Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: twitchy on June 08, 2004, 11:11:33 AM

Title: Oink
Post by: twitchy on June 08, 2004, 11:11:33 AM
One thing that I think would vastly improve realism in the game is to get rid of enemy icons! It seems oddly a bit like training wheels and ruined night flights. Which by the way I actually enjoyed. WE never figured out what day the stars were set to, now we will never know :(   Get rid of Icons, Bring Back Night Time, and give me a P61 Black Widow and I will show you how to Jabo!
Skuzzy, Hitech, Pyro... I am going to hold my breath and refuse to eat until I get  P61 Black Widow!
Title: Oink
Post by: Saintaw on June 08, 2004, 11:13:28 AM
I hope your neighhbour is not planning to have a BBQ in his garden any time soon!
Title: Oink
Post by: TDeacon on June 08, 2004, 08:50:01 PM
Realism in every facet of a game isn't always a good thing.  For a particular game element, it's only good if the enjoyment it delivers is worth the cost.  

In any case, if you get rid of icons, how will you ID enemies, since they could be flying the same plane as yourself??
Title: Re: Oink
Post by: Karnak on June 08, 2004, 10:17:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by twitchy
One thing that I think would vastly improve realism in the game is to get rid of enemy icons!  


Yeah, because all fighter pilots in WWII were legally blind.
Title: karnak
Post by: twitchy on June 08, 2004, 11:00:16 PM
No they weren't legally blind, they were able to recognise the enemy fighter types without having a little red text buffer hovering around them. :rolleyes:
Title: Oink
Post by: GtoRA2 on June 08, 2004, 11:07:23 PM
Twitchy
 Your idea would put HTC out of buisnes.

 We are stuck with moniters do not come close to being to let us see as well as our eyes would.
Title: Re: karnak
Post by: Karnak on June 09, 2004, 01:40:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by twitchy
No they weren't legally blind, they were able to recognise the enemy fighter types without having a little red text buffer hovering around them. :rolleyes:


Without ID aids you would be simulating pilots that are legally blind.
Title: Oink
Post by: moose on June 09, 2004, 01:45:25 AM
someone once told me that the only real accurate FOV is when you're fully zoomed in.. so we'd need monitors the size of 55" widescreens.

try fighting in the DA sans icons. it's incredibly tough even just 2v2
Title: Oink
Post by: Tex68 on June 09, 2004, 09:06:02 AM
So would you suggest that HT make Bish all US planes, Knight all LW, and Rook all Japanese planes so that we could tell who the enemy is. I think this would cause the same problem we have with the scenarios  that most people would prefer to fly US.

Also without the icons and I assume the radar since that too is a "training wheels" item, then we would fly for hours looking for the enemy. Though this would be more RL, I know it would not be fun to me.

And that's why I'm here.... to have FUN.

My .02 worth.
Title: Oink
Post by: Zanth on June 09, 2004, 09:11:06 AM
Warbirds III planes are bigger, and it didnt work so well there.  I guess you can set icons the way you want and test it out, but you won't  like it.
Title: Oink
Post by: HavocTM on June 09, 2004, 10:27:15 AM
Just turn icons off... VOILA!

Problem solved.

Next problem?
Title: Oink
Post by: Mugzeee on June 09, 2004, 01:39:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TDeacon
Realism in every facet of a game isn't always a good thing.  For a particular game element, it's only good if the enjoyment it delivers is worth the cost.  

In any case, if you get rid of icons, how will you ID enemies, since they could be flying the same plane as yourself??

Actually the answer is quite simple. And you prolly alreeady know it. Remove ONLY the NME Icons.. freindlys remain on.  Also the Zoom feature is quite simple to use. I use it all the time. I Zoom on distant Dots to determine their direction of travel and orientation.

Quote
Originally posted by HavocTM
Just turn icons off... VOILA!

Problem solved.

Next problem?

