Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sixpence on June 03, 2004, 10:26:37 PM
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They should make them pay every cent it costs to rescue their stupid Azzes. Can't believe we send people to risk their lives saving some dumbarse who decides to climb up 11k for no reason other than to be stupid.
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Yeah we had a kid die up here last weekend. Went for a hike in lite jacket above treeline and was subjected to a fast moving arctic-like cold front and didn't make it through the night. Sad, especially since the weather guessers had been predicting the front for a week.
Some folks just find it unbelievable and outside their experience that the weather can change so fast.
h
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One Auburn Fighter fighter, climbing hobbist..(His wife and 2 kids live 6 miles from us) dies on Mt. Rainier today. My wife had the displeasure of working the ER when they brought them into Harbor view today.
:(
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040604/ap_on_re_us/rainier_rescue_4
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Whats just as stupid is these utter idiots who insist on building their houses along the Missisipi River (or any other river for that matter)then get upset when they get flooded out which seems to happen damn near every other year.
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lol wow, climbing isnt stupid at all, its something you do (well if you have common smarts) knowing is very dangerous, and a potential life ender. Its very exciting so many things change so fast up there.
And the rescure people are getting paid to go up there that is their job, its what they want to do to help people and thank god for them as they save many lives every year.
Sometimes you just have bad luck, sometimes its inexpierenced climbers thinkin they know it all and are invincible.
I climb alot during the summer and take precautions to hopfully ensure stuff like this doesnt happen, sometimes theres just nothin you can do.
But saying climbing is stupid etc, is like saying playing FootBall is stupid because you can get hurt doing it. Accidents happen.
Anyways as a last note, if your wondering why anyone in the world would climb a mountain. Personally for me, its the excitment, knowing im doing something that is potentially dangerous, adrenaline you might say, its knowing i workd and climbed that whole long way to get to the very top, up there youll see some of the most beautiful views youve ever seen(glacier lakes etc), gives you a real good feeling inside, and well its exercise, takes your mind off things, its just fun!
May the unfourtunate climber R.I.P and the family get through these rough times.
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My son and daughter and their spouses are high toppers and have climbed to the highest point in roughly 45 states.
On the hard ones out west they have hired experienced guides and attended classes to insure they make the climb as safely as they can.
They have seen the beauty of 90% of the U.S. met it's citizens and have enjoyed the sight seeing along the way.
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Alpinism is a great sport. And in fact - amateur alpinism isn't more dangerous then crossing a street in a big city. With some training and common sence it's pretty safe.
In Soviet times the group that was lost, or had an accident, had to pay 600 rubles per hour of helicopter flight if nessesary. Average salary in USSR was around 200 rubles that time.
I had one of my former group leaders disqualified for a year because he didn't send a telegram to a control-and-rescue service from a village his group passed on their route. They were there on Sunday, the post office and telegraph was closed, so he just gave a first local guy he saw a 3-ruble bill and a sheet of paper with a text and adress. I think the guy was happy to drink to the health of hikers from Moscow ;)
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Agreed with 6pants. People should be required to have rescue insurance or be liable for any debt/loss of life that results from their adveture.
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Next we'll have folks on this board telling us how stupid surfers are because lifeguards have to drag them in when they get attacked by sharks or get bounced off the bottom of the ocean. :rolleyes:
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wait till the democrats decide it isn't good for you...
It should be banned... I mean... "if it will save just one life...."
lazs
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You wanna do it fine, but hire your own rescue crew, why should tax dollars and resources be used to to rescue people who decide to play chicken with nature? To quote lazs, "why should I be extorted?"
Oh yeah, compare it other sports, like dodging sharks in a shark tank. Or living with bears.
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believe me.. I have no problem with not sending rescuers or charging for rescue from say.... insurance...
What I have a problem with is outlawing risky behavior. That is the democrat way... "it is for your own good". mentality.
I bet people would volunteer to rescue. climbers could be required to have insurance if they wished to be rescued.
I have tripple A for if I blow up a hot rod on your roads for example.
lazs
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You have the right to climb if you want to do so. But if you are injured or stranded on a rugged mountainside then some other mother's child must risk life and limb trying to rescue you. I don't care if it IS their job, no one should have to place their own life in danger to rescue thrill seekers.
Having to pay part of the costs of rescue might curb some of the riskier behavior that some engage in.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Agreed with 6pants. People should be required to have rescue insurance or be liable for any debt/loss of life that results from their adveture.
Next time they'll fine me for not buying insurance if I want to go to the forest 50km from Moscow to pick mushrooms. That's the way it will be here in Russia in 2008. :mad:
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Most places are starting to charge fees for rescues. I climbed Pike's Peak yesterday (14110 feet) and when we got to the top it was about 20. When he left, the wind was humping and I say the wind chill was well below freezing. But, no one was cold, because we had the proper gear... except the stupid tourists in shorts freezing after driving to the top on the backside road. Anyways, I have no problem paying for a rescue that my stupidity causes, but I to say I do not have the right to climb is soooo democratic its disgusting... I will climb, be prepared, and have a good time. You start telling me I can't, be prepared for the resulting revolution you liberal bastages. ;)
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Originally posted by Shuckins
You have the right to climb if you want to do so. But if you are injured or stranded on a rugged mountainside then some other mother's child must risk life and limb trying to rescue you. I don't care if it IS their job, no one should have to place their own life in danger to rescue thrill seekers.
