Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Hristo on June 06, 2001, 05:22:00 AM
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We could really use the best LW sticks in The Rumble. Spme of them have already applied. Sadly, LW exodus seems to hurt very much.
Only 9./JG54 has lost 6 pilots lately:
NathBDP
Jekyll
Hazed
RAM
Kirin
Glasses
There will be many more missing until next month, I'm afraid.
So, why does it seem only Luftwaffe leaves ? (I can already hear AKxyz, laz# and cheerleaders replying. Don't bother.)
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Luftwobbles leave because they dont like the way the game was desgined for them.
Seems like anything they dont like is a huge issue. Anything bad about the plane they have, is a mistake of HTC. They dont like the way the MA plays out, and how it is designed. They know how it played out from the begining, so I understand that they only played far enough believing HTC would change the game to their demands.
I dont like LW planes very much, mostly because I dont like their guns, and most my favorite planes turn out to be allied ones. Some people just dunt understand that maybe HTC aint wrong on the plane modelling; maybe those planes were more successful in real life because there were many diferent variables (fear of death, situational awareness, etc). Some of them do understand this, but they still complain about the strategic aspect of the game, acks, whatever, until they can take it no more, and leave.
I wonder why would anyone join a game wich has "flaws" that REALLY piss them off? I really woulnt subscribe to a game I am NOT going to enjoy.
Cya in WWIIO many of you LW guys. I already play that game. And if you are moving there in hopes of finding a better flight model, well, hehehe, get ready for disapointment.
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because they are the most whineing luft- weenies (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
cheers
DW6
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You might have a point there. OR... this could be a sneaky change of propoganda.
As it was once said (over and over and over)the LW were at a disadvantage because of lack of late war aircraft.
Now your saying now that they have most late war LW fighters (G10,Dora, 152, minus a freakin jet), its lack of skilled pilots?!
Hmmmm... someone might buy it.
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You can call it whining or complaining, but do not take the leaving of long time pilots like Glasses, Kirin, and Hazed lightly. For it effects the whole simulation. It may be transparent at first, but it will be felt sooner or later.
The one thing I have learned over the years is that the difference between complaining and expressing concern is ....who's doing it!
IF you agree to the issue then the person is expressing concern, if you don't agree then the person is complaining. The best way to avoid calling someone a whiner or complainer is to keep and open mind and try not to say anything stupid.
I am not good enough to determine if the flight models and gun issues are real for LW aircraft. But there are some hardcore LW sim pilots leaving, and this can only be detrimental to the simulation as a whole. As a community, AH must realize this or things are only bound to get worse.
If you are able, maybe it is something everyone should think about!
Have a nice day! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Salute!
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The reason they're leaving is that they're not so much pilots as role players.
They're not in love with flying the 109, they're in love with being Hartman. And they've been unable to recreate the Luftwaffe and click their heels in a flight sim. They're hoping they'll have more luck (and more hero worship) in a game where they think the virtual Stormtroopers will Sieg! as they fly overhead in honourable defence of the father land.
Q. If Galland had the choice of the 109 or the Spit, would he paint crosses on the Spit and fly it, or would he squeel like a leetle gurl to Udet that he wasn't going to fly the 109 'til it's guns shot like Hispano's?
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If you think the AH community is bound to get worse over a few guys quitting, I really am trying to find a reason why.
So why is that?
When they are all back in 3 weeks (or less probably), nothing will have changed except the MA will have cool new terrains. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Swager- If you continuously press an issue, using comparing plane x to plane y, lack of data, and "I think"s to convince us something is wrong, it is not voicing a concern or anything other than a complaint, squeak or a whine.
If you focus on one aspect of a game, you are inevitably going to grow tired of it and pray to all that is holy that the next simulation will be "the all encompassing totally kick bellybutton and gives the LW planes a fighting chance because of historical matchups", then when it turns out to not be. Your campaign starts up and everyone has to endure the hardships of being annoyed to death about something that will not be changed.
Happened in WB, and it's happening in here. Well it happened in WB for several YEARS until iEN threw up the allies vs axis arena.
So lets say they threw up the exact same setup here as in WB. Instead of "My Fw can't outzoom the N1K2 like it should" it will be "My Fw can't... against the allied planes"
You don't have to believe me, just point your browser to agw and enjoy!
This is a joke, you think we should care your squad mates are leaving? I was in a German squad in WB for a year, I quit WB because it was 2$/hr not because we didn't have a fighting chance.
Hell I flew the 109G6/R6 against SpitVs and had fun, you guys just expect to win every damn engagement.
Sorry that ain't happening.
-SW
ps: Hristo, mentioning my squad in your post makes me grow a big rubbery one... no maybe not... but I had you really turned on there for a minute didn't I? LimpWristed LeatherWearing LispWaffle.
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Wether this is a temporary situation or is a permanent one we do not know as of now.
In any case, I think is something to raise concern if you just think a bit. Of course, that unless you like to see an arena without LW planes.
Just my 0.02
Pepe
[This message has been edited by Pepe (edited 06-06-2001).]
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Seeker, IMO, you are in a galaxy far far away from the point.
And, about the german planes using hispanos, well, they had the hispano designs, captured factories and captured real guns since the beginning of the war. But for some reason, instead using that gun, they prefer to desing new ones like 108 or 103.
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Pepe, I fly LW planes quite a bit.
The difference between me and the "hardcore LispWaffles"?
I fly 'em, I don't whine about 'em.
-SW
ps: I'm a superior pilot in an inferior plane fighting against superior planes with inferior dweebs in them!!! (LispWaffle motto)
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There are three types of LW pilots in simulators:
- the initial facination types
- old hands
- those who never quite progressed from point 1 to 2.
The first type - almost everyone belonged to in one way or the other. The fascination with 190 is something normal as you start in the world if sims. You fly 109s and 190s, you play for the underdog, in time, most grow out of it. I've been there in my fighter duel days - 190 was one of my favorite planes.
Old hands - those who flew LW from the start and stayed LW - practiced their skills required to do well in that particular plane set ( 109/190 ) and with their skill and class earned the respect of all other simers - for those of WB background - i think JG14 would be a perfect example.
Those guys will fly 109s/190s with extreeme skill without a need to justify their failures on game's misgivings. Which brings us to the third type....
Those pilots of first type who never quite progressed to the old hands status. There are scored of them all around. For the most part they can be spotted easily cause they are extreemly vocal about their displasure with many things in whichever game you are.
Some of them are excellent pilots ( RAM ? Nath ) some of them at best average, but they lose in the same way - they are never shot down because they did something wrong - they were shut down because of something wrong/missing in the modeling of the aircraft in the game. They endlessly argue their point, flooding the boards. That essencially prevents them from ever becoming respected pilot ( other then in the eyes of those like himself ).
I was truly sad when Kirin left. He had a class. I hope he will be left. What does suprise me is that someone of his character surrounds himself with such a long list of whiners/complainers. Just look at some "and screw you guys" good-bye posts recently.... I'm very happy to see those guys go.
Hristo - if you're short of pilots - let me know and i'll fly a LW bird, that is if i'm considered good enough.
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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
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Merely speaking on the Rumble... don't worry Hristo, I'm sure we can figure something out.
Some of the old LW flyers did leave, which is unfortunate. I'm not sure however that this greatly impacts the the overall numbers in terms of ratio of LW to the rest. We know of 5 or 6 leaving. There might be something to be said for the fact that those 5 or 6 have been around a loooong time and are from the same squad.
