Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Zanth on June 08, 2004, 09:12:56 AM

Title: P51b
Post by: Zanth on June 08, 2004, 09:12:56 AM
I never liked ponies before, but the p51B is a very nice plane.  I was shocked at how well it handles.  Later I was shocked again to see it has an ENY of 35 or something lke that.  We are going to see a lot more of these, and one of em will probably be me till I get bored with it.


Someone needs to make some skins for it though. only has the default (which isnt bad, just like variety).

this is a pretty one:

(http://www.web-birds.com/8th/352/p51bprofile487.jpg)

487th Fighter Squadron P51B "Francis B Too" of Ralph Hamilton, in full D-Day markings
Title: P51b
Post by: Zanth on June 08, 2004, 09:42:14 AM
Is that a rear view mirror on top of the canopy?
Title: P51b
Post by: Batz on June 08, 2004, 09:57:04 AM
yeah its a mirror. The p51b is good looking plane, the C looks even better. All though I will never fly one of all the Ami planes it looks best....

I  have a pic of a captured p51b in lw colors (wilbuz posted a profile a while back) I might be able to convince myself to fly it in those colors....
Title: Re: P51b
Post by: Tilt on June 08, 2004, 10:15:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Zanth
but the p51B is a very nice plane.  I was shocked at how well it handles.  



Ssssshhhhhhhhhh damit............ they'll all be flyin one..........
Title: P51b
Post by: MachNix on June 08, 2004, 10:53:05 AM
It is pretty.  Unfortunately, the current skin for the b version has the nose mirrored.  Anything forward of the firewall, like the name "Frances B. Too!", will be mirrored on the other side.

MachNix
Title: P51b
Post by: Octavius on June 08, 2004, 12:13:06 PM
Yup, one of the first skins I attempted was hosed due to the unnecessary mirroring.  Room for the mirrored side on the bitmap is provided and it still mirrors.  Hopefully this will get fixed post-release :)
Title: how difficult?
Post by: Adogg on June 08, 2004, 12:39:09 PM
How difficult is it to add rear-view mirrors to the cockpits of those that had them?
Title: P51b
Post by: LWACE on June 08, 2004, 01:32:27 PM
Batz ima LW guy to, and id love to see some of the other planes that were captured skinned in LW colors!

Maybe some of the skinners on here can make us afew:D

I would ,by skinning for me is hopeless:(
Title: Re: P51b
Post by: -MZ- on June 08, 2004, 02:17:20 PM
It is the best plane for getting assists.
Title: P51b
Post by: Guppy35 on June 08, 2004, 02:21:12 PM
What would be nice is if you could have a choice to have both B/C models and D models in the same Group markings so you could mix and match formations.  There certainly were flying both together in the same squadrons and groups in WW2.

The mirrors btw were Spitfire mirrors, very coveted by the 8th fighter pilots.  some D Mustangs had two mounted on the windscreen.  Most Mustangs had at least one mounted.

Image is an old profile I did of a 353rd P51C.

Dan/Slack
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1086722125_luckyleaky.jpg)
Title: P51b
Post by: fluffy on June 08, 2004, 05:17:56 PM
The p51B is a real sleeper all right - it was my favourite ride in AH1 too.  I'm just a mediocre stick in a dogfight, but the p51B appears to have an energy edge over the 'D' in a one-on-one.   I think that the 4x.50 guns and the laticework in the canopy discourage a lot of people from picking this sweet ride more often.  The truth is that the 4x.50s are all you need against nme fighters, if you can hit with them - although I admit they aren't so good versus buffs.  Plus people seem to take the 'B' lightly when they face one, figuring that it's "not dangerous". This, of course, is a mistake.
I like the olive drab paint scheme best as it is better camoflage then the silver schemes used for the 'D', and I know I find it harder to see and hit AH planes that have good camo, icons or not, in low level fights.  I may fly the 'D' more often in AHII than before now that an olive skin is available for it.
I'd love to see the 'C' model, or anyway Malcolm hood upgrades to the 'B' available in AH2 someday. Being a canuck I'm required to have a special fondness for Spitfires - and I do, but the AH plane I feel most at home in is the Mustang III (P51-B).
Title: P51b
Post by: AKFokerFoder+ on June 08, 2004, 05:26:44 PM
It will be a great day when those planes that had mirrors get them modeled in AH.  It will make the views more realistic.

The pony B with mirrors would be a saaa weet ride :)

AKFokerFoder+
Title: P51b
Post by: TDeacon on June 08, 2004, 06:24:54 PM
Not sure if it just my display, but if you carefully compare the p51b game model with any good side view, the model looks compressed in the vertical dimension.  

How p51-b now appears (vertical dimension too small):
(https://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/ah2_p51d.JPG)

How p51-b should appear (vertical dimension correct):
(https://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/squadron_p51d.JPG)
Title: P51b
Post by: ergRTC on June 08, 2004, 06:38:24 PM
Thanks for reminding me about the b.  A truly fantastic aircraft.  I have read that it was more streamlined due to the lack of the bubble cockpit (the razorback) and had a higher speed at lower alts because of it.  It is also considerably lighter and more agile.  Only issue I think is the fuel loadout.


