Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: WHATTHEHELL on June 16, 2004, 06:05:35 PM

Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: WHATTHEHELL on June 16, 2004, 06:05:35 PM: Have been away from AH now for 6 months. If anything would bring me back would be this plane. I don't care about late war performance I just love this ride. oh and it had better be a b model :aok

AHGOD
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: Replicant on June 16, 2004, 06:44:47 PM: Oh yeah, the Me410 is one sweet looking plane, perhaps the best looking of all German planes imo! :)

Was lucky to see one at Cosford museum. Be interesting to see those rear guns modelled.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/44_1087429412_410.jpg)
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: moot on June 17, 2004, 12:04:42 AM: deflection heaven!
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: -tronski- on June 17, 2004, 03:59:13 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Replicant
Oh yeah, the Me410 is one sweet looking plane, perhaps the best looking of all German planes imo! :)

Was lucky to see one at Cosford museum. Be interesting to see those rear guns modelled.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/44_1087429412_410.jpg)

wow, that museum looks like it has a few interesting a/c....love a closer look at that mossie and is that a Ju88 or 109 tail behind that Me262??

Tronsky
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: Karnak on June 17, 2004, 09:44:36 AM: I'd love to see an Me410 in AH. More food for my Mossie. ;)

Nah, the Me410 is a very nice aircraft and I'd actually fly it now and then.
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: brady on June 17, 2004, 10:05:40 AM: I got to put my PAW on the one at the Pauel E Garber facility a couple years ago, just washed my hand yester day in fact:), I wounder if they have put it on desplay at the new museum???
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: Replicant on June 17, 2004, 05:34:42 PM: Quote
Originally posted by -tronski-
wow, that museum looks like it has a few interesting a/c....love a closer look at that mossie and is that a Ju88 or 109 tail behind that Me262??

Tronsky

It's at the RAF Museum at Cosford. The Me262 is now at RAF Museum at Hendon. The only plane I can see behind the Mossie is a Catalina? I think they have a Storch there and a Ki67. They have many experimental jets and a huge collection of guided weapons, especially WW2 German guided bombs/missiles/rockets etc.
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: -tronski- on June 17, 2004, 10:31:59 PM: Above the 410's rear stab, and below the 262's tail....can swear it's a german tail dragger..thought it may have been a ju88 tail shape...but I thought the only complete Ju88 was in the RAF museum at hendon

Tronsky
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: moot on June 18, 2004, 01:07:17 AM: Anyone have a picture of the glass cockpit section?
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: Replicant on June 18, 2004, 03:56:05 AM: Quote
Originally posted by -tronski-
Above the 410's rear stab, and below the 262's tail....can swear it's a german tail dragger..thought it may have been a ju88 tail shape...but I thought the only complete Ju88 was in the RAF museum at hendon

Tronsky

Ah, my screen must be too dark to see it. I managed to find another pic with the aircraft in - it's a Fiesler Storch.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/44_1087550170_storch.jpg)
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: Replicant on June 18, 2004, 04:20:40 AM: Quote
Originally posted by moot
Anyone have a picture of the glass cockpit section?

These are the best I have until I return to Cosford.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/44_1087550284_410a1.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/44_1087550316_410a2.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/44_1087550396_410a3.jpg)
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: frank3 on June 18, 2004, 10:46:50 AM: what sat in it's nose? landing light? camera?
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: Pyro on June 18, 2004, 11:23:29 AM: Quote
Originally posted by frank3
what sat in it's nose? landing light? camera?

It's a FLIR system. J/K, it's just a windshield nose panel.
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: Wotan on June 18, 2004, 11:52:25 AM: How would you model the rear gun site?

Seems like a near impossible task....
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: Replicant on June 18, 2004, 12:18:45 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
How would you model the rear gun site?

Seems like a near impossible task....

Only way I can think of is how the PT Rockets are aimed; by selecting that gunner mode and then elevate up and down accordingly and then best guess.

Did the Me410 have an aiming aid to help with those guns? If so, know how it was set up?
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: Pyro on June 18, 2004, 01:59:53 PM: Wotan, I'm not sure how we'll do it. I'm guessing we'll make it take up 2 gun positions so that the first position has you looking through the left sight and the second position has you looking through the right sight.
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: brady on June 18, 2004, 02:50:48 PM: "Wotan, I'm not sure how we'll do it. I'm guessing we'll make it take up 2 gun positions so that the first position has you looking through the left sight and the second position has you looking through the right sight."

