Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 68DevilM on June 11, 2004, 03:25:34 PM
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why do we have worthless planes like the p40?
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Stanky.
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P40 isn't worthless, it provides a variety of choice for the people who like a challenge. or like the historical aspect of the P40 models. ( YMMV )
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
why do we have worthless planes like the p40?
there are no worthless planes - only worthless pilots.
:aok
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I get to feeling really "Worthless" when somone like Shane or Furball shoots me down with a P40 while I'm in a LA7.:eek:
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wow
I take offense.
grab yourself an la7 and I'll show you how worthless P40s are
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
why do we have worthless planes like the p40?
what????
P40, no way!
BTW, I've had a blast in the 202, super, super manueverable, and it's fun to get it on in the clown plane, think alt.
The reason some planes aren't used very much is because you gotta actually "think out of the box" to fly them. If I wasn't so lazy, I'd probably be flying them more.
I think AH2 is going to change that bag o' tricks somewhat too. Especially that Ki, someone was eating my lunch in it the other day, I haven't flown it yet, but I'm going to check it out tonight.
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somone has yet to prove to me there is a use for the 202
other than chest pounding by decent sticks when they land a few kills in 1.
i mean it has no chance aginst the hurri 1, and spit 1. they can both turn circles around it, and zoom climb better from what i have found. arent those the only "historical" match-ups we have for it?
IIRC it spent alot of time over the water preying on defensless planes like torp bombers and such (liek that jap plane we have that only carries torps).
would be nice to see the 202 get the cannon gun package i have read about, and seen posted here.
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Originally posted by JB73
somone has yet to prove to me there is a use for the 202
other than chest pounding by decent sticks when they land a few kills in 1.
i mean it has no chance aginst the hurri 1, and spit 1. they can both turn circles around it, and zoom climb better from what i have found. arent those the only "historical" match-ups we have for it?
IIRC it spent alot of time over the water preying on defensless planes like torp bombers and such (liek that jap plane we have that only carries torps).
would be nice to see the 202 get the cannon gun package i have read about, and seen posted here.
Hmm, I think it's fun to fly around, but you are correct that the guns are weak. A little better guns would make alot of difference.
I think for a gunnery ace, which I'm not, it would be a good choice.
I guess I like that it is sorta fast and turns so well. I think performance wise it's much better than the Hurri And Spit models you compare it to. JMHO, though.
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I've landed 7 kills in the C202, its not worthless though I suspect your skills are... :aok
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Originally posted by Shane
there are no worthless planes - only worthless pilots.
:aok
shane nailed the thread on the head.
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Sorry 73, you mentioned maybe the only 2 planes that can own the 202. I take out Spit5-9s, Hurri II, La5s not to mention the many other planes not seen often in the MA. The guns are not weak, they just wont kill anything with one burst. Imagine trying to have to work to maintain a gun solution. That's the fun for me in 202s and 109Es and 110C4bs.
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Originally posted by JB73
i mean it has no chance aginst the hurri 1, and spit 1. they can both turn circles around it, and zoom climb better from what i have found. arent those the only "historical" match-ups we have for it?
You're kidding, right?
Fly the CT when they have a North African setup running. A Hurricane Mk.I is utterly outclassed by the 202. Moreover, the Spitfire Mk.I isn't much better off. There is a significant speed and climb advantage for the 202, and it's maneuverability is such that you can take advantage of mistakes very quickly. Despite the weak guns, you can do very well against the BoB duo using a C.202.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
why do we have worthless planes like the p40?
LOL! I often wonder that myself, especially as most will fly the P51/LA7/Spit übertrio no matter what new planes are introduced.
I guess the P40 is a piece of crap. Colonel F. Gabreski certainly thought so (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52406).
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I still remember a 202 flight from long ago. I took off of Furball island on the NDIsles map to investigate a large clump of red dots heading south, just east of the island. For some reason I grabbed a C.202.
As I neared the contact I sighted them and it became clear that it was a group of three B-17Gs (This was before the days of bomber formations) escorted by three single engined fighters. They were at about 15k, well above me.
As I moved to position myself behind and below the B-17s the icons appeared and revealed the fighters as two F4Us and one P-51D.
Once I was in positon about 5k below and 12k behind the B-17s I began to slowly climb up the bomber's six like an idiot. The whole time I played the idiot I was watching the fighters, betting that they wouldn't do the smart thing and let the bombers eat the idiot C.202 for lunch (I mean, who attacks a B-17 formation from the low six in a C.202?!?).
After climbing for a bit all three fighters dove on me. I rolled out of the way and all three did flat break turns to get back to me. I saddled up on the P-51D and gave it a long burst scoring hits along the fuselage, putting an oil leak into it and taking off a flap or some such. The P-51D dove away and never returned, must've nursed it home as I never got a kill or assist. As soon as the P-51D dove away I did a break turn to the left to avoid the F4Us that were just getting saddled up on me. One of the F4Us dove to get speed while the other stayed in a decsending turn with me. Shortly I was behind him and with sustained fire took his wing off. The last F4U having gained some E from his dive was zooming back up to me so I rolled and turned away from his fire. We twisted and turned trying to gain a good shot, shortly ending up on the deck with me 200 yards behind him and with a speed of about 150mph. At that speed, range and altitude he couldn't run without offering me a free kill, so he was twisting, rolling and turning as hard as he could in that F4U. I was peppering him with shots, but I couldn't get a solid hit as he was moving too wildly. After about a minute of this he finally lost it and spun into the ocean.
I only landed two kills, but I had a lot of fun stripping a B-17 formation of all of it's late war escorts with my lowly C.202.
That happened about three years ago I guess.
"Useless" planes are for memories like that, scenarios and fans of aircraft other than Spitfire Mk IXs, P-51Ds, La-7s, N1K2-Js, B-17Gs and B-26Bs.
