Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Steve on June 05, 2004, 02:42:38 AM
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I'm going to upgrade my vid card in the next few days and would like a bit of advice please.
My system: P4 1.8, 1.5 gigs of Ram on win XP Pro.
Thinking about upgrading to: ATI RADEON 9800 PRO 256MB AGP.
Any thoughts on this card? It goes for about $300.00. Other cards in this range better? With this new card should I expect to see dramatic improvement in fps? Mu current card doesn't load "far off" stuff right away in AHII.
My current card is a 64 meg Geforce 2 mx400.
TY for any suggestions/comments!
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No real need for 256MB's on a vid card..........not based on the 9800 anyway.
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Couple of thoughts.
Your CPU will not be able to exploit the performance available with the 9800Pro card (you can run up a 3Ghz CPU with that card before hitting anything close to to the performance wall). But if you are thinking down the road about a CPU/motherboard upgrade, then the card is a good investment.
The 256MB card is slower than the 128MB version. ATI and NVidia use cheaper/slower video ram chips to keep the cost under control for the 256MB versions.
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Also, isn't the 9800 a very power-hungry card? One of the few cards that require a direct hookup to the power supply? I've heard that you should be sure your power supply is at least 350W if you want to run this card.
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Oboe,
I have an ATI Radeon 9800xt .....it requires a direct hookup to the power supply.
Regards,
:)
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Originally posted by oboe
Also, isn't the 9800 a very power-hungry card? One of the few cards that require a direct hookup to the power supply? I've heard that you should be sure your power supply is at least 350W if you want to run this card.
The original 9700Pros needed that, once they got the die size down the 9600 pro 9800 pro no longer need to be hooked up to power supply
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Thanks for the feedback! Ok, I am considering this scenario w/ an eye on upgrading my CPU/motherboard in the next.... 2-4 months. With this in mind, faster 128 meg, or more but slower 256 meg?
Skuzzy, snapper, oboe, gutt, thanks again for your help.
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Originally posted by Steve
Thanks for the feedback! Ok, I am considering this scenario w/ an eye on upgrading my CPU/motherboard in the next.... 2-4 months. With this in mind, faster 128 meg, or more but slower 256 meg?
Skuzzy, snapper, oboe, gutt, thanks again for your help.
What game have you ever see use the full vid card memory, hell AH II uses what may 50MB out of the 128MB. Personally I would get less memory with a faster graphics core/memory. Also beware of the 9800 Pros that are 128Bit............It clocks at 325/580 instead of 380/680. It also only uses a 128 bit memory interface, instead of 256 bit, so it is MUCH slower, ie half the pipeline.
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Also beware of the 9800 Pros that are 128Bit....
How will I be able to tell this? Is it clearly labeled on the box?
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If you got the $$$$$$$$ to spend then you might as well get one with 256MB of memory
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Originally posted by Steve
How will I be able to tell this? Is it clearly labeled on the box?
Rule of thumb..............any 9800Pro under $200. Most websites will tell you, not sure if it is labeled that way on the box. For instance.............Newegg descriptions........
Sapphire Radeon 9800PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR 128bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP, Model 1024-1C47, OEM $172
POWERCOLOR ATI RADEON 9800PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV Out, 8X AGP, Model "XR98-C3" -BULK $206
From Atacom.com
RADEON 9800 PRO 128MB 128BIT AGP 8X W/TV-OUT/DVI - BULK POWER BY ATI VIDEO CARD $179.95
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OK, the two I was looking at on the ATI site were $249.00 and $299.00 respectively for the 128 and 256 meg cards. I will be heading to Fry's Electronics this afternoon and am hoping to be adequately educated in order to make the right choice.
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You will pay a good $40-50 for buying retail, order from newegg
ATI RADEON 9800PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -RETAIL $222 shipped free
ATI RADEON 9800 PRO Video Card, 256MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -RETAIL $269 shipped free
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Snapper,
The vid mem will depend on how you have the game set up.
At least the Ctrl I says so...
I run at 1600x1200 with ALL the eyecandy (AA, AF) set to maxes and my vid mem runs around 110-120 meg.
I am running an ATI 9800XT 256ram.
I just slapped an old Nvidia Geforce 2 MX 400 (64meg) in the Dell a few min ago.....moving the 9800xt to a custom system that is arriving within the hour.
Just my two cents...it all depends on how you have the puppy set up.
Regards,
:)
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The 9800Pro still requires a power plug from the power supply. It does require less power than the 9700Pro. The X800Pro requires its own power plug as well, but it uses less power than the 9800Pro.
The 128bit bus width 9800's are supposed to be labeled as 9800LE's. The Pro designation, according to ATI, signifies the 256bit wide bus for the 9800.
I would be leery of any company, in general, that was selling 128bit wide 9800's and labeling them with the 'Pro' designation.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
The 9800Pro still requires a power plug from the power supply. It does require less power than the 9700Pro. The X800Pro requires its own power plug as well, but it uses less power than the 9800Pro.