WoooHooo, I had hoped that you could find a way:)
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: Furious on June 18, 2004, 02:57:12 PM: mmmMMM, 6 Mg151 and 4 Mg17 all in the nose.

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/482_1087588296_me410b.jpg)

ps. The barbettes are damn cool little peices of machinery. I do wonder though how many kills were achieved with them.
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: GScholz on June 18, 2004, 04:22:32 PM: The 410's got one of the coolest looking cockpits I've seen. Excellent view for deflection shooting too.

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/245_1079730091_wrg0237.jpg)

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/245_1079730147_wrg0236.jpg)
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: WHATTHEHELL on June 18, 2004, 04:52:49 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Pyro
Wotan, I'm not sure how we'll do it. I'm guessing we'll make it take up 2 gun positions so that the first position has you looking through the left sight and the second position has you looking through the right sight.

Woohoo, not to be overly optimstic but that sounds very encouraging. You could model it like the Ju 88 gunner?
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: WHATTHEHELL on June 18, 2004, 04:56:13 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Furious
mmmMMM, 6 Mg151 and 4 Mg17 all in the nose.

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/482_1087588296_me410b.jpg)

ps. The barbettes are damn cool little peices of machinery. I do wonder though how many kills were achieved with them.

I know of a P-38 being shot down by them, will have to dig it up but he was an ace I believe.
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: GScholz on June 18, 2004, 05:02:27 PM: How about modelling the guns like ordinary turrets, but add one dummy "turret" as a gun director in the back seat, just like on the bombers when your selected gun is dry, but the other turrets keep firing.
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: OntosMk1 on June 18, 2004, 05:19:47 PM: The open bay on the 410 is the bomb-bay. Yeah I know odd place to put it but *shrug* what can ya do. They put all types of crap in that space. Gun pods, multiple rocket launchers, BIG cannons, MORE guns. :D From what I've read the 210 and 410 didnt have a very good track record compaired to the 110. I wont go into details due to me not having hard facts to show yall. I know all too well that if you dont have anything to back your claims up on here the "Vultures" will tear you apart with a blink of an eye:eek:
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: Pei on June 18, 2004, 06:18:02 PM: Quote
Originally posted by OntosMk1
The open bay on the 410 is the bomb-bay. Yeah I know odd place to put it but *shrug* what can ya do. They put all types of crap in that space. Gun pods, multiple rocket launchers, BIG cannons, MORE guns. :D From what I've read the 210 and 410 didnt have a very good track record compaired to the 110. I wont go into details due to me not having hard facts to show yall. I know all too well that if you dont have anything to back your claims up on here the "Vultures" will tear you apart with a blink of an eye:eek:

The 210 had some severe handling problems and was not very successful (though the Hungarians had a few and seemed to like them). The 410 fixed these problems and was used successfully as a hit and run bomber (often at night) and it also made an appearance in Defence of the Reich operations (often with extra guns in the weapon bay to take out 4-engine bombers). It was never converted for night fighter use (not sure why as it would have helped close the performance gap with the NF Mosquitos - perhaps the nose/cockpit configuration was not suitable). The 410s suffered from the drive to produce only critical types of aircraft (i.e. single seat fighters and night fighters for home defence) led by Albert Speer at the end of the War.
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: WHATTHEHELL on June 19, 2004, 05:55:28 PM: Quote
Originally posted by OntosMk1
The open bay on the 410 is the bomb-bay. Yeah I know odd place to put it but *shrug* what can ya do. They put all types of crap in that space. Gun pods, multiple rocket launchers, BIG cannons, MORE guns. :D From what I've read the 210 and 410 didnt have a very good track record compaired to the 110. I wont go into details due to me not having hard facts to show yall. I know all too well that if you dont have anything to back your claims up on here the "Vultures" will tear you apart with a blink of an eye:eek:

