Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rpm on June 06, 2004, 02:52:05 AM
-
Unbelieveable! (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18948-2004Jun5.html)
GRANBY, Colo., June 5 -- An angry citizen with a grudge against City Hall and the local newspaper was found dead Saturday morning in his home-made armored tank after a destructive rampage that turned parts of downtown Granby into rubble heaps Friday -- but injured no one except the perpetrator.
Police said they worked much of the night with torches and plastic explosives to break through the foot-thick armor welded to a 53-ton Caterpillar D9 bulldozer. The man who wrecked much of Granby, welder Marvin John Heemeyer, 52, was found dead inside, apparently a suicide.
Working for months in a closed garage, Heemeyer equipped an old bulldozer with three television cameras and monitors so he could see to steer. He cut portholes for his guns, then welded a tight enclosure around them so police bullets could not penetrate. For armor, he poured 12 inches of concrete between 2 half-inch steel plates welded to the vehicle. Police found two semiautomatic machine guns, a .223-caliber rifle and two handguns in the vehicle. All those weapons are legal in Colorado.
Heemeyer started down his road to revenge Friday afternoon. He bashed in the cement plant, then rumbled through town to the combination City Hall and library. The tank then rumbled back onto the main street and plowed into the newspaper office, which was leveled. Heemeyer smashed a bank, an electric utility office and the house. With the driver's cabin of his vehicle enclosed in armor, Heemeyer clearly had difficulty steering.
Heemeyer fired several times at the propane tanks at Independent Gas. There was no explosion. Holahan said Heemeyer was armed with a .50-calibre weapon but appeared to be deliberately avoiding injuring anyone during the rampage, which began Friday at about 3 p.m. No other injuries were reported.
He then smashed the home of a former mayor who had supported the cement plant in the planning case, and headed toward his smash-in at the department store. In all, the bulldozer traveled about four miles up and down the main street about 2 mph.
(http://www.news-leader.com/today/0606-Mankilleds_1.jpg)
-
Watch this get used as a by the anti gun lobby... :)
-
mmmm the anti bulldonzer lobby more like - did he actually shoot anyone?
-
Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
mmmm the anti bulldonzer lobby more like - did he actually shoot anyone?
Dont think so. But he had all those evil weapons... :)
Did you ever see the video of the stolen M60 MBT running wild on the streets of san diego?
-
Police found two semiautomatic machine guns, a .223-caliber rifle and two handguns in the vehicle.
hmmm... lets read that first part again...
:rolleyes:
liberals are so terrified they can not even name them properly... better look out Kennedy and company... there's an armored trash truck in your future.... :rofl
-
semiauto machineguns? and the anti firearms rights girls wonder why we laugh at em when we aren't kicking their butts.
lazs
-
I've read 3 or 4 versions of this. Most say he had .50 cal along with a .223 and he was careful not to fire on any innocent bystanders. He had specific targets in mind. I believe both were hunting rifles. Someone heard .50 cal and thought machinegun.
The bulldozer proceeded through town, eventually hitting a dozen buildings and stopping in front of a propane company to fire numerous rounds from the .50-caliber Browning semi-automatic mounted at the front. The sheriff's news release said Heemeyer was aiming at electrical transformers and large propane tanks, which ultimately were not damaged
-
I don't think I've ever heard of a more well-thought out and planned nervous breakdown.
-
there are several .50 semi auto rifles. They have been banned in California by the democrats because.... well because... well no one really knows since no crime has ever been commited with one. This is the closest thing to a crime being commited with a .50 I have ever seen and it doesn't appear to have been any big deal.
you think the women and the libs may be overreacting in Ca.? You want em in your state?
lazs
-
Lazs2, I'm also a gun owner and recreational shooter, and I think you're a bit off your rocker. No offense, of course. :D
-
you aren't the first and probly wouldn't be the last but... what stance about guns that I hold seems "off" to you?
lazs
-
HERE (http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E53%257E2193850,00.html) is a little more detail about the guy. Looks like the town really screwed him over.
