Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: fluffy on June 21, 2004, 09:20:11 AM
-
Along with the icons, a glaringly 'unreal' element in our beloved game/simulator is our ability to fly serenely through our countrymen's aircraft with no worries. This removes a huge impediment from our consideration which real life pilots were forced to contend with. Is it time to add friendly collisions to, say, the CT arena? I understand that this would be too radical a change for the MA, as it would slow down airport traffic considerably. But the CT is lightly populated now. To avoid willful crashes we could use the old ramming formula - where the pilot who impacts someone else with his nose dies, whilst those rammed up the rear are spared. In side to side or top to bottom collisions both parties would share the consequences of the 'accident'. I think this would add a necessary tactical element which had a very big influence on the real air combats of WWII. It would demand more attention and skill from all those flying in the arena, but would that be a bad thing?
-
I'd rather see kill shooter turned off, nothing worse than fraggin myself because some dweeb jumped infront of me.
-
lol - If you take kill shooter off - the rooks will self destuct by cherry picking themselves.
-
I could live with no kill shooter in CT, but in the MA there are certain types of people who might get a kick out of shooting down friendlies - say if they felt someone had stolen their kill, or just out of sheer jerk-headedness. On many occasions I've seen fresh newbies shooting away at friendlies because they don't know any better, or they've had experience in another online sim wherein the 'green' team was a specific country colour. In any case, short of holding courts martial and convicting people to ejection for such behaviour, there are no consequences to the perpetrator for engaging in this sort of spoil-sport activity, and it would infuriate the normal fair-minded player.
But that is an 'and' to the topic of my original question. Friendly collision is a parallel consideration to the kill shooter feature.
-
I say turn the killshotter off. When a guy shoots his own country men i think nothing should happen. Nobody would do it cause they dont want to waste there ammo.
-
Originally posted by jetb123
I say turn the killshotter off. When a guy shoots his own country men i think nothing should happen. Nobody would do it cause they dont want to waste there ammo.
I don't think you live on the same planet I do. :)
-
I would be willing to go out on a limb here ...
You will NEVER see killshooter turned off and friendly collisions turned on on the MA. It would be total mayhem and more problems than HTC would ever want to deal with.
jetb ... I fly a P-38 with 2000 rounds of .50 cal and 250 rounds of 20MM cannon. It would take very few rounds to shoot you out of the sky right after rotation ... I'll bet you would love that ... and still have more than enough rounds to land 8-9 kills.
-
Originally posted by SlapShot
I would be willing to go out on a limb here ...
You will NEVER see killshooter turned off and friendly collisions turned on on the MA. It would be total mayhem and more problems than HTC would ever want to deal with.
I agree SlapShot. But don't you think that an arena like the CT could handle friendly collisions?
Jetb123 - you have more faith in your country men than I do. I have faith in MOST of my countrymen, but not all of them.
-
"But don't you think that an arena like the CT could handle friendly collisions?"
Possibly ... but think of the arguements and trash talking that already exists between enemies that collide. Adding same country arguements to the fray would cause internal strife. Again, more trouble than its worth IMO.
-
Friendly collisons?
Have you noticed you don't have peripheral vision in the game?
Hooligan
-
Originally posted by jetb123
I say turn the killshotter off. When a guy shoots his own country men i think nothing should happen. Nobody would do it cause they dont want to waste there ammo.
LMAO....you wouldn't believe the amount of team killing that would happen,and much of it deliberate.
Won't happen you say?I guess you weren't around for Airwarrior.
-
Originally posted by Waffle BAS
lol - If you take kill shooter off - the rooks will self destuct by cherry picking themselves.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
-
Originally posted by Sox62
[BWon't happen you say?I guess you weren't around for Airwarrior. [/B]
PNG for twenty-four seemed to work very well...PNG for seven days sounds even better :)
-
The point about adding friendly collisions would be that gang-banging would be reduced and people would need to behave more like real pilots in order to survive in areas of heavy traffic (e.g. 'furballs'). I've read some RL dogfight accounts where the narrator speaks of enemy wingmen and flight members circling outside a one-on-one fight for fear of colliding with their leader as he duels. Oh how very different from typical behaviour on-line.
