Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: TweetyBird on June 15, 2004, 11:35:31 PM
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For a simple reason - fights seem to last longer. It works both ways, I know. I'm sure my hit% has sunk to below 1, but I have had some of the best fights in AH2. There were a couple of engagements last night that would've ended in 15 seconds in AH1 when some lazer beam hit me from 800 out. But these engagements went on for minutes ( I think one lasted 5 minutes though it seemed like 20). Win or lose, that is the type of excitement I pay my $15 for. I'm sure people will adapt and lazer beams will be back in the MA. But I can enjoy this while it lasts :D
You know when you're in an engagement long enough to be dredging up old AW training lessons and strategies, you're having fun :) Good job HTC.
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Ditto here.
An excellent engagement with a P-51D today ended in a stalemate.
Just before both turning away from each other, I've succeeded in taking advantage of a extreme low-speed, low-alt brawl by luring it into a most harsh turn, and then starting to out-accelerate + out-climb it, and pull a heart-pounding immelmann. When the P-51D finished the turn, it was behind me at about 400 or so initially. The distance spread over to 600, 800.. as I climbed/accelerated away.
Were it in AH1, the long range sniping aspect of gunnery would have killed me within 5 seconds. It would have been a real bitter and frustrating ending for otherwise an excellent fight.
However, thx to AH2 gunnery, difference in acceleration and climb now really mean something even at close-quarters. If your acceleration is more poweful than your adversary, you can even sometimes escape away starting from 200 yards if you are blessed with a bit of luck.
Some say that it will change when people get used to it, but I personally think that it will still be more or less difficult than compared to AH1.
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Agree, puts more of the fight into pilot skill & less into 700 yard luck shots.
They still happen but not as close and not as often.
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On the flip side, as it draws out some of those fights, it allows some hordemonkey(s) to swoop in for a cherry and save their buddy who would have been dead earlier.
:rolleyes:
this *will* have an impact on gameplay of some kind, only time will tell in what manner.
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On the flip side, as it draws out some of those fights, it allows some hordemonkey(s) to swoop in for a cherry and save their buddy who would have been dead earlier.
Shane - wasn't that what your country men were supposed to do?
"Hey look, Jimmy's got a zero on his six! I'm coming buddy!"
And shouldn't you know when its better to break off an engagement when you're getting saddled up? Part of situational awareness I would think. (not that mine's any good.)
Correct me if I'm wrong.:D
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I agree that it improves gameplay. You don't have to make wild evasives to avoid HOs anymore. High deflection shots are actually difficult - it actually makes sense to make a break turn into an attack. It definitely seems to have reduced the popularity of the Spitfire by a bit, and increased that of the 109, 190 and Yak.
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One observation I would offer is this. Now that laser shots and instant snapshot kills rarely occur (a good thing), I seem to be seeing many more cannon planes rather than MG planes flying.
Is it possible that the tougher gunnery will actually induce some players to fly the Spit, La7, N1K, 190, Yak planeset even more ?
I hope not. I flew the P40-E around a little bit this past week and it was actually fun.
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Ditto here too- I've had some great long dogfights - a most memorable one with a superb pilot called 'Noburu' high over mountainous terrain which ended in stalemate. He was in a FW190A and I in a P51-D. He had just dispatched another Rook in a one-on-one as I flew co-alt into the area. He used tactics which I've read about in real encounters with FW190s - shallow climbs followed by 'flick turns'. Neither could get an advantage for a long time (I'm a weak dogfighter), but the P51 has an energy advantage and eventually he drifted through my sights at 90 degrees. I damaged his engine with a lucky shot. I was so impressed by his exceptional skill and fighting spirit that I broke off the fight at that point, though he was willing to continue even with a smoking engine. He made it back to base or ditched successfully. I'm going to see if I can learn that nifty 'flick' turn tactic. I look forward to meeting him again. P.S. he never attempted to HO me, even though the 'Butcher Bird' is ideal for that tactic.