-
Originally posted by VOR
Lazs2, I'm also a gun owner and recreational shooter, and I think you're a bit off your rocker. No offense, of course. :D
I want to see pics of Laz's SS tattoo's personally!!
-
I have met a lot of guys on this board... not sure if I have showed em or not or if it even came up but you could ask maybe funked or airhead or hoolign or a few others.
If it really really important to you I could email you a pic. It is a dress dagger with flames around it and the SS runes on an eagle hilt... was actually nice work by a fairly famous chinesse artist. Can't see how it's a big deal one way or the other tho.
You really woulda got your panties in a bunch if you had seen the ones I covered up with a 13" long dragon on the other arm.
lazs
-
vor... still awaiting your reply.. Am I correct in assuming that only the guns you use and like should be legal? that the others pose a danger somehow? I have no use for a .50 semi auto rifle at this time but I would not tell someone they couldn't have one.
Is that what you mean by off your rocker?
lazs
-
Hey Lazs,
Nah, I'm with ya about not telling people what they can and can't have. No issue there. This isn't about legality at all, actually. It's about you being off your rocker :p
I was just yankin' yer chain anyhow. But on a serious note, I got a letter from the NRA asking me to renew my membership. Not gonna do it because the only action I have observed was to solicit more and more funds from me. I think their magazine stinks, I already have enough hats and stickers, and I'm still waiting for them to do something besides try and prove they aren't crazy.
Don't confuse this decision for having taken up a new agenda.
Edit: To expand on my earlier thoughts, this is a fight the pro-gun lobby will eventually lose out on. Although the fear of firearms may be irrational, here's the bottom line: it's easier for them to sway someone to their side of the argument than it is for us to sway someone to our side. Like it or not, it's coming. Consequently, alot weighs on the presentation of the message and the spokesman when it comes to trying to win a heart or mind to our side of the fence...in other words, the more you present yourself in an abrasive, demeaning way, the less likely you are to gain an ally. Just some food for thought.
-
And people still say that land-use planning is boring.
-
Hey Lazs, noticed you were online. Gotta get to work, but would like to continue here if u feel inclined.
-
Semiautomatic machineguns.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
what moron printed that! you girlymen are funny.
-
vor.. I may well be "abrassive" but I am not defeatest. Your handwringing does us no good either.
I believe you are wrong. I see progress everywhere. More and more states are passing right to carry laws... 37 now from 8 ten years ago... the best part is that it is working and being proven... people like lott are writing comprehensive studies debunking the myths..
shooting sports like cowboy action and IDPA are gaining huge followings these are on the one hand, fun and on the other defensive practice. More and more concealed carry firearms are being produced.
The NRA... I don't agree with everything either and don't like getting dunned for money but what organization do you belong to that doesn't? The American Rifleman is a great mag so far as I am concerned and... the NRA promotes childrens gun safety and supports shooting sports and ranges and lobbies for our rights... you sitting on your hands doesn't seem to be much if you will excuse me for saying.
as for you and I? one "off his rocker and abrasive" and the other a defeatest who does nothing except... except what? I may flatter myself but I bet a few people here have read what I said about guns and took a closer look at the facts... I do not have any illusions that the people who are neurotic will be swayed by me wether I am "abrasive" or smoothch their sissy butts.
I also take people out shooting whenever I can... especially young people. I have never seen anyone walk away from a shooting session who didn't have a good time and wonder what all the fuss was about.
What do you do?
lazs
-
Hey again lazs. I wouldn't call it handwringing..somehow when you say that I envision some sort of worrywart with a receding hairline and ulcers. :D I think I'm more of a realist actually..hence my middle-of-the-road stance on most political issues. You know the old saying...the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle between your side and my side of the story. Hence, what you term "defeatism" I like to think of as a down to earth perspective. Hoping for the best, preparing for the worst.
As far as sitting on my hands goes...guilty as charged. I haven't written a single letter or made a single phone call since 94 I think. No excuse.
I also like to invite people to the range with me. As for young people, I really don't know any! My son is 9 and I bought his first rifle already..he'll get it next birthday I think (doesn't know about it yet). In the meantime we enjoy backyard plinking with his air rifle. He's a crack shot too, lemme tell ya! Apple doesn't fall far from the tree! ;) Funny thing is, when I mention this to people they tend to gasp in shocked disbelief. Something to the effect of "How on earth could you give a gun to a kid?" For some reason, the immediate assumtion tends to be that I handed it to him and told him to go have fun. This is, of course, not the case, as I'm sure you know.
Take a look at this bulldozer guy. Personally, if I had to, I couldn't possibly turn it into a pro-gun argument. I'm kind of at a loss here. You and I both know there are plenty of armed and unarmed loonies out there...but I chalk this event up as another log on the anti-gun bonfire. It just seems to me they've got alot more firewood stored up than we do these days! I'll leave the lobbying to the experts here.
Ok, well that about sums up my point of view. Hopefully, I'm not *too* bad of an American.
-
Heemeyer started down his road to revenge Friday afternoon. He bashed in the cement plant, then rumbled through town to the combination City Hall ... He then smashed the home of a former mayor who had supported the cement plant in the planning case,
Good for him. Let those politicians pay for their crimes against the environment!
-
just goes to show, never piss off a welder. any half decent welder can convert a bulldozer to a tank in one over-night shift.
-
Originally posted by capt. apathy
just goes to show, never piss off a welder. any half decent welder can convert a bulldozer to a tank in one over-night shift.
the A-Team could do it in 10 min.
-
vor.. If you are teaching your children a respect and the enjoyment of firearms you are doing something.
I do believe that you are wrong tho. I see progress. I also don't understand what you are talking about on the NRA and their excellent magazine. If you could point out one of the issues that you feel is nort right I could talk about it with you. I have sent the magazine to people on this board.
I admit to be outspoken and to having little patience with the mush heads that parrot anti gun drivel but... I was not defending the welders actions in this story ... re read what I wrote.. I was pointing out that our enemies, the anti gun rights people, are too stupid to even know what guns they are talking about and... I was defending the right of any person to own a .50 caliber semi auto.
How they use it is quite another thing.
Perhaps I am doing more harm than good but I am doing something and supporting those who are defending our rights.. I am willing to discuss it with anyone and, as I have proven I will be glad to take anyone shooting and they can use my guns and ammo... I have sent publications to those who wanted them. Sorry if you think I am abrasive but... most of the girly men liberals I offend as so far away from getting it that they are useless for anthing but to have fun ridiculing.
I am also just as bad when it comes to Hot Rods.
lazs
-
Hey lazs..about the magazine, I just meant that there is a general lack of new material for the writers to add. I've been reading these things for many years and not much seems to have come along in the way of "something different" unless discussing new gear. So, it was not exactly a fair statement for me to say it "stinks". It just doesn't really exite me all that much. Point conceded.
I didn't imply that you were supporting Mr. bulldozer the freedom fighter. A simple miscommunication. I only used his case as a case-in-point to illustrate the fact that you don't hear about many firearm success stories unless you go looking for them. Stories of failure and madmen are plentiful. Bad news just seems to sell more commercial slots than good news, but we already know this. Also, I find it increasingly difficult to present my arguments to the anti-gun types in light of this fact. When all you hear are stories of gang violence, school shootings, and bulldozer McGuyver the mad gunman types, you'll build a barrier that's hard to breach with logic, truth, or good intentions.
As for being off your rocker, no need to apologise to me! I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong, only asking you to consider your audience and tailor your message to them as necessary. As for those who have already closed their minds to the issue, oh well. I don't usually bother with them, but if you wanna poke em with a stick, then who am I to tell you you're wrong? Have fun. :D
-
Originally posted by VOR
Hey lazs..about the magazine, I just meant that there is a general lack of new material for the writers to add. I've been reading these things for many years and not much seems to have come along in the way of "something different" unless discussing new gear. So, it was not exactly a fair statement for me to say it "stinks". It just doesn't really exite me all that much. Point conceded.