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42 .. i know what you are talking about.
generally i see it only used in the scenmarios, and every time those dmn hurri's just twist away LOL.
in the MA you generally run up aginst different planes, and most knowing what a 202 is think "easy kill" then you have 4-5 all trying to "spank the newbie who doesnt know what plane he's in".
at least thats been my experiance in the MA. if you are lucky enough to avoid the horde, you can have some great fights in it... i had an awsome one with umm who was the P40 guy? Honch? it lasted like 4-5 minutes.
problem in the MA those are very few and far between, thats whay i made my comment.
WW,
though i understand your comments, i tend to disagree in the experiances i have had. but hey everyone has their own opinion.
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
P40 isn't worthless, it provides a variety of choice for the people who like a challenge. or like the historical aspect of the P40 models. ( YMMV )
history my friend is something you might want to look up about this a/c because this type model as i understand saw action at the burma road and was flown by u.s. millitary volunteirs for china against the jap's before the u.s. entered the war and were considered to be obsolite agains current other models like the jap zero that could out turn and out climb the p40
you are right about one thing with this plane, the zero was supierior to the p40 but the pilots did find a way to over come this by superior thinking and knowing thier a/c better it seems then most jap's;)
but it still is too slow and can't turn, i'd have to say the only good this a/c is for in ah is too pork fields with and vulch, i dont remember too many times when a p40 has goten the better of me
and dont think it has a place in ah and could easily be replace by other better type models of ww2:aok
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This thread is a POS. Worthless.
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
why do we have worthless planes like the p40?
P40 is hardly worthless, I quite enjoy flying the P40 and as long as I keep my speed up and away from the Horde do rather well in it. Plus it has the ability to give people a nasty suprise.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
This thread is a POS. Worthless.
anytime any where morph:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by beet1e
LOL! I often wonder that myself, especially as most will fly the P51/LA7/Spit übertrio no matter what new planes are introduced.
I guess the P40 is a piece of crap. Colonel F. Gabreski certainly thought so (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52406).
thats why i posted this thank you beet1e
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Originally posted by (((Drum roll))) 68DevilM
why do we have worthless planes like the p40?
Could it be so you can have variety and challenge....or just to really chees off someone in a 262 (never done it in a P40...but Im 2-0 Spit MK I -vs- 262.....and it only to a 15 second burst:rofl
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Originally posted by Karnak
I still remember a 202 flight from long ago. I took off of Furball island on the NDIsles map to investigate a large clump of red dots heading south, just east of the island. For some reason I grabbed a C.202....(edited for brevity).............200 feet at a speed of about 150mph. At that speed, range and altitude he couldn't run without offering me a free kill, so he was twisting, rolling and turning as hard as he could in that F4U. I was peppering him with shots, but I couldn't get a solid hit as he was moving too wildly. After about a minute of this he finally lost it and spun into the ocean.
I only landed two kills, but I had a lot of fun stripping a B-17 formation of all of it's late war escorts with my lowly C.202.
Karnak has defined a good quality of the "lowly" planes. People just won't give up in an engagement with them, I guess it's a pride thing to want to kill them so bad, and not being able to let go when the tables turn. I fought a P-38 not too long ago that was a great fight, the nme just wouldn't give up on this twisting turning looping fight from about 10k all the way to the ground. The whole thing must of lasted 10 minutes and took place in a small area at furball island. We had reversals, snap shots by the bushel, I know I thought about my manuevers in that one fight more than any other fight I've been in, just because I was in a 202 and I knew I had to give it everything. In reality I just wanted to survive, it didn't occur to me until toward the end of the fight that I hadn't actually allowed him to score hardly any hits on me. In the end, I had him down to one engine with the "death of a 1000 cuts", and some jack*** in 51D swooped in and splashed him from somewhere, probably thinking he was helping *me* out in my lowly 202, but what a great fight.
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he has a point though.... if everyone is flying THE BEST plane in AH, then the slow ones arnt going to get many kills... ive lost count how many times i got into a good fight with an La7/P51 and once i get on there 6 all they have to do is auto level and leave me standing.....
so im turning to flying p51s/la7s and g10s myself....dont want to but........
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great pliots with good skill can win with planes like the P40 and many other old ones
dweebs cant win because they lack SA and jump into a LA7 and fly 450mph away from all the fights
very simple take 2 good P51D pliots and put them in P40's and you well find out who is the better pliot
die-ing to the Hord means you failed on SA
P40 is a unforgiving aircraft mistakes cant be made
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
history my friend is something you might want to look up about this a/c because this type model as i understand saw action at the burma road and was flown by u.s. millitary volunteirs for china against the jap's before the u.s. entered the war and were considered to be obsolite agains current other models like the jap zero that could out turn and out climb the p40
you are right about one thing with this plane, the zero was supierior to the p40 but the pilots did find a way to over come this by superior thinking and knowing thier a/c better it seems then most jap's;)
:aok
Why you think I haven't looked up history already? DevilM.
I have read
I love the book of baa baa black sheep, and how the AVG and Flying Tigers came about and what they flew etc etc
to me that is what I meant when I said the " Historical Aspect of The P-40" and as I said, it provides variety and a CHALLENGE. I am not trying to be negative toward you I am simply answering your question why we have them. and why they are not worthless.
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
why do we have worthless planes like the p40?
WHAT! you gotta try it. Get a kill and you'll see the addiction/fun in schooling the late war hordes in the early planes.
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
anytime any where morph:rolleyes:
What are you saying here Devil?
You wish to duel me? lol
Well sure if thats what you want. Somehow I think thats what you meant.
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Oh and btw.
The P40 as worthless as you may think is actually a real joy to fly. The E mod has great guns turns quite well and although its not the fastest plane in the game its not the slowest.
If you are in an out numberd area and dont manage your E you are as dead as can be. Hence E management is learned quite quickly here with the P40 and the value there of.