The 210 was not a failure, in the hands of the HUngarians it was quite succesful on the Russian front. Yes the initial batches were a failure, but after they were corrected they were quite useful. The 410 on the other hand played a part in just about everything, and can be deemed a success. Granted a lot of pilots did not like the cockpit placement, same with the 219. SHe is a beaut and she can pack a ton of weapons. Also the Multiple (6) rocket launcher in the bombay was never used in combat.
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: Octavius on June 20, 2004, 01:17:52 PM: I can now die a happy man :)
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: KG45 on June 20, 2004, 05:53:43 PM: IIRC - the 410 is the 210 with all the kinks worked out. they changed the name for propoganda purposes.
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: LLv34_Snefens on June 21, 2004, 05:00:15 AM: Mmmmmmm 410

The 210 suffered from some instability in flight, but this was solved by lengthening the rear fuselage and slight changes to the wings. New engines were fitted and that was the 410.

The hungarian 210 (named Me 210Ca-1) had the airframe changes done as well eventually, but the engines were not upgraded to 410 standard.
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: AVRO1 on June 21, 2004, 09:09:01 AM: 6x21 cm Rockets (Tested but results were poor) :(
1xBK5 (21 rounds)
2xMK108, 2xMK103 or 4xMG151 in gun pack
4x500 kg Bombs (Is this accurate?)
2 in under nose like 110G2 plus two on wings?

This plane is a ground pounder's dream come true. :D
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: moot on June 21, 2004, 11:57:42 AM: Looks like a good time to add the MK103 to the game...
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: Replicant on June 21, 2004, 01:35:12 PM: Quote
Originally posted by moot
Looks like a good time to add the MK103 to the game...

What's the Mk103? That the inferior 30mm Mk108?
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: JB73 on June 21, 2004, 01:56:13 PM: replicant, i think its an even more powerful 30mm than the 108 (but dont quote me on that).

i do know the mk103 had a higher muzzle velocity. in the 800's compared to the 500's of the mk108

i believe the 103 was more of a tank attack round also.
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: moot on June 21, 2004, 02:38:34 PM: in AH2 the main differences would be slower ROF, but higher round velocity//trajectory.
We'd have a 30mm with 20mm reach, at least.

The pros can comment...

some basics:

MK108 MK103
ROF: 660/min 420/min
MuzzleV: 540mps 860mps
Weight: 64kg 146kg
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: JB73 on June 21, 2004, 03:02:19 PM: Quote
Originally posted by moot
in AH2 the main differences would be slower ROF, but higher round velocity//trajectory.
We'd have a 30mm with 20mm reach, at least.

The pros can comment...

some basics:

MK108 MK103
ROF: 660/min 420/min
MuzzleV: 860mps 540mps
Weight: 64kg 146kg
[/B]
you got those mps # backwards from what i have read

the 103 has the higher mps but lower rof.

here's a mps source:

http://users.belgacom.net/artillery/artillerie/1922.html

also how did you get the tab breaks in that "chart" above you made??
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: moot on June 21, 2004, 03:28:29 PM: oops, that's right.

use the [code] tag for true .txt formatting.
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: JB73 on June 21, 2004, 03:30:46 PM: Testing a chart: for fun
Item 1 data 1
Item 2 data 2
Item 3 data 3
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: WHATTHEHELL on June 21, 2004, 08:35:56 PM: Quote
Originally posted by moot
in AH2 the main differences would be slower ROF, but higher round velocity//trajectory.
We'd have a 30mm with 20mm reach, at least.

The pros can comment...

some basics:

MK108 MK103
ROF: 660/min 420/min
MuzzleV: 860mps 540mps
Weight: 64kg 146kg
[/B]

Muzzle Velocity is backwards me thinks. The 103 can hit out from further then the 20mm. It is the uber buff killer.
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: GScholz on June 21, 2004, 08:44:31 PM: The MK103 used the same shells as the MK108, but with a much larger propellant charge. The MK103 in AH would be like a slower firing MK108 with the ballistics of a .50 cal.
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: moot on June 22, 2004, 08:33:42 AM: yes, the first table had the muzzlev's switched, it's now corrected.
Title: How bout that ME-410?
Post by: moot on June 22, 2004, 08:38:00 AM: Come on HTC, the 190F8 is bare compared to the RL F8, the Il2 has also relatively few of all the stuff it used....

Whaddayasay to an me410 with optional 103s.... easy addition and huge returns right? :-)