Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: ghostdancer on June 09, 2004, 10:41:37 AM
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Okay starting to make the change over to AH2 and learning the ins and outs of it and adjusting to how things are different.
One of the things really throwing me for a loop is the enemy range counters counting off by increments of 500 at distance, etc. I will say that I really dislike this and prefer the AH1 system but will leave it to just this one sentence.
Does anybody else have advice or tips and tricks for adjusting to this new system, judging closure and closure rates, etc. Just advice on trying to readjust my thinking or flying habits or how you have done so to make up for this change in the game.
Thanks.
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Originally posted by ghostdancer
increments of 500 at distance, etc.
Did they change this? :confused: It was increments of 200 before.
It takes a few hours to get used to it but your "internal" timing for moves should be the same... In a few days you will not even notice it. Just got to teach yourself to really look at the aircraft and not the icon. It will help with gunnery accuracy as well.
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Maybe if I have not been watching it as closely but seemed to me like it skipped from 1.5 to 1 last night. Will check it out tonight.
But I would really prefer say skipping by 100 yards all the way out or the old AH1 system. But enough of that.
Thanks for the note that you will adjust to it after a bit. My gunnery and hit rate has gone to hell because by the time I am opening up (tend to fire in closer) they are closer than I think and I have smaller window for my firing angle than I think I have.
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It is 500 from 1k out to 6k. Inside of 1k it is 200.
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yeah, that 500yd jump after 1k makes things difficult as the plane itself doesn't really change size.
I'd like to see 200 yds up to 2k out then 500+ after that.
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Ah .. thanks. Wish it was 100 at all ranges.
Guess I have to work on switching the way I think and interpret things while flying.
Either that or mount 40mm cannons on the plane so one hit is one kill. :)
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when you get closer watch the plane size itself. it gets real big closer it gets.
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I can and will get used to all of the changes in the new version and for the most part like them all. However this one single issues is the one that I can not stand. I am not sure if there is any chance of HTC changing this to keep people happy but if there is I certainly hope they do. Just my 2cents.
If not. I would realy like to hear the reasoning behind changing this to a much less user friendly counter. Please explain what good comes from it. Thanks, FBRaptor
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I personally like it now that I have gotten used to it.
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I personally liked the old system better. You don't get clues to distance such as shadows, etc at distance on our computers like you would in real life.
I can live with the new at close range, I hardly pay attention to the distance indicator when I am within guns range (read D400 and under).
Not all change is for the better. But it is just another change, we will have to live with it, adapt and move on.
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I like them as is,...
You will adapt and in a few weeks you will have forgotten all about them...
I have flown beta since the begginning. After a bit they are fine....
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O hell, just start pulling the trigger at 1000 out and call it a day:D
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Must admit to liking them............
There is an interesting point where 1K changes to 1000.........
and as I dont see 6K I assume that its
5.5K+
5.0K+
4.5K+
4.0K+
etc to
1.0K+
1000-
800-
600-
400-
200-
0
The fact that we see a 0 indicates that there is a plus factor so I would guess its about plus 50 / minus 150
Hence if my opponent is rock steady on my 12 running I will take a pot shot at 600 cos it is 650max yards and could be 500.........
Les than 400 I am not using the yard indicator
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I luv the new icon system.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
I luv the new icon system.
So then explain why please. What is better and what benifit do you find with the new system?
I believe some guys just saying that because they just agree with everything :cool: FBRaptor
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it lets mediocre pilots and those with lag survive longer.
:D
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Raptor its not better than AH1s icon system. Just more realistic. I think that was the trend the HTC was going to in AH2.
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Originally posted by FBRaptor
I believe some guys just saying that because they just agree with everything :cool: FBRaptor
People are not shy to disagree on this board.
I like it because it makes you look at the attitude of the other planes. In AH1, you can tell who is moving closer, parallel, or away from you just by reading the billboard. In AH2, you have to actually look at the plane to see what the other guy is doing. I use zoom alot more in AH2.
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One of the benefits to the new system is decreasing spray and pray shots. I think people are more reluctant to shoot the long range shots without knowing exactly how far it is. Just my opinion. I've noticed less of these shots in AHII.
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i've still managed pings at 800 and 1k with .50's but over 1k (not 1000) it's definitely more questionable as to the range.
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All fine and dandy if you fly a plane, but as a GV driver, it is much harder to calculate your lead. Is it 1.5K, 1.1K? There is a big difference in lead. I like the old system, or at least change it from 3K down.
LTARsqrl :(
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Any reason why GV and buff gunners should not need to adapt to the new stuff, while plane pilots do?
