Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Captain Virgil Hilts on June 10, 2004, 11:10:26 PM
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John Kerry is on the wall of the war museum in Ho Chi Minh City. He's honored for his help in defeating the U.S. in Vietnam.
By the way, the source of the photos and information on the museum is a member of the Swift Boat Veterans group. While you may not like the site, it is kind of hard to ignore the fact that the North Vietnamese Communists honor John Kerry on the wall of their war museum as a major contributor to the defeat of the United States.
Anyone have anything that proves this to be false?
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http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=20040531140357545
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Yes, that's it. The link didn't take. Probably a hiccup in the net, massive thunderstorms here in the area.
But what do you think of it?
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I'm not sure it matters one way or the other. Kerry protested against the war. Ending the war was as beneficial to the Vietnamese as it was to the U.S.
I don't see the controversy.
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Does this mean he's guilty of "giving aid and comfort" to the enemy? He's entitled to his own opinions of course, but there are a lot of Vietnam veterans who disapprove of Kerry's actions.
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If dissent equates to aid and comfort, we're going to have to find another country to live in.
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Originally posted by Sandman
If dissent equates to aid and comfort, we're going to have to find another country to live in.
On the otherhand, he was wearing the uniform of his country, being paid to serve it, and after the fact, running for public office on the basis of being a "war hero".
As a private citizen, he's entitled to all the free speech and dissent he can stand.
But as a soldier, he's under sworn oath to the Constitution and the CIC, he has his orders, and he's sworn his loyalty. If he did in fact protest the war while in uniform and while an active member of the regular forces OR the reserve, then that changes everything. Oh, and if he lied under oath to Congress while in that uniform, that's a major problem as well.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
But as a soldier, he's under sworn oath to the Constitution and the CIC, he has his orders, and he's sworn his loyalty. If he did in fact protest the war while in uniform and while an active member of the regular forces OR the reserve, then that changes everything. Oh, and if he lied under oath to Congress while in that uniform, that's a major problem as well.
Protest while in uniform while on active duty? That's difficult to believe.
As far as participating in political protest, active duty are indeed citizens and the Constitution still applies. They are free to demonstrate like any other citizen.
Lied under oath? Got proof?
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Originally posted by Sandman
Protest while in uniform while on active duty? That's difficult to believe.
As far as participating in political protest, active duty are indeed citizens and the Constitution still applies. They are free to demonstrate like any other citizen.
Lied under oath? Got proof?
I said "IF". There are many who question not only Kerry's testimony to Congress, but also reports he wrote while on duty in Vietnam. This includes those who served directly with Kerry, in the incidents he cited in testimony under oath.
Political protest is a little different than directly protesting military action.
Again, I said "IF", as in I've heard that he did, and that he didn't. hence the "IF".
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Political protest is a little different than directly protesting military action.
Not at all different. Military action is political.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Again, I said "IF", as in I've heard that he did, and that he didn't. hence the "IF".
You heard that he did... and he didn't? You're such a flip-flopper.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Sandman
Not at all different. Military action is political.
It may be if you are in uniform and on active duty. At least at one point, the Uniform Code of Military Justice did at one time establish a difference, or so a few members of the military told me. I don't know.
They declined my offer of my services. Something about 3 knee surgeries before the age of 18. They said they made enough health problems on their own and did not need me to bring any in. So I did not serve and as such I am not an expert on the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Far from it.
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my opinion on the subject is this. John Kerry did more for North Veitnam after he left service than he did for the US while on active duty.
Alot of PEACE activists will never agnowlege that more people in that region died beciase of "peace" than ever in the entire conflict. JUST LIKE IRAQ....more Iraqies died and would have died under sadam than if the coalitian had invaded. OR if the US pulls out now.
I'm not calling John Kerry a traitor but I will say he did more for the enemy (in terms of publicity) than he ever did for the US Navy.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I'm not sure it matters one way or the other. Kerry protested against the war. Ending the war was as beneficial to the Vietnamese as it was to the U.S.
I don't see the controversy.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Making political statements of any kind, while in uniform, is frowned upon by the government.
You could ask Douglas MacArthur about it, if he were available for comment.
Regards, Shuckins/Leggern
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I don't see the controversy.
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The first war we lost on purpose and Kerry did his part, thats for sure. Im not the least bit surprised you dont see the controversy.
What role did you play to help lose that war?
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I will say this.
The war ending at the time and in the manner that it did was certainly beneficial to the NORTH Vietnamese. I'm not so sure it was very beneficial to the SOUTH Vietnamese or the United States.
While it is not hard to see the benefits for the North Vietnamese communists, I'm having a difficult time seeing the upside for the United States or the South Vietnamese.
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Much ado about nothing.
