Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: ero on June 05, 2004, 01:48:30 AM

Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: ero on June 05, 2004, 01:48:30 AM
Iraqis the Only Ones Getting Cheap Gas

38 minutes ago
   

By JIM KRANE, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - One of the prewar forecasts was that by invading Iraq (news - web sites), the world would profit from stable exports of Iraq's oil. And that would translate into cheap gas for American drivers. Now, with U.S. gasoline averaging $2.05 per gallon — about 50 cents more than the pre-invasion price — that logic has been flipped on its head.


AP Photo

   

Instead, Iraqis seem to be the only people getting cheap gas as a result of the invasion. They pay just five cents for a gallon — thanks to hundreds of millions of dollars in U.S. taxpayer subsidies.

Since Iraq has little capacity to refine its own gasoline, the U.S. government pays about $1.50 a gallon to purchase fuel in neighboring countries and deliver it to Iraqi filling stations. A three-month supply costs American taxpayers more than $500 million, not including the cost of military escorts.

The arrangement keeps a fleet of 4,200 tank trucks constantly on the move, ferrying fuel to Iraq.

Baghdad taxi driver Osama Hashim says he owes his livelihood to the U.S. taxpayer.

"We thank the Americans. They risked their lives to liberate us and now they are improving our lives," said Hashim, 26, topping up the tank on his beat-up 1983 Volkswagen.

Filling a 22-gallon tank in Baghdad with low-grade fuel costs just $1.10, plus a 50-cent tip for the attendant. A tankful of high-test costs $2.75.

In Britain, by contrast, gasoline prices hit $5.79 per gallon last week — $127 for a tankful.

Iraq's fuel subsidies, which are intended to mollify drivers used to low-priced fuel under Saddam Hussein (news - web sites), have coupled with the opening of the borders to create an anarchic car culture in Baghdad.

Cheap used cars shipped from Europe and Asia are flooding into Iraq. A 10-year-old BMW in good condition costs just $5,000. Since gas is so cheap, anyone with a car can become a taxi driver. Drivers jam the streets, offering rides for as little as 250 dinars — about 17 cents.

Iraq has no sales tax, no registration, no license plates and no auto insurance. Some would argue there are no rules of the road. Cars barrel the wrong way on the highway. They swoop into surprise U-turns. They ignore traffic signals.

Analysts say the U.S. gas subsidies can't last forever.

"The U.S. taxpayer has a right to be indignant, and Iraqis have to be warned about the long-run damages of this," said Anthony Cordesman, an Iraq analyst with the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies. "The minute the aid goes out, the party is over. And there's going to be a hell of a hangover."

The U.S. government paid even more last year for Iraqis' gasoline — between $1.59 and $1.70 per gallon — when the imports were contracted to Halliburton, the Texas oil services giant formerly headed by Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites).

The cheap fuel is spurring unsustainable demand, promoting wasteful use of energy and transportation, and squandering Iraq's oil output that might otherwise be exported, Cordesman said.

"You're leading people to buy cars that aren't affordable at normal costs," he said. "You need to move toward real market prices as quickly as you can without causing instability."

Iraqi drivers protest that the price difference between a gallon of gas in the United States and Iraq is fair, because the average Iraqi earns around $1,000 per year, a thirtieth of the average U.S. wage.

   

"If the price of gas goes up, we'll see lots of anger in the street," said cab driver Hashim, at a grimy filling station on Saadoun Street in central Baghdad.

Cheap gasoline is also needed to fuel the ubiquitous portable electric generators in Iraq, which power air conditioners during long daily blackouts.

Hashim and another driver, convinced, like many Iraqis, that the United States reaps huge amounts of cheap Iraqi oil, said subsidized gasoline was the least Americans could provide in return.

"The United States controls all Iraqi resources now," said Jenan Jabro, 50, tanking up his black Opel. "So what if they have to pay a little bit for gasoline? That's nothing compared to what they get in return."

Analysts say there never was a good case — either before the war or afterward — that a U.S. invasion would pay dividends in cheap oil.

"Some of the neo-conservatives might've been saying that, but no energy analysts were walking around saying that," Cordesman said.

Iraq's current exports of just under 2 million barrels of oil a day aren't enough to dent the world market price. It will take up to three years to bring Iraq back just to 1991 export levels, said Rachel Bronson of the Council on Foreign Relations. The country is still too unstable for most oil companies to invest in, she said.
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: NUKE on June 05, 2004, 01:50:05 AM
I say good for Iraqis. God bless them, it's their oil.
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: NUKE on June 05, 2004, 01:52:28 AM
By the way ero, what previously banned person are you?
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: ero on June 05, 2004, 01:52:52 AM
Yeah but we are buying it for them at $1.50 a gallon and selling it to them for a nickle.
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: NUKE on June 05, 2004, 01:53:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ero
Yeah but we are buying it for them at $1.50 a gallon and selling it to them for a nickle.