The very reason most of you people hate it for, is the very reason it is better.
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I too was initially umming and aaahing about this, but I can honestly say that since devoting my time to AHII and not I (haven't been in there for a month), this new countdown is great. I have found that my SA has gone up as one needs to constantly keep track of cons around you and perform a "mental map" of what is moving where and how fast, no longer able to rely on a snap look to find out what's going on but have to work at it. I sincerely hope it stays as is.
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new system is an improvement over old imo.
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We have played a couple of scenarios totally without Icons , and its much better that way than original AH1 system. W/O icons you could disengage from the fight and actually manage to bounce someone.
This AH2 system brings it closer to the "real" , where you dont have laser range finders to find out enemy energy state. Now you have to use your own brains more. Also this gives you a chance to bounce someone more easily, which is a needed improvement IMO.
Don't whine about losing lazerfinder, use SKILL to detect deflection and closure rates :D
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Unfortunately "skill" has little to do with detecting deflection and closure rates. Being able to clearly see the plane has the most to do with it and on a computer screen you are at a distinct disadvantage versus real life.
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not to mention not all monitors, vid cards or user defined resolutions are alike.
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Unfortunately "skill" has little to do with detecting deflection and closure rates. Being able to clearly see the plane has the most to do with it and on a computer screen you are at a distinct disadvantage versus real life.
Except you don't see things 'clearly' as you might think, in real life. A human's ability to measure distances and speed does not reach out as far as you think. Many people dig up the 'stereoscopic vision' argument for this, but stereoscopic vision is practically meaningless when the distance is further out than some 50 feet.
When an object is further than that, people judge distance in relation to background visual input - human sight selects a 'reference point' on the background, and judges how fast the target is moving by comparing its position and how it shifts compared to the background.
If an object is moving either directly away or into you, often it is very hard to judge relative distance - especially when the surrounding is empty and void like the skies.
Whatever movement an object does further out than 1k, the icon system tracks it with increments of 500yards which is plenty enough.
Whatever is within 1k, AH graphics is pretty much sufficient enough to give most of the visual input needed.
Admit it guys - you just want to go back to the days when we could instantly judge E-states at first glance without having to watch the attitude of the plane.
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Originally posted by Frost
Unfortunately "skill" has little to do with detecting deflection and closure rates. Being able to clearly see the plane has the most to do with it and on a computer screen you are at a distinct disadvantage versus real life.
Don’t assume your own inabilities apply to everyone else.
I have np judging whether a plane is closing at any range. I haven’t been "surprised" or “tricked” or anything of that.
So if others can and you can’t then there's no general issue of not being able to see "clearly".
The icons in AH2 are fine as they are. It has nothing to do with your "computer screen" because even in rl a con at 3000 yards isn’t but a dot. It size doesn’t change that much between 3000 and 2500 yards. At least in AH you have the 500 yard increment to tell which way he’s heading.
In AH the red icons preclude any type of real bounce or surprise attack unless you are completely asleep.
The issue here is just a matter of time until you adapt. Most of us who spent considerable time in the betas have no issues at with the icons.
It took time for most to adapt to the AH1 icons and it will take time for folks to adapt to the icons in AH2.
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I have been flying in the beta for several weeks now, and I find I don't even notice it as a problem any more. With practice, I can still determine their movement vectors quickly and accurately.
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The counters don't bother me 1 bit, earlier today I somehow inadvertently turned the icons off ( don't know how) then as I was flying I saw another plane coming at me, I was like he has no iconith, whats up here? I knew instantly when he banked and turned into me firing it was an enemy plane, I rolled inverted split-S low and behold there was 2 more objects below me, cept they looked like planes, they was close. Heck, they started firing, good thing they had tracers turned on, I eventually got my icons back on, was 2 spits and a 190, I got away but the res does allow for you to judge if a plane is turning , coming, going, etc...so we don't need no stinking icon counters! :D
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
The counters don't bother me 1 bit, earlier today I somehow inadvertently turned the icons off ( don't know how) then as I was flying I saw another plane coming at me, I was like he has no iconith, whats up here? I knew instantly when he banked and turned into me firing it was an enemy plane, I rolled inverted split-S low and behold there was 2 more objects below me, cept they looked like planes, they was close. Heck, they started firing, good thing they had tracers turned on, I eventually got my icons back on, was 2 spits and a 190, I got away but the res does allow for you to judge if a plane is turning , coming, going, etc...so we don't need no stinking icon counters! :D
Fun isnt it? :) Flying without NME icons that is. I have gone into H2H with several other players on ocassion and we fight without Icons. Its a blast. It takes a little getting used to. But a few hours of it. And your back in the groove.