Having to pay part of the costs of rescue might curb some of the riskier behavior that some engage in.
You should have the right to climb if you have nessesary training.
That's the way it was here in Soviet times:
First stage was education/training in "Alpinist camp". People were trained, made several trips with instructors and got the "basic training" alpinist degree.
Then they had to qualify for their desired routes. For example: you couldn't participate in third category route if you don't have second category already. To lead the group on third category route you had to participate in fourth category and have a leadership experience in second category twice. This psrticipation/leadership expired after a few years, so - if you didn't go to the mountains for 3 years you lose your qualification.
But there always were some idiots that went to the mountains without basic training, with laundry ropes and so on...
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Originally posted by Sixpence
You wanna do it fine, but hire your own rescue crew, why should tax dollars and resources be used to to rescue people who decide to play chicken with nature? To quote lazs, "why should I be extorted?"
I'm sure the families that throng to the beach to swim will be more than happy to pay for their own rescue services. Oh wait. They already do. Its called paying taxes. If anything, more people should climb mountains since they're already paying for their rescue.
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Originally posted by gofaster
I'm sure the families that throng to the beach to swim will be more than happy to pay for their own rescue services. Oh wait. They already do. Its called paying taxes. If anything, more people should climb mountains since they're already paying for their rescue.
Oh, yeah, compare it to swimming, that's good. You should compare it to where it says "no swimming, dangerous riptides", and they should be charged too.
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I think we should outlaw computer useage!!! Too many folks sitting getting fat, eating jelly donuts, carpal tunnel syndrome, migranes, chipped nails, bad backs, poor circulation, high blood pressure from the constant coffee intake.....
Yeah...lets put that in the category of "risk taking"....I mean lets call a spade a spade now.....It is vastly more risky health wise using the computer!:rolleyes:
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1999/08/27/48hours/main53458.shtml
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Originally posted by Sixpence
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1999/08/27/48hours/main53458.shtml
The location is secret because what Hartfield is doing is usually illegal. His sport is called "BASE jumping," taking a dive off of anything high with just a parachute.
(BASE is an acronym for building, antennae, span, earth, and stands for the fixed-objects from which BASE jumps start from, according to the Skydive! Web archive.)
There's a reason why its illegal.
Now about swimming, can anybody find any figures that compares deaths by mountain climbing to deaths by drowning at a public beach, river, and/or lake?
I would wager more people die by drowning than by mountain climbing.
Maybe you'd like to see national park services taken off the tax rolls and turned into private parks with admission charges?
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lmao Sixpence, so your saying the taxes we pay, arent as good as your taxes or something? Everyone else pays taxes if anything we're "contributing" as much as you are to rescure teams.
Btw how many people do you see needing to be rescued off mountains each year, compared to people killed in other sports?
I agree with early posts, with alittle training, climbing is very safe.
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Require rescue insurance for everything.Climbers.swimmers,divers. hunters, fisherman and whatever other recreation people do to enjoy themselves.
We need that money to take of illegal aliens and welfare drones.
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Our S&R here is all volunteer w/ the exception of the initial purchase of gear which was a grant. We are in National Forest, not National Park. Big difference. They get billed (a bunch) if air support is used, but nothing more.
I have no problem w/ alpinists. They generally have a grip on the dangers they face and the gear with which to face them.
I have a problem w/ folks underestimating the hazard of the situations they get into and being ill-prepared when things go to hell and scream for help expecting immediate extraction.
h
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I was a helicopter crewchief in an Army medevac unit at Ft Lewis WA in the 90s and had the displeasure of having to rescue quite a few folks off of Mt Ranier. Half those idiots had no business playing Joe Mountainclimber. Nothing like spending thousands of dollars and risking lives to rescue someone due to stupidity. There ought to be some type of certification process or something to limit it.
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try to think of it this way...every cent you spend to rescue a climber is a cent not spent on listening to lobbie groups...
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Mt. McKinley requires the purchase of an insurance policy to cover any rescue operations. They started this some 10 years ago IIRC.
I remember, when I was a child, the rescues on Half Dome. You could hear the crys for help from miles away in the valley in the '50's and '60's, too much noise for that now.
I think there should be some sort of stupidity law where obvious acts of stupidity are seperated from true accidents and fees charged accordingly.
I met Vern Tejas during the Valdez spill. He had climbed McKenley some 22 times, 5 times solo, at the time. He had to get pluked off the mountian once when a short fall broke a few ribs. Charging him for his rescue would have beed kind of redundant since he's often a part of the rescue team for the mountian.
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I will agree that people should have to take a mandatory course for some of the harder climbs and be issued a certafication card or something, but for the majority of mountain climbs they are faily easy.