Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Aces High Bug Reports => Topic started by: storch on June 15, 2004, 08:18:58 AM
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While playing this am someone made the comment on Ch1 that the spit was even more rediculously anti gravity than in the AHI. A few of the players that were on agreed. Does anyone else hold this opinion?
I'm in a Spit IX right now and I can't do anything to stall it or cause it to lose level flight. You guys will need to address this "flaw". I'm at 60mph indicated and performing manuevers while maintaining altitude. What gives??
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Prove it by testing. A global statement like antigravite will get you no where. Fly the plane your self. Do some turns, zoom, what ever you think it is supper at,And document the performance. Then do the exact same test with other planes and compare the results.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
Prove it by testing. A global statement like antigravite will get you no where. Fly the plane your self. Do some turns, zoom, what ever you think it is supper at,And document the performance. Then do the exact same test with other planes and compare the results.
HiTech
Gee HiTech that sounds like your job. However I did have the stall limiter on once I turned it off it stalls. but it still retains E very very very very very very well. My curiousity was piqued when someone made the comment last night so others are saying the same thing.
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Storch,
:)
If you are trying to be helpful you need to remember you are, "Beta testing", this software, correct?
Then what HiTech asked would be your job as a Beta tester.
Regards,
Jeff
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Originally posted by jconradh
Storch,
:)
If you are trying to be helpful you need to remember you are, "Beta testing", this software, correct?
Then what HiTech asked would be your job as a Beta tester.
Regards,
Jeff
I have neither the expertise, time or the inclination to be a "beta tester" I posted an observation while playing the game. I have spent very little time in AHII while it's been in beta and wanted to check it out for a few spins. Overall I would say that it's different from AH I but not necessarily better. Time will tell.
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I disagree. Spit9 seems the same to me except that it doesn't have wep in an altitude band somewhere around 15k. I DO notice that pilots in fast B&Z planes are impacted by the new blackout model, and I wonder if that is what people are noticing. If you are really moving in a dive you can't pull as hard or as long without greying/blacking out. This definitely affects me when engaging a turn fighter and I'm in a p51/FW190D9/BF109G10/P47D/F4U. When flying a spit9 it feels 'floaty' by comparison to the above mentioned aircraft, due to it's relatively light wing loading. It also still has relatively poor accel, as it should.
Anyway - yesterday I (a total dweeb) defeated a Seafire with a fully loaded 109G10 (100%) fuel - going into vertical manoeuvers shortly after takeoff at low alt - after two loops spit floated in front of the 30mm at close range. BF109G10 is a scary plane. Spit driver must have thought I had an antigrav device to go with the lazer cannon.;)
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I'm in a Spit IX right now and I can't do anything to stall it or cause it to lose level flight.
...
However I did have the stall limiter on once I turned it off it stalls.
(http://www.raf315.org/phpBB2/images/smiles/lam.gif):rofl
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Originally posted by storch
I have neither the expertise, time or the inclination to be a "beta tester" I posted an observation while playing the game.
But you had the inclination to make a post about it, so ostensibly you'd like for us to check it out. Using hyperbole to describe something runs counter to why you would bother to post about it in the first place.
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Originally posted by Pyro
But you had the inclination to make a post about it, so ostensibly you'd like for us to check it out. Using hyperbole to describe something runs counter to why you would bother to post about it in the first place.
whatever. You guys are infallable so forward march with your attempts. Great graphics btw.
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Storch, quit backing away from your post.
1. You posted in the Open Beta Bug Reports, Therefor you have accepted being a beta tester.
2. In your post you make extravigant clames, with out even doing enough research to relize you had the stall limiter on.
3. When asked nicly to test it, you refused saying it is now HTC's job to be a beta tester.
4. When called on your premis you make a snide comment about us being infallible.
5. Now you realy expect us to take your post seriously?
HiTech
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Originally posted by storch
I have neither the expertise, time or the inclination to be a "beta tester" I posted an observation while playing the game. I have spent very little time in AHII while it's been in beta and wanted to check it out for a few spins. Overall I would say that it's different from AH I but not necessarily better. Time will tell.
If you got nothing to contribute, then why bother to post ?
This is a chance to have a impact on the final version of the game, I'd say if ya wanna help, then help,but don't tell HT "it's his job to test".
It s not, his job is to write code
It's our ( anyone who flys the beta) job to test
All he did was ask you to run some tests to confirm what what your saying and you basically refused, and not very nicely I might add.
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Originally posted by Flit
If you got nothing to contribute, then why bother to post ?