It's their oil.
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: Nilsen on June 05, 2004, 01:54:07 AM
Oooo.... an new member. Hi "ero" and welcome :)
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: ero on June 05, 2004, 01:54:12 AM
Banned? I don't follow you sorry.
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: ero on June 05, 2004, 01:55:00 AM
Thank you Nilsen.
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: ero on June 05, 2004, 01:56:08 AM
Yes It's there oil but It's our tax dollars being wasted.
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: NUKE on June 05, 2004, 01:57:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ero
Banned? I don't follow you sorry.


so you stumbled in here and your first post is a political complaint in the O'Club . Yeah, you  a typical newbie......right.

What brought you here by the way? Interest in flight sims? LOL joker!
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: ero on June 05, 2004, 02:00:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
so you stumbled in here and your first post is a political complaint in the O'Club . Yeah, you  a typical newbie......right.

What brought you here by the way? Interest in flight sims? LOL joker!


Am I missing something here?
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: NUKE on June 05, 2004, 02:08:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ero
Am I missing something here?


Yes, you probably are.

Strange for a first post ever here to be a thread starter (cut and paste no less) and to be a political post, nothing to do with the game Aces High. I ask you, what brought you to this BB?
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: ero on June 05, 2004, 02:10:50 AM
Found this website from a guy yakin on text in IL2FB.
And from what I can tell in this room atleast the topic's have little or nothing to do with a flight sim.
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: rpm on June 05, 2004, 02:18:41 AM
Hi ero :aok

Don't worry, just a bit of "Mr.Black syndrome" that floats around here for new members. Been guilty of it myself.

As for your story, it's just typical of this current administration. I'm sure somehow, someway a chunk of that is going to Bush's buddies. You and I are just footing the bill.
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: NUKE on June 05, 2004, 02:19:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ero
Found this website from a guy yakin on text in IL2FB.
And from what I can tell in this room atleast the topic's have little or nothing to do with a flight sim.


fair enough, sorry for jumping you...we have had a few people that have been banned and keep coming back with different names.

and welcome. You should try AH online, get a free 2 week trial. It's the cat's arse!
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: Arlo on June 05, 2004, 02:32:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
It's their oil.


" ...the U.S. government pays about $1.50 a gallon to purchase fuel in neighboring countries and deliver it to Iraqi filling stations."

It is? :D
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: ero on June 05, 2004, 02:34:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
fair enough, sorry for jumping you...we have had a few people that have been banned and keep coming back with different names.

and welcome. You should try AH online, get a free 2 week trial. It's the cat's arse!


I have noticed that there seems to be a new version coming out soon .
Gonna give it a go then.

And ya gotta fill me in on this MR. Who ever fellow sounds fun.
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: ero on June 05, 2004, 02:35:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
" ...the U.S. government pays about $1.50 a gallon to purchase fuel in neighboring countries and deliver it to Iraqi filling stations."

It is? :D


Yeah thats the part that did not sound right to me either.
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: Nilsen on June 05, 2004, 02:36:06 AM
heheheheheheheheheheheheheheh ehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe heheheheheheheheheheheheheheh ehehehehehehehehehehehehehe :lol
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: NUKE on June 05, 2004, 02:41:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe :lol


Put your best white sweater on and maybe I can agree with this :)
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: Nilsen on June 05, 2004, 02:44:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
Put your best white sweater on and maybe I can agree with this :)


Just having some fun.... I stumbled across this:

Quote
Originally posted by ero
If I sleep with your wife can we still be friends?

Now Is that a Quote or just a good way to get a black eye?


i see some capitol letters were they should not be. I find that funny for some odd reason :D

-edit- ...Here we have another gem.
Quote
Originally posted by ero
America = Harley Davidson and boobs.
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: Arlo on June 05, 2004, 02:46:29 AM
And the word "black." Hmmmmmmm.
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: Nilsen on June 05, 2004, 02:48:29 AM
Welcome back Mr Black. Were have you been all these days? Kinda missed you actually :)
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: strk on June 05, 2004, 07:54:15 AM
Anyone know what is happening with the oil from Iraqi wells?  Weve been there over a year and the rebuilding was supposed to be self - financed, yet we are paying billions to reconstruct Iraq and subsidizing their freaking gas?  WTF?
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: VOR on June 05, 2004, 11:35:20 AM
Strk and others,

This has been ongoing for well over a year. Convoy upon convoy of fuelers have been steadily pouring into Iraq from Turkey mostly.

The oil from the Iraqi wells by and large has yet to be harvested and refined due to damage to the oil infrastructure, and setbacks have been ongoing due to attacks.

Am I correct that this has come as a surprise to you?
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: strk on June 05, 2004, 12:05:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by VOR
Strk and others,

This has been ongoing for well over a year. Convoy upon convoy of fuelers have been steadily pouring into Iraq from Turkey mostly.

