Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Aces High Bug Reports => Topic started by: Killjoy2 on June 08, 2004, 07:52:47 PM
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1) On my FE the P-38 now rotates left from the torque. It doesn't do this in AH1. What happened to counter rotating props? I checked each engine separately to see if they are turning in the right direction and they are, but it still pulls to the left. Not just a little, but enought to really make a difference.
2) 1 degree of flaps seems to unbalance the flight dynamics substanitally. This is also significantly different from AH1. This problem may be related to item #1. It acts like one fo the engines is not putting out full power in AH1. It gets real unstable.
Since I have only my FE with which to judge, I hoping we can get a report from some others.
I have calibrated my joystick to make sure I'm at zero.
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Was that on the map with the 10mph wind?
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The P38 does have a large amount of torque now, only diminished when you throttle down.
It flops around like a fish at low speed in a turn as well, no matter how much flaps you use.
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the p38 is seems porked indeed especialy the nose up on dives
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I guess one other observation on the New P-38. It doesn't compress anything like AH1.
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Counter-rotating props would negate torque. I am not sure checking the graphics for "rotation" means the torque is properly modelled.
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Originally posted by Killjoy2
1) On my FE the P-38 now rotates left from the torque. It doesn't do this in AH1. What happened to counter rotating props? I checked each engine separately to see if they are turning in the right direction and they are, but it still pulls to the left. Not just a little, but enought to really make a difference.
Describe the situation you are talking about here.
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It pulls left on takeoff and requires significantly more rudder to pull straight.
It pulled left so much that I re-calibrated my joystick to see if that was the problem.
Next I started one engine and gunned it to check for torque effects. Each engine pushed the opposite way. But it still pulls left on takeoff. However, it straightens out at speed like a P-51 might.
The P-38 is behaving badly at low speeds during combat. Perhaps this torque effect at takeoff (low speed) is apparent in low speed combat, thus causing the flip-flop effects we experience.
Thanks
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Is there normal that reducing rpm in the 38 reduce manifold too ?
Or is it a mapping problem on my end ?
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Originally posted by Killjoy2
It pulls left on takeoff and requires significantly more rudder to pull straight.
It pulled left so much that I re-calibrated my joystick to see if that was the problem.
Next I started one engine and gunned it to check for torque effects. Each engine pushed the opposite way. But it still pulls left on takeoff. However, it straightens out at speed like a P-51 might.
The P-38 is behaving badly at low speeds during combat. Perhaps this torque effect at takeoff (low speed) is apparent in low speed combat, thus causing the flip-flop effects we experience.
Thanks
I can't duplicate that. You sure you don't have an inadvertant rudder input? Also, are you using manual trim or combat trim? If you're using manual triim, you need to be certain that they are centered.
Straffo, the effect is correct. Whether the scale of that effect is correct, I'll have to take a look at. But you can't run high MP, low RPM.
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Pyro I now have the same problem only mine pulls to the right. The slip indicator will peg itself to the right at 1500 RPMs and takes about 1/2 rudder travel to over come it. It dosent slowly move but just jumps and peggs out. Once airspeed gets to a point that a tail draggers tail would start to rise it straightens out. I have a screen shot of it if you would like to see it.
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Just recalibrated and tried it again and now it pulls to the right on takeoff.
I tried low speed turns with flaps and while a little dicey, not too bad unless you jerk it around. I lost control of it at one point and augered in. It just mushed back and forth nose down going 200+. I dropped 2000 feet without getting control back. This wasn't a snap roll or a flat spin. I was heading down at 200+ without being able to control it. No Combat Trim. I did have rudder control.
On the other hand, the Hammerhead is nice. I also tried the P-38 trick of reducing power to the inside engine during a turn and that manuever worked better than any flight sim yet.
Hope we get this sorted out.
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Originally posted by Pyro
I can't duplicate that. You sure you don't have an inadvertant rudder input? Also, are you using manual trim or combat trim? If you're using manual triim, you need to be certain that they are centered.
Straffo, the effect is correct. Whether the scale of that effect is correct, I'll have to take a look at. But you can't run high MP, low RPM.
Thanks, I need to check tonight but it seems (from my bad memory) that the Typhoon can be used with high MP and low RPM Perhaps it is normal.
Another question
In the Typhoon the GPH decrease when climbing to have the minimun at about 10K then it increase again from 10 to about 12 to stay stable until 17K when it start again to decrease.
Also I've seen between 10 and 12K a spike in the GPH (I'm not sure I need to test further perhaps I did engage WEP by error)
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killjoy, was it online or offline? Make sure to check the winds.
HiTech
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tested this am
offline - had slight left pull until I calibrated, then straight as an arrow
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P-38 Test
Online
Calibrated
Wind is 9
Altitude 0
1) I observe a pull to the right or left depending on the wind direction.
2) Pull is present without engine on when rolling.
Does 9mph push that hard on takeoff?
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At low speed the P38 in AH2 has torque and pulls from side to side like mad.
Is this on purpose?
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Yes it does killjoy
HiTech
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I got the same thing ... 38 pulling left ... thought it was my stick..... I didn't check wind .. will next time i'm in there...
But stick was fine- i was looking at ah indicator .. rudder was centered...
Though, 38 seems to handle fine in the air to me....
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Pyro, it's kinda hard to center the trim indicators for a couple reasons...
1) There is no centering mark
2) Either CT or auto-takeoff has the aircraft trimmed for you before takeoff regardless of whether or not you have either one on. To boot, the trim is in both the wrong direction and the wrong amount. A long reported bug that's never been fixed.
3) There is no indication of how many degrees of trim is available
4) There are no markings to indicate how many degrees of trim you put in
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If it's in the middle, it's centered. Doesn't matter which way or how many degrees it goes. I know the torque and slipstream effects of the two engines are canceling each other because when I run through the combat trim learner, only the elevator trim receives any input. However, I did find a problem below 150 where the combat trim settings needed to be manually cleaned up because the function that sets the combat trim settings doesn't work at those low speeds. That would cause the bug that you're talking about with the starting trim being off as that affects starting trim whether you have CT on or not.
I'm still somewhat perplexed by the reports of the change in the 38's characteristics during the beta. I did make a change that made it's stall behavior a bit more docile. This means you can pull into a pretty deep stall before it wants to drop a wing. It could be that people are pulling too deep into the stall rather than riding the peak. The only other thing I can think of is higher fuel loading.
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Docile? Its horrible! The P38 flies more like a Me110 does now, makes no sense to me what so ever.
Get below 150 and turn with it, flaps or not, she flops around like a fish, or akin to an aircraft with torque.
Originally posted by Pyro
I'm still somewhat perplexed by the reports of the change in the 38's characteristics during the beta. I did make a change that made it's stall behavior a bit more docile.
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I checked .. on My FE it was/is wind ...
didn't think about checking thought was my stick at frist .. then saw this post :)
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before some of you guys go off the deep end thinking the 38 is preforming odd let me explain a few things as i see them....
say you have a p38 vs a spit V ...
is the p38 going to outturn the spit ..... who know's.... can it?
maybe, it's very close.
with a light fuel loading and in the vertical the 38 turns on a dime with it's flaps extended .....
but keep in mind ....
if you nose down ... the 38 is very heavy ... it's has two powerful engines .... it's downward tendancey is going to make you speed up much faster than the spit you are fighting ....
reverseing such momentum can be harder for you, you'll feel this if you nose over full thottle then try to pull up hard ... gravity, and your mommentm and wieght make this hard to counter, flaps help .. but don't expect this turn to be as easy as a vertical turn for the 38....espesially if your hitting full thorttle ..
a flat sideways turn can be very tight ... but you have to lose your speed and get your flaps out in the 38 ... or your momentum will carry you into a stall...
if you push into the stall too hard the p38 will become less stable ... as you push harder you can fully stall it, the key is slowing down enough to do two things .... avoid the stall by haveing less forward mometum... and get your flaps out to 'lift' you into the turn ... and further slow you off your orginal path ....
cause things like to stay on the path they are heading .... and the more speed ... the greater this effect, looked at simply.
the 38 is hard to understand .... I think some of these feelings may come from misunderstanding the situation. The 38's FM feels fine to me.
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Originally posted by Manedew
the 38 is hard to understand .... I think some of these feelings may come from misunderstanding the situation. The 38's FM feels fine to me.
All sounds right to me, Mane, have you flown the beta 42 patch yet to see if there is any difference? I myself didn't have much negatism toward the 38 characteristics in last 10 or so patches.
I always understood to fly/fight with the 38 in the vertical, as I think Slap said in another thread, use the vertical and it's ability to hang on prop/ stall flight. not turn fight.