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if(Yards < 1000)
{
DisplayDist = ((long)(Yards / 200.0f + 0.5f)) * 200;
sprintf(RangeString,"%.0lf",DisplayDist);
}
else
{
DisplayDist = ((long)(Yards / 500.0f + 0.5f)) * 500;
sprintf(RangeString,"%.1lfK",DisplayDist * 0.001);
}
Any questions?
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
if(Yards < 1000)
{
DisplayDist = ((long)(Yards / 200.0f + 0.5f)) * 200;
sprintf(RangeString,"%.0lf",DisplayDist);
}
else
{
DisplayDist = ((long)(Yards / 500.0f + 0.5f)) * 500;
sprintf(RangeString,"%.1lfK",DisplayDist * 0.001);
}
Any questions?
HiTech
Nope.
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Originally posted by Montezuma
People are not shy to disagree on this board.
I like it because it makes you look at the attitude of the other planes. In AH1, you can tell who is moving closer, parallel, or away from you just by reading the billboard. In AH2, you have to actually look at the plane to see what the other guy is doing. I use zoom alot more in AH2.
Exactly... Remove NME ICONS. Also remove ALL radar.
No...im not kidding. Most ppl hate flying without Radar because they know the NME has the distict advantage of having radar while they do not. But if All Dar was removed it would be an even playing field. This would encourage "Winging" like you have never seen before. And SA? Well......we would soon grow EYSE in the back of our heads like never before. Chk 6's wouldnt be near as much of an issue because we would learn to fly with a DWM (Designated Wing Man) instead of expecting a fellow countryman to drop everything he or she is doing and adopt us as "Temporary Wingman" as we pass through his or her air space and then git peeved off cause he/her didnt cover our smelly sixes. :rofl
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I'll try.......
5750 to 6000 as 6.0K
5250 to 5749 as 5.5K
4750 to 5249 as 5.0K
4250 to 4749 as 4.5K
3750 to 4249 as 4.0K
3250 to 3749 as 3.5K
2750 to 3249 as 3.0k
2250 to 2749 as 2.5K
1750 to 2249 as 2.0K
1250 to 1749 as 1.5K
1000 to 1249 as 1.0K
900 to 999 as 1000
700 to 899 as 800
500 to 699 as 600
300 to 499 as 400
100 to 299 as 200
0 to 99 as 0
?
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Early in the year for chits and giggles I flew in the CT for a couple of weeks without enemy icons. After the first couple of days there didn't seem to be a lot of difference except for having to close into within 400yds to identify the plane type and having some difficulty picking out enemy aircraft coming in below me. This was on a 17" monitor at 1024x768x32 resolution. I wouldn't recommend it for the MA but I think it would be good in something like what was announced as intended for TOD where the missions are designed to drop players into a fight - ditto radar on the clipboard map.
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Originally posted by Shane
it lets mediocre pilots and those with lag survive longer.
:D
Yup my survival rate is way up. Combined with floppy-fish system of forcing the overshoot I should be uber until someone realizes the error of their ways. :lol
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Originally posted by detch01
Early in the year for chits and giggles I flew in the CT for a couple of weeks without enemy icons. After the first couple of days there didn't seem to be a lot of difference except for having to close into within 400yds to identify the plane type and having some difficulty picking out enemy aircraft coming in below me. This was on a 17" monitor at 1024x768x32 resolution. I wouldn't recommend it for the MA but I think it would be good in something like what was announced as intended for TOD where the missions are designed to drop players into a fight - ditto radar on the clipboard map.
Why not in MA?
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Don’t assume your own inabilities apply to everyone else.
The inability to see details on a computer screen compared to the same situation in real life does apply to everyone. I have no problem with the current system in AHII. I was commenting to the fact that "skill" has less to do with it than the capabilities and resolution of the particular monitor you are playing on.
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I've found I have starting watching the PLANE instead of the range counter..
Just might be the whole idea behind it ??
Go figure.
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Originally posted by Frost
The inability to see details on a computer screen compared to the same situation in real life does apply to everyone. I have no problem with the current system in AHII. I was commenting to the fact that "skill" has less to do with it than the capabilities and resolution of the particular monitor you are playing on.
We have much more info on our computer screens then rl....
If some one can learn and or adapt to the current AH2 icons then they have developed the skill to do so, certainly more then what it takes to read a range counter.
As kweassa pointed out you don’t see things all that "clearly" in rl.
I can tell what a con is doing past icon range by watching him at 1024x768x32 resolution; which is about the standard nowadays.