The 128bit bus width 9800's are supposed to be labeled as 9800LE's. The Pro designation, according to ATI, signifies the 256bit wide bus for the 9800.
I would be leery of any company, in general, that was selling 128bit wide 9800's and labeling them with the 'Pro' designation.
Yeah I was getting ahead of myself, it was the 9500pro's to 9600pro's that lost the pwer supply connection, I made a mistake saying the 9800pros lost it. Skuzzy, every computer vendor now sells the 128bit cards lableled as 9800Pro....newegg,mwave,zipzoomfly. I think it has something to do with an ATI directive as every OEM manufacturer produces a 128bit card labeled as a Pro.
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Well I missed the post about "if you have the money...."
Money wasn't a factor in this equation for me so perhaps I've erred.
I haven't opened the box yet.
Let me tell you what I've done.
I bought the ATI radeon 9800 pro w/ 128 megs of memory, 256 bit.
I also bought a P4 2.8 chip.
My existing motherboard is relatively new, it has 800 MHz FSB(can be overclocked to 1000) and dual channel DDR, SATA, etc.
since I missed this post: If you got the $$$$$$$$ to spend then you might as well get one with 256MB of memory
Are you recommending thatI return the 128 meg card and get the 256?
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If you dont care about the $50 difference why not, it isnt gonna hurt. But from everything I have read, there is no real benefit. You might gain 1FPS in a game, as of now there is no game that utilizes that much vid card memory.....even the game FarCry which is highly graphics intesive. Now as for future games, maybe, but by the time designers start coding textures etc to take advantage of 256MB your card will be obselete.
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If it were my $$$ I would make sure my power supply was up to par, meaning it runs everything with your faster processor and 9800 Pro inside of it. If it runs ok stick with the 128MB version, if you have problems take the $50 difference and get a better power supply. Or take the $50 and buy a DVD burner.........basically what I am saying is with the $50 diff you could get something more tangible, something that you will actually use or see the benefit of.
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The 256MB 9800Pro card uses slower rams and will perform worse than the 128MB card. The 9800XT is another story.
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OK now I'm really confused. Loaded new chip, vid card.
My AHI frame rate remains no better than w/ my old 64 meg card.
I'm runnin it in 800X600. What gives?
What the heck is mip mapping anyway?
Ground clutter off
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Steve, that card performs better at higher resolutions. Turn up the resolution and watch.
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Originally posted by Steve
OK now I'm really confused. Loaded new chip, vid card.
My AHI frame rate remains no better than w/ my old 64 meg card.
I'm runnin it in 800X600. What gives?
What the heck is mip mapping anyway?
Ground clutter off
Did you use some sort of a driver cleaner to get rid of the Nvidia drivers? It is well know that having any remnants of Nvidias drivers on your computer will cripple your ATI
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Just to add a few centavos to this discussion....
You need to make 100% sure you get rid of all the drivers you had on the computer before...TRUST ME...you will be pulling your hair out wondering why your performance stinks when it could be that problem.
You can try a couple of programs...Driver Cleaner or Nasty File Remover....I have used both and they are very effective at removing things....In my opinion.....
DO a search for those programs...you will find em on google or yahoo.
My old system was a Dell 2.0 ghz with an ATI Radeon 9800XT with 256 megs of ram on it. Had good performance....30's to 60's for frame rates with all eyecandy and 1600-1200resolution. My problem came when I got in close to bases....YUCKOLA....framerate s in the high teens....
It was not my card...it was the way the cpu/mobo was channelling info to it...for some reason AH2 "no likey" my system the way I wanted to play. Unfortunately lowering the resolution did pretty much nothing in terms of FPS. Again leading me to believe it was my mobo/cpu combo....It just could not take advantage of the card. I tried everything tweaking for 5 days straight.
Well....fast forward to yesterday!!!! I got my SCREAMER from the guys at digitalcomputech.....specs are in my sig block as well as a link to their site....
VOILA!!! Running AH2 with NO PROBLEMS AT ALL!! All I have on this system is XP Professional and Adaware 6.0 and AH2....THATS IT......game rocks....and the guys at digitalcomputech called me at 1035 my time to see if the next day air shipment made it like UPS said it would (it came 45 min later). They called back and walked me through STEP BY STEP explaining the bios stuff, settings, optimization....EVERYTHING!!!! NOW THAT IS CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!!
Anyhow....Skuzzy is right though the card does runn better in higher res for me...now it is a dead issue but you seem to be going through what I did....because I bought the 9800XT with 256 on it only to be disappointed cuz (not smart here) the card could not utilize its full power with the system I had it on.
Anyhow Regards.....
:)
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Steve, that card performs better at higher resolutions. Turn up the resolution and watch.
Darn, had my hopes up. No good. FR same w/ higher resolution.
Interesting note: in AH2 the game uses about half my vid memory.
In AH1 the game uses less than 10% of my vid memory.
