Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Mugzeee on June 10, 2004, 06:57:41 PM
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AH2 Needs a “Fighter Town” of sorts.
IMO There is an ever-increasing need to separate the land grabbers from the “fighter only” types. There is a clear split along the lines of the players of AH. And I think could be one of the main sources of the Attitude that is displayed on ch1 in the MA. The “Fighter” only players feel that the “Land grabbers” are ruining the game play by porking fuel, capturing bases, flying in hordes and such. They have a point.
The “fighter types” constantly harass the “Land Grabbers”. Who while flying around to find a “Fair Fight” “Good Fight” “Fun Fight” The fighter types have learned that laying in wait for the Heavy-laden fighters over the target (Their base) can score multiple easy kills on the Dive Bombing fighters.
I truly feel that a “Fighter Only” arena is a must for Aces High future.
The two links below are examples of how the community feels about the issues. I have read countless posts and replies on these very issues. I mean. When this issue comes it rolls like wildfire. players are very passionate about this issue.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=114623&referrerid=7566
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=119379&referrerid=7566
The current CT Arena that AH has is kind of the same thing. But numbers are usally low due to the limited/ scenario plane set.
But i believe an arena that included the entire fighter and perhaps some of the attack planeset, would draw a sizeable player base of those guys that complain about the base grab thingy. added In this "Fighter Arena"..there are 6 bases total. 3 bases per country. There are only 2 countries. There are two opposing bases as close as 10 miles apart. Then two more like some 15 miles apart. finally 2 more opposing bases at 25 miles apart. (These are for the Strato fighters)
Ground objects like Hangers and Fuel Bunkers and so on, are untouchable. Base Capture is OFFand Field ACK are VERY Accurate making vulching almost non existant. Git the idea?And maybe...i say maybe...the head butting would stop.
So…do we need a “Fighter Only” arena?
And I wonder if HT would ever consider such a proposal?
:)
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MugZ are you saying we shouldnt defend a base when it comes time to do so? Or when the need arises?
I have a hard time thinking your being serious here. Im reluctant to comment on most due to the fact this looks more like a troll than anything else.
But I'll take a chance here and only go so far as to say I disagree with what you have said.
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
AH2 Needs a “Fighter Town” of sorts.
IMO There is an ever-increasing need to separate the land grabbers from the “fighter only” types. There is a clear split along the lines of the players of AH. And I think could be one of the main sources of the Attitude that is displayed on ch1 in the MA. The “Fighter” only players feel that the “Land grabbers” are ruining the game play by porking fuel, capturing bases, flying in hordes and such. They have a point.
The “fighter types” constantly harass the “Land Grabbers”. Who while flying around to find a “Fair Fight” “Good Fight” “Fun Fight” The fighter types have learned that laying in wait for the Heavy-laden fighters over the target (Their base) can score multiple easy kills on the Dive Bombing fighters.
I truly feel that a “Fighter Only” arena is a must for Aces High future.
The two links below are examples of how the community feels about the issues. I have read countless posts and replies on these very issues. I mean. When this issue comes it rolls like wildfire. players are very passionate about this issue.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=114623&referrerid=7566
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=119379&referrerid=7566
The current CT Arena that AH has is kind of the same thing. But numbers are usally low due to the limited/ scenario plane set.
But i believe an arena that included the entire fighter and perhaps some of the attack planeset, would draw a sizeable player base of those guys that complain about the base grab thingy. And maybe...i say maybe...the head butting would stop.
So…do we need a “Fighter Only” arena?
And I wonder if HT would ever consider such a proposal?
:)
Being a "Fighter Type" maybe I just don't get it but... Wouldn't land grabbing without Fighters/Fighting be about as much fun as watching grass grow?
Zazen
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what I don't understand is all this *****in about land grabbin and Furballing....
why is it that I have absolutely no trouble finding the fights I want.....either mindless Furballs(Knights) or 20k fights(Rooks)....all easy too find
you wanna Jabo...go ahead...wanna fight...you can do that too....thats what DALE is tryin to do....give choices
LEARN to look around your damn map or ask more experienced players to help you find what you want
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Being a "Fighter Type" maybe I just don't get it but... Wouldn't land grabbing without Fighters/Fighting be about as much fun as watching grass grow?
Zazen
Maybe it isn’t that your not getting it. Maybe it’s that your being facetious.
Of course there will be Fighter AC in the “Land Grab” Arena. Cept maybe the 262 and 163 :D
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
MugZ are you saying we shouldnt defend a base when it comes time to do so? Or when the need arises?
I have a hard time thinking your being serious here. Im reluctant to comment on most due to the fact this looks more like a troll than anything else.
But I'll take a chance here and only go so far as to say I disagree with what you have said.
Not at all. As part of the "Land grabber" arena...nothing would change. But if you are one of the whiners claiming that the "Land Grabbers" are killing your fuel. You coud go to an arena where there are no Land grabbing/porking capabilities. It would be an arena with the entire Fighter and Attacker planeset. It would be like an arena we had in Airwarrior called "Fighter Town". There were a few bases Like 4 or 6....two countries.... And fight's galore!!! :)
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If an idea like this were to be taken seriously by HTC, I'd be happy. Honestly, tho, there wouldn't be many people in "fightertown" at any given time, IMO.
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Originally posted by SLO
what I don't understand is all this *****in about land grabbin and Furballing....
why is it that I have absolutely no trouble finding the fights I want.....either mindless Furballs(Knights) or 20k fights(Rooks)....all easy too find
you wanna Jabo...go ahead...wanna fight...you can do that too....thats what DALE is tryin to do....give choices
LEARN to look around your damn map or ask more experienced players to help you find what you want
Slo..i agree totaly
But the community has become clearly divided. And the Proposal would create a place for the so called "Good Fights" that unlike the CT...would include the entire Fighter/ Attacker planeset.
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Originally posted by VOR
If an idea like this were to be taken seriously by HTC, I'd be happy. Honestly, tho, there wouldn't be many people in "fightertown" at any given time, IMO.
:rofl I think your right. Those so called "Aces" dont really want a fair fight.:p
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
:rofl I think your right. Those so called "Aces" dont really want a fair fight.:p
indeed Mugzeee, but least you would know who was all talk, and who was straight up as far as BS talking goes, but then again we pretty much can figure that out now can't we?
easy to spot a tard! :D
I read an article/webpage once recently that I thought was pretty good. It had to do with unwritten rules, ethics.
To me this is probably the biggest problem in Aces High, there is no Honor , No morals, No ethicS!
and it really has nothing to do with AH it is about the way this world has evolved in the past 14 years....... and the advent of gamey gamers and cheat codes and Quake! :D
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
indeed Mugzeee, but least you would know who was all talk, and who was straight up, but then again we pretty much can figure that out now can't we?
easy to spot a tard! :D
Hiya teq. I respect your point of view. :)
And i would be one of the "Land Grabber" players.
I do really hate to see cute name calling get started though.
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ah I am not calling names really, "tard" is a person that is constantly babbling on channel 1, claims to be all mighty, whines when he is shot down, etc.....
that was my meaning, nothing more.
and I don't think er look at it as land grabbers and fighter guys, I look at it as everyone has their own choice as to what they like to do, participate in....it's your $14.95 spendi it the best way you can get the most satisfaction out of it
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We already have this.
Its called the DA and this scenario you are descibing takes plane nearly every night at A1 and A2.
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when i want a good fight in the MA...i call upon the good fighters.
I'll scream real loud that I stole WILBUZ's cheap leather thong and sold it to Morpheus....and promptly tell em WHERE I AM
of course i tell em to bring his boyfriends with em:rofl
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
We already have this.
Its called the DA and this scenario you are descibing takes plane nearly every night at A1 and A2.
well...your right in a way. But DA isnt recogognized by the community as such. Most think the DA is a place to Piss Match after an confrontation in the MA on Ch1. :rofl
:)
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Well the DA is also a great place to learn. Sadly the drive to "learn" just isn't there for most.
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doesnt the DA format usally dictate a Fair Fight? ie Co Alt Co Speed. and so on? The Fightertown would be different in the way the the fights would be Random. Just like the MA cept Fighters only.
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I know you've flown at A1-A2. You are lucky to get up to speed or even off the runway before being shot at.
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Quit trolling and come to MA ;)
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DA will not teach you reversals...
DA will not teach you HOW to counter reversals....
DA will not teach you HOW too attack with an ADV.....
DA will not teach you to vulch(surpress) correctly.....