I'm just not ready to chalk up this recent LW "exodus" as reflective of all AH LW flyers in general.
But it's too bad, because we really don't seem to have alot of LW squads here in AH. I have looked to fill out the numbers of LW flyers and it seems that most of them are either not in a squad or they belong to a mixed squad. They are harder to identify.
Still, we'll get a balance worked out by Rumble day. No worries.
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LW in AH has all sorts of pilots. Some of us whined more, some just flew more.
Personally, I don't see too many gunnery/FM problems in AH. Yes, I still fly H2H (vulchees can confirm it). 190 is a challenging ride, rolls awesome (not like WB) and is a nice plane overall. With no Tempest and C-Hog, it would dominate. 109 is very good, proper E fights can leave even Tempest hang in the air at the mercy of MK 108.
But some pilots who left never complained. It is them I worry about. To see Hazed and Kirin leave with almost no warning surprised me alot. And several others like Jekyll, Wilbus and Glasses. Whiners, you say ? Go look yourself in the mirror.
Please don't call them frustrated whiners. Generalizing that all people who fly LW are whiners and their absence is no loss is bad. Why didn't Allied pilots leave in mass numbers ?
To SeaWulfe:
Better start honing 109/190 skills more. If everything keeps up this way, you will have to fly enemy planes for AH Allied arena. And whine for the LW, of course.
Your and posts of your buddies remind me on tasteless Nath gravedance.
[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 06-06-2001).]
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Originally posted by Hristo:
So, why does it seem only Luftwaffe leaves ?
Like StSanta mentioned in another thread, he plays AH to create an illusion of being a WW2 fighter pilot. For him, this is a role game. And I'm sure he's not the only one. Some of the guys who've been flying online sims for a long time, have the same kind of an approach. I guess I fall in to this category as well.
If we look at historically minded AH players, be that Allied or Axis, we can see a few trends: They pick a historical squad, follow strict chain of command structures (although it might seem like utter chaos), fly their historical planes and usually try to get some realistic feeling into their flying. They want a hard and demanding environment where the pilots' flying and tactical skills make the difference - not the ability to game the game. These pilots are not usually big fans of main arena furballing, but have the most fun in historical missions and special events.
These pilots know that they must make some compromises when flying in the AH MA: there are no historical planesets - hogs and F6F's fight eachother while a finnish G-2 sweeps by chasing a Dora into the flak cloud of a CV. The terrains have no resemblance to the real world. Each plane is fitted with a radar and navigation system that is better than what an AWACS has in the real world. Aces High is a game and I'm sure these guys fully understand the need for these helps and aids for the casual gamer in MA. The Main Arena should be, and is, a place where even the less experienced player can quickly get up to speed and into the game.
Especially in Aces High, where the emphasis is clearly on late war planes, the historically minded DonQuijotes will grow tired of the constant La7s, Doras and P51Ds. A few years of the same old same old MA without any fundamental changes will finally get to some of these people. And so it seems.
Now, I'm not saying that a historical arena is the answer or that Aces High in its current form is bad. Currently, I'm enjoying Aces High more than ever. In some (most?) cases all this goes down to AH burnout. Four hours a day online will drive any man crazy, thats for sure. A week or two of AH-leave might be in order in that case. This applies to all pilots, not just Luftwobbles.
Now, why do only LW pilots leave? Well, if you think of LW and then look at Aces High, you will see that AH is quite far from Luftwffe nirvana. Especially with the current islands terrain, the game is heavily weighted towards the Pacific Theater. There are CV's, carrier planes and japanese planes that didn't play any part in the European Theater. Most of the ETO stuff is late war, with little or no early war planes. Like most of you can guess, the favourite era of most of the Luftwobbles is early war, from the Spanish Civil War to late 1942. This is when the planes were relatively slow and aircraft designs as the resulting tactical differences were pronounced. Up to that point the LW had the upper hand. In 1943 the Americans stepped into Europe and thats when the s#%¤ hit the fan on the western front, so to speak. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Eastern front is also a topic that most LW people find interesting, I think. For me, as a Finn, it is definately the most interesting part of WW2. And I'm happy to see HTC has put great effort into bringing the Ost Front to our screens. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) But here as well, the same rule applies as in the western european front: early war is more appealing to the LW pilot. In 1943 the tide changed as the russians put their huge resources into serious use.
I'm not sure how big a role WW2OL plays in all the LW pilots leaving. It is true that for some of the historically minded players, WW2OL offers a "better" playing ground from a LW point of view. But with a very limited planeset and emphasis on ground war, I'm not sure if the flight sim enthusiasts will find themselves at home there. In my opinion, Aces High has a lot more to offer in the air combat department as a whole. That said, I'm sure that the competition will definately be a good thing and hopefully drive HTC to develop the early war aspects of the game even more enthusiastically. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Best regards,
Camo
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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
Brewster into AH!
"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."
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Bravo Seeker! fediddleing nail on the head. Bravo for syaing it so well.
--Westy
p.s. go look at a topic called "109 vs Spit" in the WW2O "air combat" forumns and you can see how the "new" camp has been setup but with the same old booth and the same old rhetoric.
[This message has been edited by Westy MOL (edited 06-06-2001).]
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Didn't Galland ask for a squadron of Spitfires during the Battle of Britain?
Throws the assumption that LW planes were superior between '39 and '42 right out the window, now don't it?
-SW
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Originally posted by SeaWulfe:
Didn't Galland ask for a squadron of Spitfires during the Battle of Britain?
Throws the assumption that LW planes were superior between '39 and '42 right out the window, now don't it?
-SW
He said he was joking, only to annoy Goering. In his words, he preferred German planes.
Read more before quoting.
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Originally posted by Hristo:
[B
Read more before quoting.
[/B]
Tell me where I can read this then... kind of hard if I don't know where to find it.
-SW
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Camo I think you'll find one of the other online sims will have the opposite affect on flying-simmers rather than what most poeple thought.
Hmmm - if Galland wants 109s that fly like Spits I know just the place he can get some... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Originally posted by LLv34_Camouflage:
I'm not sure how big a role WW2OL plays in all the LW pilots leaving. It is true that for some of the historically minded players, WW2OL offers a "better" playing ground from a LW point of view. But with a very limited planeset and emphasis on ground war, I'm not sure if the flight sim enthusiasts will find themselves at home there. In my opinion, Aces High has a lot more to offer in the air combat department as a whole. That said, I'm sure that the competition will definately be a good thing and hopefully drive HTC to develop the early war aspects of the game even more enthusiastically. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Best regards,
Camo
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Personally, I think hazed, Glasses, and the others will likely be back.
Everything they said pointed more to burnout than anything else. I took off 2 months from AH after feeling the exact same way they did.
I don't see 5 or 6 pilots leaving being a big cause for concern. HTC isn't gonna and shouldn't rework the game to entice them to come back.....it don't work that way. The 5 or 6 who left are LW lovers? So what? This is an imperfect game; it has flaws, but is still the BEST out there, IMO.
LW guns don't do the damage they "think" they should? Get documentation to prove otherwise, or pick another ride. It's really that simple. Or, learn to live with it.
What I am seeing is some of the LW "icons", their "gods", have left and it can't be them, can it? Someone has to take the blame, and it can't be the pilots themselves.
