have had several surgeries by jewish doctors who were well aware of my SS tatoos and asked me about em. they did exceptional work.
rav... I think it is a matter of perspective.. certainly none of us would like to live in a place where daily terrorist attacks took place but if it were my homeland I certainly would like to be armed. As for women and human rights... again, perspective... the arabs are so abusive that to compare them to the jews is pretty silly.. The jews would have to be about 100 times worse than they are in order to even compare the two. What I feel about womens rights is not the issue here... the issue is that you seem to be ignoring something the arabs do that would cause hand wringing and multiple daily postings here if the jews did half as much.
Crime in isreal is low.. the real danger is from arab terr.. er, freedom fighters. Other than that it is a pretty safe place to live. Swedens citizens have military weapons. I would not worry about that if I were there.
lazs
SS tatoo's?? You were in the SS?
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lada.. who is this "we" you keep talking about? are you palestinien?
I wasn't the first here to use the word nazi... I don't think anyone is a nazi unless he is... a nazi. I was making fun of the idiots who call jews nazi's. I believe that the jews are acting much more civilized than the palestinians and that is all there is to it. I do not find it in the least odd that people who are the victims of mad suicide bombers and gunman spraying school yards ... that they would tend to dehumanize such animals.
the suicide bombers are not human.. they have given up their humanity. if caught they do deserve the gas chamber of leathal injection or whatever method is the current method of capital punishment. They are like sick dogs and they need to be put down. better luck in the next life I say.
shrade.. It was popular for come biker groups in the 70's and 80's to have nazi regalia along with nazi beliefs. I have allready stated before on this board that I held racist beliefs at one time in my life. I find it counter productive now. Waste of time. Much easier to take people as they present themselves.
lazs
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Originally posted by lada
Yup Ravs. But it depend on every single country. Did you note that most poor rights they have in most poor countries, mostly destroyed by long wars ?
Look at ritch countries in ME and check their situation.
Im afraid that domestical voilence is not smaller here. its only very well hidden. if you sometime read some materials about home voilance, you will find amazing numbers.
Sutch problem must be properly discovered, uncovered, before we will speak about some fixing.
Well, lada, it does depend on many factors.
Let's take a look at Saudi Arabia - a 'rich' middle eastern country relatively untroubled by war.
Here (http://www.hrw.org/wr2k2/mena7.html) is their human rights record. Frankly, it's abysmal. Racism and sexism is virtually institutionalised there. Hell, the US State department says this (http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/1999/426.htm) and the US is supposed to be Saudi's 'friend'.
Of course there are always going to be unreported domestic violence crimes in any society, but I'm willing to bet my bottom dollar that they are going to be far more unreported abuses in countries, like Saudi, where there are few or no structures for redress than, say in Europe.
Ravs
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Originally posted by lazs2
I believe that the jews are acting much more civilized than the palestinians and that is all there is to it. I do not find it in the least odd that people who are the victims of mad suicide bombers and gunman spraying school yards ... that they would tend to dehumanize such animals.
the suicide bombers are not human.. they have given up their humanity. if caught they do deserve the gas chamber of leathal injection or whatever method is the current method of capital punishment. They are like sick dogs and they need to be put down. better luck in the next life I say.
lazs
But Lasz, if you treat people like animals, they will act like animals. And whose fault is that?
Ravs
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Originally posted by ravells
But Lasz, if you treat people like animals, they will act like animals. And whose fault is that?
Ravs
Circular logic. They act like amimals because they're treated like animals. They're treated like animals because they act like animals. Still no solution.
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But if you look at it, the Israelis have the money, the education, the basic amenities of life (like water and electricity for all) and the military power. What have the Palestinians got? How many of those things are the Israelis willing to share?
[edit] if you create huge numbers in the 'underclass' whichever country you are talking about there is going to be a backlash. Look at Russia in 1917, or the civil rights movement in the US or the Tolpuddle marchers in Britain. It becomes even worse if people see they are consigned to the underclass from birth [edit]
I don't think it's circular at all.
Ravs
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Ravs, this is all very interesting, but I'm more interested in how you think the problem can be fixed. Personally, I don't think it can.
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If I knew the answer to that one, I would be collecting a nobel prize rather than posting on this BBS.
I suppose if I was pressed for an answer it would be for other countries to provide educational establishments for Palestinians and Israelis, outside of Israel to study alongside one another, but those establishments would have to be outside of Israel and with other nationalities.
I think pretty soon they would stop demonising each other, make friends and maybe even intermarry and have kids. Get to the last one and I think the problem is cracked. Who is a half jew half arab going to hate?