DA will not teach you too FIGHT with a wingman or 2 or 3 or more...
no teamwork in DA
so on and so forth....
DA is good for those lookin to go to the extreme fighting envelope of a plane....called stall fighting
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>> Honestly, tho, there wouldn't be many people in "fightertown" at any given time, IMO.<<
No doubt. Just as there aren't many in the CA and relatively few in AH2. People flock to the numbers. Its a mob, mob, mob world. AH2 is superior to AH and still numbers stay around 120 or so at night. I don't get it. All those folks still in AH MA can't have system restraints problems.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
>> Honestly, tho, there wouldn't be many people in "fightertown" at any given time, IMO.<<
No doubt. Just as there aren't many in the CA and relatively few in AH2. People flock to the numbers. Its a mob, mob, mob world. AH2 is superior to AH and still numbers stay around 120 or so at night. I don't get it. All those folks still in AH MA can't have system restraints problems.
I think most arent interested in running AH2 cause its not released as of yet. I think there hoping all the bugs will be worked out before they d/l it. As for the CT...the limited planeset keeps most out of there.
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Slo I have to disagree with you here. I'm sorry but a DA type enviroment but on a slightly larger scale will help. You say that there is no team work when it comes to the DA. I don't believe that is correct either. It's you the person who chooses not to fly with a wingmen and learn tactics.
I actually think such an enviroment will bring about more wingmen tactics and in the end make better pilots out of alot of folks. You can take any two pilots from the MA now who are decent and I can bet that they can't fly worth crap with each other as wingmen. The reason for this is most decent pilots know only how to work by themselves. They will rarely pickup the maneuvers of the other pilot and capitolize from them. Their reactions will be slower than most crews who actually do fly together. In a solo fight yeah they may be able to hold their own but against crew with the same amount of flying time as them but dedicated to flying wingmen tactics they will surely loose.
If you also think that the DA will teach you little about reversals thats incorrect. Yeah everything seems to be about the initial merge, but what do you do after you've been beat during the merge? Yeah you have to dig yourself out of the hole you just jumped into. Considering the fact that your now defensive your every move makes the difference to winning or losing. If you solely rely on the merge then your gonna be toast. Good pilots can get themselves into trouble and 75% of the time get themselves back out of trouble. The DA can teach this.
Now step up the odds and put your money where your mouth is and take on 2 other pilots. Now the stakes are a bit higher and it's just not about the turn and burn only. You have to learn the fine art of energy management. Add a third pilot and now opposed to just flying on a wing and a prayer with a bit of energy management you have to learn the art of prioritizing your threats.
Once you can learn this you can then take it to the next level and put your new skills to the test with wingmen tactics. They are about dedication and patience. To be a good wingmen it takes alot of time and practice. Again it's a matter of how you setup your DA fights as to whether or not your going to learn something. Mix up the types of aircraft( similiar vs. similiar or similiar vs dissimiliar). If your just going to prove something and beat your chest then in the end the DA is worthless. If your going with the frame of mind of learning and gaining confidence then it's another story.
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
I know you've flown at A1-A2. You are lucky to get up to speed or even off the runway before being shot at.
From the MOTD in the DA
DUELING ARENA Ruels Of Engagment:
This arena is specifically for pilots to challange and meet each other in the field of combat.
If you interfere, then you may be asked to leave.
See morph? This is another example of why where AH is going bad. Simple Rules are ignored on a regular basis. The DA isnt actually the same as the "Fighter Town of Airwarrior.
First of all the Killshooter in the DA is OFF making instant simi vulching possible. ie. fighter barely gits wheels up and hes being shot at. lol
Secondly in Fighter Town..there are 6 bases total. 3 bases per country. There are only 2 countries. There are two opposing bases as close as 10 miles apart. Then two more like some 15 miles apart. finally 2 more opposing bases at 25 miles apart. (These are for the Strato fighters) :D
Ground objects like Hangers and Fuel Bunkers and so on, are untouchable. Base Capture is OFFand Field ACK are VERY Accurate making vulching almost non existant. Git the idea? If not i have an AW CD i can send you i think. Ill look
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Originally posted by VOR
If an idea like this were to be taken seriously by HTC, I'd be happy. Honestly, tho, there wouldn't be many people in "fightertown" at any given time, IMO.
I agree. and I think that stems from the fact that no matter what it is your into most people want to be where the crowd is. which is probably why you never see a ton of people in the dualing arena.
As I was saying on another thread. what is needed is a place on each map with uncapturable feilds designated for fighters only Much in the same way was used in the Big Pacific Arena in AW
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DA will not teach you reversals...
Wrong.
DA will not teach you HOW to counter reversals....
Wrong.
DA will not teach you HOW too attack with an ADV.....
Wrong.
DA will not teach you too FIGHT with a wingman or 2 or 3 or more...
DA will not teach you to vulch(surpress) correctly.....
Go to A1 or A2 for vulch lessons.
no teamwork in DA
Wrong.
If you beleive I am wrong for saying you are wrong you should come in there with us when we really do some work in the DA. YOu can practice just about anything you want in there. 2v2s 3v3s 1v2's ect..... In the DA your advantage becomes your skills. It does not have to involve stall fighting better than the other guy. By no means is stall fighting the only tactic used in the DA to win. You also learn to gain other advantages in the DA over your opponent. Those of which I will not bother getting into for lack of others understanding. (Its just not worth my time to explain it)
You guys can have your fighter town. I'll stick to the MA and kill what ever comes my way. And if I want to LEARN or practice or just hunt for a better fight I'll head to the DA.
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
It does not have to involve stall fighting better than the other guy. By no means is stall fighting the only tactic used in the DA to win. You also learn to gain other advantages in the DA over your opponent. Those of which I will not bother getting into for lack of others understanding. (Its just not worth my time to explain it)
You guys can have your fighter town. I'll stick to the MA and kill what ever comes my way. And if I want to LEARN or practice or just hunt for a better fight I'll head to the DA.
This seems to imply that we arent as smart as you. :rolleyes:
I dont think anyone wants to learn from an instructor that lack's confidence in his/her student. Or one that forgot what it was like to be the student that the instructor's took time out for. I always had time for Jeffer
:confused:
As for the "Learn or Practice" well...thats not what a FT is for. Fighter Town is exactly what the "Aces" are saying they want. Unpredictable realistic "Fighter" combat situations. Everyone is there for the same reason. To prove they are the BEST AtoA Combat Fighter in the skies.
Bring on the Fighter Town!!! all yous "Aces" Bring IT!!!!! And git the helll outa the MA for good. hehehehe
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Why are you guys opposed to another choice? Choice is good right? Hypothetically, if you could have an arena where every time you logged in you could engage in a constant dynamic furball would that be such a terrible thing. Ok so when you get bored you go to the MA or somewhere else.
What would be so bad if HTC created a Fighter Town? What is the worst that would happen? People would go there and fight?
If your so against it, then it's just a place you never go, if no one goes there then they can always remove it. All responses here are complete speculation. The only way to know what it would be is for HTC to actually do it.
Personally I think a Fighter Town is long over due. If it doesn't work it doesn't work but it should be tried. There is a missing element in this game. The land grabbers definately can and do affect the length, quality and duration of good fights in the MA. On some maps i.e. Pizza et-al good fights, furball type fights, are very hard to come by.
When people say "Ohh you can find any fight at any time on any map." I say BS. This clearly shows me you can't see the problem, you fly safe at alt getting into a fight here or a fight there or you are mostly ground pounding anyway.
Anyone who is looking for furball type AtoA has at some point found very little to do at some time on most of the maps in the MA. When this happens it would be nice to have a Fighter Town. I'm not saying a Fighter Town would gaurantee this, but it would be a step in the right direction.
The DA is not a fighter town and never will be.
You guys talk about choice, but we still have maps where most of the bases are a sector or more apart, clearly reducing the choices.
Fester has proven balanced maps where some bases are a sector or more apart and some that are not clearly creates more action. It forces the building battlers to work in a more coordinated way and gives fighter types many avenues to work from.
just my $.02.
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its the same as getting moaned at for flying buffs.......
if you want fighters only, GOTO DA :rolleyes:
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If all the "Fighter" types went to "Fighter Town" and all the "Land Grabbers" stayed in the MA, would all the "Land Grabbers" just fly right by each other on the way to target ?
I play more for the "fight" and only participate in the "land grab" occasionally, but I fail to believe that "Fighter Town" would be used. It would be less populated than the CT IMO.