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What???? What???? Worthless? LMAO! Fly it then talk! :mad:
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I love climbin' in my P40, puttin' on the sound track to Pearl harbor, put my dreamy pic of Kate above my monitor to get me in my "Rafe" state of mind and blow your uber niki's out of the sky.
:aok
(http://us.ent4.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/touchstone_pictures/pearl_harbor/kate_beckinsale/pearl2.jpg)
-SLICER
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Originally posted by SunKing
WHAT! you gotta try it. Get a kill and you'll see the addiction/fun in schooling the late war hordes in the early planes.
lol, nothing give more fun than land 6-7 kills on hurricane mk1:)
P40'a are good divers, so hit and run
202 outturn allmost everything, with good engine , good climb can match most of mid war planes.
Zeke a6m2 is flying target, but stil can give hell.
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I'Ve only flown the P40s a few times. but each time I have I had alot of fun in em.
Seen some good sticks do some pretty decent fighting in em too
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
What are you saying here Devil?
You wish to duel me? lol
Well sure if thats what you want. Somehow I think thats what you meant.
just saying we could test your thery in your p40e anytime anywhere
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call it :)
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
just saying we could test your thery in your p40e anytime anywhere
****, I'll learn you a thing or two. Morph, let me handle this.
Cant turn? Slow? Cant dive? Bad armament? I strongly disagree.
DevilM, when is convenient for you? AHII some time this weekend good for you?
BTW, what are you accomplishing by starting this thread? You want them removed or something? Keep their popularity down, no more threads like this.
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The CT needs them devil btw.
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Why do we want superplanes ??
dweebs
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DevilM...obviously you haven't spend that much time flying a P-40 as have oct. morph. honch. myself and a great deal of others...
If oct doesn't get a chance to learn you a thing or 2...find me. I'd love to deul you...You can fly what you like...I'll fly P-40
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AH need a lot more "worthless" planes.
Maybe something like this;):
- Brewster Model 239 (F2A-1)
- Fiat G.50
- Polikarpov I-16 and I-15bis
- Lavochkin LaGG-3
- Curtiss Hawk 75A
- Gloster Gladiator Mk. II
- Fokker D.XXI
- Bell P39
- Yakovlev Yak-1
- Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-3
- early Interleukin-2's (IL-2)
- SB's. DB's & Pe's
- Bristol Blemheim
Did I forget something? :)
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I'll say 5-0 for Morpheus in P40s, then 5-0 in DevilM's plane of choice, then 1-0 followed by prompt alt-f4 in DevilM's second plane of choice.
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My $ is on Morpheus, the whole way threw hehe.
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
why do we have worthless planes like the p40?
why wont you just cancel your account now and save your self the embarrassment of being killed by my p40b?
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As far as I can tell, I've only ever been killed by 1xP40B and 2xP40E - a record I can live with, ie. won't be cancelling account. "Kills of" values are 13 and 17 respectively. Tells me that not many P40s are flown, and those that are flown are crap.
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Beetle, you didn't see one of Honch's missions.
Those who joined were mentally prepared to deal with the performance handicap, and tho at first the enemy niki and stupidfire defenses weren't impressed, they soon moved to other bases :D
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I been flying the P40E a fair bit in AH2 and it's great fun.
GTR went through a stage of using the P40B in the MA and would often RTB many kills. I dunno how he did it.
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none of the planes are "worthless" they are just at a huge disadvantage in the current MA.... a fairly decent stick can kill the best we have if the best is in one of these planes.
They are not worthless just nearly so. they are simply not used or seen much. You can surprise people in em because people don't expect much but if they go at you with any kind of caution you are meat in those things.
lazs
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The P40 should have a much higher ENY value.
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I really like flying the P-40. It served a significant role in history and I believe it deserves a place in the game.
It is fun and classy - Traits that some people still appreciate.
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In addition to value in historical scenarios like Combat Theater, the earlier planes are enjoyed by the best pilots as a means of handicapping the competition, like giving strokes in golf or a headstart in track.
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There are.. "ways"... to make "crap".. planes, less "crappy"...
...
(hint*hint*)
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Best record in the P-40(E) is 4 kills...
...only left the fight cause I ran outta ammo.
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rolex.. the early war planes are very much appreciated in the arena... especialy by those who come up against em in a late war plane.
I have flown the p40 and gotten kills and landed em. I have flown every plane in the game and landed kills... some it was easy in because I was flying a superior plane..
In the inferior planes I got kills because my enemy didn't expect much and got careless.
counting on your enemy dismissing u as harmless is hardly the same as him being beaten because you have an equal or superior plane.
lazs
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Originally posted by Octavius
****, I'll learn you a thing or two. Morph, let me handle this.
Cant turn? Slow? Cant dive? Bad armament? I strongly disagree.
DevilM, when is convenient for you? AHII some time this weekend good for you?
BTW, what are you accomplishing by starting this thread? You want them removed or something? Keep their popularity down, no more threads like this.
remove for something better hmmm let me think about this?:D
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Honch is an animal in his wittle P40.
If you got bagged by a P40 there's a good chance it was Honch.
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P40 was the 3rd most produced fighter in the US inventory with somewhere around 12,000+ built (don't have my references on hand...) (P47 and P51 were 1st and 2nd, respectively) ahead of the P38. For that reason alone the P40 is here. (After all, less than 300 C.205s were produced and we have them)
The P40 was admittedly relegated to a secondary roll in the ETO, but in N. Africa and the Pacific, it was much more succesful.
The main problem with the P40 in AH is that we don't have the the most popular model, the 'N'. Admittedly these were introduced about the time the P47 was coming in to play. And, as you can see by the 'N', they burnt through a lot of the alphabet desperately trying to improve the P40. But, the P40N had a competetive bombload (1,500 lbs, I believe) and a higher max speed (345 @ ~15K or thereabouts if memory serves me right) plus some more armor for the hapless soul inside.