Hristo, you've still got one of the best LW sticks I know flying with you: hblair more or less introduced me to AH, still awes me from time to time with what he can do in a 109. Lean on him, utilize his skills. He's a proven leader, as anyone who's taken on the Assassins can attest to. The pucker factor goes way up anytime I see a 109 and I know he is online now that I am with the 56th FG, 'cause I know I might be taking on one of, if not the best pilots in the game.
Nope, 5 or 6 LW pilots leaving is not a tragedy. If they love online flying as much as I think they do, they will be back, after they've taken a break for a while. The timing might be unfortunate for those who were counting on them, but tragic, or an omen? Not hardly.
[This message has been edited by eddiek (edited 06-06-2001).]
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Err... btw... there are still 5 or 6 left in StSanta's squad, none of which have signed up either.
I accosted StSanta in the MA tonight and told him that if he didn't force his squaddies into registering for this thing that I would have to withdraw my support in his upcoming bid to be Supreme Ruler of the World. I'm sure neither he nor I would really want that to happen. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
If those in StSanta's squad register, the LW will be only a few short as of the latest roster.
And I think I've lined up a bunch more LW... We'll see.
Btw... lets all not take to bashing the LW so bad... It's everyone's 30 bucks.
The Rumble website and registration:
http://modena.intergate.ca/personal/cwharton/sbm/rumble2001/index.html (http://modena.intergate.ca/personal/cwharton/sbm/rumble2001/index.html)
---edit----
Whoohoo two more Axis pilots signed up in the time it took me to write this.
[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 06-06-2001).]
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SeaWulfe:
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Tell me where I can read this then... kind of hard if I don't know where to find it.
-SW
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'...He (Goring) asked what were the requirements for our squadrons. Molders asked for a series of ME-109s with more powerful engines. The request was granted. "And you?" Goring turned to me. I did not hesitate long. "I should like an outfit of Spitfires for my squadron." After I had blurted this out, I received rather a shock. It was not really meant that way. Of course fundamentally I preferred our ME-109 to the Spitfire. But I was unbelievably vexed at the lack of understanding and the stubborness with which the command gave us orders we could not execute--or only incompletely--as a result of many shortcomings for which we were not to blame. Such brazen-faced impudence made even Goring speechless. He stamped off, growling as he went.'
-from The First and The Last by Adolf Galland
Great book!
anRky
(didn't sound like a joke to me, more like sarcasm)
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Originally posted by SeaWulfe:
Tell me where I can read this then... kind of hard if I don't know where to find it.
-SW
Simple, read his book. Inbetween your post maybe you can look it up at Amazon.
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Good post FDski, A bit negative but I think there is some truth there. Camo too. Good post bud.
Wasnt the squad in question flying knight? Havent the knights been in a serios bucket for several weeks at least?
It takes it out of ya guys. Really. The game ceases to be fun and account deletions are the logical result. Not after an hour, not after a day or a week. But after several weeks when you cant run from it or do much about it. It takes a serios toll on the fun factor in the game.Im not saying its all that happend here but obviosly the LW has competitive planes in AH now. Not world beaters but competative.
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I guess some just can't believe they could ever be shot down in their master-race-mobiles. After all they are the product of precise German engineering and the finest slave labor concentration camps could provide.
Yawn...whiners come, whiners go....whiners come back with different handles.
Wab
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There is no reason why there cannot be a HA in AH. Even if only populated by a dozen people, at least it would promote and satisfy those interested in role playing.
Y
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Thank you Anrky, that is what I was looking for.
Wingnut, being a LispWaffle has inherently made you ignorant of what I was asking. I didn't know where I could find it, so do not give me a smart bellybutton answer.
-SW
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I thought Galland asked for Spit's becuase Goreing wanted his Fighter Pilots to fly "close air support" for the bombers. Galland knew that the 109 was not meant for close air support. They need to be up above with a good alt advantage, that as we all know is desperatly needed by the 109 to survive a fight with Spit's. He was being a smart bellybutton to Goreing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) He luv'd the 109 IMO.
LLB OUT!!!!!!!!!!!
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The good news is now that wwiionline is public you may get a lot back, and soon.
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Originally posted by AKWabbit:
Yawn...whiners come, whiners go....whiners come back with different handles.
Wab
Heh heh.....great quote Wabbit. Hope you dont mind if I use it. :)
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Animal, I feel sorry for you how wrong you really are, I won't go in on it here since it would take too long.
As for Galland and his statement, it was only to piss Goering off, he's been intervued about it after the war and there he said he Much prefered the faster 109.
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Hristo, it has more to do with the particular personality type who is drawn to the "dark side" than it has to do with the game itself or the rest of the community.
(http://www.raf303.org/308/308banner.gif)
[ 06-06-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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Hristo, for every player that leaves, I meet 2 or 3 new ones online...and very good sticks I might add. Its just that YOU remember these names, and haven't taken the time to meet the new 'hot' sticks.
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Originally posted by Seeker:
The reason they're leaving is that they're not so much pilots as role players.
They're not in love with flying the 109, they're in love with being Hartman. And they've been unable to recreate the Luftwaffe and click their heels in a flight sim. They're hoping they'll have more luck (and more hero worship) in a game where they think the virtual Stormtroopers will Sieg! as they fly overhead in honourable defence of the father land.
seeker you have no idea do you?
True i like a role play ever since the days when i played D&D as a kid.
the suedo german crap we all talk is in fun mate! I neither like,worship,agree with or follow any nazi/LW pilot or leader.I fly a game, play the role of the german pilot with the silly talk of heel clicking and using their strange terms because its fun.This doesnt mean im a Nazi and im deeply offended you try to make out i worship the Germans from WW2.Im britsh mate,my family lost members to the damn krauts.This doesnt mean i hate them as a race.Im aware there were germans against hitler.Theres good and bad in ALL races.Time to grow up and realise it.
I read about the Nazis, and im fascinated by WW2 but im fascinated by the napoleonic wars,the vietnam conflict and many other great battles.I have always 'enjoyed' PLAYING the villain in a role play for the fun of it.
Id be the black knight,the stormtroopers from starwars, the indian in the Wild west games.Its simple to fathom the reason.
History was one way and in a game id like to change the outcome.Playing a game with all the best equiptment and knowing that you 'should' win cause 'they' did in RL is boring if you ask me.I seek a challenge and i seek the fun of trying to change things.
As for my complaints on the LW guns its not through wanting an advantage over the allied guns, its because i was constantly frustrated by them.This is probably more to do with knowing if i flew and used hispanos things would be easier or just as a part of the overall frustration with different aspects of a game i truelly loved.
AS for this rediculous notion that in someway because i fly LW stuff i crave seigs from troops and want respect etc? are you diddlying mad mate?
you are guilty of the worst of human traits.You are doing what all rascists do which is generalising/stereo typing whole races or types of people.you have a closed mind and i find that pathetic.
I fly LW planes because i like them.I dont like the Nazi party,I dont complain so i can get an advantage,I do NOT long for the golden era of the war although sure it would be fun.I do want to try the Me262 but i dont want to fly it endlessly.I enjoy the game and i dont 'EXPECT' to win every engagement.
BUT just as a warp will piss me off so does any aspect i suspect is wrong or behaving incorrectly.I am perfectly within my rights to question it or suggest things i may enjoy more.AS ARE YOU.
Pongo: i think you may be right about the knits getting bashed for so long driving me away from AH.I hadnt thought of it but i think you hit the nail there.I did all those fantastic BIG missions because i was sick of just dieing everywhere.I shouted at the knits for ages and finally drove them into my missions by annoying them :D.