The real solution is more balanced maps such as the maps that Fester has made. His maps provide it all as far as I am concerned.
Mugzee ... the "fuel poking" issue has been solved in AH II so that really is no longer a concern.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Mugzee ... the "fuel poking" issue has been solved in AH II so that really is no longer a concern.
the annoying thing is, this makes the game so much more unrealistic........:(
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Originally posted by SlapShot
If all the "Fighter" types went to "Fighter Town" and all the "Land Grabbers" stayed in the MA, would all the "Land Grabbers" just fly right by each other on the way to target ?
I play more for the "fight" and only participate in the "land grab" occasionally, but I fail to believe that "Fighter Town" would be used. It would be less populated than the CT IMO.
The real solution is more balanced maps such as the maps that Fester has made. His maps provide it all as far as I am concerned.
Mugzee ... the "fuel poking" issue has been solved in AH II so that really is no longer a concern.
I guess that would depend on what your definition of "Land Grabber" would be. Some would consider the simple act of capturing a base "Land Grabbing" Some would consider a "Land Grabber" One who would NOT engage a Light Bandit while trying to deliver his Ord to the intended target. Shame on him for trying to complete his mission. :rolleyes: But to answer the question. No they wouldnt just fly by each other. :rolleyes:
I think yall are missing the point. The so called "Land grabber" are actually WAR sim enthusiest that wish to engage in ALL facets of battle. The so called "Aces"..you know...the ones that Mouth about landgrabbing? Those are the ones that need a "Fighter Town" Of course we all know its true that probably less than 50% of the "Aces" are full of poopoo. They wouldnt like a "fair" fight if it bit them in the Arse err 6 errr 20mm bit them on the 6. :D
You git the picture
PS. True balance is impossible in the current AH1 or AH2. Most of the reasons have been stated in this thread along with countless other threads.
:)
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The fuel porking has only moderately been solved, we just have fuel inflation right now.
The planes burn fuel at a much faster rate, so they couldn't possibly leave the pork level at 25%.
Has anyone taken a plane up with only 25% fuel. Your out of gas before you reach the end of the runway. So using only 25% fuel is no longer an option in a lot of the planes.
The fact that they reduced the fuel porkage to 75% and not 50% does help but it in no way eradicates the problem.
Slap all you need for a decent fight is 10 to 20 guys at opposing fields. That is the beauty of a Fighter Town and why the current arenas don't work. In the CT and the DA there are too many options and people get too dispersed. A Fighter Town does not need 200 to 500 people like the MA.
It would be nice to have the choice.
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So in a Dofight, a "Furballer" should be able to smack down a "Land Grabber" with ease eh Mugz? lol
You guys just love to classify, your either this or your that.
What a load of Pooop, haha :rolleyes:
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The so called "Aces"..you know...the ones that Mouth about landgrabbing? Those are the ones that need a "Fighter Town" Of course we all know its true that probably less than 50% of the "Aces" are full of poopoo. They wouldnt like a "fair" fight if it bit them in the Arse err 6 errr 20mm bit them on the 6.
Mugzee you keep making this accusation, but do you care to back this spewage up with some names or are you going to keep talking out of your prettythang?
You have some good comments and dialog going, but then you discount it all with crap like this. What "we all know is true" is that none of us know what would happen or what people would be there or not.
It's not about who is a land grabber and who is a furballer. I would guess that most of us do both. It is about being able to land grab any time I want, and instead of only being able to find a decent furball once and a while, have somewhere to go where I could always find a furball.
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anyone who doesn't notice a huge rift between building battlers and noble furballers in this game is simply naive or comatose.
It is also true that we all want to be "part of the community".
the solution is to give everyone a choice to fly whatever he wants but... then people are forced to fly fast late war planes to compete and fields have to be far apart to accomidate the late war planes... the rift is the result. No way to solve it with current thinking.
the solution is an early war area in the huge maps... no late war planes can get to it or take off from it's...oh... say, 12 close fields. the early war area would have it's own reset so not affect or be affected by the rest of the arena... "the ###### have won the early war area" for instance. My guess is tho that mostly the early war area would be battle of britan style of fighting... everyone would still be part of the same arena with the same radios etc..
far as I can see it is the only workable solution.
lazs
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Originally posted by mars01
The fuel porking has only moderately been solved, we just have fuel inflation right now.
The planes burn fuel at a much faster rate, so they couldn't possibly leave the pork level at 25%.
Has anyone taken a plane up with only 25% fuel. Your out of gas before you reach the end of the runway. So using only 25% fuel is no longer an option in a lot of the planes.
The fact that they reduced the fuel porkage to 75% and not 50% does help but it in no way eradicates the problem.
Slap all you need for a decent fight is 10 to 20 guys at opposing fields. That is the beauty of a Fighter Town and why the current arenas don't work. In the CT and the DA there are too many options and people get too dispersed. A Fighter Town does not need 200 to 500 people like the MA.
It would be nice to have the choice.
The Fuel Burn rate is a setting that can be changed at the drop of a hat if HTC decided to do so. This would indicate the the current fuel burn rate setting in conjunction with the change in fuel outage setting is an attempt to cause an illusion of change. The math pans out like this. If in AH1 the fuel burn rate is x1 and in AH2 it is set at x2, then AH2 will allow a P51D 307 mins of (idle) run time on the runway with a 75% fuel load. AH1 will allow the P51D an (idle) run time of 206 minitues on the runway with a 25% fuel load. So HTC has catered to the whines of the Anti Land Grabbers.
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Originally posted by mars01
Mugzee you keep making this accusation, but do you care to back this spewage up with some names or are you going to keep talking out of your prettythang?
You have some good comments and dialog going, but then you discount it all with crap like this. What "we all know is true" is that none of us know what would happen or what people would be there or not.
It's not about who is a land grabber and who is a furballer. I would guess that most of us do both. It is about being able to land grab any time I want, and instead of only being able to find a decent furball once and a while, have somewhere to go where I could always find a furball.
I knew someone would eventually make this a personal matter. But i guess i brought it on by this comment from a previous reply "Of course we all know its true that probably less than 50% of the "Aces" are full of poopoo. They wouldnt like a "fair" fight if it bit them in the Arse err 6 errr 20mm bit them on the 6." My apoligies for that comment. It was foolish and rude. :(
Havent you been reading the BBS for any length of time? Havent you ever monitored Ch1? Of course im not going to personalize this issue. The cries about the "Land Grabbing" have been shouted thruoghout the AH Lands for quite some time now. Here in the BBS and in the MA as well. This isnt a personal issue. It is the cries of a large portion of the MA community. There are countless references to the in the BBS. If you going take it personally, then our discusion is over.
and please try not to make it personal. :)
Also we must be ever mindfull that the BBS community is only a fraction of the AH community. Therefore we can never conclude that the BBS is a meaningfull guage of AH public opinion.
Nope this is for discussion purpose only
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Not taking it personal Mugz,
You can see how long I've been on the BBs for yourself and I never squelch chan1.
All I am saying is that baseless statements like that take away from your posts credability and add nothing to the conversation.
If you added some names or something then we could get the flamefest started.:DAlso we must be ever mindfull that the BBS community is only a fraction of the AH community. Therefore we can never conclude that the BBS is a meaningfull guage of AH public opinion.
No doubt about it.
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So HTC has catered to the whines of the Anti Land Grabbers.
Maybe, and I certainly don't want to speak for HT and Pyro, but maybe they just want to move things back towards a fighting style of gameplay that was common when they both started playing Air Warrior over a decade ago. I suppose that if they did it becasue they personally saw fuel porking as a problem with gameplay then they are whiners too?
Charon
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Originally posted by lazs2
anyone who doesn't notice a huge rift between building battlers and noble furballers in this game is simply naive or comatose.
And anyone who dosn't notice that it is YOU laz who is doing his best to create this rift and thus doing the most harm to AH is blind.
HiTech
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Originally posted by Charon
Maybe, and I certainly don't want to speak for HT and Pyro, but maybe they just want to move things back towards a fighting style of gameplay that was common when they both started playing Air Warrior over a decade ago. I suppose that if they did it becasue they personally saw fuel porking as a problem with gameplay then they are whiners too?
Charon
My mistake I should have stated it this way. "IMO HTC has seemingly catered to the whines of the Anti Land Grabbers. " Note: changes are in red text.