This is a chance to have a impact on the final version of the game, I'd say if ya wanna help, then help,but don't tell HT "it's his job to test".
It s not, his job is to write code
It's our ( anyone who flys the beta) job to test
All he did was ask you to run some tests to confirm what what your saying and you basically refused, and not very nicely I might add.
I wouldn't even know how to go about conducting or verifying the results. I didn't mean to sound rude and if it came off as rude then I apologize. I'm not very capable with a computer. So pardon me for posting if that was the criteria. Having said all that the spit hangs forever and while kills on them are possible they may hold an advantage undue them. So in the spirit of co-operation if someone would care to indicate what I must do to verify this claim then I am willing to try. I'm a welder and metalsmith I never even used a computer until one year ago. I hope this clears it up somewhat. I'm not known for backing down from anything there HT and I'm not backing down now.
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retracted. Going to test
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Storch. Simple test you can run.
Take a spit, Fly it level to a preset speed say 300.
Check your begining alt. Pull the spit straight up. When it falls off look at your alt.
Now repeat the above in a plane you like to fly. Starting at the same alt and speed.
Then ask your self, are the results fairly consistant. I.E. one plane may have and advantage in a zoom, but is it drasticly i.e. antigravity different?
HiTech
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I plan on taking you up on this offer once I can corner Wotan or someone to do some side by side flight testing.
I intend to mimic the 190A5 test done by the RAF, complete with running the Spits at lower boost than we have here.
I'll let you know the results.
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Urchin
If Wotans not on....give me a yell if I am. Will change sides
to help you test.
Hajo
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Need to find a detailed version of the test first, with what settings were used in the various tests. I think I've seen a link to one on here before, just have to find it.
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Originally posted by hitech
Storch. Simple test you can run.
Take a spit, Fly it level to a preset speed say 300.
Check your begining alt. Pull the spit straight up. When it falls off look at your alt.
Now repeat the above in a plane you like to fly. Starting at the same alt and speed.
Then ask your self, are the results fairly consistant. I.E. one plane may have and advantage in a zoom, but is it drasticly i.e. antigravity different?
HiTech
I'll try that.
Urchin if you want I'll do the side to side test with you
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I'm available now, if the arena is back up.
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Storch heres another test for ya. Up a spit V climb to 10K go level with yuor speed up then pull back right with full rudder let me know if you recovered before the ground came up to smack ya
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Gee.. I wish I could get THIS much attention from you HTC guys with MY bug in AH2.......................... ............................. .............................
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Urchin by trying it online with 2 planes at once you are already puting varience in the test. As planes slow down they will move in releation to each other do to net lag.
Much better to try offline with a stop watch, and write down the info.
HiTech
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I'm not going for exact measurements, more like comparisons between actual flight testing and flight testing conducted in game on AH2.
I honestly don't have the knowledge I'd need to do in-depth testing, but I can take general statements from real reports, fly the two planes side by side and see if the statements match the results I get here.
I'll post more when I'm done, but the general idea is this
Take up Spit 5 and 190A5. Compare dive speed, dive acceleration, zoom height (this one I may very well do myself, it isnt hard). Try to find statements like the following
"When both aircraft are pulled up into a climb from a dive, the FW 190 draws away very rapidly and the pilot of the Spitfire has no hope of catching it. " from http://www.odyssey.dircon.co.uk/VBv190.htm
and compare them to what we get in AH. By the way, the above statement seems very accurate from my first test of 190A5 vs Spit 5.
"Ifthe Spitfire VB is 'bounced' it is thought unwise to evade by diving steeply, as the FW 190 will have little difficulty in catching up owing to its superiority in the dive. "
This statement does not appear to match up well with AH2 in game testing.. the Spit V actually pulls away from the 190A5 in our tests from 5k and 10k.
Anyway, we'll then switch planes and repeat the tests. Then try the Spit 9 vs 190A5.
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
I wish I could get THIS much attention from you HTC guys with MY bug in AH2
Dude, WHat Bug is that?
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The dive testing might be off due to the "net lag" effect.
Seems as if whichever plane is in front pulls away from the back plane very slowly. The 190 does retain its zoom advantage though, although the Spitfire gains during the zoom if it is in the back, the 190 gains much faster and actually out-zooms the spit. At least when I'm flying it.
Going to try this a few more times.. the last dive & zoom from 5k the with the 190 in front, the Spitfire niether gained nor lost in the dive (lost initially, then gained back some as we bottomed out), but it stuck with the 190 in the zoom, losing no ground at all.
We probably the best test yet "form-wise" because both of us were purely vertical.