It served to remind me of what id really like to do in AH.Fly in huge formations and fight enemies that are clever and you need to get better to win.in short 'challenge' and a good looking game.
ok ive rambled enough, just get pissed at these .02c morons thinking they know it all.
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They are obviously scared of the whuppin' they were about to receive.
Seriously, most of these people have been disatisfied with AH to one degree or another for awhile now. Is it really any surprise that they have left on the eve of the launch of another game that promises some of what they have been begging for here?
They'll leave, check out WWII OL, then figure out which game floats their boat.
Gordo
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You float my boat Gordo!
I mean..... (http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/tongue/crazy1.gif)
-SW
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Thanks for the good words eddiek, but you're going to blow you're cover. I'llsoon have to call you back from your clandestine excursions.
As for the RUMBLE 2001. We were considering flying allied, til Nash contacted us that he really needed some axis pilots. So, we've decided we're gonna sign up and kick the snot out of the allied oppurtunists who know nothing but gang bang. We're gonna have to average 2 kills per pilot, but hey, no big whoop. I've sent $50 to drex's wife to spike his chili with ex-lax.
Oh yeah baby, the ownage will come to fruition. :)
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Lol, not only is Hazed geeking out..he won't leave.
Dont get me wrong, please vent and rant more, its decent comedy... if not mindless.
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Luftwaffe the underdog?
Not in Spain, not in Holland, not in Belgium, not in France (how can anybody be underdog to the French?), not in Czek-of.how do you spell it, not in Poland, not in Russia....... the list goes on and it's laughable.
They weren't the undergog over the Chanel either, they were just second rate, as they were over Stalingrad, Gibralter, Malta and the skies of North Africa (with a C, chaps, they lost, after all).
There was a battle of Britain, and, they lost it. A battle of Malta, and, they lost it. They lost the Battle of the Reich too, and yet you people seem some how to think Allied iron should fall like wheat to the cutting scythes of your butcherbirds....
Face it, the only time the Luftwaffe ever shone was up against Eastern European biplanes and when it was used as an artillery arm for the Wheremacht.
Wimper no.2: I like LW planes...
Pish, there weren't any. the LW never made a plane. I can well undertand how one could fall for the minimalist philosphy of Messerscmidt and become an afficianado the way others love the Spit. I can recognise the innovation of the Wulf engine mangement system, in the way I can respect the aims of the Airacobra general layout. Niether one worked, though, did it? So there's no "Luftwaffe" plane to love. There were shiny boots and slaves, tho', one could miss that, I suppose.
Face it. They flew second rate stuff so they lost.
Or, the machines were first class, and the pilots fumbling incompatents; and _that's_ why they lost.
Have it any way you want. YOU explain why "the finest, flying the finest" ended up dead, captured or wearing make up in Argentina.
Oh of course, The low class, allied oppertunists swamped the air with such numbers of secondrate *mass produced* (oh! the horror!) hispano carriers that no true aeronautical aristocrat had a chance.
Go tell it to fighter command.....
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I don't get involved in the politics of LuftWaffe crap as I said before:
German planes are German planes
American planes are American planes
British planes are British planes
Japanese planes are Japanese planes
Italian Planes are Italian planes
Russian planes are Russian planes
BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY!!!!
GAY PLANES ARE N1K2s!!!!! (http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/mfinger/thefinger_red.gif)
-SW
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Originally posted by Hristo:
But some pilots who left never complained. It is them I worry about. To see Hazed and Kirin leave with almost no warning surprised me alot. And several others like Jekyll, Wilbus and Glasses.
I yet have to see a day when I meet Glasses online and he won't whine about something.
mx22
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While I was "in", 3 of my squadron mates died in various aircraft accidents. It was sad and depressing but the squadron mission went on without pause.
People come, people go. The game, AH, goes on for an undetermined length of time. No big insight there, is there?
Some people have left AH. That's a bit sad, but no one died here.
But why on earth should we expect them to keep playing and paying for something they obviously are not enjoying?
I wish all of these folks all the very best in finding a new game that they truly enjoy.
Is it not best for the enjoyment of all if players play the game they like to play and let others make the same decision in peace?
This is just the natural course of events.
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Wow.. lotta traffic here.. and some good points.
Item: LW aircraft in this sim, when faced with their historical adversaries are neither feeble nor pushovers. Flown by skilled pilots they remain very deadly, and should not be taken lightly.. particularly if that LW A/C is sittin on top of you.
Skilled LW pilots are not all that thin in numbers in AH either. The loss of 4 or 5 good LW sticks does not mean the end of the LW as an adversary force. Any assumptions to that end would be foolish indeed for the Allies.
Possibly the worst thing that has happened, and is possibly affecting the registration of LW pilots for the 2001 Rumble is my vehement and untenable behavior at the conclusion of last years Rumble.
Gents; I behaved like an ass, mucked up the boards and generally pursued a piss-poor situation till it became a very bad memory for some.. and these folks don't wanna repeat.
Neither do I. This time thru; I'd like to make amends. Yes; I'd still love Hristo's head on my cowl; and hopefully this time I'll get it.. but what I'd like more than that is to see LW and Allied A/C in a hot reffed fight, straight up, and where the chips fall is where we're gonna let 'em lie this time.
This is not intended to be an opportunity to repeat last years mistakes.. it's an opportunity to see if indeed, given un un-historical parity of numbers and parity of skill would the LW triumph against the big bad allied ponies and Lightnings and Jugs and such.
Now.. Luftwobbles.. here's yer chance. Even numbers.. the best 190's and 109's ever built vs the allies... whatcha gonna do?
<S!>
Hang
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I remember the first rumble! The backlash after it made me want to avoid special events! :rolleyes:If this one is scheduled to be different and fun,(and I'm not workin? ;) ) I'm in! Let's switch sides after first round and fight it again?
I fly Luftwaffe planes, mostly! And was a member of JG 2 (AH) for awhile. I never heard one Nazi statement on there bbs or while flying with them. They were fun people and very great pilots. You would be surprised to know some of the people that were once in that squad and now are highly respected in allied squads? All squads have whiners! I still have to squelch channel one or individual pilots when I hear the tears flowing!
Without competent and scary "badguys" this sim would suck bigtime. I believe the German plane set is great! And very well modeled. I've been in this sim since the first .33 open beta release. (1st as Sifter then BERSERKR). It's still on my HD. "Wickedest" realism when trying to get 109 in the air. They toned down the takeoffs just as I was getting good at getting the 109 up from full throttle starts.
I've tested the Luftwaffe(AH) planes against historical and anecdotal data of tests and comparisons of there real world counterparts. The flight model is very close when comparing AH planes against eachother. I love the allied planes, but, love the feeling of being the bad guy more.The best allied pilot is the guy who flies the Luft planes alot and knows what they are capable of. Granted, there is a need to readjust to the differences. :)
Don't forget the old adage "A mig/or 109 at your six is better than no ME 109/mig at all!" Without historical enemies in the air this sim becomes nothing more than "Topgun". You want the real enemies! I had someone questioning why I was flying allied planes the other day? Hey! It was Memorial Day? When its for real? I fight for the RED/WHITE/BlUE! Thank you!
Howdy Hangtime! :D Berserkr
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Give the page time to load. http://www.ropescourse.org/flying.htm (http://www.ropescourse.org/flying.htm)
You will hear Gallands voice talking about that quote and it was just to piss off Goering. As others have already said he loved the 109 and would take it over a spit any day. It is all in his book "The first and the Last".
:)
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Howdy Bersrker!! Good ta see yah... and man I had a blast in some of those fights with you in the MA! I'll not soon forget the first time I ran into you and Udie. LOL. Great fights. Hope to see yah up.. no matter what yah fly. :)
<S!> Immortals!
Hang
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Because I'm an old fart and a citizen of the US, it has been very difficult for me to fly LW planes.
Nonetheless, I've managed to get past that. The LW planes are a most enjoyable ride, especially the G-series. The FW190 d9 is my favorite ride for de-acking fields.
I thought I was one of the few that had let politics get in the way of fun.
In reading Hristo's bitter post, it's clear I'm not the only guy that had trouble getting past politics.
I lament all of the good sticks that have left us, although I suspect they left because of boredom rather than anger/flight models & etc.
Nothing beats sneaking up on a great stick and blowing his bellybutton up before he can react. Their channel 1 reaction is even more fun. Inevitably, the good sticks have egos to match their skills [not true for Drex/RWY/Torque and a few others.]
I suspect LW politics simply consists of loyalty to the 109/190 line of planes. I don't think it has anything to do with geographic politics.
I strongly believe the arena consists of two groups: 1) airplane fanatics and 2) guys who like to blow toejam up. It's natural for an airplane fanatic to become upset if they suspect their favorite ride is porked in some way. If they're adults, they'll get past that and have fun; if not, they'll leave, although many have left for different, valid reasons.
Speaking of porked planes :), I believe the best example of a porked plane was the pre-1.03 version of the p51-d. Remember the turning radius (even at alt) if you wanted to retain any semblance of energy? Remember how fragile the wings were? The wings are still fragile ...
I would gladly fly on the LW if numbers become an issue. Hell, AH is about fun, not airplane politics. :)
AKcurly
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Pongo might be right.
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Ho ho ho and a bottle of rum, isn't this fun?
We see these expert on human psychology clearly state and define what makes us tick.
Considering their expertise, I'm willing to go out on a limb and call it extreme prejudice combined with a good spoon of labelling.
I love 109's, I love 190s. I fly 'em because they're cooler than anything else in the sky.
The G10, the F8 and the A5/A8 are my preferred planes.
I prefer fighting American or British iron, something my kill/death history will show.
It's my hope that now that the LW "loudmouths" speak silently, so will the "allied" loudmouths.
'nuff said.
:)
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Originally posted by Seeker:
[<snipped>
Have it any way you want. YOU explain why "the finest, flying the finest" ended up dead, captured or wearing make up in Argentina.
Dammit Basil! I TOLD you not to mention the war! Next thing you know you'll be spouting off about the Malvinas...
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by AKcurly:
I suspect LW politics simply consists of loyalty to the 109/190 line of planes. I don't think it has anything to do with geographic politics.
Agree 100%, and also about the "plane fanatics".
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I like all planes, all of em..
The first AH plane I really latched onto was the N1K, back in the Beta days.
It turned well and had nasty guns.
I eventually got a little bored with it and then drove the Spit-IX for several Tours.
Next, I got tired of not being able to run away when needed, so I got into the Typhoon for a few months.
Then I joined the Wonder-Hog crowd (lowers his head in shame).
I had always been looking for a good buff interceptor, one that would climb ( I love buff hunting :) ). The 109 is an obvious choice, but I could never get the hang of it. Never flew it more than a few times a tour, and always sucked in it. I have always had a lot of respect for folks who flew it well, because I couldn't. I considered it an inferior plane.
A few months ago I forced myself to learn to fly the 109, first the G-2, now I fly the F-4. It has become my main ride, even for attack. I fly it because it is challenging and fun. You earn your kills in the 109F-4. No running, no spray-n-pray, no turning on a dime, and sometimes... no escape.
I know that I will get bored with the 109 as well, and then move on to something else (I'm really liking the Il-II)
In the mean-time, I am not a Luftwobble,
I just like planes, all of em.
eskimo
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Originally posted by Yeager:
There is no reason why there cannot be a HA in AH. Even if only populated by a dozen people, at least it would promote and satisfy those interested in role playing.
Y
Yesterday HT was online and if I recall it right, someone asked about another arena and HT replied something like:
"When there's a 400 ppl peak per day at MA, then we could consider it.."
..or something like that.
I was middle of the "situation", so I couldn't follow ch1 so closely.
Anyone, any clarifications ?
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Face it, the only time the Luftwaffe ever shone was up against Eastern European biplanes and when it was used as an artillery arm for the Wheremacht.
Actually, they did more then what should have been required by them, and they did great in all theaters. They fougth a 3 front war, allmost no country can win such a war, specially not against US and Rushia at the same time. The High command, Goering and Hitler, made the role of the fighter pilots nearly impossible, as soon as they lost one single battle Goering and Hitler imediatly reorganized the whole Luftwaffe to use new tacics, they lost BoB because the 109's had too short legs and they were tied to the Bombers, much like the Allied planes in 1943 were. The allies too, when their were tied to the slow heavy bombers, suffered great losses.
Face it. They flew second rate stuff so they lost.
Second rate stuff? Hardly
The 109, was outdated by 1942, before that it was one of the best fighters of all time.
In May 1941 the 190 entered serbice, it gave the RAF HUGE troubles and the superiority of the 190 over the Spit V was huge, not untill the summer of 1942, when RAF recived the Spit IX could they fight the 190 on equal terms, and even then, the 190 (A4 and A5) was better in both climb, roll, zoom and speed (I have the RAF WW2 documents).
The 190 was the first multi-roll airplane of the war, and it was amongst the best, if not The best fighter-bomber of the war.
In 1944, when the D mustang entered service (44 right? not 43?) the 190 A found it self in a tight spot above 20 000Ft. The 190 D9, aka Long Nosed 190, was as good, and in some aspects better then the P51D and the quality was once again up-to-date.
Have it any way you want. YOU explain why "the finest, flying the finest" ended up dead, captured or wearing make up in Argentina.
What led to the disaster (for Hitler, good thing for the rest of the world) was his, and his high commanders (a few of them) stupidity, hunger for power and and inability to see what was needed.
They lost the BoB because:
1. Short legs of the 109 made it impossible to escort bombers far.
2. Goerings order to the Fighters to stay close and slow with the bombers, this took away the great advantage of the 109, wich was speed and E performance. The 109's were forced to Turnfight the Spitfires, and we all know the spit turns better.
3. They stopped bombing the RAF airfields and thus gave GB the power to come back. They started bombing London (this was terror bombing, just like the Allies did in 1943 and onwards, only they did it in a much greater extent)
4. They didn't attack GB rigth after France was beaten, they stopped and let GB recover some.
They lost the war because:
1.They didn't win BoB (because of stupid tactics) and thus gave the Western allies a great place to bomb Germany from.
2. They attacked Rushia, wich MIGHT have worked if:
A. They had waited till they had taken GB, or atleast had the RAF under controll.
B. Most important, attacked Rushia 2 weeks earlier and prevented the winter War with an enemy, who's men and machines have all been trained (the few of them who were trained) and designed for Sub-Zero temperatures.
C. Not dragged USA into the Warm no country can win over Rushia and USA at the same time, both those countries have a HUGE amount of resources.
The main reason they lost the war was because, in simple words, they got gangbanged.
[ 06-07-2001: Message edited by: Wilbus ]
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This thing is still going to happen or what?
(http://community.theunderdogs.org/smiley/happy/pint.gif)
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The LW actually lost on K/D against Polish biplanes.