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On the down side, if you like to fly slow planes all a faster opponent has to do is dive @ full throttle, and the engagement is over, you'll never get close enough for a kill. It'll be a more boring game for me if no one flies anything but a handfull of fast planes.
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Originally posted by Hyrax81st
I seem to be seeing many more cannon planes rather than MG planes flying.
Guilty. Without cannons I get assists not kills.
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One observation I would offer is this. Now that laser shots and instant snapshot kills rarely occur (a good thing), I seem to be seeing many more cannon planes rather than MG planes flying.
Is it possible that the tougher gunnery will actually induce some players to fly the Spit, La7, N1K, 190, Yak planeset even more ?
I hope not. I flew the P40-E around a little bit this past week and it was actually fun.
That's a very interesting question Hyrax.
If any one remembers, I've analyzed the reason for such high popularity in Spitfires and N1K2s previously when comparing IL2 series with AH.
Obviously such "well balanced" planes - usually, planes with a spectacular mix of average speed and excellent maneuverability - do also exist in IL2 series. In the recent add-on of AEP Spitfires have also been added to the roster. But what intrigued me was that these planes are relatively unpopular in FB/AEP than compared to AH.
My theory, was that in AH1 the planes were hitting out to very far distances than compared inreal life, whereas FB/AEP gunnery model limited the 'effective range(not 'effective' as in machine specs, but 'effective' as in a reasonable distance to expect real kills..) of planes to more realistic levels.
The planes like the Spitfire 9 and the N1K2 have average speed. With a bit of altitude advantage it is capable of coming within 500~600 yards of any plane, and it had a chance to shoot them down in AH1. However, they are rarely fast enough to come within 300 yards or so.
Since AH1 allowed easy/regular kills at the former listed range, those planes were a very popular choice despite its lacking speed. In FB, those same(or simular) planes, weren't fast enough to come within some 200~300 meters to actually kill a faster enemy plane.
After change in the gunnery, AH2 is now more or less simular to FB/AEP, and I distinctively feel a change in plane usage - it would need actual confirmation with statistics after AH2 is officially in service.. but empirically, the Spitfires and N1K2s do seem to be much less popular and abundant than it was. So I would expect that despite cannon armament, Spitfires and N1K2s will be less popular than it was in AH1.
The La-7 and Yak-9U seem to be a logical choice in combat as they are both very fast and maneuverable, but these two planes are plagued by another factor - limited flight range. They are still very excellent planes as short-range point defense fighters, and skirmishers between two hostile bases... but they are definately not suited for CAP missions above enemy bases. Yak-9U usage would be more or less the same, but the La-7s also seem much unpopular than comapred to AH1.
In turn, like you've pointed out the Fw190 and the Bf109 indeed seems to be much more popular than it ever was.. with the former being practically a German version of P-51D with cannons, and the latter a very fast, relatively nimble, medium-ranged(with use of DTs or throttle management) fighter which posesses incredible tactical value due to its capability to climb like mad.
So, my guess is, if there is any fighter which tougher gunnery, along with various many factors in work, has induced players to use more, its the 190s and 109s.
AH2, is now definately an arena which is heavily dependant on late-war planes to be competitive. Being in a slow plane has some serious disadvantages, and being in a slow plane with only MGs, seem to be a very large disadvantage.
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Great analysis, Kweassa...
I have also noticed that F4U's seem to be more competitive in AH2 than they were before and they exhibit those traits that you describe. Ability to close like mad and really get in to good killing range (200-300), stay with you in the vertical and turn on a dime. We may see more of those flying - even the MG only variety...
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IMO it's another type/mixture of players in FB than in AH1. Hard to find a 50+ players furball with a limit of 32 in one arena. :D
Secondly, FB has other very popular planes, that have the same status like N1K2 or Spitfires.
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Originally posted by Shane
On the flip side, as it draws out some of those fights, it allows some hordemonkey(s) to swoop in for a cherry and save their buddy who would have been dead earlier.
:rolleyes:
this *will* have an impact on gameplay of some kind, only time will tell in what manner.