Playing other games without any icon info what so ever (like FB/AEP) there’s a real difference in "skill" between the new guy and vet. Same with the icons in AH2. The more experience some one gains the more "skill" they have in recognizing what’s what.
As np said instead of watching the icon alone folks will start observing the plane itself.
This is a skill just like gunnery or anything else and not wholly dependent on screen res or monitor size.
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sorry gotta poke my head in here...
no i do not like the new icons. its HTC's game and they can do what they want. i will continue to play and im not going to whine to HTC about it.
why do you ask?
i have a 17" moniter that supports 1280x1024 but only at 55hz. hence i only play 1024 x 768 at the max 80hz.
with the graphic problems i have been having, reading icons is meaningless. i can see outlines of planes ok i guess, but telling which they are withough being in game under 200 is impossible. as it is i have to sit hunched forward about 8 inches from the screen to see the enemy planes at all above D800.
my eyesight is not great, and i can not afford better equipment. if you see any of my other posts i dont have a bad system, but it is not "top of the line".
if i have problems with seeing planes, imagine someone older than 31. also imagine somone who has never flown a fight sim before.
what does seeing the planes have to do with icons? well for those of you with deep pockets, and good eyesight you have a major advantage in the air. the old AH icons helped "even" that out. i could get as much information about the enemy plane as somone playing on a 21" with some insaine 2000 pixel plus resolution at 120hz.
like i said above, im not going to whine about it, just state my facts, and quick opinion on the situation. i will not respond to some jerk who says "go get a better moniter" or something, since they didnt bother to read my whole post.
and see you in the air (possibly, otherwise i will have gone blind from eyestrain LOL)
im bad with words sometimes, so i want to clairify my position... the original post after re reading it sounds rmabling, and i have no clue how to fix it LOL.
i just personally dont care for the new system, prefer the old, and have never liked the "CT" or "event" settings. i know things change, but after 3 some years flying i see this new system making me so much worse that is saddening to fly.
i know you will say "i'll adjust" or whatever, but i just dont see that happening with the inability to see if a plane is turning, level, comming at me, moving away, and anything other than a black blob im trying to get close enough to to shoot.
i'll keep trying, and just dont laugh at me when you repeatdly shoot me down.
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Originally posted by hitech
if(Yards < 1000)
{
DisplayDist = ((long)(Yards / 200.0f + 0.5f)) * 200;
sprintf(RangeString,"%.0lf",DisplayDist);
}
else
{
DisplayDist = ((long)(Yards / 500.0f + 0.5f)) * 500;
sprintf(RangeString,"%.1lfK",DisplayDist * 0.001);
}
Any questions?
HiTech
if(Yards < 1000)
{
DisplayDist = ((long)(Yards / 100.0f + 0.5f)) * 100;
sprintf(RangeString,"%.0lf",DisplayDist);
}
else
{
DisplayDist = ((long)(Yards / 250.0f + 0.5f)) * 250;
sprintf(RangeString,"%.1lfK",DisplayDist * 0.001);
}
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Thanks Frstrm, At last a post I can understand.
HiTech
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LOL .. you geeks! :)
All I was looking for was advice on how to change my thinking to adapt to the new range system. I find myself zeroing in on a plane and then checking the range and for a split second it confuses me and I hold my fire. Because the size of the plane indicates it closer than the range does.
Just looking for advice on how to change my way of thinking faster than I have been adjusting so far.
But hey that code would work too. ;)
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Originally posted by Tilt
500 to 699 as 600
300 to 499 as 400
So, when the icon changes from a 600 to a 400 the enemy went from 500 yards out to 499?
Only other possibility is that he just went from 600 to 599, or 401 to 400, and the size of the AC seems to indicate the first.
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Originally posted by hitech
Thanks Frstrm, At last a post I can understand.
HiTech
wow!! frstrm programmed HT with an internal spellcheck!!
:aok
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Originally posted by Edbert MOL
So, when the icon changes from a 600 to a 400 the enemy went from 500 yards out to 499?
Only other possibility is that he just went from 600 to 599, or 401 to 400, and the size of the AC seems to indicate the first.
I am not conversant with the language so could only attempt the math.........my ignorancestarts with the (long) function.
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You had it correct tilt.
And (long) isn't a function, it is called a type cast. All it ends up doing is droping anything behind the decimal. I.E. converts from floating point to integers in this cas a LONG i.e. 32 bit int.
HiTEch
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Originally posted by hitech
Thanks Frstrm, At last a post I can understand.
HiTech
ROFL!! I look at Code all day and I understand... You just made my day.