Anyway, I suppose the thread was just to rattle some cages, but the P40 ain't a bad plane--just give us the P40N!!
righty
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BRING ON THE NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!
:D
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
BRING ON THE NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!
:D
I thought "NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!" was a word you said if you had constipation and were attempting to rectify the situation. Surprised Nopoop isn't the one to be saying it, with a handle like his.
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eeewwww u sick little dweeb:o
It might sound like eeeehhhhhhhherrrrrahhhhhhuhhh hhhhgg
ahhh
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After reding this thread this morning I was inspired to try out the 202 in AHII. My first sojourn ended in a nice fight with a Niki that I ultimately lost. When I re-upped, I left the wing mounted 7.92s in th hangar, sallying forth with only the cowl mount 12mms. At least in my mind it seemed to help in both the turning and acceleration depts. I landed that misson with kills on a Niki, an F6F, and a LA-7, along with at least 2 or 3 assists.
The next few times I tried to up were at a base that was being vulched. Lousy SA, but fun. The closest I got to survival was against a 109F, but he eventually outturned me in a low speed edge of the stall full flaps turnfight.
A Challenge to survival, definitely.
Worthless, no way.
There is a certain feeling when RTB in a 202 with three high value ENY planes in one's kill column. Almost Zen like. You can't help but grin from ear to ear!
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Thanks to the loss of the TBM, I think that any and all CV bombers are now pretty worthless...
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Originally posted by Xjazz
AH need a lot more "worthless" planes.
Maybe something like this;):
- Brewster Model 239 (F2A-1)
- Fiat G.50
- Polikarpov I-16 and I-15bis
- Lavochkin LaGG-3
- Curtiss Hawk 75A
- Gloster Gladiator Mk. II
- Fokker D.XXI
- Bell P39
- Yakovlev Yak-1
- Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-3
- early Interleukin-2's (IL-2)
- SB's. DB's & Pe's
- Bristol Blemheim
Did I forget something? :)
Boeing P-26 PeaShooter
A total of 11 Model 281's (P-26C's) were delivered to the Chinese Government for use against the invading Japanese forces. The P-26 proved it's abilities in combat by racking up a number of kills, but, was eventually taken out of service due to a lack of spare parts. A twelfth P-26 was sold to Spain without machine gun equipment installed. This aircraft was subsequently modified by the Spanish Air Force in the field to carry a couple of .50 caliber machine guns under the wings but was shot down before scoring any kills. Another service that successfully utilized the P-26 as a front line fighter was the Philippine Air Force which scored several aerial victories against the invading Japanese forces before being overtaken.
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Originally posted by Flyboy
why wont you just cancel your account now and save your self the embarrassment of being killed by my p40b?
as far as i can tell ive only been killed by one mabey two p 40's and we should put your p40 to the test against my spit
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
BRING ON THE NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!
:D
yeah but seriously morph you and i will have to get together sometime in the dueling arena and show me what im missing with the p40? unfortunately i havent gotten my air legs in ah2 yet becuase im still holding on to ah1 and am sorry to see it go but i as will the rest of us ah1 finatic's will have to let go and move to ah2
p.s i get any plane of my choice against your p40 right?
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
p.s i get any plane of my choice against your p40 right?
yes
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cool when's good for you
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Any time Sunday, going out tonight. :)
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I can tell you 68 your Spit9 is a little less 'uber' in Ah2. ;)
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yes will have to get used to the differences in ah2 with the 9 , will trye some tonight
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You need to understand and know the limitations of the plane you are flying. The P40, tho limited in certain aspects is a very capable plane in the MA. And in the DA as well. Surely if you bring some of the better turn fighters into play with the P40 its only a matter of time in a turn fight that the P40 is going to lose. So you dont want to sit in a constant drawn out turn fight with planes like SpitV's ect. Rather you want to finish a fight early. That doesnt mean you need to cherry pick the other plane but you want to make a few turns down the plane and move on as quickly as posible. The longer it takes for you to get guns on that better turn fighter the less likely it is you will walk away from it.
Also many forget that flaps make a world of difference. I dont know if you are useing them or not but if you aren't you need to be. They are the only thing that keeps you in a turn fight. I make no claim to be a top notch stick. But if you are going to say that the P40 is a worthless plane I am going to say it isn't. And them Im going prove it.
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show me what im missing with the p40?
When I read this the first word that comes to mind is "Challenge". Really thats the whole game for me. I could sit in a spit9 and never get shot down. It climbs like a bat out of hell, turns like a spit5 if you know how to use throtle and keep it slow enough to stay in flaps. BUT there is no fun if there is no challenge. The spit9 is a great plane, dont mistake what I am saying here. Its just a heck of alot easier to fly than say the P40. It takes some level of skill to fly it and become successful in it. The spit9 on the other hand does not.
I like the 38. Its not the fastest plane in the game and surely not the best turn fighter. But if you fly it how is likes to fly it will give you excellent results. It stall fights better than any fighter in the game and still remains manuverable at extreme slow speeds. And can chew up and spit out most of the spit9 dweebs in the game and even a few spit5's. (I am talking in turn fights)
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this could be a good thing for me, i love the spit9 for all of those reasons, ive loved that little sucker since the first time i logged into this massively confusing game and was asking questions like what i heard in the ma tonight in ah1 tonight "what does check six mean"
lol i about died even i knew what that was when i first started!
but im getting off topic, one thing i am not though is a la7, 190 up to defend or chace guy, and have'nt use the la7 for some time now sure its fast and can flip around on you quite easily and ive learned my lesson about trying to take it on head on lol!
thing about that spit for me now is i know i can't catch those type planes but i do know how to defend with them, no if i want to go on the offensive i'll go p51d
ha funny thing just looked up you stats, fellow spit 5 lover ok! one day we will have to try the 14 model together after the p 40 model tryle of course
:cool:
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
It takes some level of skill to fly it and become successful in it. The spit9 on the other hand does not.