Well now.. that's just Crazy Talk.:D  IF the NME has ICON on you..and Dont have Icon on them. You are going to be in deep doodoo. LOL But as a MA setting. I fully would support it.
Title: Oink
Post by: Karnak on June 09, 2004, 07:31:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
Actually the answer is quite simple. And you prolly alreeady know it. Remove ONLY the NME Icons.. freindlys remain on.  Also the Zoom feature is quite simple to use. I use it all the time. I Zoom on distant Dots to determine their direction of travel and orientation.


That's real convienient if the dot happens to reside in the small chunk of the screen that will get zoomed.  Otherwise you'll spend many seconds trying to find it.

And when you do, you still won't be able to see it as clearly as in reality by any means.
Title: Oink
Post by: Mugzeee on June 09, 2004, 08:39:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
That's real convienient if the dot happens to reside in the small chunk of the screen that will get zoomed.  Otherwise you'll spend many seconds trying to find it.

And when you do, you still won't be able to see it as clearly as in reality by any means.
 The Zoom is variable.  I use the Bracket Keys  [   and   ]  to set default zoom to my liking. Not the Game default. Its set at about 50% of the Game default zoom. Several of use have played  in H2H sessions with ICONS off for the Real Feel many times. Its really not that difficult after you get used to it. Its all relative. If all were subjected to the same settings, then all would adapt. Try it sometimes. It's actually a lot of fun. :)
Title: Oink
Post by: Karnak on June 10, 2004, 01:00:43 AM
I have the variable controls setup on my HOTAS.

My qualm is that looking at a plane in full zoom usually requires wagling the aircraft all over untill you get the dot in the zoomed area.  I haven't seen much footage of WWII pilots moving their planes around so that they could get a look at that aircraft just forward of the spot directly level and to the right.

In reality we have vastly better control over what we look at.  Claiming that the zoom feature makes up for the resolution issues (it doesn't) ignores the problems it introduces.


I would like to see an improved icon system and I do think it is possible.  However, I have absolutely no desire to play "dot chaser online".  Been there, done that.  It s****d.
Title: sigh
Post by: twitchy on June 12, 2004, 01:18:28 PM
I think Mugzeee is the only guy that got my point.
Title: Oink
Post by: nopoop on June 12, 2004, 01:40:11 PM
Been there done that, chasing dots sucks.

With a thud.

When WB still had some decent ( from their point of view ) numbers they had a no icon arena for those lovers of "realism".

That arena was PACKED with as many as six people on some nights. Most nights it was two or three.

I tried it a few times, was in a squad at the time that loved it.

Gave me a headache from squinting.

But it was so real I could smell the sweat in my flight helmut..

..there I was way back in WWII in a real fighter plane.

Gave me goosebumps..

..and a headache.
Title: Oink
Post by: Mugzeee on June 12, 2004, 05:08:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by nopoop
Been there done that, chasing dots sucks.

With a thud.

When WB still had some decent ( from their point of view ) numbers they had a no icon arena for those lovers of "realism".

 That arena was PACKED with as many as six people on some nights. Most nights it was two or three.

I tried it a few times, was in a squad at the time that loved it.

Gave me a headache from squinting.

But it was so real I could smell the sweat in my flight helmut..

..there I was way back in WWII in a real fighter plane.

Gave me goosebumps..

..and a headache.

Woud that be because they had an option?
I hear ya on the sweating bullets part. I guess thats the lure for me. One thing is for certian. It would curtail the Simi AFK boob tube climbouts. :D
Title: Oink
Post by: Arlo on June 12, 2004, 05:51:23 PM
The compromise:

Keep icons ... reduce the info

Enemy are red and it has a chesspiece (though I'd like to see AHII go to card suits - heh). In the TOD ... make the icon a national marking. Friendlies are green and have a name (we know what side we're on).
Title: Oink
Post by: DipStick on June 12, 2004, 08:26:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
I hear ya on the sweating bullets part. I guess thats the lure for me.