The oil from the Iraqi wells by and large has yet to be harvested and refined due to damage to the oil infrastructure, and setbacks have been ongoing due to attacks.

Am I correct that this has come as a surprise to you?


I heard of some problems with the oil infrastructure but not of any attacks, plus we have ahd over a year to fix it and secure it.   If Saddam could keep the oil flowing we surely can. I suspect that when it is all said and done someone has been pilfering the Iraqi oil.
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: VOR on June 05, 2004, 12:07:47 PM
Yep, I made it out with a barrel myself. Everyone did. :D

But seriously, folks....
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: VOR on June 05, 2004, 12:27:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Here's (http://www.markfiore.com/animation/quit.html) your cheap gas.


:rofl

GS, I knew you's show up sooner or later. Thanks for the link! Cracked me up!  (In a "man, that's kinda sick" kinda way) :D
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: Nilsen on June 06, 2004, 01:41:47 AM
(http://www.buckfush.com/images/bush_Louisiana_State.jpg)
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: NUKE on June 06, 2004, 01:46:16 AM
Bush has nothing to do with gas prices, which are lower in America than a lot of other places.

We Americans have a it good in IMHO.
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: Nilsen on June 06, 2004, 01:50:49 AM
dont ruin my fun Nuke :D

(http://www.buckfush.com/images/bush_Phone_Price_Oil.jpg)
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: NUKE on June 06, 2004, 01:52:45 AM
sorry Nilsen, carry on... lol
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: Nilsen on June 06, 2004, 01:58:43 AM
hehe thx. Ive decided to make sunday my political day, and skip it the rest of the week. I tried to quit a few weeks back, but that was worse than quitting the smokes. I have to do this gradualy. :p
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: Toad on June 06, 2004, 10:15:54 AM
Oil production barrels along to prewar levels (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/01/1078117363358.html?from=storyrhs&oneclick=true)

Quote
A month before the April 1 deadline set by Iraq and American officials for restoring the industry to prewar levels, the country is producing 2.3 million to 2.5 million barrels a day, compared with 2.8 million barrels a day before the war.



Must be truly sad news for those of you so desperately praying for failure.
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: rpm on June 06, 2004, 10:26:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
(http://www.buckfush.com/images/bush_Louisiana_State.jpg)
:aok
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: Nilsen on June 06, 2004, 10:32:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by rpm371
:aok


Carful with that finger rpm.....lazs is prolly on his way to break it.....he is foaming alot today  :D
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: Airhead on June 06, 2004, 12:27:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Oil production barrels along to prewar levels (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/01/1078117363358.html?from=storyrhs&oneclick=true)



Must be truly sad news for those of you so desperately praying for failure.



I pray for peace, not failure.
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: Airhead on June 06, 2004, 12:30:19 PM
BTW, why did that New User get banned?? All he did was talk about the price of gasoline-  It's not like he threatened to beat anybody up at the Con or anything.

Maybe cause he mentoned IL2 or whatever it is.
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: Nilsen on June 06, 2004, 01:51:43 PM
ero aka Mr Black?
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: lazs2 on June 06, 2004, 02:08:21 PM
I haven't broken anyones finger(s) in years.  Certainly no ones on the BB.

lazs
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: strk on June 06, 2004, 08:39:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Oil production barrels along to prewar levels (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/01/1078117363358.html?from=storyrhs&oneclick=true)



Must be truly sad news for those of you so desperately praying for failure.


could you post the article - requires registration.
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: Toad on June 06, 2004, 10:05:39 PM
Weird. I wasn't registered when I read it!

Let me check.
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: Mini D on June 07, 2004, 12:55:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by strk
could you post the article - requires registration.
No it doesn't.  Click on the "register later" link.  They're just saying soon they're going to require registration.

MiniD
Title: Hey! where is my cheap gas George?
Post by: Toad on June 07, 2004, 11:27:36 AM
Here's another one anyway, says about the same thing.


Oil production in Iraq nearly at pre-war level (http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/ntm41268.htm)

Quote
02-03-04 Iraq's oil industry has undergone a remarkable turnaround and is now producing and exporting almost as much crude oil as it did before the war, according to officials with the American-led occupation and the Iraqi Oil Ministry.

A month ahead of the April 1 deadline set by Iraq and American officials for restoring the industry to pre-war levels, the country is producing 2.3 mm to 2.5 mm bpd, compared with 2.8 mm bpd it pumped before the war.



You can be pessimistic at the continuing problems that get trumpeted in the media or you can be optimistic that things are turning for the better.

Their own government taking over, free elections coming, their only major industry making great strides to recovery, agreement to disband the militias...... I prefer to see the glass as half full.

And I'm just as eager for our guys to be out of there and home as anyone.