Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Sorrow[S=A] on January 05, 2000, 01:27:00 AM
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Well here are some initial stats for non US planes in .44, I haven't done Nik2 yet if someone wants to add it go ahead.
Notes:
Climb tests were done by descending to 100 ft abv sealevel and auto at the speed autospeed was set at.
No ordinance was used on planes for any tests.
No WEP was used.
Spitfire had 4x302 2x20mm
G10 had 30mm
.205 had 2x20mm 2x12mm
Full fuel was used on all planes
1 pass was done on each 10 mph speed 130 to 180 to determine best climb speed 3 passes were done at that speed to verify times.
I am just the messenger...
La-5
5k 1:16
10k 2:44 5-10 1:28
15k 4:19 10-15 1:35
20k 6:10 15-20 1:41
25k 8:39 20-25 2:39
Overstress starts 500 IAS 625 1st damage
650 wings lost
.205**
5k 1:21
10k 2:55 5-10 1:34
15k 4:33 10-15 1:38
20k 6:15 15-20 1:42
25k 8:07 20-25 1:52
650 IAS minor damage 695 Wings removed
Spitfire
5k 1:15
10k 2:36 5-10 1:11
15k 3:57 10-15 1:21
20k 5:32 15-20 1:35
25k 7:18 20-25 1:46
Me 109G10**
5k 1:17
10k 2:47 5-10 1:30
15k 4:26 10-15 1:39
20k 6:14 1:48
25k 8:35*** 2:21
** Both these planes refused to accept a .speed below 150, I think this punished their results. They also both displayed a "swaying" motion where they would pitch up and down gently going from 4k fpm to as low as 2900 at low altitudes. as climb speed increased oscillation decreased.
*** Me109 displayed a very violent leftward roll after 20k under full military power. this delayed the climb as the plane was moving upwards at an angle.
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If your in range, so is the enemy.
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Sorrow,
at what alt did you make your stress tests? You know theres a huge difference in dives from 30K to 20K or from 15K to 5K. At medium low alts, max allowed speed is highly reduced due to air density.
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for all the planes to get to 600 + IAS took a dive almost vertical from 25k. For the La-5 I had to go to 30k before I could get the wings to unglue. None of the stress tests were from G force merely windspeed. Spitfire was unmeasurable as it's airspeed indicator does not go high enough to measure where damage occurs.
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If your in range, so is the enemy.
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You know, there really is no way to get concrete data on overspeed limits for these planes, since any pilot who exceeded them was obviously killed. Dead men tell no tales...
Realistically, the prop should fry itself before the wings rip off in some of these planes - after all that's what happened to Martindale when he dived to Mach 0.9 in a Spitfire, twice I think.
Testing G-limits should be much more checkable I imagine - except for them 5 G blackouts...
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What a mess. Spit outclimbs all those planes by far. And yet, those numbers seem right for it, only G-10 is a slow climber in 0.44. Is La slow climber too in this version, or was it so historically ? If Macchi performs as it should, does it benefit unfair advantage in this version, since other planes lost their climb ?
OK, who can offer explanations plane by plane ?
What a mess... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I believe the La-5 should climb just slightly less than the G10 up to 15k where the G10 would quickly outpace it. And I agree, what a mess.
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If your in range, so is the enemy.
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Hristo,
from what I understand FM's will be modified again and again. I do not expect that C.205 climb performance, despite correct, will remain the same all the time. I saw 109G climb rate ranging form 2,900 to 4,000ft/min from 0.40 to 0.44.
We will see a lot of changes in the next weeks. I'm sure. The G10 cant fight this way.
The Macchi is a 1943 fighters, a low performer compared to other AH kites, but still should be a very good climber, better than the Pony, the Fw190A8, the Hog and the N1K2. After 1943 speed, range and firepower were the critical factors in fighters performance, tho.
A 109F4 can easily outclimb and out turn a Pony but if the Pony pilot has good SA, the 109 pilot is a dead man.
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Joy... Bf109G10 still climbs slower than uber UFO spitfrie from brand W
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Tnx for reply, Gatt. I am glad to see Macchi got more competitive. In fact, I witnessed it in the arena. No more mistakes against Macchi (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Also, new thing in arena are extremly high Spits. About 80% of Spits I encountered were higher or much higher than me. Now I imagine flying 109G-10 as a weight training. Once the weights are removed...well, we will see !
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Uhmmm,
I dont love Spitfire, better I hate them, but WarBirds Spitfire IXe takes about 6 minutes to get to 20K, 100% fuel, 160Mph IAS.
She has the right performance of a 1942, early '43 Merlin61 kite (despite her late war armament). But I may be wrong, I'm not a Spit buff ... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Anyway, IMHO, I think that the 0.441 AH Spit has the right performance (for Merlin66 kite). It is the G-10 that must be tuned again ... please more horsepower ... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
(http://web.tiscalinet.it/gatt/205-109.jpg)
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 01-05-2000).]
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All those figures are better than I can attain with 0.44 Patch 1. My Spit 9 is on the money for a F.IX, 6 minutes to 20k... uhhh, above that the numbers don't match any more, the AH Spitfire becomes quicker than it "should" be.