Religious difference is a tough one to get past, but I find that when you put teens together and their hormones are raging (first love and all that sort of thing), it's about the biggest force you can bring to bear against any other form of brainwashing.
Ravs
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Originally posted by ravells
If I knew the answer to that one, I would be collecting a nobel prize rather than posting on this BBS.
I suppose if I was pressed for an answer it would be for other countries to provide educational establishments for Palestinians and Israelis, outside of Israel to study alongside one another, but those establishments would have to be outside of Israel and with other nationalities.
I think pretty soon they would stop demonising each other, make friends and maybe even intermarry and have kids. Get to the last one and I think the problem is cracked. Who is a half jew half arab going to hate?
Religious difference is a tough one to get past, but I find that when you put teens together and their hormones are raging (first love and all that sort of thing), it's about the biggest force you can bring to bear against any other form of brainwashing.
Ravs
Interesting idea. Feeds upon the youth rebelling against tradition in a way, which usually just needs a gentle nudge to get it going. Something like that just might work, provided nobody blew up the school.
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ravs... share? interesting concept but... socialism never works. Now, the jews combined forces and created something. they are still working on it and helping their own.. they have their hands full with that..
It would seem to me that if anyone were to "share" it would be the rich arab states. The palestinians are more thier "people" than anyones. The arabs are the ones most concerned. Why don't they "share"? If they spent half the money they spend on war and training terrorists the palestinians would have a jewish level of income and education.
lazs
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Lasz...if two kids are in the playground and one decides to share his lunch with another one, does that make the kid who is sharing his lunch a socialist? Is the concept of kindness a purely socialist construct in your mind?
Interesting point about the other Arab states pitching in, but I think the help should come from the Israelis because they are 'sharing' the same land as the Palestinians. If your 'enemy' helps you, it makes it increasingly difficult to call him your enemy. Ultimately, these people are going to have to learn how to live together if they are to collectively survive in some sort of normal existence.
As for the Arabs of other countries, their singular lack of concrete help to the Palestinians speaks volumes about how much they really care about their plight.
Ravs.
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Originally posted by Staga
It's amazing what decades of propaganda can do to people's minds.
[/b]
Yeah, it is. Look at yourself for example, claiming that 99.9% of the palestinians "are just ordinary people who are trying to keep their childrens in safe and get some food for them" when opinion polls shows that 68% of them supports the suicide bombings.
You want to paint up these people as some poor victims just trying to get on with their lives while the evil Israelis opress them every day. You dont have a ****ing clue.
btw who has tried to justify killing innocent civilians?
A large majority of the palestinians.
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ravs... now you are talking about something different. charity, socialism and aide are, or can be completely different things.
I think that the fact that the arabs aren't helping proves that the palestinians are just an excuse.
lazs
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I was talking about sharing the means of giving people a chance of having the basic necessities in life which provide happiness.
Those things are shelter, energy, education, a decent health service and so on.
Ravs
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Originally posted by Pongo
Eagler
so you now see the US and Isreal as one entity?
You gota just accept it boy. Bad things happen when you oppress people. Its not that supprising.
YEa but good things happen when you oppress bad people! and further more, Pongo Moore someday we will have freed the Iraqs and will have our troops home and things will be swell, but you will still be from Canada :D ;)
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Originally posted by VOR
Ravs, this is all very interesting, but I'm more interested in how you think the problem can be fixed. Personally, I don't think it can.
I have a solution but it's controversial and posting it would certainly get me banned. :D
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I'm sure you do, Storch. I'm sure you do. :D
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Originally posted by ravells
I was talking about sharing the means of giving people a chance of having the basic necessities in life which provide happiness.
Those things are shelter, energy, education, a decent health service and so on.
Ravs
I hope you mean giving the people the chance to earn their shelter, energy, et. al.
Maslow's hierarchy of needs says that the basic necessities will get you the physiological and safety needs, but the the next three levels, love, esteem and self-actualization are created when one has self worth, and that starts with earning your way through life, not having things given to you.
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Yes, I did, Holden.
Ravs.
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well... no one is against opportunity I suppose but...
how exactly would one "share" with the mad bombers and the 64% of the population tht believe they are on the right trac?
lazs
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I'm curious about this 64% number. Where did it come from? How can the accuracy be verified? Also, does it mean 64% would wear a bomb, or maybe just help strap one to someone else, or maybe buy the duct tape, or maybe applaud, or what? I'd like info on this if u guys have it.
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(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/258_1084547160_potowar.jpg)
(With thanks to Grunz).
Ravs