I just think that enabling friendly collisions would appeal to the low-or-no-icon set of realist-buffs.
-
'Friendly collisions' is a switchable Arena Setting, which has been used a few times in some snapshots. The main problem is that as more than one aircraft spawns at a time, they collide with each other as they spawn! The only way around this in Special Events is to turn collisions on after everyone is up - but of course that would be impractical in the MA. :)
-
Originally posted by Red Tail 444
PNG for twenty-four seemed to work very well...PNG for seven days sounds even better :)
lol PNG. Awww the memories. :D
-
Originally posted by SlapShot
I would be willing to go out on a limb here ...
You will NEVER see killshooter turned off and friendly collisions turned on on the MA. It would be total mayhem and more problems than HTC would ever want to deal with.
jetb ... I fly a P-38 with 2000 rounds of .50 cal and 250 rounds of 20MM cannon. It would take very few rounds to shoot you out of the sky right after rotation ... I'll bet you would love that ... and still have more than enough rounds to land 8-9 kills.
I meant that if ya shoot your own country nothing should happen. Like the bullets hit but dont do any damage to you our him.
-
Originally posted by Flossy
'Friendly collisions' is a switchable Arena Setting, which has been used a few times in some snapshots. The main problem is that as more than one aircraft spawns at a time, they collide with each other as they spawn! The only way around this in Special Events is to turn collisions on after everyone is up - but of course that would be impractical in the MA. :)
Good point Flossy - the spawn points!. Perhaps these could be treated in a special way such that collisions do not occur inside hangars.
-
killshooter off and friendly collisions on!
realism all the way!
-
Originally posted by fluffy
Along with the icons, a glaringly 'unreal' element in our beloved game/simulator is our ability to fly serenely through our countrymen's aircraft with no worries. This removes a huge impediment from our consideration which real life pilots were forced to contend with. Is it time to add friendly collisions to, say, the CT arena? I understand that this would be too radical a change for the MA, as it would slow down airport traffic considerably. But the CT is lightly populated now. To avoid willful crashes we could use the old ramming formula - where the pilot who impacts someone else with his nose dies, whilst those rammed up the rear are spared. In side to side or top to bottom collisions both parties would share the consequences of the 'accident'. I think this would add a necessary tactical element which had a very big influence on the real air combats of WWII. It would demand more attention and skill from all those flying in the arena, but would that be a bad thing?
Ever flown in formation with a friendly and seen them warp?
Many friendly collisions would be unavoidable.
eskimo
-
Originally posted by Hooligan
Friendly collisons?
Have you noticed you don't have peripheral vision in the game?
Hooligan
No, Hooli. I've found that a 2D monitor gives me the exact same visual cues and ability to easily move my head around or glance at something that I get in the cockpit! It's amazing!
-
Flossy hit the same point I immediately thought of: the spawn points at the airfields would become killing fields. People that spawn at the same time would both die, through no fault of their own, and landing planes would die if someone spawned at touchdown, again through no fault of their own. Now if you wanted to add an ATC and ground controller....
J/K :D
-
Originally posted by jetb123
I meant that if ya shoot your own country nothing should happen. Like the bullets hit but dont do any damage to you our him.
jetb ... you need to do a search on this topic ... killshooter ... collisions.
You will see that this topic has been discussed from every imaginable angle with as many ideas on how to make it work.
It won't happen ... simple as that ... forget about it.
-
Originally posted by eskimo2
Ever flown in formation with a friendly and seen them warp?
Many friendly collisions would be unavoidable.
eskimo
This is a very good point Eskimo, and a valid argument on the con side. I have seen this phenomenon many times, of course, but with proper separation, such as would be strived for in real life, warping aircraft should 'slid' in and out of formation without hitting anyone. I can't remember actually ever hitting a warping plane, so I feel this might be a low probability event. It would inevitably happen to someone though.
Assuming that spawn points could be sorted by some special rules, airport traffic management would simply require some attention from all pilots - radio comms would become necessary - just as in the real world - such as "Twang requesting (yet another) emergency landing at A8 - I'm coming in damaged, please clear runway" etc. This might be followed by some short negotiation with, say a buff just initiating takeoff. Anyway, uncontrolled airports seem to work with the cooperation of real world pilots.
-
As far as kill shooter goes I think the way it is works best, we all know what would happen if it were turned off..... As for collisons, I was just thinking the same thing the other day when I had about 6 knits chasing me, when I looked back they were flying in and out of each other like crazy, no granted I should probably work on not getting in that situation first but I couldnt help thinking how nice it would be if I could just get them to run into each other, but I also dont think friendly collisons would be practical, first of all the lack of peripheral vision would be a big issue, granted you can move your head but still you do not have the same visual ability when playing on a 2D monitor and it would be very difficult to attempt to keep an eye on the con in front as well as checking all other angles for close friendlies. I understand the point that friendly collisions would require people to maintain distance like it actuall combat, but a point I try to stress as much as possible is that this is not real life, this is just a game that people want to be able to come home from work and play to relieve some stress, I love games that try to be as realistic as possible but I belive HTC has done an amazing job of bringing a combination of realisim and playability to Aces High.
-
I think (not sure) that as it stood in AH1, collisions could be turned on for aircraft on the ground, in the air or both. is this correct?
Air collisions only would solve the spawn and taxi problem.
eskimo
-
hahaha I just read eskimos signature, one of the best scenes in a movie ever.
-
If I can't jump in front of countrymen and laugh as they turn themselves into flaming wrecks then I'll have nothing else with which to amuse myself with on those slow nights when I can't seem to kill anything else.
-
Originally posted by jetb123
I say turn the killshotter off. When a guy shoots his own country men i think nothing should happen. Nobody would do it cause they dont want to waste there ammo.
We'd all be killing our own countrymen left and right. It would be fun for a week or so.:)
-
I wonder if code could be written to enable friendly collisions everywhere except on the spawn points?
Killshooter off (maybe PNG) and friendly collisions on!!!
Originally posted by Flossy
'Friendly collisions' is a switchable Arena Setting, which has been used a few times in some snapshots. The main problem is that as more than one aircraft spawns at a time, they collide with each other as they spawn! The only way around this in Special Events is to turn collisions on after everyone is up - but of course that would be impractical in the MA. :)
-
Originally posted by RTStuka
As far as kill shooter goes I think the way it is works best, we all know what would happen if it were turned off..... As for collisons, I was just thinking the same thing the other day when I had about 6 knits chasing me, when I looked back they were flying in and out of each other like crazy, no granted I should probably work on not getting in that situation first but I couldnt help thinking how nice it would be if I could just get them to run into each other, but I also dont think friendly collisons would be practical, first of all the lack of peripheral vision would be a big issue, granted you can move your head but still you do not have the same visual ability when playing on a 2D monitor and it would be very difficult to attempt to keep an eye on the con in front as well as checking all other angles for close friendlies. High.
RTStuka, I agree that the MA should be reserved as the 'fun' arena (although some take it very seriously, never the less), and that is why I suggest the CT as an appropriate venue to introduce the friendly collision enhancement. As to peripheral vision - we all strive for good situational awareness now - who is getting into firing position on me , etc. - so now we also pay attention to which friendlies are on a collision course with us. The fun of the fight is tracking the 3d 'world' around us as we fly and fight. The view on the monitor is modified, I believe, to give us a wide view to compensate for the 2D monitor effect, unless I am mistaken. This is why I much prefer the view system of AH to a certain stand-alone WWII combat flight sim which is currently very popular, but which I find frustrating to see in.
-
Originally posted by RTStuka
As far as kill shooter goes I think the way it is works best, we all know what would happen if it were turned off..... As for collisons, I was just thinking the same thing the other day when I had about 6 knits chasing me, .
I'm thinking I wish I was 300 yards behind that cloud of 6 knits with my P38 with full magazine.
Spray and Yay!
:lol
-
DO NOT REMOVE KILLSHOOTER!
Uh, hell no.
From the newbies to the spies, there would then be a field day of idiots shooting you down. Troops shot down by snakey country switchers, kids too lazy to fly to an enemy base would delight in taking your plane out. Yes people would do it, more often thatn you think. Kill shooter is the the only thing that keeps this at bay.