Guess i'm a "hordemonkey" then, cause if i'm disengaged and a country-mate is in trouble (i'll usually ask if he needs help 1st if it isn't obvious, i.e. 2 NME on him) i'm calling "IN" on the bogey. He can disengage, be killed, or fight. Its the way its supposed to work.
Some of the best fights i've had in AH2 were with multiple enemies vs a few of us. Using the ground clutter and new icon system you can dissapear for a moment and your enemy doen't have a minute to reaquire (else he gets waxed floating around). I think all in all its a great improvement, but then again I want two countries, historical planes, and NO icons outside of 1000.. hehe
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flying the hurr-c and FM2 the a few days ago in AH2 beta main i was unable to even get close to any plane
i was able to get close with the zero but it took some climbing and diving and even then it was still very hard
i feel that what your seeing in the AH2 beta main is just all the skilled and old flyers thats why your seeing all these fast fighters not many spit5's and nik hords as in AH1
but i do feel slower planes well suffer and faster planes well become more used
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I think you might see La7s remaining favourites for base defence where climbing like a monkey and cannon make mince meat out of Jabo attacks - since range isn't an issue.
Spits can fight low so they'll probably be useful there too.
But if you're looking to range out and actually attack an enemy airfield you'll need something with longer legs.
so P38s, 51s, anything with drop tanks, get used in a manner closer to their historical intent: as long range fighter/attack aircraft.
my two cents.:cool:
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>>After change in the gunnery, AH2 is now more or less simular to FB/AEP, and I distinctively feel a change in plane usage - it would need actual confirmation with statistics after AH2 is officially in service.. but empirically, the Spitfires and N1K2s do seem to be much less popular and abundant than it was. So I would expect that despite cannon armament, Spitfires and N1K2s will be less popular than it was in AH1. <<
I agree with you. I was in two different type battles tonight. Furball and base defense. In both instances, the spit 9 is looking weak. Planes just accelerate out of range (which is pretty short now). I got in a few scissors with 51's and they just split s and pull away. I love the fun of a spit, but I know I will be switching to a late model (fast late model) plane. I kind of hate to though - Etch is the handle of a spit pilot not a 51 or 190 pilot . Guess I'll have to think of a new handle to wax philisophical while alting and surveying the lesser life forms beneath me :D
"Master Strous, do you see that spit woddling below us?"
"Why yes, Demi, why do they allow those vagabonds in here?"
I dunno, maybe it was just a bad golf night, but the spit really impressed me as inferior tonight - not by the losing, but by the only kills I got was when someone made extremely gross errors.
It was much more usual to see someone just pull away when things got hairy. Kinda felt like a minibike in a Harley race.
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On the weekend, I went for a bit of a blirt around in the old Hurricane 1 with Viyking.
My previous tactic was to close to 300-200 yards and just unload a big burst of 8x303s.
In AH2 I was sitting right behind the enemy and couldnt hit SQUAT.
Hehehehe
I like.
I havnt figured out how to hit anything with the .303s yet. I like that :D
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i have no idea what you all are talking about, i have no problem hitting planes, infact it feels exactly like AH1
in my first sortie after i finished twicking with my video settings i nailed 4 cons then had to rtb cause of gas.
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Another thing is, that you can not set your gun convergence
to long distances and expect to get much result.
I found myself readjusting all my settings back to
short distances. Time will show if its better.
mrniel
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I think the new gunnery system rocks. :aok
About time they did away with 1000 yard shooting.
Now you have to close to within reasonable guns range. Like under D300.
For all the things I don't like about AH2, the gunnery model more than makes up for the down side.
Yep you can actually fight and not get cherry picked from D800.
BTW, the 6 50s on the Pony still seem like a very potent guns package, although not as mean as they were in AH1.
I'll stick with the Pony D, it has great views, adequate guns, fastern just about any prop plane at 12K, lots of fuel, and the abilty to deploy maneuvering flaps at over 400 mph, all make it a very competative package. Plus it looks so cool :cool: