Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Karnak on June 20, 2004, 03:40:58 PM
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Most of you know of my preference for the Mossie. Now the AH2 gunnery changes (really target changes, but they affect gunnery results) has made killing other aircraft noticably more of a challenge than it was in AH1. I have had repeated instances where the quad of Hispanos in AH1 had conditioned me to be used to instant death and dismemberment on my target where in AH2 the targeted single engined fighter got through my crossing shot with a single hit to the wing and no negative effects. I have had Spits, and N1K2 and an La-7 all do this. I killed an F6F-5 with a high deflection tracking shot with which I hit four times, taking off his elevators and verticle stabilizer. In AH1 I am sure I would have hit him hard enough to at the very least break his back. Luckily for me there was no kill stealer to take the kill as it fell 8,000ft.
Well, last night I was flying my usual big fighter when I had a fight with another Mossie. What I came away from that fight was the realization that I had no trouble hitting it. It was like I was playing AH1 again. I drilled the enemy Mossie and it broke apart into it's major componets, a tail, two wings split and the front fuselage. It was an incredibly easy kill.
I was also killed twice by an La-7 and once by a P-38L. One of the La-7 kills occured after I tried to rope-a-dope the La-7 and was undone by the Mossie's horrible, horrible stall characteristics. In both that death and the P-38's kill I was hit relatively lightly but set ablaze as the Mossie demonstrated it's zippo light effect.
I do not know if P-38L and Bf110 pilots have likewise noted a change in their fortunes where most of their oponents have become markedly harder targets, but where they are no harder to hit than they were owing to the large size of their aircraft. I would be interested in feedback in this regard though.
Now, what I am driving at is the need to switch to a agile (no P-47 s please) single enginged fighter. If we had the Spitfire LF.Mk VIII, Spitfire LF.Mk IX or Ki-84-I-Ko I would probably select it. In fact it is tempting to bank on the Ki-84 showing up in AH v2.01. However, I'd like some reccomendations as to a fighter I should learn to use now. I'm kind of leaning towards the Fw190A-5, except it is so slow. The Fw190D-9 might be a workable choice though.
Thoughts on any of this?
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Hmm.. tough one.
How about the Yak-9U?
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i had one time the la7 who was hovering had a better stdy shot on me and kicked me at d600 i couldnt get a hit.on it (rope a dope situation)
also a la7 easily got a deflection shot on me at d800
does it seems the gunnery on the la7 works better now?? i don't know
i don't wanna test the La 7 coz theres been not ever buried a good dog in it :)
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don't give up on the mossie yet karnak, i feel it's a better ride than the mossie in AH 1.
Made a fantastic kill yesterday, i wish i had filmed it. I spotted a spit diving on me from 1.5k, so i entered a dive...he got closer and closer...until d600 so i levelled and extended to 1.5k. I went vertical and the spit got closer.....d1000....d800...d6 00.....then i noticed him starting to flounder...however so was I. Damn i wish the mossie was more forgiving... i was really fighting not to enter a spin.....after maybe a few seconds i finally got the nose down, with the spit (by sheer luck may i add) directly in my crosshairs @ d200.:) The poor spitty didn't stand a chance!:)
Karnak, have you flown the spit14 much? (i know you like it ;) ) it's a very nice ride...shame it's a perk ride though.
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Originally posted by Karnak
I do not know if P-38L and Bf110 pilots have likewise noted a change in their fortunes where most of their oponents have become markedly harder targets, but where they are no harder to hit than they were owing to the large size of their aircraft. I would be interested in feedback in this regard though.
Thoughts on any of this?
The P-38 is only a large target from above or below. It's profile is very slim compared to single engine fighters and that seems to have a positive effect with how the gunnery now in AH2. The only thing really negative thing I've noticed on P-38 is how easily the tail will become damaged now. Hit turbulance and you've lost an elevator or rudder/stabilizer.
ack-ack
ack-ack
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P51B and D are beautiful - the B handling best, but being lightly armed. But the new conditions in AHII mean that you need to shoot in closer than before, and at 250 yards, the 4x.50s are adequate, especially versus 109s in the CT.
The 109G10 is excellent, esp. with the 30mm gun. And don't dismiss the P47s before trying them out - they have fared well in the transition to AHII, and 8x.50s give a dense shot pattern. I had a great 1-on-1 in a P47d-25 vs. TA152 in which the 47 had a noticeable edge in manoeuverability. Too bad I was winchester at the time.
FW190D9 is also impressive, though I have scant experience in it.
I took up a N1k once recently for base defence and was amazed at it's performance and deadly armament, collecting 5 quick kills before getting dismembered in a low alt furball. Heck, there are a lot of great fighters to choose from. Try 'em all and give us your opinion!
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Just started with the Spit14 this weekend - very, very nice.
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don't give up on the mossie. it's WAY better than in AHI. Bleeds E badly in turns, but that could work both ways, and diving acceleration is awsome!
The stall is bad. high speed snap rolls the mossie and also creates some fast yaw spin and you end up in some unknown direction.
The slow stall is another tricky business. If you stall with nose high and power at idle, you get into a flat spin. BUT!
do the same thing with nose pointed high, hit full throttle and hard rudder RIGHT (left don't work), maybe add some flaps. You can flip it 180 with no turn radius and stall fight at 150mph. I had many on the deck knife fights with La5s in the beta and the mossie held it's own.
about guns lethality, I find that most guns do less structural damage now, but I get a lot of pilot kills (just a feeling, I could be mistaken).
As for different planes - aside from the mossie, I find the F4u-1 fun to fly in AHII (and now it comes in lovely RAF colours).
Bozon
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Originally posted by Karnak
Most of you know of my preference for the Mossie. Now the AH2 gunnery changes (really target changes, but they affect gunnery results) has made killing other aircraft noticably more of a challenge than it was in AH1. I have had repeated instances where the quad of Hispanos in AH1 had conditioned me to be used to instant death and dismemberment on my target where in AH2 the targeted single engined fighter got through my crossing shot with a single hit to the wing and no negative effects. I have had Spits, and N1K2 and an La-7 all do this. I killed an F6F-5 with a high deflection tracking shot with which I hit four times, taking off his elevators and verticle stabilizer. In AH1 I am sure I would have hit him hard enough to at the very least break his back. Luckily for me there was no kill stealer to take the kill as it fell 8,000ft.
Well, last night I was flying my usual big fighter when I had a fight with another Mossie. What I came away from that fight was the realization that I had no trouble hitting it. It was like I was playing AH1 again. I drilled the enemy Mossie and it broke apart into it's major componets, a tail, two wings split and the front fuselage. It was an incredibly easy kill.
I was also killed twice by an La-7 and once by a P-38L. One of the La-7 kills occured after I tried to rope-a-dope the La-7 and was undone by the Mossie's horrible, horrible stall characteristics. In both that death and the P-38's kill I was hit relatively lightly but set ablaze as the Mossie demonstrated it's zippo light effect.
I do not know if P-38L and Bf110 pilots have likewise noted a change in their fortunes where most of their oponents have become markedly harder targets, but where they are no harder to hit than they were owing to the large size of their aircraft. I would be interested in feedback in this regard though.
Now, what I am driving at is the need to switch to a agile (no P-47 s please) single enginged fighter. If we had the Spitfire LF.Mk VIII, Spitfire LF.Mk IX or Ki-84-I-Ko I would probably select it. In fact it is tempting to bank on the Ki-84 showing up in AH v2.01. However, I'd like some reccomendations as to a fighter I should learn to use now. I'm kind of leaning towards the Fw190A-5, except it is so slow. The Fw190D-9 might be a workable choice though.
Thoughts on any of this?
If you want to fly a big planes then you want to consider the types of evasives and moves you chose to make.
You can do this by watching film of your sorties. You don't want offer any plane form or off angle shots where by you are the largest target.
In scissors practice rolling under your down side wing. Doing this will put your reverse under the attackers gunsite.
Practice neg g escapes etc.....
There are few things you can do but p38s and mossies 110s etc are large targets.
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thrila,
My last death last night to an La-7 was very, VERY much like your Spit kill, except that I ended up d400 in front of the La-7. I saw him flop over D1000 below me and tried to pull my nose over to dive on him, but I entered a flat stall that I only escaped by using rudder and flaps. I dove away from him, and had pulled the range out to d800 by the time I ran out of altitude. After that it was all in the La-7 pilot's hands. Unless I get the fight REALLY fast or am on fumes I cannot dfeat a competently flown La-7. The same pilot, fw190r11, was the La-7 pilot that killed me both times last night.
As to the Spitfire Mk XIV. No, I gave up on it once they reduced it's climbrate in AH2. It can't run, it can't climb and it's performance once the five minute WEP is gone is crappy at best yet everytime I have ever flown it I have been gangbanged like I'd flown my Mossie into a sector with a large red bar and no green. If I try to fight at altitude where it is strong, everthing just dives away down to the mob and I end up either following and dying, or going home when my fuel gets low. In my hands the Spitfire Mk XIV is worse than useless, it is incredibly frusterating. The only perk plane I will consider using anymore is the Me262.
kweassa,
I flew the Yak-9U in AH1 as my P-51D killer, but Russian and American aircraft just really aren't my thing. I will not fly the La-7. I have come to truely loath La-7s.
fluffy,
I have flown the P-51B, but it is American and American aircraft just don't capture my imagination. Overexposure I guess. The N1K2 is too slow. I get frusterated feeding off of La-7 and P-51D hand me downs for kills. Spit IX has the same problem, as does the Spit V.
I'm being very contrary I can tell. It was just discouraging how much worse the Mossie performs in AH2 and how easy it was to kill. The fact that it is still the zippo ligher of AH, even moreso than either A6M, doesn't help. I just hate flying for ten minutes, getting a kill or two and then dying all in 30 seconds of action with the feeling that there is nothing I can do to stay alive. I get above the enemy, dive into attack, pull up, see that a higher enemy has arrived, watch the higher enemy always go for the MOSS icon as though it were a perk plane and then die fifteen seconds later after all evasives prove worthless.
The odd thing is that I wasn't having this kind of trouble during the beta.
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I'm liking the 190a8 in AH2. 2 30mm and 2 20mm is enough to kill in a snapshot, and it is a much smaller target than the 110G2, although I'm pretty sure the 110g2 turns somewhat better.
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i think that giving up the plane you adore for something else is sad.:(
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The Dora is a very nice ride, but your gonna have a tought time making the gunnery transition from hispanos to Mg151s. Every time I get into a 190 I shoot too low, it seems the shells roll outta the barrels and imediately start dropping:(
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I'm not a big fan of the Dora in this version. I wasn't an especially big fan of it in AH1, but you could fight in a pinch in it. In Ah2.. I'm wobbling all over the sky at 175.
The 190a's on the other hand seem much more stable and more manueverable than in AH1. Plus the A8 kills stuff fast.
I'd rate the A8's fighting capability at about what the A5 was in AH1, but with a lot more firepower.
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i use the MOSS for strike dont use it much for Air to Air
the plane is a strike craft not a fighter not saying it cant be used in that role it just you will allways have your hands full when going out for air to air work
infact the BF110G2 is alot better dogfighter it holds E alot better then the MOSS and it has the Firepower :D
climbs better to
if i was you i would try using the MOSS for strike and use the BF110G2 for fighter if you insist on using a big aircraft that is
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the A5 is on steroids compared to the AH1 imo.
i haven't tried the 109G2 in AH2, but my god that thing was one of the best fighter planes i ever flew in AH1. in 1 week alone in the CT i got 22 kills with like 10 deaths.
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I've found that the Dora is really a nice plane in this version. It's one big disadvantage I saw in AH1 was that it couldn't make deflection shots, or long range shots with much sucess. Well now nothing else can either. If you take full fuel and a drop tank you get about as much endurance as a P-51D gets with no drop tanks. Also the lower numbers of LA-7s and the fact that they can't chase you long without running out of fuel really helps.
I'm really surprised by the Spit XIV. Now that the gangbangers can't pick you off from 1000 yards and every other plane isn't an LA-7 it's quite effective. With both of these planes I've been using a drop tank and just WEP climbing until I get some good altitude under me ... then I'm left with full internal fuel to fight on and I've landed 5 kill sorties in both without having to rearm.