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From 5K level flight 300mph indicated acccording to the E6B after 3 attempts per aircraft
The SpitIX drops a wing at 8500ft the 190A5 at 7400ft with little variance on each attempt.
But the Spit should outclimb the A5 more interesting is the stuff Urchin is doing.
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Urchin, you have already proved the point. The spit is a good plane but dosn't have any overall drasticly different qualities. I.E. terms like antigrave do not aplly.
Why the back plane gains or drops back is net lag. Very simple to think of if you have 0.1 secs lag at 300 mph vs 0.1 secs lag at 100 mph, obviously the 0.1 secs lag with 200 mph differentc would equate to about 30 feet, 1 sec of lag would be 300 foot change.
HiTech
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One thing I've noticed is that the outer portion of the wing on spit v can be blown of, leaving the little stub and it can still be flown reasonably well i.e. can roll about its axis and land ok. Dunno if this is to be expected or not.
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Well, according to my solo tests, the 190A5 and Spit V match up pretty well with the test report.
All speeds are indicated speeds (the white line speed).
Here is what I tested
Straight Zoom
190A5 / Spit 5 / Spit 9
Starting alt-------------speed----------------------finish alt
200 feet--------------200 mph ind---------2,000 / 2,000 / nt
200 ft-----------------250 mph ind---------2,700 / 2,600 /2,800
200 ft-----------------300 mph ind---------3,700 / 3,500 / 3,700
200 ft-----------------350 mph ind---------4,400 / not tested
Dive & Zoom
Starting alt------------start speed-----------finish alt
5,000 ft-----------------300 mph----------7,400 / 6,500 / 6,800 ft
The 190A5 has a marked advantage in the zoom climb coming out of a dive. I used a 0-G dive for both planes. EDIT: The 8,800 was a screw-up... that was the finish alt from a 300-mph zoom from 5k, not from a dive n zoom. Note the P-47-D40 only got 6,700 feet out of a dive and zoom starting at 300 mph and 5k, I figured it would do better than that.
Fuel burn rate was set to .01.
I stand corrected. I've got no reason to doubt the Spit 9 is modelled correctly, and I apoligize for insinuating overwise.
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Well there you go...
Now try and sell that to Mandoble......
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urchin..
in ur dive & zoom test.. how low did u dive to?
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Originally posted by storch
From 5K level flight 300mph indicated acccording to the E6B after 3 attempts per aircraft
The SpitIX drops a wing at 8500ft the 190A5 at 7400ft with little variance on each attempt.
But the Spit should outclimb the A5 more interesting is the stuff Urchin is doing.
There ya go thats what we want to see :)
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I want to see ONE film of a super spit. I heard many tall tales but have not seen one film. And they DO stall, and very nasty stall when close to the ground. I wonder if spits aren't nastier because they're hanging around longer do to the gunnery.
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"I intend to mimic the 190A5 test done by the RAF"
Test comparing using german data - they are much more reliable than a beaten-up 190 that are not serviced and with no spare parts available.
There are a wealth of data from German, and finnish resources that had servicable
aircraft in their service.
save
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Save, I feel the comparison test made by the RAF are valid. The tests were done in good faith. The RAF were trying to find out info to save pilot's lives, not make the 190 look inferior than it really was.
The RAF had a number of 190's i believe.
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Edited original test, added spit 9 and fixed a messed up number in the 190s results.
Note the P-47D-40 only got 6,700 ft out of the dive n zoom, probably have to start higher up to see any real benefits from its added weight.
The Spit 9 and 190A5 appeared to have about the same terminal velocity in the dive, around 460-470 mph true (using the film viewer).
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Originally posted by save
"I intend to mimic the 190A5 test done by the RAF"
Test comparing using german data - they are much more reliable than a beaten-up 190 that are not serviced and with no spare parts available.
There are a wealth of data from German, and finnish resources that had servicable
aircraft in their service.
save
Also upon inspection the aileron alignement on the RAF test 190 was found to be off this was a critical error. A properly aligned 190 did not tip stall.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Note the P-47D-40 only got 6,700 ft out of the dive n zoom, probably have to start higher up to see any real benefits from its added weight.
in the dive and zoom test what speed did the P47 have at the beginning of the zoom? It's relatively a poor zoomer unless we are talking very high speeds where inertia is more important than power loading. At 300mph it doesn't out zoom the spit9 (NOTE: tested in AHI - haven't tested II yet).
Bozon
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300 mph was the P-47 test.
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Hey,
If we are Beta Testing, can i put this on my resume? :D