What was the most common statement in late '45? "Ve are not Nazi's, Ve are Sviss."
lazs
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Guys, this conversation is becoming nutty :)
Here are facts that I think are undisputed by all:
1) A great pilot in a mediocre plane will beat a mediocre pilot in a great plane, everytime.
2) Bob was lost by the jerries because the political leadership got involved in making military decisions. The Brits were outnumbered and for the most part, out-planed. The Brit's grit and the German political leadership determined the outcome of Bob.
3) While FDR desperately wanted in the European war, he couldn't do it! Congress would not permit it. By and large, both republicans and democrats wanted no part of a European war. I still don't understand why Germany declared war on the US 6 or 7 days after Japan bombed Pearl Habor. I imagine war between the US and Germany was inevitable, but Germany could have delayed it.
All of us, let's remember, the sticks win the fight, not the airplane. Nath in a 202 will whip my arse everytime in any plane of my choice.
All of the planes in Aces High are great rides -- each has something special to offer. Sheet, let's get ready to rumble! :)
Akcurly
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Oh geezus, now we are going to anaylyze and second guess as to why the Third Reich lost the war.
I think we can all agree the LuftWaffe was only a limb of the entire body responsible for losing the war, nevertheless their loss rate was very high.
"They lost because they got gangbanged"... maybe they shouldn't of attacked two fronts at one time???
Anyways, they lost and I'm damn glad they lost.
I'd hate to think what it would be like to live in Nazi America.
-SW
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"I'd hate to think what it would be like to live in Nazi America."
?? It's easy.
We'd be playing a state sponsored game called "Ariens High!" on Grundig computers because the VonHiTechWerks lost it's "labor pool" with which to force into developing a version to work on the Blaupunkt O.S. So it runs very well on the KurtTank2001 operating system... *only*
All of the players who fly the soft willed, yellow bellied Imperialist planes like the P-40B, P-39D and P-38DA planes (the Axis won the war so the later models are either not included or were never developed) complain how bad the .30 guns are in comparison to the much superios and vaunted MG151's.
Same players whine about how they wish VonHiTechWerks would model the XP-47 and YP-51's because someone where out in New Zealand has actually seen at a friends house in the unoccupied zone the one copy of an original 50 year old document showing how they actually were in combat when they were rolled out of the Dayton Ohio hangars.
Rumours have it the P-38K flew cap for those flights and that even once Skunkworks Johnson himself as able to elude an attacking of flight of GO-229's attacking the base by climbing straight up at the moon.
:D
-Westy
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summer of 1942, when RAF recived the Spit IX could they fight the 190 on equal terms, and even then, the 190 (A4 and A5) was better in both climb, roll, zoom and speed (I have the RAF WW2 documents).
Then you'll note in those documents that the Spitfire was operating at part throttle. Not WEP and not even full military power. And just a few months later the Merlin 66 -engined LF Spitfires came into service, which left the 190 with no advantage except roll at high speeds.
The 190 was the first multi-roll airplane of the war, and it was amongst the best, if not The best fighter-bomber of the war.
P-39s and P-40s were being used as fighter bombers at about the same time as 190s began taking on such duties. And the P-38, P-47, P-51, F4U, F6F, and Typhoon we are superior to the 190 in this role. They could all carry about twice as much ordnance as a 190.
Germans lost the air war because they met better men in better equipment.
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I belive, that somewhere in my Post, I stated that they attacked 3 fronts at the same time and this was a major reason they lost.
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I stated that they attacked 3 fronts at the same time and this was a major reason they lost.
Excuses!!! :D
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The planes were being flown on the same throttle, they compared them to fínd out an advantage, they won't fly one plane at 80% throttle and one at 100% and say "...yes but our plane only flew at 80% wich makes it better."
190G's could take up to 3900 (slighly more) bomb load, it was amongst teh fastest Fighter-bombers of the war.
What makes a fighter bomber good is not only the ability to drop big loads of bombs, it's how fast it is and how fast it can come to the front, how much punishment it can take etc.
Do you have my documents too since you know what's in them?
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Germans lost the air war because they met better men in better equipment.
Geez, the Germans were almost like the AH Lw's, where BITTER men quit because they met men with BIGGER equipment.
Yikes!
[ 06-07-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]
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LOL
extreme odds against had nothing to do with it...
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Cut it out Creamo!
I hate having to clean the beer off this monitor...and besides the beer burns your nose when it hoses through there! (Waste of good beer too!)
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I flew LW mainly and I have AH after 3 months. My last flying day was May 30th. Not a knock but it was very hard flying for the knights and getting our butts kicked day in and day out. Not going to whine aboutt he planes, just that it is sad when everyone left at the same time, most say well in three weeks they will be back. Chances are no they won't, most were fed up with AH, and the direction it was going. Have fun, as you can find us all in WW2online.
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Originally posted by Sachs:
Have fun, as you can find us all in WW2online.
Excuse me....
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HA
(http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/laughing/yelrotflmao.gif) (http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/laughing/lol2.gif)
HAHAHAHA!!!!!! (http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/laughing/laugh2.gif) (http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/laughing/astrosmiley2.gif) (http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/laughing/1grlaugh2.gif) (http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/laughing/1orglaugh.gif)
-SW
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Wilbus here is the page of the AFDU report that is significant: http://www.geocities.com/spades53.geo/pro_190_survey_c_1.jpg (http://www.geocities.com/spades53.geo/pro_190_survey_c_1.jpg)
1.42 ata is the "Emergency and Takeoff" rating in German documents - aka WEP. But the Merlin 61 was only running +12, while WEP was +15. Go fly the AH Spit IX at +12 to get an idea of the performance difference. No wonder they found the 190 superior. It looks to me that they were inflating the capability of the enemy in order to get more priority for improved fighters.
3900 lb bombload on a 190? An already overweight and underpowered plane, carrying a bombload half of its empty weight. I think you can guess what the performance would be like with that bombload. :)
Hell - Il-10 could out run and out turn Fw 190G with a bombload. It was a dog.
The beauty of the superior Allied designs was that they could carry the same or greater ordnance load without suffering a 50% increase in power-loading and wing-loading.
What makes a fighter bomber good is not only the ability to drop big loads of bombs, it's how fast it is and how fast it can come to the front, how much punishment it can take etc
Right, and the P-38, P-47, Typhoon, F4U, F6F, are just as fast or faster than the 190, have greater range, and are more sturdily built planes. 190 looks like a toy by comparison if you have seen them together.
It's a neat plane, but to compare it to planes like the F4U or P-47 as a multirole aircraft is not fair. The little twittler is outclassed. :)
[ 06-07-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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Geezus Funked, step away from the draftin table! A bit to much figurin'.
BTW, being that you damn near live in a town named after a tbathtub fart "Beloit" Wisconsin, question.?
You ever see "Pistole PETE" in Rockford? Not to destroy a thread, but it pales in comparison if i can get you to drink 4 tap beer pitchers and see this local Rockford MONSTER on the electric Geetar!
If you have a life, you know who I am talking about. If not, Ill fwd the webpage. This guy is amazing.
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[edited: I'm being mean and hurting feelings again]
[ 06-07-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]
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I really would like if we could squelch some posters in here...
Adult guys acting like bunch of kiddies. Lets see if we could get this topic locked in next 5 posts ?
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Creamo: Nope I never seen him. When I lived in Rockford I spent as much time as possible in places other than Rockford. :)
PS Have you ever seen the Northolt Wing mascot, Mickey the Monkey? (http://www.raf303.org/funked/spankthemonkey.gif)
He is a monster but he plays a different instrument.
[ 06-07-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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I simply find it funny... maybe bordering on hilarious, that the same guys promoting "ultra-realism" and "super hard FMs" (1.03FM) left AH for WW2Ol which, from reports I've read, is still a very tame FM in comparison to WB and AH.
Oh well, there's always room for double-standards.
-SW
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Originally posted by SWulfe:
Excuse me....
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HA
(http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/laughing/yelrotflmao.gif) (http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/laughing/lol2.gif)
HAHAHAHA!!!!!! (http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/laughing/laugh2.gif) (http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/laughing/astrosmiley2.gif) (http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/laughing/1grlaugh2.gif) (http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/laughing/1orglaugh.gif)
-SW
Man, I couldn't help but start chuckling when I saw this. You and your lil buddies crack me up.
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SW what makes you think its just the planes people will play WW2ol for? I will try it when it eventually comes out in the UK so i didnt leave AH for WW2ol.I left because it was no longer providing the fun.I play halflife mod Day of defeat which is a WW2 mod and its a great game but incredibly unrealistic.BUT it is ballanced well and Ive never felt the need to question its models.
I think the appeal of WW2ol is the fact that i will be able to run around as a soldier or drive tanks or fly planes and from what ive read there is a fantastic strategic or should i say tactical game in there too.
FM not as realistic as AH? probably(certainly :D) not but i feel i may enjoy the game as a whole more.Have you seen operation flashpoint? an american/russian battle simulator? I have played it and it is the future of war sims if you ask me.The games we play, FPS,Flight sims,Tank games etc will all mesh into a whole new form of games.And WW2ol offers (or is attempting to ) this kind of thing for mass multiplaying.
Ok the FM is slightly porked but it will attract more 'gamers' than AH.But they will be forced to play the game as it is intended in a realistic 'looking' enviroment.From what ive read there is going to be promotions etc so to use the good stuff we will have to play it properly and develop skill in the game.
AH has for the last 2 years almost offered me an excellent FM to learn about ACM and the planes and has thrown in a little bit of ground warfare and a simple strategic game.I, unfortunately for me, have got a little bored of it.I miss the flying true enough but it was the fun that went out of it that was the problem.This was why i urged HTC to add more elements to the game.
I think hes (sacs)is right that he'll see a lot of us in WW2ol.
[ 06-07-2001: Message edited by: hazed- ]
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Not you hazed, you never mentioned that you were leaving for a more "realistic" experience... but some others......... :eek:
-SW
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Oh now i see :D THOSE GUYS! :rolleyes:
you mean the 'give me a real engine start sequence' mob! :D
er pressing 'e' is all i ever need until i decide to go fly a real plane. ;)
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I was referring to THOSE guys that kept PUSHING the theory that the 1.03FM was more realistic becuase it was harder.
Sorry, all the engine management in the world can't make up for a Spitfire that flies like a Tie Fighter.
"endless loops" "planes don't burn E" "109E4 turning inside of Spitfire Mk1"
I said before, 109E4 with speed will turn inside a Spit Mk1 initially, but once that speed is gone... that 109 better be well on it's way to extending or climbing away from that SpitMk1....
-SW
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Is there a better WW2 plane than Me 262 ?
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Originally posted by Sachs:
. Have fun, as you can find us all in WW2online.
he ha he ha
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha
Quick, someone break my fall!
<thud>
Bahahahahahaahahahaahahahahaa hah
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FM in AH is better then in WW2 online, Ground War in WW2OL is FAR more realistic and all ground veichles modells are way better.
Dammage modell is more accurate and more advanced, the sort of dammage modell AH and WB uses is getting slightly old.
I didn't leav AH for WW2OL, my computer isn't good enough and I don't really feel like paying for a sim where I can't fly with a very good FM.
AH has got its porked planes when it comes to E retation but it's overall very good.
I left for the same reason as Hazed did, I just didn't enjoy it anymore, never ending furrballing and an unrealistic setup.
BTW, a multiroll plane is morw then drop bombs and fly as a fighter, it includes recorgnisance, survalience etc :)
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All you "hold my hand I'm leaving" types _are_ in denial, arn't you?
"I want more strategy"..no you don't, that's a commander's job, not a pilots.
"I want more tactics"...has nothing to do with roll rate/gun modeling
"It may (WWIIonline) have a porked FM, but it has more realism"...now we're getting there, arn't we?
Come on, admit it, you luftwhiners aren't interested in FM's, gun modelling or whatever. You're interested in world dominaition and can't quite figure out why you can't do it. Must be the undermodeled roll rate, right?
Face it, you guys just can't cut a flight sim, your attention spans are too short to set up a proper bounce (whine: but they have radar, Kapitan!), you're incapable of dealing with flight charecteristics (why can't I hit the target at D400 under 4 G's, Hauptman?), you can't learn, can't adapt so you're leaving for WWII online as it has a more real "feel". You mean the boots are shinier?
I say it again, you're not pilots. There are some fantastic sticks out there exploiting every advantage of the plane they're flying, and they're killers. Some use luftwaffe planes. Rarely are they calling themselves "Fieldmarshall", "Hauptman" or any thing similar. It's of no relevance to how they fly.
Gamers. Sheesh.
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Is there a better WW2 plane than Me 262 ?- BISTRO
Well lunch bag, it could be argued the Dora, G10, or even 190A8 does what it did at least as good. Given high altitude, those planes were as effective, but not at the cost of the German fighter program as Hitler was trying to make bombers out of those related secret weapon resources.
The 262 was a unrealiable turd that burned alot of pilots alive before takeoff with the new fuel management systems for those kerosine burning engines.
But I dig the .30mm and look of it.
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Question...
What's a 109? :eek:
K1
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Sorry Seeker but did you actually read my post? I said that the FM in WW2OL isn't as good as the one in AH, the planes have a bad habbit of never losing E in WW2OL, the dammage modell is better though and more advanced. When it comes to "flight feeling" the one in WW2OL beats all sims I have tried so far, how ever, I am an ultra Realism fan, I care about FM, I am a Pilot in Real Life (are you?)
"It may (WWIIonline) have a porked FM, but it has more realism"...
Those " marks are quotation marks, they symbolize teh EXACT same thing that someone else have written, if it's not the EXACT same thing, it's not a quote.
I don't know how you succeeded to turn ANYTHING of what I said into These things
""It may (WWIIonline) have a porked FM, but it has more realism"..."
""I want more strategy"..no you don't, that's a commander's job, not a pilots.""
I enjoy posting missions, some of the greatest moment I've had in AH have been while CO:ing during Snapshots and Check 6
events.
""I want more tactics"...has nothing to do with roll rate/gun modeling" Nope, I use Real Life Tactics as often as possible.
""It may (WWIIonline) have a porked FM, but it has more realism"...now we're getting there, arn't we?"
WHERE DID I TYPE THAT?! I said the FM in AH IS BETTER then in WW2OL, the DAMMAGE MODELL in WW2OL is newer, more advanced and better.
I am not gonna play WW2OL, I don't really like the FM in it since it's not "right on", I won't pay $10 a month to run around on the ground.
PLEASE Seeker, explain to me where you got those things from? Read between the lines?
:confused: :confused:
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I am a Pilot in Real Life (are you?)
Lol, that explains EVERY thing.