If you want a lot of speed, and don't like US or Soviet aircraft, these are your best bet I would say (or the Tempest if you can stand ponying up for one every sortie).
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All 190's are a bit better in AH2, they all accelerate slightly better and zoom better.
Karnak, I don't think getting used to 190's may be a good thing as Pyro have said in another thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=119961&goto=newpost) that he wants to redo the intire 190 series sometimes soon.
That is also one reason I don't fly the 190 as much as I used to, I'm just afraid I will get used to what it is now and then have to readjust to something intierly different.
Try a 109 G10 if you're looking for a nimble fast fighter that still takes alot of skill to master. If you want less speed try other 109's. The F4 turns like the devil.
P51's are exelent aswell + it's got 50 cal guns.
One last recomendation... the 205! One of the most underestimated planes in AH, good armament in close (where you more or less have to shoot in AH2), very good diving capebilities aswell as good turn and good climb rate. Alot of ammo. Few people fly it = more status ;)
Try it, give it a few flights, very very nice plane.
As for having a harder time hitting snapshots, yes... try the single 30mm on the 109 :)
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Well as an La7 and La5 pilit and one whose gunnery generally sucks.......... and sucks even more now in AH2..........
There seems to me to be a significant difference between the effectiveness of 3 cannon and 2 cannon load out on Lavochkins..............
Panning shots (at 400) across 38's etc are assured of a kill from the 3 cannon set up where as from the La5 I have yet to obtain any kill from a single burst.
You have to balance this against my present apparantly deplorable gunnery.............
Breaking off having gradually emptied a whole La5 clip at 200 to 400 without apparantly hitting anything is now a regular occurance that has me now studying film to understand why my gunnery is so bad.............
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Cripes you're a hard guy to satisfy Karnak. ;)
.. no Soviet stuff, no P-51s.. don't like P-47s...
..but still an aircraft competitive enough for MA conditions, with interesting characteristics and not in the "top class" so as to give some challenge...
Okay, that'll leave the Spitfires, Bf109s and Fw190D-9 out, too....
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Yeah, it comes down to either the Fw190A series or the C.205.
Or, even if you are not particularly intrigued about the US stuff, how about trying out the F4U-1? It's a very interesting aircraft to fly.
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Try:
Yak 9T
109G6
Ki-61
C.205
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I think the 205 would work pretty well for you, Karnak. You should give it a try for the next week or two.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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I flew the 110 G last night for one sortie and was amazed how many hits I took before my demise. Several hits from AA as well as fighters.
SKurj
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I've heard the P51 called a dweeb plane ... I know I know, fly what you like.
But does that apply just to the D or does it include the B?
I like the B it's not a great climber but its a pretty decent ride all round.
Thoughts?
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Breaking off having gradually emptied a whole La5 clip at 200 to 400 without apparantly hitting anything is now a regular occurance that has me now studying film to understand why my gunnery is so bad.............
It may not be your gunnery. Weren't the SHVAK cannon in the La5 low velocity so they dispersed quickly, requiring close in shots? I think the La7 had higher velocity cannon so you can get hits at D400, but still, the La7 is best in close. If all of this is true, then the modelling of the Lavochkin guns is very good.
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La5 and LA7 uses the same guns if you chose the 2 gun option in the LA7.
The 3 gun option in the LA7 are improved guns, they weight less, not sure about velocity though.
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"But does that apply just to the D or does it include the B? "
It would only apply to the -D. Traditionally in air combat games, "dweeb plane" is more or less synonomous with "popular".
Karnak--
If you're giving up the Mosquito and still want to fly something British, might as well go with the Typhoon. It is not entirely unlike the Mosquito in terms of combat handling which would make the transition easier
J_A_B
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Well, I'll probably either stick with the Mossie (as frusterating as it is now) or switch to the Fw190A-5. The Fw190A-5 seems pretty manuverable and is reasonably fast, has a lot of ammo and gobs of WEP.
Maybe the Ki-84-I-Ko will be released in 2.01.
As to the Mossie's fighter capability in AH1, well, if somebody as bad as I am could get a 31 kill streak in it, it can't be that bad. Bf110s are much poorer in my experience. Maybe AH2 has changed that. Certainly historical reputations would suggest that the Mossie should be the better fighter of the two.
J_A_B,
The Typhoon is crippled by a lack of fuel. I don't think any of the truely short legged aircraft are usable in AH2 as anything other than point defense fighters.
As for the Spit XIV, well, sure La-7s are a bit rarer, but all it takes is one La-7, P-51D, Bf109G-10, Fw190D-9 or Typhoon and the Spit XIV is toast as it is forced to manuver and the horde arrives to tear it down. The Bf109G-10 and Fw190D-9 with their ten minutes of WEP are a particularly large threat.
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Two words.... throttle back.
109E has an endurance of like 2 hours on cruise. Planes don't get more shortlegged than the 109E. My car probably has a bigger gas tank.
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Throttling back is stupid when you have hordes of P-51Ds running around at full MIL, except when they want WEP on. It puts you at an immediate disadvantage.
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Karnak, I'll gladly try the Moss with you in H2H. Take the plane you want so you can see what compares the best to it by still keeping the "big plane feel".
BTW I tried the Moss yesterday in MA, the deep stall is kind of funky.
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Frenchy,
The Mossie stalls really badly now. That is what I ment by worse performance. Other than that it seems to fly exactly the same as in AH1, but whatever you do don't stall it. Makes fighting a lot harder.
I'm not sure wht you mean by "Take the plane you want so you can see what compares the best to it by still keeping the "big plane feel"." though.
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Originally posted by Wilbus
they weight less, not sure about velocity though.
Chemical and kinetic energy are identical.......... just the La7 (45) has a combined ROC of 1.5 times the other La7 and the La5FN.
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Well, I hate to say it, but you can't have it both ways. You want a small plane with good endurance and good performance, you are going to fly the P-51, or maybe the 190D-9. You could probably sneak by with the La-7 depending on how you fly. God knows I still see enough of them.
There aren't any other planes that meet those two requirements, unless you throttle back to save fuel.
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Urchin,
The Fw190A-5's endurance is fine. So are the Bf109G'sand Spitfire Mk IX's.
The La-7 and Typhoon guzzle fuel at a rate that sets them apart from other so called short range aircraft.
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the BF110 is the better fighter MOSS over bf110 is just foolish thinking
the only thing that the MOSS has over it is faster top end speed RANGE and easy guns
the BF110 does not nearly bleed speed as fast and gets to its top end speed way faster then the MOSS and has better climb rate and can turn alot longer then the MOSS can
harder guns but more firepower in terms of those twin 30mms with 4 20mms or 2 20mms if you want a lighter BF110
give the BF110G2 some time and learn the guns and you well see what im talking about
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i have noticed that the nme like the "bigger" plane. i have had many a congo line on my 38. if only i had a countryman there to clear all of them off before i lost my tail. :D
~S~
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simshell,
The Mossie out climbs the Bf110G-2 last time I tested them.
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I'd take 4 Hizookas over 2 Mk 108s and 4 Mg151s anyday. More damage, easier to hit with.
Karnak.. the 190a5 has OK endurance if you can get clear of the enemy while you RTB. 1/4 forward and 1/4 aft tank are like 5-6 minutes at full throttle.
The 109g10 guzzles gas at a positively insane rate, the E4 didn't seem to, but I spent a lot of time throttled back on the E4.
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Originally posted by Urchin
I'd take 4 Hizookas over 2 Mk 108s and 4 Mg151s anyday. More damage, easier to hit with.
Easier to hit with, yes. More damage, no. I speak from experience.
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I dunno, I'd rate the Hizooka at about 2 Mg-151's. Plus with the 4x20mm and the 2x30, you are going to hit with the 4 20mm (in which case the 4 Hizookas would be doing more damage), or the 2 30mm (in which case the Hizookas would be doing at least as much damage).
Plus if you get bored and there are tanks around you can kill them, you can't do that with the Mk108 or the Mg151.