Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: AKIron on June 08, 2004, 09:12:38 AM
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http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3567929&thesection=news&thesubsection=general
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Better than sheep, I guess.
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As long as its two consenting adults............
right?
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Nevermind that they will bring suit against the state for allowing them to procreate, requiring vast amounts of state collected tax wealth to care medically for their 3 eyed, 5 legged little two headed genetic freak of a baby.
Shoot em. Get it over with.
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Amazing....
Just goes to show that even crazy people write books.
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You gotta be really, REALLY careful if you linebreed.
You could end up with a guy like that one!
;)
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We all know its disgusting..the guy was just trying to make a point.
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Originally posted by jaxxo
We all know its disgusting..the guy was just trying to make a point.
What was his point?
There are many that would eliminate all sense of decency or morals. Nothing wrong with questioning these things imo, so long as you remain objective in your judgement.
Some say that morals are repressive and a means by which the masses are controlled by the religious. Others say that morals are the product of societal evolution. Many believe that morals are dictated by God for the protection of the species. No matter what you might believe, we had better take a close and careful look at our long standing mores before casually dismissing a safeguard that might be standing between us and disaster.
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Coming up next. Two brothers get married and one assists in the suicide of the other.
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Oh no, Pongo, say it ain't so! This is surely a sign of satan coming and the world ending. Save us Jebus!!!
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Personaly, I think it's disgusting and distasteful.
But if Bo and Luke Duke wanna take a consenting Daisy back behind the wood shed.... it's none of my business. But then again, I believe in legalizing suicide..... because again, as long as it's not hurting anyone else...... it's none of my business and it's a personal preference of a consenting adult.... I've got enough going onin my own life to try and run someone elses.
:D
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Originally posted by AKIron
Some say that morals are repressive and a means by which the masses are controlled by the religious. Others say that morals are the product of societal evolution. Many believe that morals are dictated by God for the protection of the species. No matter what you might believe, we had better take a close and careful look at our long standing mores before casually dismissing a safeguard that might be standing between us and disaster.
What is that disaster anyway ?
Jack starts screwing his sister Mary so much that ice caps melt and flood the world ?
Morals.... yeah, right. Last I seen it's a word used as an excuse by those who can't find a rational reason for their beliefs.
:rofl
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In a lot of cases "Morals" = "Dogma"
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I think part of the societal more against incest has its roots in the Royal Families of Europe.
Too vague a reference? Anyone remember the movie "Deliverance"?
(http://www.destgulch.com/images/deliv01.jpg)
Like I said, you have to watch that linebreeding. It strongly reinforces desirable traits...... and strongly reinforces undesirable traits.
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You mean it's good for making good banjo players? ;)
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No, but it's GREAT for making hemophelic royal families!
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Originally posted by mosgood
Personaly, I think it's disgusting and distasteful.
But if Bo and Luke Duke wanna take a consenting Daisy back behind the wood shed.... it's none of my business. But then again, I believe in legalizing suicide..... because again, as long as it's not hurting anyone else...... it's none of my business and it's a personal preference of a consenting adult.... I've got enough going onin my own life to try and run someone elses.
My thoughts exactly. Btw, I don't think it's criminalized in most western coutries?
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Originally posted by Lizking
Better than sheep, I guess.
ahhh.... no.
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Originally posted by Toad
Like I said, you have to watch that linebreeding. It strongly reinforces desirable traits...... and strongly reinforces undesirable traits.
Please cite a scientific source from which you drew this conclusion....
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I'm amazed that a story from a NZ newspaper has made it to this BBS and that it wasn't one about a Sheep. AKIron how did you come across that story?
...-Gixer
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"ahhh.... no." - tumor
-I'll take your word on it.
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Disaster? Aids comes to mind.
If incest becomes no longer taboo between siblings how much longer before sex between parent and child is winked at. Those of you that can't or won't see a slippery slope here need to get your vision checked.
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DING! Post is done! Only 21 posts before this morality thread generated the term "slippery slope". Congratulations, Iron, you win a years supply of baking soda, a cheesehead, and a free pass to the next Republican National Convention!
(http://www.borgesonstudio.com/handson/sodabox.jpg)
(http://www.villagehatshop.com/media/cheesehead.gif)
(http://www.baldwingop.org/elephant.jpg)
Thanks everyone for playing, and better luck next time!
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That's a tiny box of baking soda.
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Originally posted by SOB
DING! Post is done! Only 21 posts before this morality thread generated the term "slippery slope". Congratulations, Iron, you win a years supply of baking soda, a cheesehead, and a free pass to the next Republican National Convention!
Thanks everyone for playing, and better luck next time!
Woohoo!
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Originally posted by hawker238
Please cite a scientific source from which you drew this conclusion....
Mostly it comes from being around people real, real serious about producing superior Labrador retriever lines. In short, the real world.
However, entertain yourself by putting "linebreeding dangers" in Google and you'll get stuff like this:
Geneticists and livestock breeders use the term "linebreeding" to refer to any mating program (even closer than four generations) that repeats lines to a specific, presumably superior, ancestor.
This is done in the hopes of increasing the chances of that ancestor's superior genes coming down to the resulting offspring. This is the purpose of linebreeding, to increase the potential for inheriting superior gene combinations.
These same experts know that using this breeding method with closely related individuals (i.e., inbreeding and closebreeding) is a very risky business because while it may increase the possibility of inheriting superior genes, it also increases the possibility of inheriting any hidden, possibly negative recessive characteristics that may go along with this ancestor's genotype.
In short, I'm foregoing citing you sources because it's considered common knowledge.
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Most states in the U.S. will allow you to marry your first cousin.