Go ultra-realisticly impress someone at a FBO with your 150 skills. They mean so much to people in a WWII sim.
Im still laughing...
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Wilbus hes just trying to 'get your goat'.
Originally posted by Seeker:
All you "hold my hand I'm leaving" types _are_ in denial, arn't you?
"I want more strategy"..no you don't, that's a commander's job, not a pilots..
er there are no commanders in AH are there you moron.we take the role of planner and executer of those plans.hehe 'pilots job'? you think youre a pilot do you seeker? <stiffled laughter>
Originally posted by Seeker:
"I want more tactics"...has nothing to do with roll rate/gun modeling..
No one said it did.They are seperate issues you MORON.
Originally posted by Seeker:
"It may (WWIIonline) have a porked FM, but it has more realism"...now we're getting there, arn't we? .
this statement is your own.No one has talked of its realism being the attraction.In fact i stated that the fact there is a more strategic scope to WW2ol may outweigh the realism of the FM for some.Moron :D
Originally posted by Seeker:
"Come on, admit it, you luftwhiners aren't interested in FM's, gun modelling or whatever. You're interested in world dominaition and can't quite figure out why you can't do it. Must be the undermodeled roll rate, right?.
wrong Moron.It would be rather difficult to 'take over the world' with a game :D.
Originally posted by Seeker:
"Face it, you guys just can't cut a flight sim,"
mmm seeker has 49kills 80 deaths in tour 16 flying an la7 and spitfireIX.who cant cut it again?..moron :D
Originally posted by Seeker:
"your attention spans are too short to set up a proper bounce (whine: but they have radar, Kapitan!), you're incapable of dealing with flight charecteristics (why can't I hit the target at D400 under 4 G's, Hauptman?), you can't learn, can't adapt so you're leaving for WWII online as it has a more real "feel".
hmmm seeker obviously has a supernatural power of mind reading because as far as i remember no one actually said any of this.Lucky we got this moron here to help us out eh?
Originally posted by Seeker:
I say it again, you're not pilots. There are some fantastic sticks out there exploiting every advantage of the plane they're flying, and they're killers. Some use luftwaffe planes. Rarely are they calling themselves "Fieldmarshall", "Hauptman" or any thing similar. It's of no relevance to how they fly.
Gamers. Sheesh.
oh you must mean the Serious business of rank that permeates the LW squads? I do beleive you are right here!!! our squad CO is very serious about his title.....what was it again? oh yes......."Baron StSanta Von GrossenArsch" :D. very serious indeed!
oh excuse me seeker i forgot one last thing.....
MORON! :D
are the boots REALLY shinier in WW2ol? :D I gotta buy it NOW!
[ 06-08-2001: Message edited by: hazed- ]
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Whined by Hazed- "Moron,moron,moron..."
blah- Quitting the AH online community is one thing, staying around on the BBS for that drivel is pointless.
Get the point?
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creamo i use several BBs AH is just one of many.How could i resist the fascinating insight into how the mind of a moron works unless i read your posts too? :)
now calling someone a moron is a whine too is it creamo? another fascinating peice of information youve graciously given me there creamo.
pointless ? in what way? Did i say i had lost interest in AH altogether? Have i suddenly lost interest in aircraft? sims? world war 2?
I still hope AH will add some stuff that will draw me back.Ive been reading these boards for almost 2 years creamo.Hard habit to break even without playing the game :) what i do here is none of your business so mind your own eh?
ya moron :p get my point?
[ 06-08-2001: Message edited by: hazed- ]
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Never said I left AH for any reason, trying out another sim seems to put a label on you in this BBS. I grew bored, and left, no fan fare nothing. No squeaking from me, what I don't understand is why people get so animated over this. I might be back in AH, but for the time being I am going to try out the other sims. And maybe AH will bring back what I have been missing in a sim for so long.
Ciao AG
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K1 !!!!!!! Are you back??
And Howdy! LOL.. "Whats a 109??"".. LOL.. this from a guy that turned flyin a 109 to a 100 kill streak as "Just another day on line..."
Hristo.. grab this guy up. He's as smart in a cockpit as Citabria, and is probably the best 109 pilot in a sim anybody's ever seen.
If no one remebers this guy it's because he keeps a low profile; flys; rarely dies, and never whines. Kinda refreshing fer a LW guy.
:D
<S!> K1. Hope to see yah up!
Hang
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Seeker has got a really twisted view of the world, what you wrote in your post was pure taunting and ment to make people pissed off, somewhere in that post, when you "read between the lines" you stated that you're a great pilot and all who quit/try another sim are bad pilots.
Only reason I left, like hazed, is that we didn't really have fun anymore, it's probarly AH burnout and we'll probarly be back in the near future. Not one of us said that WW2OL is more realistic, just that it has got a better Feel of "being there", the FM in WW2OL isn't as good as in AH.
Creamo, as for your sort of quit AH leave AH community and never come back attitude, it jsut pure sucks, if you aren't paying for AH you shouldn't be alowed to use th BB either? UH?
Nope, Real Life pilot doesn't mean that much, just that I want realism and chose the best.
[ 06-08-2001: Message edited by: Wilbus ]
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LW planes ARE deadly I took almost a month of leave from AH I come back and go lone wolf for about five days in a 109F-4/R1 and rank #20 in that time. I don't know much if anything about ANY plane represented in Aces High but I did reach a boiling point where I needed a break after which I have come to enjoy the game even more. BUT don't let that fool anyone into thinking I like the MA I would really like to see something more along historical terrain and more of a complex strat to go along with it.
(http://members.home.net/winyah999/ProfFate.jpg) I AM PROFESSOR FATE! (http://members.home.net/winyah999/proffate.wav)
[ 06-08-2001: Message edited by: Professor Fate ]
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creamo doesnt pay a subscription?
what the hell am i doing bothering to answer the fool? sheesh!
<S> wilbus/prof Fate....HEY WHO IS THIS PROF FATE :D?????
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Not quite sure Hazed but the few post I have seen by him, have been good, seams to be a msart guy :)
<S> You two
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Originally posted by Creamo:
Is there a better WW2 plane than Me 262 ?- BISTRO
Well lunch bag, it could be argued the Dora, G10, or even 190A8 does what it did at least as good. Given high altitude, those planes were as effective, but not at the cost of the German fighter program as Hitler was trying to make bombers out of those related secret weapon resources.
The 262 was a unrealiable turd that burned alot of pilots alive before takeoff with the new fuel management systems for those kerosine burning engines.
But I dig the .30mm and look of it.
262 did not use kerosine AFAIK. A mixture of B4 and some additives, I believe.
You'll know just how good it is by the perk points needed when it is introduced. Or go hear the whining on jet day in that other sim.
.30mm would be something like a needle. You probably ment 30mm.
Bomber or fighter, 262 doesn't care too much. Even in Jabo role, it can merrily dive into enemy fighters, drop the bombs, take shots and leave at will. A fantastic plane. Read how Allies were pissed by 262 Jabos at Remagen. They did just the same thing.
Burning pilots ? Utter BS and lie.The plane you call an unreliable turd was THE plane of WW2. In opinions of pilots like Galland himself.
A P51 is to a 262 like Zeke is to a Corsair. They both count on wingloading to save them. Hehe ;)
[ 06-08-2001: Message edited by: Hristo ]
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Ment, Meant, .30mm 30mm... same diffrence.
You just have a "tweak" button on your forehead, it's just to tempting to push.
Yeah, it's a hell of a plane.