As for whether or not they are "Whiners too" i wouldnt know. They might be. Or they might not be. But one fact remains true. If they are whiners...then im pretty sure they could cater to their own whines at will. ;)
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It is HT's house and we either accept his gameplay/rules or find something else of interest....:D
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
It is HT's house and we either accept his gameplay/rules or find something else of interest....:D
Ruels? this game has rules? :D Seriously though. I dont think we are talking about rules. I think we are refering to Game Play and the settings that effect it. And perhaps a way to improve the overall product HTC has to offer. Im certian that HT and HTC arent opposed to new ideas. And i wouldnt think that they would ignor opinion of the Cosgtomers that pays their bills. The BBS is a great place to inform the "merchant" as to the desiers of the customer. Since the customer base is so diverse, these discussions are necessary to get a feel as to how the customers views the product. Thats all
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Originally posted by mars01
Not taking it personal Mugz,
You can see how long I've been on the BBs for yourself and I never squelch chan1.
All I am saying is that baseless statements like that take away from your posts credability and add nothing to the conversation.
If you added some names or something then we could get the flamefest started.:D No doubt about it.
I dont see how the comments are baseless based on the explaination i have given? Isnt it here for all to see? :)
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I don't care if you landgrab. I just see no point in taking land that noone is defending.
There is to much reward for avoiding conflict.
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Originally posted by Furious
I don't care if you landgrab. I just see no point in taking land that noone is defending.
There is to much reward for avoiding conflict.
So the war tactic of flanknig would be unacceptable to you? Taking a flank base usally dictates a base lightly defended.
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This is always the excuse used by those who wish to avoid fighting other players.
...but, I would give it to ya if it was there were limits. I would like to see a front line in the war. 6-8 fields for each side active on each front. All other fields are dead. As one field is captured by a team, then their most useless field on the front goes dead. Clever tactics would need to be employed to pull off sneak attacks and flanking moves. Not a hording milk run in some uninhabited place on the map.
Sneaking around 3 or 4 sectors away from any enemy activity isn't tactics, it's gamey BS.
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Originally posted by Furious
This is always the excuse used by those who wish to avoid fighting other players.
...but, I would give it to ya if it was there were limits. I would like to see a front line in the war. 6-8 fields for each side active on each front. All other fields are dead. As one field is captured by a team, then their most useless field on the front goes dead. Clever tactics would need to be employed to pull off sneak attacks and flanking moves. Not a hording milk run in some uninhabited place on the map.
Sneaking around 3 or 4 sectors away from any enemy activity isn't tactics, it's gamey BS.
I would see it as strategy. Taking a base 100 miles deep in NME territory is a great tactic and a valid tactic at that. Its called a diversionary tactic. Its design is to draw the attention of the NME somewhere far from the main objective. This is exactly what was done several days before D-DAY. The allies were bombing one city (Forget which one it was) to make the Germans think they were going to invade there. When in Fact they were going to invade Normandy. Taking the attention off the main objective (Front Line horde Bases) temporarily is a good tactic in an arena with such large numbers crammed into sometimes 50 Sq. miles.. This is one tactic that actually spreads the players out a little.. Enter MugZ's tactic of :aok You cant say im not doing my part to disperse the horde. :rofl
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Mugz has a good point
However... :)
You can split arena's up all you want. What you get is an "MA" with the majority still going there because frankly, thats where there are more opportunities. You get a "Fiter Arena" so to speak, and while it's nice to have, the numbers really make it less than what it could be (hard to explain).
Nothing will ever stop the bad attitudes about this or that, until folks start looking in the mirror when they're lashing out blame. I'm positive there is an abundance of mighty building battler's who run around porking fuel for no other reason than to be irritating. ... so they want to be annoying :rolleyes: . I'm also positive there are a number "Fiter Hero's" who are in their own right annoying as they pay no attention whatsoever to the "big fite" as they whimp around on the edges cherry pickin those trying to be "strategic". .... real hero's :rolleyes: Then you have the horde-warriors, bunching up like a herd of nervous chiuahua's gallantly attacking air and AI armed dirt thinking somehow they will earn some kind of bad-ass reputation. :aok Lets not forget those who pride themselves on their 3l1+3 $|<1ll$ when in in reality they long ago forgot this was a WW2 combat flight sim as opposed to a neat game having something to do with air and old planes :eek: Many of us should stop considering ourselves hero's.... or at least stop trying to change things to make that end-state easier to obtain by firing off our cake-holes on ch1 (like anyone's gonna take ya seriously over a GAME anyway). A little self-sacrifice never hurts, neither does a little pro-activeness (sp?).
In other words... we've got what we've got, and it is good. Who knew... Take 500 plus people who have a tendency to sit behind a computer for hours at a time anyway, putt'em in one spot and the atmosphere will inevitably get pissy. Breaking up arena's has never made things any better. But, FWIW... if it's not allot of trouble why not? lol
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I use to do the whole land grabbing thing quite often. Now I tend to lean more towards the fighter sweeps instead. I think it's not the arena that is causing less fighter to fighter battles but the folks and how they fly.
Some of us will fly out around the outskirts away from the massive hordes looking for an aerial battle. I have to do it because I don't have a wingmen(s)to fly with. That is what limits me from going into the areas where big missions are. There would be no point of me going towards the massive dar bar because I'd pretty much be guaranteeing my own death.
I think you could have a fighter arena but instead of it being like the DA have it be more like the TA. Keep the ground based stuff virtually indestrucable but keep the same small map. The DA to me seems more like a TA layout. You have the low, medium and high alt bases for training. You have the bomb run area for exactly that bomb run training. You have a miny gv training area in there also. The only thing I could see that you'd need is just a general flying area to get use to basic flight maneuvers. When I was in a squad we'd use the DA as a training arena opposed to the actual TA. It gave us realistic damage just like the MA but it gave us the option to use different airframes at different alts for training.
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All that running around and taking territory and avoiding conflict is great in the real world where actual lives are on the line.
...but, we play a game. Avoiding combat in a combat simulator is silly.
Also, I do not want to disperse the hordes, I want them to collide. I want HUGE pitched battles, not a green horde milking undefended bases over here and red hordes milking base over there.
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Originally posted by Furious
All that running around and taking territory and avoiding conflict is great in the real world where actual lives are on the line.
...but, we play a game. Avoiding combat in a combat simulator is silly.
Also, I do not want the disperse the hordes, I want them to collide. I want HUGE pitched battles, not a green horde milking undefended bases over here and red hordes milking base over there.
So is that a Yes vote?
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
We already have this.
Its called the DA and this scenario you are descibing takes plane nearly every night at A1 and A2.
yep, no kidding. If it was sooooo popular an idea, it would already be happening, because the structure is there for it, right now.
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
Slo..i agree totaly
But the community has become clearly divided.
Everybody against the LTAR's. They'd like that.
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Originally posted by Overlag
its the same as getting moaned at for flying buffs.......
if you want fighters only, GOTO DA :rolleyes:
:aok
ENUFF SAID
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Bring on the Fighter Town!!! all yous "Aces" Bring IT!!!!! And git the helll outa the MA for good. hehehehe
Which would leave what for the land grabbers? Killing their town and deacking a base? Oh wait here comes the good, the most exciting part of the whole chittin deal.:aok
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DUELING ARENA Ruels Of Engagment:
You honestly think those people who fly at A1 and A2 practice ROE? LMFAO
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This seems to imply that we arent as smart as you.
Well you sure as hell aren't. Not if you are going to talk this bullchit and expect me to take this crap you speak of as a fighter town seriously.
The same smartass you always were. :aok
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Hmm.....4 post back to back......
guess all the kids are experiencing family hour bout now around your area Morph
you finally able to be online with out the bog down :D :rofl
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
Which would leave what for the land grabbers? Killing their town and deacking a base? Oh wait here comes the good, the most exciting part of the whole chittin deal.:aok
Your making NO sense AT ALL. That or you are totally missing the point. Either way it must be over your head or you dont think its a good idea. I have you down as a NO vote.
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
You honestly think those people who fly at A1 and A2 practice ROE? LMFAO
Welp..againg. the problem with the game in general.
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
Well you sure as hell aren't. Not if you are going to talk this bullchit and expect me to take this crap you speak of as a fighter town seriously.
The same smartass you always were. :aok
Whats with the attitude? I dont remember calling you a name? Im still not sure where you are coming from. You must be missing it. The Fighter Town would be For Dog Fighting ONLY. The DA we currently have most definently does not support the massive Fighter Arena i am speaking of. (The reasons have been mentioned in this thread several times.) The MA would be for the WAR Game. Which Include's Dogfighting and everything that goes with war. Or are you lashing out to what i said in the earlier post?