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What FR you getting Steve? I have same card, get about 84 FPS down to 40's over bases with action.
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Correction, my card is the 9800 pro version
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Nuke, mine is 9800 pro... same card! I'm getting disappointing performance so far.
AH1 thinks I only have 240551k of vid memory yet only uses 10% of that.
A question for all you experts: Will my analogue monitor adversely affect my FR?
I have it set to 75 but I'm rarely getting that in either version of the game.
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REFORMAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! INSTALL OMEGA DRIVERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Man, I run two businesses on this PC. Reformatting is something I may need to do, but am going to try everything else first.
Ran PC Cillin...... 4 trojans no real virus.
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My problems began when I ran Hijackthis. I think I deleted a couple of things that should not have been.
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Just bought a new system with the new Radeon X800. Seems to be one of the best out there, and for 400 bucks it should be. Once puter arrives (5 days) ill let ya know how it performs.
You need 3.2 or higher processor to get good capabilities outa this card, otherwise its pretty much dead weight:)
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Steve, are you still using the 1.8Ghz CPU? If so, you are going to be pretty CPU limited for pushing that video card.
When I talked about upping the video resolution, I was not implying it would run faster, but it would not run slower at all. This is not so much due to the video card as it is the lack of CPU to keep the card busy enough.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Steve, are you still using the 1.8Ghz CPU? If so, you are going to be pretty CPU limited for pushing that video card.
When I talked about upping the video resolution, I was not implying it would run faster, but it would not run slower at all. This is not so much due to the video card as it is the lack of CPU to keep the card busy enough.
He bought a 2.8 P4, so it isnt that. How long has it been since you reformatted? Your registry is probably full of so many hole from the virus removal etc etc. Not only that but I would be willing to bet that you still have some left over Nvidia files, and this is why your performance is suffering.
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Originally posted by Steve
Man, I run two businesses on this PC. Reformatting is something I may need to do, but am going to try everything else first.
Ran PC Cillin...... 4 trojans no real virus.
Trojans run in memory IIRC, they are loaded everytime you start you computer. A virus program such as PCcillin or Norton wont get rid of all of them. With Norton you have to start Windows in safe-mode, then do a scan. The trojans put entries into your registry, you have to find where they are(not an easy task) and delete those registry entries.
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My two cents about 128 MB vs 256 MB video cards:
Don't waste your money on 256. Maybe in a few years 256 will become needed, but by then you'll need a new CPU/MOBO/Vid card anyway.
Steve, last night you mentioned you were having a Saitek EVO problem. There's a thread in the Help and Training forum you might want to read.
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TY mosq, I reformatted everything and found some lingering drivers had been tying to run the new vid card,.I'm hoping my troubles w/ the JS were similar. Downloading both AH's as I type. :)
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Not only that but I would be willing to bet that you still have some left over Nvidia files, and this is why your performance is suffering.
Snapper, your hunch here was right on! my interent explorer thread goes into it a bit more. I'm going to run both games after DL and see if there are any changes. my fingers are crossed!
(most excited I've been about scrubbing a hard drive in my life)
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The more Vid memory the better,,,, I read here. What acronym or number on the box would tell me that. Is it the 128Mb or 256mb? or is it in the 5200, 5600 etc?
I have a AMD 2.08 1 gig 333 double sided ram and Gforce fx 5200 128MB card. Obviously I will need a better Vid card from what I've read here.
And, I am running my system ram as 2 sticks of 512mb in the double sided slots. I have 3 sticks of 512 but someone along the way suggested the double would run faster. Would I be better off running all 3 sticks for a total of 1.5G or is the Doubleside in fact faster memory?
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Originally posted by Excaliber
The more Vid memory the better,,,, I read here. What acronym or number on the box would tell me that. Is it the 128Mb or 256mb? or is it in the 5200, 5600 etc?
I have a AMD 2.08 1 gig 333 double sided ram and Gforce fx 5200 128MB card. Obviously I will need a better Vid card from what I've read here.
And, I am running my system ram as 2 sticks of 512mb in the double sided slots. I have 3 sticks of 512 but someone along the way suggested the double would run faster. Would I be better off running all 3 sticks for a total of 1.5G or is the Doubleside in fact faster memory?
Well that depends, is your motherboard based on the NForce2 Platform? If so then yes running your motherboard in dual channel memory mode will be slightly faster. I would venture to say that 1GB of memory in dual channel would benefit you more than 1.5GB not in dual channel. I read somewhere that the benefits of more RAM with current processors/Operating systems really isnt that much after the 512MB mark. That is unless the application you are running will benefit from it (Photoshop, Video Editing, CAD programs etc) But for the casual user they will not really be able to see the benefit of tons of ram.
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Originally posted by Excaliber
The more Vid memory the better,,,, I read here. What acronym or number on the box would tell me that. Is it the 128Mb or 256mb? or is it in the 5200, 5600 etc?
No game out today will take advantage of a 256MB video card, save your $$$$