Yeah... it's creepy, but some of my cousins are hot. ;)
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Originally posted by AKIron
Disaster? Aids comes to mind.
If incest becomes no longer taboo between siblings how much longer before sex between parent and child is winked at. Those of you that can't or won't see a slippery slope here need to get your vision checked.
Why do you say Aids? Is that caused by incest? I never knew that.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Disaster? Aids comes to mind.
If incest becomes no longer taboo between siblings how much longer before sex between parent and child is winked at. Those of you that can't or won't see a slippery slope here need to get your vision checked.
You could aswell say that premarital sex is part of that slope. I don't see why anyone should care about what consenting adults do between themselves, no matter what their relationship is.
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There probably was a time when they DID say that.
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Originally posted by mosgood
Why do you say Aids? Is that caused by incest? I never knew that.
I'm referring to the violation of social taboos or decline of morals in general.
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Originally posted by AKIron
I'm referring to the violation of social taboos or decline of morals in general.
I'm not so sure that Morality is declining.... it IS definatley changing.
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Originally posted by hawker238
Please cite a scientific source from which you drew this conclusion....
If you can, pick up a book on population genetics or take a course in it. Pay particular attention to the section in dealing with gene drift in a small population. What happens is that you will get an ever increasing number of homozygous genotypes. This means that offspring are more likey to have two copies of a specific allele of a gene. You will get an increased number of offspring that have two copies of a dominant allele and some that have two copies of the recessive allele.
I would recommend a google search for inbreeding depression, population bottleneck, and/or population genetics. While it is difficult to perform a test of this on humans (all sorts of legal issues), it is done all the time with animals (and not necessarily for testing these ideas).
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What I don't understand is why two parents with the same genotypes would produce an inferior offspring. I understand that it produces a lack of variety from a evolutionary standpoint, but what about getting two similar... can't think of the word... haploids maybe? What about getting two similar haploids from the parents causes defects.
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Did someone say "paleolithic"?
(http://www.jenniferodell.org/gmiz/tree2.jpg)
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Don't misunderstand.
Linebreeding, done carefully and correctly can have outstanding, superb results. George Bird Evans created a wonderful line of "Old Hemlock" setters using it. Wehle did the same with his "Elhew" line of pointers.
The key factor is that these guys knew EXACTLY where they wanted to go and ruthlessly culled dogs from the line that showed any undesirable traits.
The problem is those "unknown" faults that crop up, the "hidden, possibly negative recessive characteristics that may go along with this ancestor's genotype".
Allergeies, hemophelia, vision problems.. there's a host of potential problems.
However, if you can get to the "promised land" and breed the perfect specimen, you can then repeat it almost ad infinitum. As in the Old Hemlock and Elhew dogs. At least until people dilute your "perfect" line with an outcross. ;)
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Oh, so most of these defects are recessive genes that are cancelled by normal breeding? Now I got it.
Wouldn't that negative trait be necessarily expressed in the phenotype of one partner or, if both have a dominant gene and a recessive gene, wouldn't that be a one quarter chance of phenotype expression in the offspring?
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Originally posted by Toad
However, if you can get to the "promised land" and breed the perfect specimen, you can then repeat it almost ad infinitum. As in the Old Hemlock and Elhew dogs. At least until people dilute your "perfect" line with an outcross. ;)
Seems I remember that about 60 some odd years someone did want to do that with humans. ;)
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Depends on what you want out of the breeding doesn't it?
And no, the "negative" trait isn't always expressed in the phenotype of one partner. For example, many Black Labs carry a Chocolate gene and unless you know their correct "color ancestry" back 4-5 generations, you'd have to DNA test to know that. Fortunately, breeders generally keep good records. ;)
Black coat color in Labs is important to some folks while others prefer Chocolate. Chocolate coloring is recessive. At one time, Chocolate pups were almost routinely destroyed by Lab breeders. So is Chocolate good or bad?
This is an oversimplification of course. If you're intrigued by this:
A Detailed Examination of Coat Color Genetics (http://www.labbies.com/genetics2.htm)
or the "short answer".. just click on the color pairs to the left and see what you get. ;)
Coat Color Inheritance In The Labrador Retriever (http://www.blueknightlabs.com/color/coatcolor.html)
And remember, we're talking something simple and obvious here, coat color. Progressive retinal atrophy (PRA) is not so simple; they've just now started building a DNA database for that and the test is barely affordable ($250 each dog). But if enough folks do the test, and use the results, PRA could be greatly reduced in a breed if not almost eliminated.
Imagine the possibilities with allergies to various things. Whew!
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Originally posted by AKIron
Seems I remember that about 60 some odd years someone did want to do that with humans. ;)
Yeah, they were pretty ruthless in THEIR culling too.
Which is one of the BIG problems with linebreeding humans. What do you do with the three-headed non-functional mistakes?
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Originally posted by Toad
Yeah, they were pretty ruthless in THEIR culling too.
Which is one of the BIG problems with linebreeding humans. What do you do with the three-headed non-functional mistakes?
Send 'em somewhere they'll fit in, Canada? :p
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Originally posted by hawker238
What I don't understand is why two parents with the same genotypes would produce an inferior offspring. I understand that it produces a lack of variety from a evolutionary standpoint, but what about getting two similar... can't think of the word... haploids maybe? What about getting two similar haploids from the parents causes defects.
The parents may have the same genotype. The problem is that they may be heterozygous (one each of the dominant and recessive). When they crossbreed, they may produce an offspring that is homozygous for that gene. Thus, you can get either the desirable or the undesirable. This doesn't include x-linked genes such as hemophilia (where the mother is a carrier and any male offspring could be affected depending on which allele is "given" by the mother).