Does the term 'sarcasm' mean anything to you?
Title: Re: karnak
Post by: DREDIOCK on June 12, 2004, 08:54:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by twitchy
No they weren't legally blind, they were able to recognise the enemy fighter types without having a little red text buffer hovering around them. :rolleyes:


theres a cute little trick the germans used to pull.
They would take down Allied aircraft, repair them and send them up to fly with our bombers them shoot them down.
Eventuallly the allies caught on and were able to figure out when there was a plane suddenly flying along side them that didnt belong there.

We dont have that kinda organazation here.
Plus by and large the Germans usually flew german aircraft  that the allied planes were able to identify as enemy.
and vise versa.

Unless each side had its own set of aircraft   we would never know when we were flying alongside an enemy plane or a friendly one

Plus each side having its own set of aircraft Which we already know doesnt work because it was tried in AW Axis Vrs Allies arena with only very very limited success
Title: Re: sigh
Post by: Karnak on June 12, 2004, 11:48:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by twitchy
I think Mugzeee is the only guy that got my point.

No, I got your point, you're just wrong.
Title: Oink
Post by: zorstorer on June 13, 2004, 01:05:06 AM
I normaly don't post but that made me laugh Karnak.
Title: Oink
Post by: Saintaw on June 13, 2004, 02:53:46 AM
I have a proposition if Icons are to be removed:

Make Bish planes pink
Nit planes bright green
but keep the camo on rook planes :D
Title: Oink
Post by: Replicant on June 13, 2004, 03:19:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
I have a proposition if Icons are to be removed:

Make Bish planes pink
Nit planes bright green
but keep the camo on rook planes :D


....with camo over the canopy too! :)
Title: Oink
Post by: Meatwad on June 13, 2004, 02:29:14 PM
Hit Alt-I to turn icons off.
Title: Oink
Post by: Maniac on June 14, 2004, 05:48:40 AM
Enable icons on friendly ACīs and remove them from non friendly ACīs

Ask yourself, why can FPS and any other "war games" you play over the net do without icons?
Title: Re: Oink
Post by: WilldCrd on June 14, 2004, 05:58:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by twitchy
One thing that I think would vastly improve realism in the game is to get rid of enemy icons! It seems oddly a bit like training wheels and ruined night flights. Which by the way I actually enjoyed. WE never figured out what day the stars were set to, now we will never know :(   Get rid of Icons, Bring Back Night Time, and give me a P61 Black Widow and I will show you how to Jabo!
Skuzzy, Hitech, Pyro... I am going to hold my breath and refuse to eat until I get  P61 Black Widow!


THIS JUST IN: A man in N.C. DIED today as a result of malnutrition and lack of oxygen.
Other than a large bruise on his head and a hole on the wall no other sighns of physical trauma are present. Athourities are "baffled" but still investigating.
Title: Oink
Post by: Crumpp on June 14, 2004, 07:22:11 AM
I for one loved that WBIII room with no icons.

I used to up a dora and climb to just above the cloud layer.  When I spotted an icon I would stalk it using the clouds to duck in and out of.  When I closed the distance and ID the target  I let them have it.  Just like real life most of your victims never knew you where there.  

When you did get spotted and that enemy plane suddenly banked....

Well you knew he saw you and you knew ONE of you wasn't flying home....THE FIGHT WAS ON.  I think I actually said "OHHH SH___!!" a couple of times.

I think for Tour of Duty no enemy icons would be a great thing.  Friendly icon (names) needs to be left on since we don't have individually numbered planes.  You have to be able to ID your wingman/squadmates.

Crumpp
Title: Oink
Post by: Zanth on June 14, 2004, 08:53:33 AM
Sometimes I wish, while you still had enemy red icon, that you didn't get the plane type icon until really close.  We know too much from extreme range.
Title: Oink
Post by: DREDIOCK on June 14, 2004, 11:31:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Maniac
Enable icons on friendly ACīs and remove them from non friendly ACīs

Ask yourself, why can FPS and any other "war games" you play over the net do without icons?


Now that might work