Originally posted by Mugzeee
"This seems to imply that we arent as smart as you.
I dont think anyone wants to learn from an instructor that lack's confidence in his/her student. Or one that forgot what it was like to be the student that the instructor's took time out for. I always had time for Jeffer
Sorry Dude...but i think its worth mentioning in light of your comments in the earlier post about not having time to teach others.
Originally posted by MoRphEuS
It does not have to involve stall fighting better than the other guy. By no means is stall fighting the only tactic used in the DA to win. You also learn to gain other advantages in the DA over your opponent. Those of which I will not bother getting into for lack of others understanding. (Its just not worth my time to explain it)
You guys can have your fighter town. I'll stick to the MA and kill what ever comes my way. And if I want to LEARN or practice or just hunt for a better fight I'll head to the DA.
Apparently you forgot the countless hours i spent helping you out when you were new to the game. You thanked me and i asked you to "Just pass it along to others"Take a deep breath...and you will realize that its you thats being a jerk. And now im the one offended. Thanks buddy OUT
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Hmmmm....Hmmmmm
Damn good post :aok :aok
Originally posted by Tumor
Mugz has a good point
However... :)
You can split arena's up all you want. What you get is an "MA" with the majority still going there because frankly, thats where there are more opportunities. You get a "Fiter Arena" so to speak, and while it's nice to have, the numbers really make it less than what it could be (hard to explain).
Nothing will ever stop the bad attitudes about this or that, until folks start looking in the mirror when they're lashing out blame. I'm positive there is an abundance of mighty building battler's who run around porking fuel for no other reason than to be irritating. ... so they want to be annoying :rolleyes: . I'm also positive there are a number "Fiter Hero's" who are in their own right annoying as they pay no attention whatsoever to the "big fite" as they whimp around on the edges cherry pickin those trying to be "strategic". .... real hero's :rolleyes: Then you have the horde-warriors, bunching up like a herd of nervous chiuahua's gallantly attacking air and AI armed dirt thinking somehow they will earn some kind of bad-ass reputation. :aok Lets not forget those who pride themselves on their 3l1+3 $|<1ll$ when in in reality they long ago forgot this was a WW2 combat flight sim as opposed to a neat game having something to do with air and old planes :eek: Many of us should stop considering ourselves hero's.... or at least stop trying to change things to make that end-state easier to obtain by firing off our cake-holes on ch1 (like anyone's gonna take ya seriously over a GAME anyway). A little self-sacrifice never hurts, neither does a little pro-activeness (sp?).
In other words... we've got what we've got, and it is good. Who knew... Take 500 plus people who have a tendency to sit behind a computer for hours at a time anyway, putt'em in one spot and the atmosphere will inevitably get pissy. Breaking up arena's has never made things any better. But, FWIW... if it's not allot of trouble why not? lol
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Originally posted by Overlag
the annoying thing is, this makes the game so much more unrealistic........:(
Next time you get blown out of the sky and take off again think about the annoying thing.... ;)
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Originally posted by Cooley
So in a Dofight, a "Furballer" should be able to smack down a "Land Grabber" with ease eh Mugz? lol
You guys just love to classify, your either this or your that.
What a load of Pooop, haha :rolleyes:
CC have you as a NO vote. :)
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Mugz just FYI. You know absolutely nothing about me helping others. I would start to name just a few of those whome I've helped but it wouldn't be worth my time.
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
Mugz just FYI. You know absolutely nothing about me helping others. I would start to name just a few of those whome I've helped but it wouldn't be worth my time.
Just replying to your remarks. Nothing more
Your remarks imply a certian selfishness. Not saying you are or are not. Just pointing how you came across.
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Remarks where? from here? actions speak louder than words my friend.
I am not going to sit here and try and teach something that cannot be taught with words. Most if not all things in this game are learned though doing. ACM cant be taught through words. You of all people should know this. And its never given its earned. Thats the way it should be.
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.........JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZUS!
for crying out loud!
oh me oh my!
For the love of god!
Why, oh, why?
No! not the nail gun again jimmy. what have i told you? you remember what happened to tommy?
etc
etc
Mugz has only put forward a suggestion and it seems many of you have taken it personaly.
from what i read here, alot of us really believe we are skilled aviators, using 'ACM' and 'blah' and 'blah' and 'blah-ty-squealing-blah'!
We are not. we are lonely hobbiest who spend more than 40% of our free time on a game.
morpheus:
You seem to think you are on some kind of 'untouchables' list or something. you may have your spelling and punctuation down to a fine art and you may be able to fly a (virtual) plane to a reasonable standard, but if you came down my road, flying your lightning on the deck, spraying cannon shells at the kiddies by the pond, and if you flew over my house, when im trying to get some peace and quiet from a hard days work in the dole line, and you were keeping me up all hours with your 'im a fighter pilot and my view is always correct' whilst i was trying to get a little night cap with the misses, flowers by the bedside, candles, midly scented perfume in the air and '101 best songs for making whoope' playing subtley from my CD player in the corner. If you disturbed my real life, i would say:
OI! Morpheus! NO!
you may very well command my respect in a hobby we all enjoy named Aces High, and yes, i do fear your twin engined monster with 10k alt over me, but that gives you no right to lord your opinion over us like you're HT himself. you may very well be a fine stick and im sure you have a decent processor in your head, but that gives you no right to boom n zoom my back yard on a lazy sunday afternoon! Yes, the muppets are a great squad and yes, i respect your ACM skills, but if you were to strafe my 6 as i was riding my motobike to the game on a saturday, i would shout....
OI! Morpheus! NO!
fighter town would be cool.
My vote is in as a 'yes'
laters BBS
mechanic
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and anyways. my opinion means nothing
Edit: so there :p
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Something like this is what needs to be in the little "furball' corner of the DA.
Originally posted by Mugzeee
. The DA isnt actually the same as the "Fighter Town of Airwarrior.
First of all the Killshooter in the DA is OFF making instant simi vulching possible. ie. fighter barely gits wheels up and hes being shot at. lol
Secondly in Fighter Town..there are 6 bases total. 3 bases per country. There are only 2 countries. There are two opposing bases as close as 10 miles apart. Then two more like some 15 miles apart. finally 2 more opposing bases at 25 miles apart. (These are for the Strato fighters) :D
Ground objects like Hangers and Fuel Bunkers and so on, are untouchable. Base Capture is OFFand Field ACK are VERY Accurate making vulching almost non existant. Git the idea? If not i have an AW CD i can send you i think. Ill look
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Originally posted by Montezuma
Something like this is what needs to be in the little "furball' corner of the DA.
I was thinking about that meself. But while it would be the easiest change for HTC to make. Im not sure if policeing it would be possible. Maybe using the DA server for the (Fighter Town) or what ever catchy name someone could think of, would be a good comprimise? New Map with the lay out discribed in previous replies,(Perhaps one of the many quality maps some of the players have designed for H2H)... a few modifications and presto change_O. It would be simple to do. As for Dueling ONLY (1 v 1) I would think the H2H feature would suffice for this type of format.
HT...Please at least give it some thought when time allows ya. ty
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Just make an area of uncapurable bases, maybe just 2 bases for each country. Wouldn't affect the price of beer for the gangers, they can still go milkrun all they want.
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Originally posted by Montezuma
Something like this is what needs to be in the little "furball' corner of the DA.
A1-A2
It is the unsaid FFA area in the DA.
Mugz I like your Idea. I just dont think anyone would use this arena. I like the MA. I like it the way it is right now. As far as the fights go! Sure some nights its hard to find a good fight but thats not the case always. I think this new arena would detract from most if not all MA fighting and what you would be left with it a bunch of guys on all sides trying to stay as far away from one another as posible while they capture bases.
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
A1-A2
It is the unsaid FFA area in the DA.
Mugz I like your Idea. I just dont think anyone would use this arena. I like the MA. I like it the way it is right now. As far as the fights go! Sure some nights its hard to find a good fight but thats not the case always. I think this new arena would detract from most if not all MA fighting and what you would be left with it a bunch of guys on all sides trying to stay as far away from one another as posible while they capture bases.
Well actually you have addressed you own questions/answers.
Yeah. I think it would get used more than the Da and more than the CT.
"I just dont think anyone would use this arena."
"I think this new arena would detract from most if not all MA fighting"
Morph you are confusing me as to what you think. Or maybe you are confused. So i have to guess that you are actually unsure if it will get used.