-
friendly collisions?
how would we take off? we have no tower to control who goes when. we would collide on the runway and die before getting in the air.
if there was a delay for spacing takeoff's you know somone would hit the "go" button and be "inline, then go afk liek many many do.
but he might have forgotten to put his throttle to full, and just sit on the spawnpoint. hence killing everyone who spawns after him, until he blows up also, or comes back from afk.
how would you like to lose a perk ride like that, or even get a death on your score from some newbie like that?
in the SEA events the turn on friendly collision sometimes AFTER all are airborne (like 10 min into the frame) and announce it over MOD text.
in the MA and CT there is no control over who takes off when so there is no way to turn it "on" and "off".
i dont think anyone would like to play in the MA if they were "controlled" when they could take off.
-
Originally posted by jetb123
I say turn the killshotter off. When a guy shoots his own country men i think nothing should happen. Nobody would do it cause they dont want to waste there ammo.
No, what you end up with is some jerks jumping sides and intentionaly shooting down friendlies so as to give the other side an unfair advantage. orrr just to be a butthole.
Went though this in AW and I for one have no desire to deal with it again.
Leave killshooter alone. Instead, spray and pray less and use better SA for both enemy aircraft and your own.
In the last year I've suffered killshooter exactly twice.
coulda beena third tiem the other day when a friendly A20 flew in front of my guns but I saw him just before he entered my bullet stream and let go of the trigger.
Had I gotten a killshhoter it would have been my own fault as 95% of killshooters are the fault of the person shooting.
I heard his engines but ignored them in my haste for the kill.
Been my observation that 95% of all killshooters would be easily avoided if people would just pay attention to more then just whats in front of them. And used better ammo discipline
-
The only way to turn off friendly collisons is to have an air traffic controller at each base. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to take off or land.
If you can find enough people who want to air traffic control, you might have some validity to asking for friendly collisions.
Personally I say leave them off.
Could you imagine someone accusing you of kill stealing or getting PO'd at you? The all he has to do it ram you as a friendly.
I've alrealy had someone try to deliberately cause me kill shooter myself. He accused me of kill stealing. I tried to explain to him that I got all my kills that way, but he just wouldn't listen. Pitifull really, but he kept buzzing me. I am sure if he could have rammed me he would have.
The amount of bad blood friendly collisions would cause in the arena would be very bad.
The game plays well, leave it alone.
AKFokerFoder+
-
Originally posted by Waffle BAS
lol - If you take kill shooter off - the rooks will self destuct by cherry picking themselves.
LMFAO!
-
Originally posted by eskimo2
I think (not sure) that as it stood in AH1, collisions could be turned on for aircraft on the ground, in the air or both. is this correct?
No there is (was) only one setting - On or Off - regardless of whether on the ground or in the air. :)
-
Killshooter off? :D Heehee just think about that a bit would ya? How many times a week do you start rolling down the runway and see tracers going by your cockpit from directly behind you? It`s always a hoot to go to rear view when you see this and watch the latest, trigger happy noob turn himself and plane into a fiery, smoldering wreck. The other way around it prolly wouldn`t get much of a chuckle after the 2nd or 3rd time .
-
Sorry flossy, I highly respect your opinion in most things.
However until you've painstakeingly gotten 32 bombers off the ground, one at a time, marshalled into a formation & turned for target. Just to see a tail end charlie come through the formation & ram the back of your plane.
To see yourself falling in pieces shrieking in anger. Until you've lived through that heartache, pain & dispair. You don't realise how much friendly collisions changes things.
Even if you could solve the problems of taxi, takeoff & landing.
Every time someone died because some other idiot on HIS side dove in on the same con. You'd hear such a screeching & wailing that the heavens would fall. The gods would be no more, and AH would cease to exist.
Trust me, you don't want this.
As long as we have net lag, we have the need for friendly collisions enabled.
-
Originally posted by mechanic
killshooter off and friendly collisions on!
realism all the way!
wnd you will stay the last HTC client with active account:cool:
-
Originally posted by Ghosth
Sorry flossy, I highly respect your opinion in most things.
However until you've painstakeingly gotten 32 bombers off the ground, one at a time, marshalled into a formation & turned for target. Just to see a tail end charlie come through the formation & ram the back of your plane.
