Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Cobra412 on June 13, 2004, 11:36:51 AM
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I'm not sure if anyone has tried this but can we put out fires in steep dives? I'm not sure if they are modeling self-sealing tanks but if they are can those aircraft that don't have them atleast have the option of putting out the fire with a steep dive? Currently if this happens you only have the option to bail or if your low ditch quickly.
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that would be cool b/c all you could do if u were on fire is bail but not in real life.u could put if out in a steep dive in real life
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I would think that even if you could out a fire out in a steep dive,there would be enough damage from the fire to result in some type of structurel failure at the higher speed in the dive
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Hey Flit My dad lives in Winchester.
Anyway, I'd rather see Fire Extinguishers on Engines on planes that had them IRL.
I don't know how much validity there is in the "Steep Dive" Method of fighting fires. Wouldnt it be if you dove, More Oxygen would be fanning the flames, Thus making it worse?
Most stories I've read of Pilots with planes on fire, The First thing the pilot did was Bail.
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Flit the fire would have to have been going for awhile to cause that much damage. Once your know your on fire you should be able to immediately nose over and pick up speed. I honestly don't know how much speed it'd take to do this or how much altitude you'd need. I was just curious if it's a possible thing which I think it would be but who knows. I'll do some research to find out.
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Just a thought, but fire depends on having heat, fuel, and oxygen in close proximity..... A dive, while providing more O2, would tend to remove heat from the reaction, and the increased speed would tend to drag the point of combustion away from the fuel source untill the fuel was too diluted to maintain combustion. Dont really know, but that is my best guess.
Gunns
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Gunnss thats what I was thinking. I did read a few things online where a Mossie did this exact thing and extinguished it's fire. I also read about a very well known bird the Memphis Belle that did just this maneuver to extinguish their fire. I also read about another B-17 that tried it but the fire was to intense and they had to bail. I forget which fighter model it was but they tried the same thing with an massive wing route fire and it would go out then when they leveled out again it would start back up. I guess if it were an engine fire it would be harder to extinguish. The wing fires on the other hand shouldn't be as hard depending on where and how large the fuel leak is.
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Heat has nothing to do with keeping a fire going. Cold wood burns quite well.
I think there may be a couple of strats in the 'dive to put out' thing.
1. You can cut off the fuel, then dive to quickly burn off the remainder (adding more air), rather than letting less combustables catch fire.
2. You can cut off the fuel, then dive to push the flame away from the surface and put it out by making the fuel/air mixture too lean.
Problem is if you cant cut off the fuel, then you have a blow torch, not a fire extinguisher. I would be interested if any of these theories is the real one behind 'diving'.
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Originally posted by Cobra412
I also read about a very well known bird the Memphis Belle that did just this maneuver to extinguish their fire.
Please don't get the movie confused with Reality, I've read the Biography of Col Robert Morgan, Granted it has been a few years since I read it, but I don't think he ever did that in combat.
I might be wrong though.
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LOL i watched that movie it sucked
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because it did not have spitfires and la7s in it?
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no because it had that gay irish guy in it.. and that pilot was not exactly what I would call straight either
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I read this from these two newspaper clips. One was by the Washington Post and the other by the Boston Globe.
Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31991-2004May16.html)
Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/obituaries/articles/2004/05/21/robert_morgan_pilot_of_famed_bomber_memphis_belle/)
From what I've read here they are quoting him and not the movie itself.
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Well, I stand Corrected.
The Movie was a pathetic attempt of trying to blend Hollywood with History.
None of the Crewmen in the Movie had the same names as thier real life people they were "trying" to portray. Even Robert Morgans name was changed.
Thanks for the Links, Cobra.
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Originally posted by Cobra412
Currently if this happens you only have the option to bail or if your low ditch quickly.
Or you can Ride it in... Return to the tower to fight again quickly
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The whole time u guys were talking about diving to put out a fire, i was thinking of Memphis Belle
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Nefarious I wasn't trying to be rude with my post just so you know. I hope I didn't come off that way. For all I know they could have misquoted him.
Grimm even though we don't have all the options for realistic flying I like to play the game that way as much as possible. I'd rather return my bird home even if I'm damaged or ditch it if absolutely necessary. Same goes with jumping in the silk. Many considered it protecting your score. I myself consider it a realistic reaction. If I know I'm hurt badly I'm gonna bail.
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Just a thought, but fire depends on having heat, fuel, and oxygen in close proximity..... A dive, while providing more O2, would tend to remove heat from the reaction, and the increased speed would tend to drag the point of combustion away from the fuel source untill the fuel was too diluted to maintain combustion. Dont really know, but that is my best guess.
Oxygen is everything when it comes to burning. Burning is in other terms a very rapid spontaneous process of oxidization which emits heat.
If a plane dives very fast, an isolated source of fire may temporarily run out of oxygen because the airflow could become so fast that the rate oxygen is burned out is faster than it is resupplied. So in some cases, it is possible to expect fires to die out.
However, as the vast majority of cases of onboard fires are caused by ignition of the fuel, the moment the plane slows down from a dive it is very likely the fires will start again.
Another source of common fires, is the hydraulic fluids burning out. This is very commonly seen in guncams, where an explosive cannon shell lands on certain sections of the plane - typically near the wing roots - and setting ablaze the hydraulics related with landing gears. These start a small, local fire at the wings, and then subsides and dies out as the hydraulic fluids are all spent.
Another simular incidence is when wing tanks with very little fuel left, catch fire and burn away, but not large enough to consume the whole plane, and eventually dies out.
IL2/FB depicts these fires - it's really cool to watch. You can see them most commonly on P-38s and Ki-84s.. the plane bursts into flames near the wings, and then after a while the flame dies out.