The more we discuss the idea the more i become certian that it will indeed draw more players from the MA than the DA and the CT combined.
"what you would be left with it a bunch of guys on all sides trying to stay as far away from one another as possible while they capture bases.
This goes completly against the natural instinct of any competitive person. And 99.9% of all players are competitive by nature. The "Base Grabbers" are grabbing bases to win the War. They are playing the War Sim. When another country begins to be a clear threat to win the war, the other two countries always attack them to try to keep them from winning. Presto...the fights are born. This is exactly what happens currently. Honestly, I don’t know why this is so hard to understand. There was a Fighter Town in Airwarrior and a very substantial percentage of the player base lived in AW FT as compared to AH CT or DA. There were usually from 20 to 50 players in AW FT while the Main arena's (There were 2 of them) ETO (European Theater of Operations) and the Big Pac (Bic Pacific) usually had a 400 player max capacity combined, with usually only 180 to 280 players in attendance Combined. This puts 15 to 20% of the total player base in the Fighter Town. I just looked in the Aces High MA, CT and DA as I am typing this reply Sunday June 13 9:04 PM est. MA has 320 The Beta has 120 players the CT has 11 and the DA has 1 player. Asuming that most of the beta players would be in the MA. This would calculate to roughly a wee tad over 3% of the total players online are utilizing the CT and DA collectively as I am typing this reply. As far as i can tell. HTC is wasting money on the Bandwidth it takes to keep the CT and the DA running as compared to the usage it is getting.
Many guys in AW would fly a few nights a week in FT to brush up on fighting and just enjoy the change of pace grinding it out and not worrying about bases being lost. This kept the fights in the sky not on the ground. This isn’t anything new. It just would be new for AH. And it was used in AW much more than the CT or DA is used in AH.
Yes I do think it would get much more usage than HTC current CT and DA...As i also think it would actually be a better move for HTC were as economy is concerned.
Gooday mate
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Basicly Mugz... And I am going to put this as simple as posible here. I like the MA the way it is. I dont think we need another arena. I like to do many things while I am on line. Take a base once in a while, fly fighters, fly Jabos, do some GV stuff and even fly bombers still. After all Bombers are what I started out with here for the most part.
Frankly I dont like the idea of having to jump between arenas when I can do it all for the most part in the MA we have now. Not that I would. I honestly wouldnt use this Fighter Arena even if HT did give it to us. If I want a 1v1 I go to the DA. If I want a free for all I go to the MA. Simple as that.
Saying it would get used more than the DA or CT even is really just speculation. But thats all one can do at this point. But I doubt it would be the case where you would see it be used more than the DA or even the CT. Dont get me wrong. The concept is a good one. But the people IMHO want many many bad guys to shoot at and they really dont care what these bad guys are trying to do for the most part. A red guy is a red guy. A land grabber is no different to me than someone who is just out to fight in that they can and do shoot back (for the most part) and I can do the same.
I should have cut to the Chase before... But I will now. I wouldnt use this Fighter Arena you want just because I enjoy bouncing missions, deffending bases and also attacking them. Sometimes I am out for just a fight. But for the most part it is born from the fact that I am either attacking or deffending. What would there be left to defend or attack with out base captures for me? Not much besides the fact i'd have to defend myself and attack the other guy. So Im not confused, and dont confuse what I am saying with something else. Its really just that simple and needs no reading into.
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So i have to guess that you are actually unsure if it will get used.
Almost positive it wouldn't get the usage you are thinking.
The more we discuss the idea the more i become certian that it will indeed draw more players from the MA than the DA and the CT combined.
I really doubt you'd see a large number of players from the MA heading in there. They are in the MA because they enjoy the enviorment. They can do anything they wish at will. AND wouldnt need to change arenas if they wanted to take a base after they got done flying a fighter.
As far as the DA goes. People are in there because they want to fight it out or learn. The numbers in the DA are next to nil.... As of lately. So the gains from the DA would be just that... Next to nothing. The vast majority of those who use the DA are doing so to improve their 1v1 fighter skills. If what you speak of is an FFA enviorment, this would not apeal to them what so ever.
The CT... Well most in there enjoy the limited plane set. And more so the historical aspect of the CT itself is what brings most in there to begin with. So again, I highly doubt you'd gain many from there either.
So what we have left is the occasional guy who is tired of the MA once in a while and figures he'll try out the Fighter Arena. I doubt there'd be many doing this because if one thinks about it, there really isnt much you can get bored with in the MA. Fighters, Jabos, Bombers, GV's, CV's... The list can go on and on.
As far as i can tell. HTC is wasting money on the Bandwidth it takes to keep the CT and the DA running as compared to the usage it is getting.
Well thats awful naive of you to say this Mugz. Honestly, people use this two arens for an entirely different purpose than they do with the MA. The CT is a more historical (as I said before) laid back if you will setting. People use it, but it surely doesnt get used more than the MA. Thats just a fact. Although I disagree again with your idea of taking it out of the game.
The DA offers many things to many players. You can practice just about ALL things ACM and alike. You can settle feuds or just go in there to have fun. And lastly you can go in there and head to A1 and A2 as most already do and enjoy a great little FFA battle. So the DA is a GREAT change of pace from the MA if a change of pace is what you are looking for.
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You know what... I just notice the title of this thread is really a question. Shows how much I over look things at time. :D
Why?
I mean why would you entitle this thread as a question?
Could it be because many who are in there right now get upset with fuel porking? I say this becaues I've seen it happen.(Players getting upset because others want to play strat games) OR could it be because players in there right now get upset because you guys are in there taking bases?
Just asking Mugz. Im curious really though what EXACTLY brought this idea of yours on. Not just because of a few guys not liking land grabbers I am almost certain of that. I think there is more and I'm anxious now to find out.
Let me tell ya something you probably already know. Once AH1 dies, the MA we have now in AH1 will be a mirror image to that of what we will have in AH2. This I know for a fact. Humans are creatures of habbit. The habbits we have aquiered in the game will only carry over to AH2. We are always going to have land grabbers, always going to have furballers, always going to have fight wrecking fuel porkers. (thought I'd slip that last one one in there :D) I enjoy to contradict myself, it gives you something to quote. lol :D
The MA you know and LOVE is coming to AH2 soon Mugz. Fear not.
I hope you are reading ALL of what I wrote. This way there can be no "confusion". ;)
Ok I'm done for now :) Quote away bud :D
CHEERS!
Morph:D
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Originally posted by Morpheus
If it were used, I think this new arena would detract from most if not all MA fighting what you would be left with, if it were used, is a bunch of guys on all sides trying to stay as far away from one another as possible while they capture bases.
Think he just left out the "if it were used" part.
Originally posted by Mugzeee
As far as i can tell. HTC is wasting money on the Bandwidth it takes to keep the CT and the DA running as compared to the usage it is getting.
I'm pretty sure HTC knows what he is doing and doesn't require your advice. The CT is exclusively for certain (historical) plane matchups, it suffers from a limited planeset, the DA is for practice period. The MA is where the most targets can be found so naturally fighters will go there.
We attempt to create good furballs in the MA between bases in close proximity or CV to bases as the case may be. All the 'war winning' stuff is ignored.
Plain and simple I doubt HT wants to split up the players as you suggest (although I don't and wouldn't try to speak for him). The beauty of this game is the large amount of players in one arena and the fact that it works well as far as lag, text chat, voice, etc... goes. IMHO.
In closing, put me down for a NO vote.
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Dipstick you are my new Hero I think.
Shhhhh Dont tell Wadke I said that :p
It took me 3 whole in depth posts to say the same thing you just did in a few short senteces.
Well done and well said.
Morph.
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Since AH2 is able to have the large maps, it's quite possible to create a map for the DA that has both an area for a Fightertown and for dueling. Kill two birds with one stone.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
Dipstick you are my new Hero I think.
Shhhhh Dont tell Wadke I said that :p
It took me 3 whole in depth posts to say the same thing you just did in a few short senteces.
Well done and well said.
Morph.
Hehehe... well thanks Morph and I WILL tell Wadke you said that. ;)
Now all we need is Beet1e to come in and say we are just a bunch of backslappers and this thread is done. :lol
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Originally posted by DipStick
Think he just left out the "if it were used" part.
I'm pretty sure HTC knows what he is doing and doesn't require your advice. The CT is exclusively for certain (historical) plane matchups, it suffers from a limited planeset, the DA is for practice period. The MA is where the most targets can be found so naturally fighters will go there.