Um..... I never said I wanted friendly collisions, and was merely saying what options are available in Setup. I know only too well the problems having them on can cause. I agree with you completely - especially in light of my own inability to fly in close formation! :)
-
My apoligies flossy. Misread that somehow.
Should have been addressed to fluffy.
Anyway, friendly collisions on + more than 10 in the arena = chaos.
-
NP Ghosth..... think I've learnt a few things in the last 2.5 years since joining the CM team. Friendly collisions causing problems is one of them. ;)
-
O.K. on the upside got a quick kill last night (sort of). I guess he was a newbie, but heard a whump on the runway right behind me as I spawned and rolled, looked back just in time to see newbie self destruct from shooting me:rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by twitchy
DO NOT REMOVE KILLSHOOTER!
Troops shot down by snakey country switchers
D'oh!!! Never mind
-
Originally posted by sling322
News flash!!! Killshooter does not affect being able to shoot troops. Friendlies already have the ability to kill troops.
Dork, they took that out of the game awhile ago.
-
Originally posted by Mathman
Dork, they took that out of the game awhile ago.
Really?!? That sucks. We had some of our most fun times "accidentally" shooting a troop or 2 to ensure a Bastard capture.
-
lol when did they change that?
Remember those whines a long while back about
"HT theres a troop bug I released my troops and didnt get a capture...."
:)
I remember listening on range channel
"Half my troops just disappeared"...
"WTF... Why didnt I get that capture"...
"This buggy game is pissing me off"...
All the while I watch a squaddies m3 racing in with his troops firng from the 50 cal and laughing his arse off...
I dunno whats funnier the 'ole 100 check 6 calls or the troop killing...
-
Originally posted by sling322
Really?!? That sucks. We had some of our most fun times "accidentally" shooting a troop or 2 to ensure a Bastard capture.
Yeah, I think that was why Creamo quit. I still try from time to time hoping that some setting wasn't turned on by mistake. However, no go, you can't kill them.
-
No, Hooli. I've found that a 2D monitor gives me the exact same visual cues and ability to easily move my head around or glance at something that I get in the cockpit! It's amazing!
If you truly belive this then you really need to turn off the computer and get out some more...!
:aok
-
hey i know!
lets make the game so realistic that we have piss tubes attatched to our computer chairs and parachutes straped to our backs enable to play (ya know to give it that authentic feel)
-
Originally posted by Red Tail 444
PNG for twenty-four seemed to work very well...PNG for seven days sounds even better :)
Yes i agree on the PNG whole heartedly.
I was a very good method of dealing with team killing WITHOUT making the innocent suffer.
This is by far the best method of dealing with Sloppy Careless pilots i have seen in flight sims. Keeps fellow countrymen from arguing about those instances where the careless pilot zooms right by his team mate and right in front of his blazing guns!
Think of it as a Peace making Tool. BTW anyone noticed the heated comments and arguments that breakout on range channel when these thing happen? Along with Kill Stealling of course. I see where the PNG approach would even curtail the so called "Kill Steals"
Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please .
PNG for AH2. Ill even ask nicely. Please
-
Originally posted by 68DevilM
hey i know!
lets make the game so realistic that we have piss tubes attatched to our computer chairs and parachutes straped to our backs enable to play (ya know to give it that authentic feel)
Doesnt everybody already have these things?
Little advise here...Be sure to rinse the Piss tube at least every 3 days. :D
-
Not changing killshoorter gents, the resones have been discussed many times before.
-
Yeah we know this. Although im not up to par on exactly why HTC wont change killshooter or trade it for a PNG system. We like to dream the impossible dream from time to time. But it is as it is. And everytime we ping our own plane and in some cases killshoot our selves with a few pings from a cannon gun, some players shall go on calling fellow countrymen prettythang Holes and Stupid bastages and YES the F-Bomb has become prevalent in recent months on range channel as well. :mad:. (Another reason for a perma squelch on range) Makes for a wonderfull and pleasant game experience though.
HT I understand that you were a part of AW development team in some capacity. And of course we know AW used the PNG to control freindly fire. Why isnt the PNG as good an option as Killshooter.
Good day. :)