Below the photograph of John Kerry are explanatory placards in English, French, Vietnamese, and Chinese. The English placard reads:
"Mr. Do Muoi, Secretary General of the Vietnamese Communist Party met with Congressman and Veterans Delegation in Vietnam (July 15-18, 1993)"
The picture has nothing to do with aiding the enemy. I wonder who else's picture is up there? VN was visited by McClain too. I wonder if his pic is on the wall? Any bets?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Much ado about nothing.
The picture has nothing to do with aiding the enemy. I wonder who else's picture is up there? VN was visited by McClain too. I wonder if his pic is on the wall? Any bets?
McClain isn't running for President.
McClain did not aid the enemy.
Liberals are always doing this with every issue.
Well MT Johnny Jones doesn't live here, now go to your room!!
Perhaps if you had heard that more often during your formative years you would have come out normal!
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Much ado about nothing.
The picture has nothing to do with aiding the enemy. I wonder who else's picture is up there? VN was visited by McClain too. I wonder if his pic is on the wall? Any bets?
I think the complaint has to do with the caption(s) under the photo commending Kerry for his involvement in the antiwar movement which the communists feel aided their efforts.
By the way, it's McCain, not McClain. It is also McCain who is among those who reported that Kerry's accusations against U.S. soldiers was played repeatedly to POW's like McCain.
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Originally posted by storch
McClain isn't running for President.
McClain did not aid the enemy.
Liberals are always doing this with every issue.
Well MT Johnny Jones doesn't live here, now go to your room!!
Perhaps if you had heard that more often during your formative years you would have come out normal!
Doing what with issues? Pointing out thier idiocy? OK, guilty.
The caption says NOTHING about helping or aiding the enemy. It is a 1993 visit. I'm pretty sure the war was over by then.... yep it was.
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We REALLY needed to be in South Vietnam too!! Those damn dominos...
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Doing what with issues? Pointing out thier idiocy? OK, guilty.
The caption says NOTHING about helping or aiding the enemy. It is a 1993 visit. I'm pretty sure the war was over by then.... yep it was.
The photo may have been taken in '93. The aid and comfort occurred during the execution of the Vietnam War. Surely this couldn't be lost upon even you!!
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what these hippies wont admit is the FACT that more people died in the "peace" of veitnam than in the war itself. Its a sad fact that we left veitnam and mass murder took place. I suppose they want the same thing to happen in Iraq. They want to hate bush and call this an unjustified war....fair enough.....but it is a war and when there political hatred gets in the way of their judgment and they would rather short change the troops in Iraq than make it look like the effort is working they are doing a great disservice to themselvs....to America....to the troops....and to the people of Iraq
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Originally posted by storch
The photo may have been taken in '93. The aid and comfort occurred during the execution of the Vietnam War. Surely this couldn't be lost upon even you!!
..... resisting the gutter ... resisting the gutter.
I guess staying on topic is too much for you too. Shirley, you can accept the fact that a picture of a visiting Senator in 1993 has nothing to do with aiding the enemy during the war.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Much ado about nothing.
The picture has nothing to do with aiding the enemy. I wonder who else's picture is up there? VN was visited by McClain too. I wonder if his pic is on the wall? Any bets?
Stop pointing out the facts to the stupid people!!! They were getting all excited and now you've stopped their fun.
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I believe MT, that the members of our generation will still be beating each other over the head with the Vietnam issue when we're all toothless and in wheelchairs.
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An interesting site. Statistics about the Vietnam War (http://www.vhfcn.org/stat.htm)
...Gunslinger, are you speaking of the genecide commited by the khmer rouge in Cambodia?
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Originally posted by GScholz
So voicing your opinion against a war you feel is unjust is considered "providing aid and comfort to the enemy". Land of the free ring a bell? I guess you guys do a lot of marching and heiling when you're not spewing your hate here on the BBS.
Sure Freedom of speech....If I walk into a crowded theater and yell FIRE and people get trampled to death I am responsible for their deaths.
An interesting site. Statistics about the Vietnam War
...Gunslinger, are you speaking of the genecide commited by the khmer rouge in Cambodia?
Those deaths and many others caused by the pull out of US troops.
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See Gunslinger, if you'd just called __________ a traitor to start with, you wouldn't have to take watermelon off GSholtz.
Les
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Originally posted by Yeager
The first war we lost on purpose and Kerry did his part, thats for sure. Im not the least bit surprised you dont see the controversy.
What role did you play to help lose that war?
I did what any ten year old would do. Go ahead. Blame me for the loss. :aok
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Kerry even illlegally negotiated with the N. Vietnamese, while in France in the early 70's.
I have known 3 people who's families lives where destroyed when the communists took over. They lost everything, as did millions others I'm sure.
Kerry gave the North hope that they could win the war, even though they began suffering losses that they could not continue to endure.
Lot's of people here know more about this war than myself, but I know enough to feel that Kerry did help the North.
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Seriously Yeager, how big is the stick in your arse?