We attempt to create good furballs in the MA between bases in close proximity or CV to bases as the case may be. All the 'war winning' stuff is ignored.
Plain and simple I doubt HT wants to split up the players as you suggest (although I don't and wouldn't try to speak for him). The beauty of this game is the large amount of players in one arena and the fact that it works well as far as lag, text chat, voice, etc... goes. IMHO.
In closing, put me down for a NO vote.
...I pulled the quote directly from Morphs statment posted on 06-13-2004 11:59 PM of this thread. Un-refuteable.
Or are you implying that he Means to say "If it were used"?
Either way Morph has a long history of saying things that he latter has to.....well....lets just say revise.
This is a place for chatting and or shareing. It was a Proposal and a question to the community in general. Morph started the personal flame fest cause...well hes that way.
As far as HTC knowing what they are doing? They are already spending their money on a few servers that get very little use. This is factuall and can be proved every day at any time of the day of every week of the month by going to the current arenas and taking count. Then do the math.
I just looked
MA=62 players
Beta=21
CT=1
TA=0
DA=0
Thats like 1.25% attending the Alternitive arenas at this time?
Yes im combining the Beta and the MA as 1 arena. So it could be off a little. I think its a safe to bet little more than .5%
Again..this idea is NOTHING NEW. I has been done in recent history and it was Much More sucessfull in respect to Percentages of usage than the Aces High DA and CT combined. I Was a part of it for a long time. Some 5 years or so. As have many other players that played Airwarrior and are now here at Aces High. Ask HT about the influx of players that came from Aces High....several hundred. They left because the game was shut down by EA corp. Not because they were unhappy with it. In fact most felt very betrayed by the new owners (EA) that Killed our life. :D In fact HT might already know this to be true. Word has it...he was a big part of the development of Airwarrior in the latter days. He would have to confirm this of course.
As far as HTC wanting or needing my advise.
Well...that would be for them to decide. Im simply commenting on what i see and making an observation as to wether i think its money wisely spent. Im dang sure they WONT take my advise or ideas if they think its not worth it.
I wasnt asking them to.
I was throwing an idea out to the community.
The idea is FAR from new. Airwarrior had it for a Looong time. And it did get used percentage wise more than the AH CT and DA Combined.
As far as HTC wanting or not wanting to split up players. Havent they already induced a split by offering the DA, and the Ct.
You said your self that the CT was created for guys that had different interest in mind.
As far as speaking for HTC. Im speaking evidence that is for all to see.
OUT
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If the present AH2 anti pork model (or something similar) is retained I cannot see the need for a separate fighter town based upon the supposition that pork and grab is "anti fighter".
Fighters can find combat and be reasonably equipped to engage (FBM to one side)
If pork is not an issue then the only remaining factor is horde based. ie massive local disparity of numbers. This can also happen in a fighter town envrionment.
Where I have seen separate FT arena's elsewhere they have ended up no more (in fact less) popular than the CT is now.
I am not saying that the Duelling arena could not be enhanced............I think it could........... for me it could be many things.
Why a separate training and duelling environment? wouldn't there be a saving if they could be one?
Training, practicing, duelling, testing in all rides could all be fullfilled in a large multipurpose arena where many "needs" are met.
Given the talent of some of some of our terrain builders, would it not be worth while looking at a design that met these needs?
What would be those needs? well i can suggest my thoughts
Paired Dueling fields (as present set to various alts)
GV City and forest
Free fighter zone with heavily defended (anti vulch bases)
PT pond (why not)
Basic fighter training with a mix of land, sea and air starts.
Basic Bomber training with mix of land, sea and air starts and some ring targets. (also a torp practice area)
Basic GV training.
Race tracks (pylon and terrain)
Test run (standard piece of terrain for testing stuff...needs thought)
IF ToD allows drones then some could be added to those training areas that would benefit.
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
You know what... I just notice the title of this thread is really a question. Shows how much I over look things at time.
Why?
I mean why would you entitle this thread as a question?
Could it be because many who are in there right now get upset with fuel porking? I say this becaues I've seen it happen.(Players getting upset because others want to play strat games) OR could it be because players in there right now get upset because you guys are in there taking bases?
Just asking Mugz. Im curious really though what EXACTLY brought this idea of yours on. Not just because of a few guys not liking land grabbers I am almost certain of that. I think there is more and I'm anxious now to find out.
Let me tell ya something you probably already know. Once AH1 dies, the MA we have now in AH1 will be a mirror image to that of what we will have in AH2. This I know for a fact. Humans are creatures of habbit. The habbits we have aquiered in the game will only carry over to AH2. We are always going to have land grabbers, always going to have furballers, always going to have fight wrecking fuel porkers. (thought I'd slip that last one one in there :D) I enjoy to contradict myself, it gives you something to quote. lol
The MA you know and LOVE is coming to AH2 soon Mugz. Fear not.
I hope you are reading ALL of what I wrote. This way there can be no "confusion".
Ok I'm done for now Quote away bud
CHEERS!
Morph:D
Rofl... why would i pose a proposal as a question?
ummmm because i wanted to get a feel for wether or not guys would like this FT? And perhaps give HT something to think about?
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THATS IT!!!!!
Originally posted by MoRphEuS
Just asking Mugz. Im curious really though what EXACTLY brought this idea of yours on. Not just because of a few guys not liking land grabbers I am almost certain of that. I think there is more and I'm anxious now to find out.
As for what brought this on......If you had went to the Links i included at the Opening of this thread.
Oh shucks...let me quote my self :D
"The two links below are examples of how the community feels about the issues. I have read countless posts and replies on these very issues. I mean. When this issue comes it rolls like wildfire. players are very passionate about this issue.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/foru...referrerid=7566
http://www.hitechcreations.com/foru...referrerid=7566
PS. I still have you as a NO vote . even if you change your mind..Im keeping you as a no vote. :D
hmmm ,would that be a "hanging chad"...or a "dimpled chad"? :D
Here is an excerpt from the first. BTW you replied to it yourself..5th reply. I know..you prolly over looked it. But "Boy....i...say Boy. Pay attention son" These discussions are hard to keep coherent if you don't read ALL of the material..
Its entitled Well, The game i loved is dead and gone.
Originally posted by Urchin
Never to return I think. Absolutely no emphasis on A2A combat at all. None. The only A2A combat I've seen since I've come back from my latest "break" was incidental to a large horde trying to take a base from a relatively small number of people. Is it possible to be "successful" in this environment? Sure. It is possible to have any fun fights in this environment... no, not really.
Same old stale N1K,Spit, La7, P51 planeset, with the occasional something else thrown in for spice. I don't think I'll be coming back for AH1, but I'll keep paying the subscription and waiting for AH2. Good luck all, and to HT & company, thanks for making what used to be a great game. I guess it just outgrew me.
The second link is from a thread you started entitled "What would you change and why"?
Here are some replies from that thread.
Originally posted by Westy
I'd remove countries, abolish squads and banish icons. I'd make the MA a 100% "free for all" deathmatch bowl!
Originally posted by lazs2
closer fileds would fix everything... it is possible to have good fights between two distant fields but pretty rare... close fields allways have good fites as do CV's which are... in affect.... close fields.
lazs
Originally posted by MOSQ
I agree with Laz on this one. The furball island of early war planes on Ozkansas is great fun!
Originally posted by Furious
Put an end to land grabbing hordes and install an actual front.
Have the arena close fields not directly involved in the fight. Say 2-3 sectors wide by 3-4 sectors deep in.
Originally posted by eskimo2
The most fun that I've ever had in AH has been in a few odd CT maps that have bases 4 to 10 miles apart in certain areas.
I'd like to see all bases 6 to 9 miles apart.
eskimo
Originally posted by Hornet
end the landgrab.
Originally posted by Mugzeee
Why? Isnt that what the game is about?
Originally posted by Zazen13
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me the fundamental underlying premise of the game "Aces" "HIGH" is a combat flight simulator using WW2 era aircraft. If land grabbing were the underlying premise it might be called "Global" "Conquest" or something. THe land grabbing aspect just provides a context for the perpetuation of the airiel conflict, nothing more.
The land grabbing is just a means to the end, the end being the airiel combat. That is why maps come and go, bases come and go, but the fighting remains largely the same and continues in basically the same form without interuption ad infinitum.
Zazen
Originally posted by Mugzeee
So your basing your opinion on the "Name" of the game? I mean really. To think AH is a product that was specifically and only designed for Virtual Fighter “Aces” to duel or furball seems silly to me.