It does need a new skin, and that suggestion about matching skins with the d is a very good one.  I would love to see a mixed formation.
Title: P51b
Post by: ergRTC on June 08, 2004, 06:45:50 PM
And for those people that dis the stang for being too good... here are some sad pictures....


(http://141.161.196.100/mustang.GIF)

(http://141.161.196.100/mustang2.GIF)


But look at that wonderful climb in the p51b up high.  Very nice.
Title: P51b
Post by: TDeacon on June 08, 2004, 08:01:02 PM
Note I have added comparative images to my previous post, to illustrate my claim of the p51-b model being out of proportion.
Title: P51b
Post by: GtoRA2 on June 08, 2004, 08:23:46 PM
Erg
 Is that a program you can download that displays the performace like that?
Title: P51b
Post by: GScholz on June 08, 2004, 08:31:36 PM
Why do some people like the C better? I don't think there was any difference. AFAIK the B and C models were the same, just made at different factories (B was built at Inglewood, California, and C at Dallas, Texas). Both could have the Malcolm hood.
Title: P51b
Post by: ergRTC on June 08, 2004, 09:15:04 PM
tdeacon, can you find a photo rather than a drawing?  I have seen them 1st person at airshows, and I am not sure even myself.

Here is the link to that program.  Very useful, web based java

http://www.jannousiainen.net/online_sims/jg_4/index.htm

For the CT this is a must.  For the TOD I am sure it will only be more useful.  Particularly for cruise speeds as well.
Title: P51b
Post by: TDeacon on June 08, 2004, 09:18:46 PM
I have many drawings, in various publications, from various decades, and they all show that same "chubby" look.  Hard to find a photo exactly from side, at distance sufficient to minimize distortion.  

I would prefer the AH p51-d to be about 5% higher (probably not HTC's highest priority, though)
Title: P51b
Post by: Guppy35 on June 08, 2004, 10:03:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Why do some people like the C better? I don't think there was any difference. AFAIK the B and C models were the same, just made at different factories (B was built at Inglewood, California, and C at Dallas, Texas). Both could have the Malcolm hood.


I think you hit on the problem GScholz.  Some seem to think the Malcom hood was specific to the C model.  Some also think that the C was the only natural metal 'razorback'

C Production ran a bit longer then the B out of Inglewood to finish up some production orders however, so the "razorback" Mustangs that were still flying in later 44 and 45 were more then likely C models.

The Recce F6s were more Cs then Bs too I believe

Dan/Slack
Title: P51b
Post by: gofaster on June 09, 2004, 11:10:15 AM
So can I count everyone here as part of my "Bring the Malcolm Hood to AH" army?  Our numbers are growing every day!

edit: by the way, you can avoid the "B-Stang Assist Syndrome" by actually staying behind your target for more than 1 second; assuming fellow countrymen don't jump down and steal your fish off the hook with their Spitfire IX cannons.
Title: P51b
Post by: Zanth on June 09, 2004, 12:09:58 PM
Until this thread I did not realize that a "Malcom Hood" was not some sort of engine cover  (lol).
Title: P51b
Post by: Guppy35 on June 09, 2004, 02:10:37 PM
From the 359th FG History, taken in November 44, just to illustrate the point.

Two P51B/C in formation with 4 D models.  One B/C with the Malcom and one with the "coffin" hood.  But both still flying Ops in the late fall of 44

Not the best photo, but it shows the mix of Mustang types

Dan/Slack
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1086808057_3592.jpg)
Title: P51b
Post by: gofaster on June 09, 2004, 02:47:13 PM
That photo looks like it was taken by the flight leader looking over his right shoulder.  Notice how the two D-stangs wing together and the two B-stangs wing together, in that leading 4-ship.
Title: P51b
Post by: Morpheus on June 09, 2004, 02:56:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Zanth
Is that a rear view mirror on top of the canopy?


Most had them.
Title: P51b
Post by: Guppy35 on June 09, 2004, 04:28:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by gofaster
That photo looks like it was taken by the flight leader looking over his right shoulder.  Notice how the two D-stangs wing together and the two B-stangs wing together, in that leading 4-ship.




Gotta admit they look good together though don't they? :)

Dan/Slack
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1086816463_2ofakind.jpg)
Title: P51b
Post by: Replicant on June 09, 2004, 04:55:53 PM
Be nice if they did model a Malcolm Hood Mustang!  It really looks sweet!  :)
Title: P51b
Post by: GtoRA2 on June 09, 2004, 05:22:47 PM
They should model the malcom hood model and make it like 1 perk point.
Title: P51b
Post by: Widewing on June 09, 2004, 05:50:26 PM
I only wish that HTC would correct the landing gear angle. It's off by a considerable margin. It creates a nose-high ground stance and shifts the on-ground CG forward, making it excessively prone to nosing over under breaking. It also looks screwy..... like a kid making his first plastic P-51 model and inadvertently reversing the landing gear legs..... See below.

(http://home.att.net/~historyworld/Mustang_Gear.jpg)

My regards,

Widewing