{bevis voice} Mor..ph... just.. called.... 68..... skil...less huh... hu... hu.. hu.....huh {/bevis voice}
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umm did you pick your own name or did someone give it to you while you were picking your nose:p
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nevermind... ;)
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
But if you are going to say that the P40 is a worthless plane I am going to say it isn't. And them Im going prove it.
Maybe not worthless, but disadvantaged in the current MA. After all, what use is the P40 chasing after P51 or LA7? Remember, those are your most likely adversaries. And what form would your "proof" take? A duel in the DA? Hardly what I'd call proof. But many people cite DA duelling results as proof of what a plane can do, and whilst the results can be interesting, they are hardly indicative of how well a plane (eg. P40) is going to do in the MA, which is an entirely different scenario.
As I said, I have been killed only three times by a P40 since it was introduced to AH. As a measure of its worth in the MA, that's all I need to know.
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i flew the p40e for the first time in a couple of months and well....its much better than i thought...or they havnt "broken" it yet with AHII....
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Originally posted by beet1e
Maybe not worthless, but disadvantaged in the current MA. After all, what use is the P40 chasing after P51 or LA7? Remember, those are your most likely adversaries. And what form would your "proof" take? A duel in the DA? Hardly what I'd call proof. But many people cite DA duelling results as proof of what a plane can do, and whilst the results can be interesting, they are hardly indicative of how well a plane (eg. P40) is going to do in the MA, which is an entirely different scenario.
As I said, I have been killed only three times by a P40 since it was introduced to AH. As a measure of its worth in the MA, that's all I need to know.
that was kinda of my intended result of this post, at least someone gets me!
i dont know must not be speaking the right language in here:confused:
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ohh and hey octavious
gonna have to probably push that duel back a little if its too be in ah2
tryed it out last night again and have to say im preety impressed with most of the new improvments but man i can barely hit a plane with my guns, dont know if its the new look of the tracers or because every time i get on someones six my frame resoulution drops from like 86 to 12 and freeze stop freeze stop!
anyway to tweek my video card performance suggestions would be greatly appreciated
system spec's
emachines t2482
windows xp
amd athlon xp processor 2400+
1.99 ghz
768 mb ram
radeon 9200 128mb ddr
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Originally posted by beet1e
As I said, I have been killed only three times by a P40 since it was introduced to AH. As a measure of its worth in the MA, that's all I need to know.
That's because only 3 have reached 35k. :p
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Originally posted by DipStick
That's because only 3 have reached 35k. :p
Oh touché, très amusant, mon ami. But it's getting old. Thought you could have thought up something more witty than that. It only took you 25 hours. :rolleyes:
But nonetheless, not exactly unexpected from a SpitV woop-de-doop wannabe.
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can you FEEL the love? ;)
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Originally posted by Overlag
can you FEEL the love? ;)
Good Evening! I'm from Essex, in case you couldn't tell. My given name is Dicky, I come from Billericay - and I'm doing... very well!
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Originally posted by beet1e
Good Evening! I'm from Essex, in case you couldn't tell. My given name is Dicky, I come from Billericay - and I'm doing... very well!
oohh :) Hornchurch here ;)
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For me the P40B is a coffin, it is a 40 ENY.
Also with same 40 ENY:
Hurricane II C
KI61
F4F
P47D11
Mossie
La5
205
F4U1
P40B isnt in the same league. P40E has same eny as a P51B too - that dont sound right either, but at least it has a nice rack of 50's.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Maybe not worthless, but disadvantaged in the current MA. After all, what use is the P40 chasing after P51 or LA7? Remember, those are your most likely adversaries.
[/b]
Sorry for the late reply, but I just read this now.
I think that situation is a little fubar in the first place. I normally fly planes deemed 'worthless' by the thread starter and I am surprised to find the planes, possessing much more capability with equal pilots, running from P40s, 202s, and others (well, notsomuch surprised anymore - it happens too often :))
As I said, I have been killed only three times by a P40 since it was introduced to AH. As a measure of its worth in the MA, that's all I need to know.
For me, I dont think that would be an accurate measuring tool. Killed 3 times by a P40 can also be due to its severe non-usage :) All things being equal and based on percentage of kills by each aircraft in the MA, the average pilot would be killed many more times by La7s, Spits, and P51D than a P40.
Disadvantaged in the MA? Of course, thats one small reason why I fly it. Capable? In my hands, I am confident. Worthless? No.
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Originally posted by Zanth
For me the P40B is a coffin, it is a 40 ENY.
Also with same 40 ENY:
Hurricane II C
KI61
F4F
P47D11
Mossie
La5
205
F4U1
P40B isnt in the same league. P40E has same eny as a P51B too - that dont sound right either, but at least it has a nice rack of 50's.
hehe, ditto ditto and ditto!
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=80675&referrerid=3089 !!!
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The P-40 we got should've been a P-40N.
Bring the P-40N with the big white skull on the side to AH2!
(http://adamsplanes.com/photogallery/P-40N%20pictures/left_prof.jpg)
(http://adamsplanes.com/photogallery/P-40N%20pictures/left_nose.jpg)
This is the 80th Fighter Group P-40N. All of them had a skull on the side, but no two plane had the same skull design. Here's another one from the 80th:
(http://www.p40warhawk.com/Models/RogerJackson/P-40N/Warhawk06.jpg)
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So ya think the P40 is worthless do ya?
This sortie was flown last night. Cons all over, no rearms.
Eat your heart out P40 haterz!:mad:
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/272_1087239137_p40run.jpg)
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Originally posted by Octavius
For me, I dont think that would be an accurate measuring tool. Killed 3 times by a P40 can also be due to its severe non-usage :) All things being equal and based on percentage of kills by each aircraft in the MA, the average pilot would be killed many more times by La7s, Spits, and P51D than a P40.
I agree entirely. But now ask yourself WHY it is so underused? Becoming clearer now? :aok
Yes, the average pilot is likely to be killed more often by P51/LA7 than anything else - not only because they're about the fastest nonperk prop planes in the game, but also because they're the most heavily used and there will be more of them than anything else. I checked my stats for my last complete tour (T49) and saw that the plane that killed me the most was P51D. But what I also saw was that the P51D/LA7/Spit ix were in my top 5 fighter planes killed. It's always that way for me, and if you were to look at the scores of any accomplished player, you would see the same thing: Those three planes will be amongst the top five that any accomplished player killed the most.
My relationship with the F4U is like yours with the P40. My Hog is slower, worse climbing, worse turning, and less manoeuvrable than both the P51 and LA7, and the Spit ix beats it on all those counts except speed. What this means is that I can't just go into any old fight with impunity, and expect to come out of it. Tactics play a greater role - the need to out-think the enemy, anticipate where he will appear and at what alt, and be there waiting for him - with a 5K advantage of course! ;)
Morpheus - nice, but I'd need to see the film before passing judgement. That pic proves nothing. How do we know you haven't got a couple of 2-week accounts set up? OK, I know you well enough to know you wouldn't do that, but you see my point.
Now Morpheus, I have opened a bottle of 1998 Spanish red wine - I may need you to clear my 6 a few times later on!
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Morpheus - nice, but I'd need to see the film before passing judgement. That pic proves nothing. How do we know you haven't got a couple of 2-week accounts set up? OK, I know you well enough to know you wouldn't do that, but you see my point.
Geee Thanks Beetle :rolleyes:
But coming from you I would expect nothing less. ;)
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with a 5K advantage of course!
:lol :eek: :aok :rofl :rofl :aok
Enuff said.
PS- Stay out of the P40 you'll just make it look bad.;)
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holy crap morph you musta had to hit the rearm pad like 5 times
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No rearms.
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Since the thread lost me long ago, I thought I'd comment on your avatar selection. Both this one and the last one are FREAKING HILARIOUS!!!! Great choices both times :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
!
--Howitzer
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Originally posted by Rolex
It is fun and classy - Traits that some people still appreciate.
and much like the british sports car (MGB or TGR come to mind) gloriously outclassed.
But that's part of its charm.
Only used the p40 in the CT. The first time i did i was in a 5 minute fight with it. Can't remember what the cons were but i know that the plane was too much for my meagre skills.
to anyone who can fly it successfully.:aok
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Ran across this little tale about the P-40 in the book Fighters of World War II by Jeffrey Ethel and Robert T. Sand. The book is a collection of anecdotes by combat pilots who fought in North Africa, Italy, and Great Britain.
The following tale is told by Barrie Davis, a P-51 pilot of the 325th Fighter Group:
Davis stated that new P-51 pilots that came to his group were invariably cocky to the point that they were dangerous to themselves. They felt that the Luftwaffe was finished and that they easily kill anything that flew in their P-51s. To give them an attitude adjustment the veterans of the group used a war-weary P-40. Davis was in charge of putting them through a fast, intensive training program, the final flight of which was a mock dogfight between one of the new pilots in a P-51 and any of the veteran pilots flying the P-40.
Being familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of both aircrafts, the veterans could make the P-51 look outclassed. Using the P-40s strengths, they could outfly the P-51 at low altitudes. The new fighter jocks eventually realized that there was more to aerial combat than simply having the better airplane. At that point the new pilot became ready to listen to everything the veterans had to say.
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Being familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of both aircrafts, the veterans could make the P-51 look outclassed. Using the P-40s strengths, they could outfly the P-51 at low altitudes. The new fighter jocks eventually realized that there was more to aerial combat than simply having the better airplane. At that point the new pilot became ready to listen to everything the veterans had to say.
[/B] [/SIZE]
I hope everyone is reading this part.
Its the most important statement of this entire thread.
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"So ya think the P40 is worthless do ya?
This sortie was flown last night. Cons all over, no rearms. "
Ehemmmmm.......Vulch....ehhem mmmm......I got 39 kills in a seafire once vulching...that sortie does nothing to enhance my view of the p40. Its a barely average early war plane with nice guns that turns halfway decent at slow speeds. Who were the 9 newbs that were gracious enuff to let you kill them lol? :) I love you morph!
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We have 2 "P40" models, you just can't call em both "P-40"'s and faily deal with the subject. The "P-40" with the good comments, is the E model. This version has the same guns as the P-51D (1/3 more firepower than a P-51B).
The P-40B, the flying tigers "P-40" , is a different animal all together.
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Who were the 9 newbs that were gracious enuff to let you kill them lol?
Why they were Bish of course. ;)
One thing I might add is the fact that 50 cals are horrible to vulch with in comparison to cannons. If I am going to shoot at a plane its goint to be to get a kill rather than assist someone else in getting a kill. Unless its a squady of course. So in a plane like the P40 with its limited ammo I will only shoot when given good shots, when within 350d and when the plane looks to be 'virgin' of any damage, and lastly I will aim for small parts like wing tips and tail pieces rather than trying to slice the plane in half or blow it up. Just a dab will do ya. ;)
In that sorti all kills were air to air with several assists. Like I said, 50cals just do nothing to vulch. They may pull some parts off but the chances that you will blow the plane up are slim and if you do it will be either a pilot kill or a lucky hit with a 'golden bb' which took a lot of ammo to get to. And with the P40 you dont have a lot.
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Also.. without the P-40's there is no proper way to play "Rafe and Danny save the fleet"!
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Originally posted by JB73
would be nice to see the 202 get the cannon gun package i have read about, and seen posted here.
Only if the performance suffers accordingly.
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Morpheus - if it was so easy to produce those results with your P40, working with XJ, do it again. But this time, post the film...
...otherwise it's like a Tommy Cooper conjouring trick - the one where he has two boxes, and he has to make a bottle move from one box to the other then back again. He performs the spell to move the bottle from Box1 to Box2, opens Box2 and proclaims "Yes! It's there!", and then works the spell to move it back again to Box1, showing us the contents of the boxes at the end of the trick.
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why do we have worthless planes like the p40?
So B&Zers will auger into the ground trying to get them!
:aok
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quit the paranoia Beetle, it's not hard to do, take their word for it, or try it yourself even.
I did maybe 5x 6-10 feeding on a good furball once, reall quick kills when you position yourself near the core of the furball.
The light nose aim and usual 6.50s are really not rocket science.
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OK you want a challenge try shooting down a P-38 with only a Stuka! I am no great pilot by any means, so I thought I was dead right and proper. I had no advantages. I was lower, slower, and had BB's for guns. Yet in a 3 min fight I had managed to blast his left engine oil, left rudder, left aleron, and the final killing shot finished off his elevator. Most of my shots had to be quick bursts when he was briefly between 180-230. If he had taken the fight vertical I would have been dead, but he only did flat turns. I kept his shots hi deflection shots, then lo yo-yo'ed onto his six and stung his prettythang while he sped away for another pass.
Their are no worthless planes, just cr@py pilots.
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Morpheus - if it was so easy to produce those results with your P40, working with XJ, do it again. But this time, post the film...
Who said it was easy beetle? I got my 9th kill with 55 rnds of 50 cals left and was inside 100d of the con before I ever started to fire. Thats how tight the ammo can be.
Dont start your "I wont beleive it until you film it" crap with me british wonder. Stick to your 20k Hogs and I'll stick to the way I like to fly. That is with out an advantage 100% of the time.
Oh yessssss one last little thing I would like add before I close here.
YOU sir are the LAST person I would ever think of 'proving' anything to. lol! To me you are just another player with a very bad attitude on how he THINKS 'his' game should be played. :rolleyes:
I honestly dont know who you think you are that you'd be so special for others to have to film what they do and how they fly for them to have any credibility with you. I mean just the fact that you expect people to do it is enough to make me hurl. Step off that horsy big boy. Its not as high as you think.
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Morpheus - what a pitiful post. You post a screenshot of you and XJ landing 20 kills between you, and you expect your audience to simply take it on board, no questions asked.
Month after month I see you and guys like you whining about the pizza map. I hear that there are "no fights" on the pizza. So if I were to produce a screenshot like this...
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/p47d2510k.jpg)
...would you simply roll over and say "Oh! 10 kills in a P47 - on the pizza map of all maps. I guess I was wrong - there ARE fights to be had on the pizza!" ??? No, I very much doubt it. You would accuse me of vulching, having 50K alt advantages, running, maybe having 25-1 numerical advantage along with all your usual slurs.
And yet, on the strength of a single screen shot, you expect me to reverse my opinion on the P40, and you expect me to believe you achieved those results in a competitive solution. Maybe you did. All I'm saying is I want to see it. Put up, or shut up.
Originally posted by MoRphEuS
Stick to your 20k Hogs and I'll stick to the way I like to fly. That is with out an advantage 100% of the time.
LOL :lol Yeah, another of your slurs. Funny how you "fight guy" SpitV woop-de-doop ace wannabe types go from one extreme to the other with your slurs. One moment I'm accused of being a building battler/toolshed killer, the next thing I'm a 20K alt monkey. One of the other SpitV w-d-d-ace-wannabes accused me of being at 35K - LOL. Erm.... not many buildings at 20K :rolleyes: But the accusations are totally in keeping with your binary thinking.
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I dont recall ever really pressing on the point of you being a "tool shed" killer ect. If I did, oh well I'm almost certain you'll get over it. Your a big enough boy.
wtg on those 10 kills but with the option of 3500 50cals I would have taken that and stopped with I ran out or died ;) Which ever came first. Who knows maybe you wanted to impress the ladies that night with your landing 10 kills. Or just got tired of trying to find someone to shoot at one Pizza. :)
Frankly my British Superhero, Im impressed.
What I think about Pizza is simply this. There are fights, but they are few and far between. When one is found it usually never lasts very long. That is for many reasons. A few are someone doesn't like the way the fight is going and porks the fuel. Or they up and go to another base, hide in a GV, and attempt to capture undefended bases. Which we all know is always a hoot.
"put up or shut up"??? lol ok here we go again... I rest my case on who you are. Mr High and Mighty I DEMAND MY FILM or its all a lie or an easily fabricated examle. Which ever you pick really makes no difference to me bud. Like I said before, you are the last in the game I would attempt to try and prove anything to.
Its OK to be the who you are Beetle. We all feel better about being who we are with you around. I know I do. :)
AND I like ya all the same. ;)
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Morph - You say one thing, and you do another. I remember that night when I stumbled into you - I had to go AFK for a wine refill, and you kindly checked my 6. When I came back, this is what I saw.
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/morpheusvulching.jpg)
Originally posted by MoRphEuS
and I'll stick to the way I like to fly. That is with out an advantage 100% of the time.
Flying without an alt advantage? Flying against numerical odds? I wasn't going to vulch the hapless Spit reupping at that base, so I RTBed. You landed 6 kills in your P38 - oh wait, don't tell me: Cons flew in from another base 10 minutes distant, dived on you, and you forced them to overshoot/auger using your elite turnfiting prowess. No vulches at all! :aok
Still wonder why I want to see the film ??? AND I like ya all the same.
Oh, well that's an improvement on one our earlier dingdong threads!! Give us a kiss then. ;)
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If you still fly in the MA beetle we can wing ANYTIME. You will get no film because, well if you still don't know you need to go back to the first grade and learn how to read.
So if you think you can keep up, let me know. :) I will show you what it takes to fly the worthless P40 :) This is for my own amusment of you flying with me and me using you as bait of course ;)
So as you; my British Superhero, would say.
Toodles!:lol
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You landed 6 kills in your P38 - oh wait, don't tell me: Cons flew in from another base 10 minutes distant,
You must really be getting forgetful in your old age there.
Because I think your forgetting the NIKs and 109s and Spits I was turn fighting 10 minutes before that North East of that very base. Infact you even drug up a con for me to bag. (hence the whole bait thing) And IF my memory serves me correctly here (which is normaly does) I didnt get one vulch from this field. Its a pitty you weren't zoomed in to see what morph really looks like because you might beable to tell which way I was headed. Owell. ;)
I enjoy a good vulch just as much as the next dude in the game. But my vast % of kills come via air to air and aren't always aquired by flying with an advantage. Which to me is a big part of what I find 'fun'. (Challenge) You'll learn one day beetle.
BTW did you know that Mr British Superhero can also be abreviated into Mr. BS? LMAO!:lol
I really find it ironic how you speak of me flying with an advantage of numbers in that pic and your right there nearly side by side flying next to me only with about 5000ft worth of alt over me! lmao
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he just wants your tits.
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why do you have to keep taking the piss out of him because his british?
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Beet and I go way back. He makes me laugh and even tho we have our disagreements at times I still concider him a 'friend' within the game. Busting balls really overlag. You should know all about that. I am the Arogant American Punk and he is my British Superhero. But honestly Beet knows I am busting balls all in good fun and he can give it back just as well and does. If you dont like that, well, what more can I say than what I already had?
For the most part I am a very kind person. But often my kindness is shielded by the fact that I am really a dik head at heart.
:)
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k you silly yank ;)
no wait im not a friend so cant do those jokes :( lol :lol
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no wait im not a friend so cant do those jokes lol
HEY!
That really hurts man!:(
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
HEY!
That really hurts man!:(
:lol
OT now, ill let you get back to bashing the sky accountant ;) :p
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These threads irk me... Any man who thinks the p40 can only vulch or fly w/ the pack to get a lot of kills is seriously mistaken. Just watch Wadke, the guy flies in lower than the enemy and comes out with a stack of pelts that would make any la7 tard drool like a teen in a porno store. It's the pilot, not the plane, though the ride helps :D
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P-40 sucks... give us P-36 Curtiss Hawks :)
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ROFL Morpheus! :D
Oh well, I've made my point. ;) And although I'm almost old enough to be your grandfather, my memory isn't fading yet. Yes, you did bag one which I dragged up. I was trying to get him myself, but that 109G is not known for responding to elevator as crisply as some other planes I could mention. I got a couple of kills, and then went for the wine refill - stayed high (by which I mean I kept the plane high) in case any more cons came in from a neighbouring base. But wait - this is the pizza map - they can't be arsed to do that! The screenshot is one I took after I got back from the kitchen.
Hehe Morph, we're both doing the same thing in different ways. You like to fly at a disadvantage, and at your tender age you are driven to succeed. You have far more ambition than I do in this game. I am a different animal. I like to try planes to see how they might have been used in WW2, eg. recreate situations as described by Colonel Gabreski, who I've met. Some have described the P47 as a flying brick or a POS. But in the rarefied air at the high alts on the pizza map, it can be good. (Of those 10, about 3 were GVs I bombed, two low level kills (not vulches) and then I went to another area and got 5 air to air) As for LW iron, I've been flying the 109s in AH and my 109 flying skill has improved tremendously. I used to be totally useless. Now I'm just crap.
So my fav planes are the USN ones because they are good fighters and good for jabo. They don't perform anything like my most likely adversaries, so I have to create opportunities - that doesn't simply mean climbing to 20K :rolleyes: - unless I suspect the presence of a high alt buff attack. I like the thinking man's game. :aok
Hehe, we've had the disagreement phase, now we've had the BBS dingdong phase - glad to see we're on to friendship phase! I did the same thing with Mars01 and now we email like old mates. Same thing with slapshot, steve, Lazs, Toad - a whole list! So now, you're my second favourite maroon - Mars01 is the first. Yep, we can wing any time. Don't know when I'll be on again. Hard to sit in front of a computer screen in this fine summer weather we're having, and there is to be a 36 hour period of toodle-pippage...
(http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/11/11_1_103.gif)
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the revenge of the under dogs :)
(http://members.lycos.co.uk/flyboy16/P40-f4f.jpg)
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beet1e i can see your point about screenshot proofs of kills, and there is no way to tell for sure how they were obtained but wtg flyboy and by no way am i trying to refute your kills but show me video, that will at least put all disscusion at ease....
by the way, can anyone give me some good pointers on killing some good zero pilots out there? now that plane put in the right hands can be a very deadly aircraft:mad:
tekito i think was his name:mad: :mad: :confused: :( :o
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There isn't hardly a plane in the set that can't take advantage of a faster top speed than the Zero.
Faster top speed translates into a faster merge, which translates into more energy to use at the start of a fight. Most post-1942 planes will have no trouble keeping that initial E advantage and wearing down the Zero.
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Originally posted by Octavius
wow
I take offense.
grab yourself an la7 and I'll show you how worthless P40s are
update since:
screw the la7, ill just up a spit5 or2 or 9 and deal with you p40 either version...;)
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
update since:
screw the la7, ill just up a spit5 or2 or 9 and deal with you p40 either version...;)
Well, glad to see that a year has passed and you're still challenging yourself :aok
My money's still on Octavius.
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the can of worms have been opened:rofl
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Originally posted by Octavius
wow
[/b]
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Originally posted by Shane
there are no worthless planes - only worthless pilots.
:aok
I was gonna say the exact same thing LOL