The G-10 still sucks (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
And I wish they would fix the phoney aileron trim problems... the Spitfire and Bf109 didn't even have adjustable aileron trim!
[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 01-05-2000).]
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Agreed, the problem is in G-10 and other underperformers, not the Spit.
Late war G-10 was a trade off, more weight for more power. It got weight, but was cheated in the power department in AH (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
But what about WEP performances ? Are they correct as well ? G-10 has so much torque when in WEP, it is scary. Can't do a simple Immelmann without 2000 invisible hp kicking me out of it. In short, weight and torque are with us, the performance lacks.
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Thanks, squaddie (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
It looks like Pyro is slowly tweaking the FM, seeing what does what. Little 'bumps' are still popping up, but now, instead of one plane being at performance (Spit in 0.43), there are at least three that can be seen here: La5, C.205 and Spit F.IX. So, the work continues ...
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leonid, aka grisha
129 IAP VVS RKKA
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As far as I can tell, WEP produces the same performance it always has for the G-10. Except that you can't fly level with it on most of the time. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Juzz I double checked, my stats on the spit are correct, 5'32 to 20k +/- .5 seconds.
If you can't get it there that fast i am not going to blab here how, maybe others can't either (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(The trick is to be .speed 130 for the whole climb, spit does no leave 4k sustained until into 17k range)
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If your in range, so is the enemy.
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Quote Pyro
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The AH Spit is a F.IX with a Merlin 61
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I don't believe the F ever had a merlin 66 (i could be wrong)
Does this make the climb too good for our current spit?
Incedently does anyone know how the LF and HF compared to the F in performance (climb,speed etc?)
[This message has been edited by jmccaul (edited 01-05-2000).]
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F.IX = Merlin 61
LF.IX = Merlin 66
HF.IX = Merlin 70
F.IX time to 28k/32k = 10'20"/13'15" (AH Spit to 32k in 10'30")
LF.IX time to 30k = 8.4 min.
HF.IX time to 30k = 8.05 min.
F.IX top speed = 409mph(28000ft) (AH Spit = 425mph at 28k)
LF.IX top speed = 407mph(22000ft)
HF.IX top speed = 415mph(28000ft)
according to: http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spittest.html (http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spittest.html)
Soooo, the current AH Spitfire is too good for a F, or not good enough for a LF/HF. But it's faster than a Mk XI(unarmed photorecon Spitfire).
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Juzz wasn't there also a Spit IX that had the Merlin 60 ?
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Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), **MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires ;) "
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I did a little climing test WITH War Emergency Power for the Spit and 109.
Climbing speed was set to 130 for both and they used it.
Climb was set on the moment speed reached 130.
For the 109 trim didn't suffice above 12K and I climbed the rest of the way by hand. Speed climbed to about 150 in this period. Both may have hurt the climb a bit as it is hard to keep a perfectly gentle climb. WEP lasted for the duration of the test and in total of 10:08.
Spitfire's WEP ended after 5:03 and rest of the climb was done at military power.
SPITFIRE IX
5K 1:16
10K 2:33 5-10 1:16
15K 3:52 10-15 1:29
20K 5:27 15-20 1:35
25K 7:26 20-25 1:59
WEP: 5 min
109G-10
5K 1:05
10K 2:16 5-10 1:11
15K 3:32 10-15 1:16
20K 4:55 15-20 1:23
25K 6:49 20-25 1:54
WEP: 10 min
Seems the spits WEP doesn't help much, as the results is hardly better than Sorrow's.
The 109's have more kick though and last longer too, but with a terrible torque.
It takes about 10 mins at gentle throttle to cool down to normal temperature again.
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LLv34 Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
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Lets just pretend that we're all just pilots and Pyro is the field engineer. He makes the tweaks and we fly what he does for our planes. I mean as long as it resembles some characteristics of the actual planes performance of course.
As for the guys that do the stats from version to version, they're just the intelligence department. We use their data to combat enemy planes.
Wouldn't it be great?...we wouldn't have these discussions over and over (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)...
But then again, what would we have to talk about!? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Ex.
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I totaly agree with Extreme on this..
HT is doing the FM by real data. Starting with a general FM across the board for all planes then working on individual FMs as AH progresses.This also allows them to work on other aspects of AH,instead of only working on one aspect..
Ive not whined or squeaked about anything in AH at this point.As they have the Data for each plane i dont need to tell them that the FM may not be correct,they allready know.
We are here at this point in time to find bugs in the program.Not point out FM problems.
Ill give AH at least one year before i start picking plane FMs apart.And that year starts after we go PAY (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
In the mean time,lets work on finding any remaining bugs (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Wardog (edited 01-06-2000).]
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Exactly, I have done these tests every revision to find out what i am fighting against. I posted them merely as statistical information to allow people to understand how the planes acted this version. I think people that posted here understand that clearly, note how the LW division pointed out the spit was accurate and the 109 merely was not yet.
I was holding off before posting the American iron and B&Z planes stats but may post them tonight.
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If your in range, so is the enemy.