I didn't imply that you were supporting Mr. bulldozer the freedom fighter. A simple miscommunication. I only used his case as a case-in-point to illustrate the fact that you don't hear about many firearm success stories unless you go looking for them. Stories of failure and madmen are plentiful. Bad news just seems to sell more commercial slots than good news, but we already know this. Also, I find it increasingly difficult to present my arguments to the anti-gun types in light of this fact. When all you hear are stories of gang violence, school shootings, and bulldozer McGuyver the mad gunman types, you'll build a barrier that's hard to breach with logic, truth, or good intentions.
As for being off your rocker, no need to apologise to me! I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong, only asking you to consider your audience and tailor your message to them as necessary. As for those who have already closed their minds to the issue, oh well. I don't usually bother with them, but if you wanna poke em with a stick, then who am I to tell you you're wrong? Have fun. :D
I'm a life member of the NRA. They are incessantly asking for money. When I can I send it. The reason for my financial support is that I believe that they are doing a consistently good job of chipping away at the stone that is the liberal mindset without the NRA we would be just like our european cousins with regard to our second amendment rights. I would encourage you to send your money in right now. If you can't afford it I will gladly send it for you. Seriously.
-
Thanks for the offer Storch, but it's not a financial issue. I'm looking into some of the other lobby groups right now (didn't realise there were so many!). I may end up renewing with NRA if they end up being the best choice. More to follow.
-
thanks vor.. I think. I am sure we would get along just fine.
Again tho... you are seeing the glass half empty. On this board you hear lot's of success stories with involving fireams.
I would really suggest that you read Lott's book "The bias against Guns" (why allmost everything you have ever been told about guns is wrong)
Lott would agree with you that there is a bias but he points it out and tells why... Also... buying his book is "doing something" because the more his message get's out the better.
we used to take our 22 rifles to school to use them at NRA sponsored safety and marksmanship matches at the local gun range. I look forward to seeing that happen again some time in the future.
the pendulum swung to the left a long way on the gun issue in the last couple of decades because most firearms guys were apathetic. I believe the left has overextende themselves tho and gotten all tangled up in their lies (as the left is wont to do). The pendulum is swinging back the other way.
If you havent read the rifleman in a while then you might be interested in the way they track gun rights bills and laws... we are making progress... the boogey men and myths are being expossed by such things as the real world benifiet of concealled carry laws.
lazs
-
Originally posted by VOR
Thanks for the offer Storch, but it's not a financial issue. I'm looking into some of the other lobby groups right now (didn't realise there were so many!). I may end up renewing with NRA if they end up being the best choice. More to follow.
Do post them if you find others that you consider worthwhile.
-
I've seen you mention that book in another thread. I'll have a look next time I'm in the bookstore.
-
Sure thing Storch. There are at least 2 of them that appear on the Combined Federal Campaign list as charities. Can't remember the names tho..gotta have another look. Also, the JPFO (Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership) comes to mind as a possibility. As with any lobby group, before they get my $ I want to make sure I know what else they might be lobbying for, if anything. Will let ya know what I find.
-
You can probly get a used copy from amazon cheaper.
middle of the road allways seemed like a good place to get killed to me.
I will give you "realist" tho... it is a reality that if we are apathetic the energetic anti gun nuts will prevail. It is also real that good people stepping up are stopping them right now.
lazs
-
Originally posted by lazs2
middle of the road allways seemed like a good place to get killed to me.
lazs
I'll have to admit...it's not an easy place to be. It does provide a death-defying view of both lanes. This, however, is a whole new thread topic....
;)
-
Originally posted by VOR
I'll have to admit...it's not an easy place to be. It does provide a death-defying view of both lanes. This, however, is a whole new thread topic....
;)
When has that ever stopped anyone before??
-
I generally stay to the right except to pass and I have fairly powerful cars so that I don't have to stay in the left too long.
lazs