Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Midnight on June 04, 2004, 10:37:55 AM
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I really like the concept of loosing control of the aircraft when blacking out, however I think a slight modification should be added.
In the case of LOC (Loss Of Consciousness) due to pilot wound, could we get a gradual control loss instead of instant?
I had pilot wounded last night and was heading in for a landing. I had my P-51D all trimmed out for level flight and was on a nice gentle glide-slope to the runway. Just when I decided to make a slight nose down correction my pilot decides to go into blackout (shaking head and tunnel vision started). I tried to make an adjustment to bring the nose level again, but had zero response. Of course I woke up 5 seconds later, but it was too late to do anything but crash.
In a situation like that, I would think a pilot would have better awareness of his physical condition and would be able to sense when he might blackout. So, what I'm asking for to simulate this is a gradual control loss instead of instant, so a pliot can adjust to it to try and have the plane in corrected flight before total LOC.
Perhaps something as simple as a stick box (similar to what you see when you calibrate the joystick) to show how much your stick is moving realative to the input you are trying to give it.
When you are fully consciousness, moving your joystick 100% makes the cross-hair in the stickbox move 100%, then, as you begin to black out, the cross-hair movement becomes less for the same movement of the joystick. Then you would know you are getting weaker and could compenstate.
I think the same type of thing could be used to simulate pilot fatigue. The more you pulled high G turns, the less response you would get on the stick-box, simulating tired arms, etc. This of course would go back to normal so long as the pilot is given a chance to rest a moment.
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Don't you have that period where you're kind of nodding off before you lose control?
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There was only one time that I came very near to passing out and I remember first, sweating profusly, next I experienced a gradual loss of hearing, and finally the vision started to go very much like we see ... it closed from the outside in. I fought it and never did go to full unconsiousness.
I don't think that HT could model the sweat factor, but if sounds were to be gradually reduced first, then that could be a sign of an on coming blackout. I would also imagine that while unconcious, you don't hear anything so while completely unconsious, all sounds might be turned off ?
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Originally posted by Pyro
Don't you have that period where you're kind of nodding off before you lose control?
Pyro,
No, as soon as the pilot's head started to shake and tunnel vision started, there was no control available. I could not pull up or make any other control inputs to the elevator or alieron. (I didn't try rudder or throttle)
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Same here. I tried to flip on autopilot as soon as the tunnel vision started, but it didn't take.
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yep, the moment the darkness begins to creep in all control is lost.
Didn't even reach complete blackout before I augered.
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It would be perfect if we had 1 second at the onset of a blackout left to put the nose of the plane over the horizon. Even better, disable autopilot shortly before the blackout begins to prevent people from hitting auto-level immediately.
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Originally posted by Midnight
Pyro,
No, as soon as the pilot's head started to shake and tunnel vision started, there was no control available. I could not pull up or make any other control inputs to the elevator or alieron. (I didn't try rudder or throttle)
I had exactly the same experience. Tunnel vision started, I tried to pull up and got no response at all.
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Don't think that 5 confirmations are enough, let me make the 6th :D
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I think even in AHI Pilot wounds are WAY overmodeled.
After all while some wounds might be enough from pain alone to disorient the pilots attention Not all wounds were enough to make a pilot totally black out.
I am in favor of a more gradual thing unless the pilot is severly wounded.
Maybe start by making the views blurry and/or control sluggish.
this might be enough to simulate the distraction due to pain or..say a wounded arm,leg or whatever.
there are plenty of stories of pilors flying for miles and landing their crates safely And while difficult they didint always black out
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Originally posted by SlapShot
if sounds were to be gradually reduced first, then that could be a sign of an on coming blackout. I would also imagine that while unconcious, you don't hear anything so while completely unconsious, all sounds might be turned off ?
Excellent! ;)
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I dont have any problems with the control or blackout...
I enter the tunnel vision fine...only after 3 seconds of blackout (TOTAL) do I lose control and remain blacked out.
Regards,
:)
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You're damned close but still missing the point of this thread, methinks, gutt. They're talking about pilot wound unconsciousness threshold and how it relates to stick input ... not GLOC threshold and how it relates to stick input.
GLOC will happen 3 or so seconds into the blackout and you have stick control up to that point, yes. Loss of stick control with a pilot wound happens the moment the tunnel begins.
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Think about it guys.
Being wounded enough to faint, means either that you've lost enormous amounts of blood, or the pain is too intense to stay awake(though it's more likely the former, as losing consciousness due to pain is abrupt, traumatic and much more serious).
Either way, it is clear that you are basically in no condition to fly a plane. What would the real pilots have done?
They'd bail out.
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Leave it as it is. Nothing's wrong with it.
A better request to be have different levels of wounds by placing a hit part inside the pilot 3D model. Maybe about 2 different types of wounds.
* A wound that hits the arms or legs would be considered "non lethal", and would cause a control deficiency - such as, loss of aileron/elevator effectiveness at mid-high speeds.
* A wound that strikes the torso would be considered "lethal", and it would cause both loss of control effectivenss and pilot fainting - which, means it's time to bail if you don't want to risk a death.
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Kweassa, let me describe my first encounter with the new loss of control- feature.
I was flying a D-9, dogfighting a F6F when a pony bounced me.
I had seen him earlier and made an evasive maneuver as best as my E state allowed, receiving only a couple of pings. I heard the "something's broken" sound but since my plane handling didn't change i wrote it off as "just minor damage". Since I was engaged in a dogfight I was too busy checking the damage list and continued to go after the Hellcat. I was in a turn with the nose below the horizon when I started to black out. I tried to put the nose up immediately but had no control anymore.
There was no blood on the canopy or any other warning for me.
Imho, we need a little mulligan at the beginning of a blackout before loss of control or a pilot wound needs to get a stronger feedback than damaged plane parts.
I believe in RL a pilot would be able to tell very quickly if he has a major wound and in the situation above my two opponets would have witnessed a dogfighting 190 turning into a Run-90 ;) as soon as the pony had scored hits.
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A new sound(s) for pilot wounds. Heh.
Ugh!
Ergh!
Owch!
Dammit!
@#$%!
*cough* *spit*
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
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Arlo I think your on to something here.:)
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Thanks Arlo! I was hoping there wasnt a problem with the new blackout stuff....I went and tested last night and it worked fine....
Thank God!
Appreciate you clearing it up for me...been pretty beat lately:)
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Well, the fact is that if the aircraft is trimmed for level flight, it should remain that way when the pilot nods off. However, if it is not so trimmed you can expect it do whatever it IS trimmed to do.
My regards,
Widewing
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Mofified for next patch.
HiTech
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Thanks Hitech!!!!!
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Think about it guys.
Being wounded enough to faint, means either that you've lost enormous amounts of blood, or the pain is too intense to stay awake(though it's more likely the former, as losing consciousness due to pain is abrupt, traumatic and much more serious).
Either way, it is clear that you are basically in no condition to fly a plane. What would the real pilots have done?
They'd bail out.
....
Leave it as it is. Nothing's wrong with it.
A better request to be have different levels of wounds by placing a hit part inside the pilot 3D model. Maybe about 2 different types of wounds.
* A wound that hits the arms or legs would be considered "non lethal", and would cause a control deficiency - such as, loss of aileron/elevator effectiveness at mid-high speeds.
* A wound that strikes the torso would be considered "lethal", and it would cause both loss of control effectivenss and pilot fainting - which, means it's time to bail if you don't want to risk a death.
Its doubtfull that one could slide back the Canopy stand on the seat and jump out of a plane, if one couldnt even apply pressure to the Stik "Think about it guys" I did