Seems like a ton of work that HTC has went through to accomplish the "means" you speak of. Eeee gads man, just make a map with 2 bases and Duke it out. On the contrary, i am more inclined to believe they had much more in mind. They added Bombers to the game along with a complex strategic re-supply system. Factories, Cities, Convoy's, trains, and anything else i may have forgotten to include. Oh yes, there are (Tank’s) Did I say Tank’s? Hmmm don’t see how (Tanks) fit in “airiel combat”. They developed a World "WAR" Two simulator. Intentionally or not they developed a War Sim nonetheless. I think the developers had a larger audience in mind. They developed a game that would draw from at least two mindsets or interests. WWII wana be Fighter “Aces”, and those that would like to be a little more in depth with the WAR game. Therefore the "end" of the "means" is $$$$$$. And that is marketing savvy. A thoughtful approach would have to conclude that AH1 or AH2 is a WAR sim by design. Which of course includes both types of players. Land Grab is here to stay. And actually is what the game is all about as per design.
PS. I still think that HTC should create an Arena strictly for Dog Fighting. This way the debate would end. And the "Aces" could really prove their metal against other "Aces" Not against Bombers and Heavy-laden fighters trying to dive on a ground target. However, the crying would still continue. Because the "Aces" would complain that there aren’t enough noobs to pad their score.
That should be enough to answer your question as to "What brought this on"
HT Please dont ban me from the BBS for using too much space. :)
Thats the last time i do someone elses homework. hehe
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Since AH2 is able to have the large maps, it's quite possible to create a map for the DA that has both an area for a Fightertown and for dueling. Kill two birds with one stone.
ack-ack
I agree.. But it beggs the policeing question?
Maybe an invisable force field... dividing the map 25% on one side 75% on the other? Like the one that Blows us into a million peices when going off the edge of the map in trinity? hmm wonder if that could be done?
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50k high mountains ?
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Originally posted by Tilt
If the present AH2 anti pork model (or something similar) is retained I cannot see the need for a separate fighter town based upon the supposition that pork and grab is "anti fighter".
Fighters can find combat and be reasonably equipped to engage (FBM to one side)
If pork is not an issue then the only remaining factor is horde based. ie massive local disparity of numbers. This can also happen in a fighter town envrionment.
Where I have seen separate FT arena's elsewhere they have ended up no more (in fact less) popular than the CT is now.
I am not saying that the Duelling arena could not be enhanced............I think it could........... for me it could be many things.
Why a separate training and duelling environment? wouldn't there be a saving if they could be one?
Training, practicing, duelling, testing in all rides could all be fullfilled in a large multipurpose arena where many "needs" are met.
Given the talent of some of some of our terrain builders, would it not be worth while looking at a design that met these needs?
What would be those needs? well i can suggest my thoughts
Paired Dueling fields (as present set to various alts)
GV City and forest
Free fighter zone with heavily defended (anti vulch bases)
PT pond (why not)
Basic fighter training with a mix of land, sea and air starts.
Basic Bomber training with mix of land, sea and air starts and some ring targets. (also a torp practice area)
Basic GV training.
Race tracks (pylon and terrain)
Test run (standard piece of terrain for testing stuff...needs thought)
IF ToD allows drones then some could be added to those training areas that would benefit.
All good observations Tilt.
I was thinking on the Blue text.
the Fighter Town of Airwarrior was pretty even. Players would take it on themselves to switch country to keep numbers even.
The FT could have an auto country select. I know of a lot of online games in the past have had this feature. Probably not hard to write into code. But i wouldnt know. This would keep things in check and the fights relatively even. Would make for some awesome fighting i think :)
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Originally posted by Tilt
50k high mountains ?
heheh That would suffice. :)
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Well after this weekend I wish we had the choice even more.
AHII - A good fight going on attacking A2, there were some great fights for 10 mins or so, but some rook had to kill the fighter hangers. OK so capture the base already. Nope they just kept killing the fight. Worst part is that there wasn't any troops to be had for two sectors. Total maroons.
So I tried to find a decent fight elsewhere. No dice. Any fight was at least a sector or farther apart. So I pissed off my girlfriend to fly around and sight see. So I begrudginly left AHII to hopefully find a fight in AHI,
Well, The rooks were getting ganged at every corner, and while this is fun for a while, again, flying into fights with 5 v 1 or worse only to get hoed by the first radish to point his nose at me got very boring.
So I logged off in disgust, thinking this game really sucks unless your a tool shed battler.
And anyone who dosn't notice that it is YOU laz who is doing his best to create this rift and thus doing the most harm to AH is blind.
So really HT it isn't Lazs so much as it is something missing, something your game has lost for some of the players. For some reason you are unwilling to see this. Maybe you just don't want the fighter types. I don't know. I know your busy with AHII but this issue is real, it's your choice to ignore it, it's your choice to pretend it doesn't exist, it's your game. Not trying to piss you off or start a fight, just sharing my opinion.
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Originally posted by mars01
Well after this weekend I wish we had the choice even more.
AHII - A good fight going on attacking A2, there were some great fights for 10 mins or so, but some rook had to kill the fighter hangers. OK so capture the base already. Nope they just kept killing the fight. Worst part is that there wasn't any troops to be had for two sectors. Total maroons.
So I tried to find a decent fight elsewhere. No dice. Any fight was at least a sector or farther apart. So I pissed off my girlfriend to fly around and sight see. So I begrudginly left AHII to hopefully find a fight in AHI,
Well, The rooks were getting ganged at every corner, and while this is fun for a while, again, flying into fights with 5 v 1 or worse only to get hoed by the first radish to point his nose at me got very boring.
So I logged off in disgust, thinking this game really sucks unless your a tool shed battler.
So really HT it isn't Lazs so much as it is something missing, something your game has lost for some of the players. For some reason you are unwilling to see this. Maybe you just don't want the fighter types. I don't know. I know your busy with AHII but this issue is real, it's your choice to ignore it, it's your choice to pretend it doesn't exist, it's your game. Not trying to piss you off or start a fight, just sharing my opinion.
As for the lack of Good fights this weekend in AH2. I too found that AH2 is making the full transistion even though it isnt even released as of yet.
I do belive that the switch over is going to be pretty smooth for the most part.
As for the Choice. I would welcome it.
Funny thing.
Many (Not ALL mind you) ..but most of the ney sayers of the proposed "Fighter Only" Arena. Are guys that i could go on for days quoting from the BBS as saying "You guys just dont like change" on subject after subject. Ironic isnt it? But i have used up my Quotation limit i think. :D.
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If I were not completely mad and generally silly
I would give you my advice upon the subject, willy-nilly;
I would show you in a moment how to grapple with the question,
And you'd really be astonished at the force of my suggestion.
On the subject I shall write you a most valuable letter,
Full of excellent suggestions when I feel a little better,
But at present I'm afraid I am as mad as any hatter,
So I'll keep 'em to myself, for my opinion doesn't matter!
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AYE Beetle! STFU! LOL!:D
Nah beetle let it out man!
It feels so much betten its all out in the "pot"! :D
MugZ did my homework for me :rolleyes: :lol :rofl
Pweeaz MugZ. ANd who you callin boy? You old brick Layer!
sorry im being a dickweed now.
I personaly hate this idea. Put me down as a Big N O.
Chizzzzzel it in stone! N O
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PS- MugZ... You know I luvz ya man :D
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
I agree.. But it beggs the policeing question?
Maybe an invisable force field... dividing the map 25% on one side 75% on the other? Like the one that Blows us into a million peices when going off the edge of the map in trinity? hmm wonder if that could be done?
You let the community police itself, which it is quite capable of doing.
ack-ack
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It would cost nothing to have an early war area within the large maps that would allow only early war planes to take off. It could have a seperate reset and 50k mountains arpound it to keep out the late war guys who couldn't control themselves. the fields would never be more than 3/4 sector apart
It would allow those who don't care about resets or late war planes that much and who only had an hour or two to play to have a good time simply.... fighting.
if it got used a lot... great... if it didn't get used some times... so what?
lazs
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i always thought they could make a way to spread the years out over a week
i mean a large map generaly doesnt get reset, unless rooks have there 300v100v100 nights....:p
first 2 days = 1939-1940
next 2 days 1940-1942
next 2 days 1942-1944
last day of the map 1945...
?
edit: or PERK EVERYTHING from 1942ish onwards? :eek: :lol but that would mean more models of planes would be needed, ie the sucky first versions of the B17s or p38s etc....:)